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The weakest series?

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Ent was weakest (haha! I can now say was! because it is cancelled! haha!)

 

344108[/snapback]

By that standard TOS would be the weakest since it only lasted 3 seasons and then was canceled.

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You misunderstand, I refer not to the length of the series I refer to my use of the qualifer "was" I find the series to be weak of character, story, and the technological blunders apalled me (they had view screens for everything yet the NC-1701 had to use the old time movie blinders?)

 

I can understand that the show would fail horribly if they had decided to 60-ize the tech they used on the show but to me thats just further proof they shouldn't be trying to Pre-empt The Kirk.

 

at any rate, my laughter was evoked from the cancellation of the series and the joy I find therein, not to offend of course.

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ENT is by far the weakest series.

 

Comparisons to TOS are not valid.

 

TOS was cancelled in an entirely different era. The executives at the time didn't know what to do with the show. It was new, it was weird, it was odd, it was unusual. Science-fiction was nowhere near as common back then as it is now, and also TOS didn't have nearly forty years of a successful lucrative franchise behind it. The fact that TOS eventually led to a resurrection of the franchise when it was discovered in syndication years later indicate that TOS simply came along initially at the wrong time.

 

That makes ENT's failure far worse IMO. ENT failed even in spite of the franchise's long success (although it had been in decline before ENT began) and ENT simply failed to hold onto the large number of viewers it attracted. Even the cast admit that. It's possible it may go the same way and may find legions of fans in syndication, but I doubt it very much.

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You misunderstand, I refer not to the length of the series I refer to my use of the qualifer "was"  I find the series to be weak of character, story, and the technological blunders apalled me (they had view screens for everything yet the NC-1701 had to use the old time movie blinders?)

 

I can understand that the show would fail horribly if they had decided to 60-ize the tech they used on the show but to me thats just further proof they shouldn't be trying to Pre-empt The Kirk.

 

at any rate, my laughter was evoked from the cancellation of the series and the joy I find therein, not to offend of course.

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You must also realize that Voyager was within an inch of it's life from being canceled also. The only thing that saved it was that UPN didn't want to have the humilation of having it's flagship show canceled. Don't get me wrong, I liked a lot of things with Voyager but in terms of character content and originality it is, in my opinion the weakest of any of the series. With Enterprise they didn't even try to keep it going, they cooked the books to make it appear that ratings were it's demise.

 

I will hold the first season of Enterprise against any of the other 3 "modern" series and Enterprise will hold it's ground against them all. In fact it would blow both TNG and Voyager away.

 

Voyager was by far the weakest of any of the "live action" series. Enterprise just came at a time when the "fan base" had shallow vision.

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LOL!!! :) :)

 

Conspiracy theories and blaming fans aside, I think ENT was the weakest show.

 

Although VOY fans, don't be too proud, because your show was only the slightest step up from ENT in terms of quality.

 

Though VBG is right in one regard at least, if VOY wasn't the flagship show of UPN it would have been doomed fairly early on.

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I would start defending my beloved Voyager to the two of you, but now is neither the time nor place. :) :)

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I liked Voyager almost as much as TOS. I guess it was b/c it finally gave a woman a chance to run the show.

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Any weakness in Voyager I think has to placed where it belongs: Rick Berman. Rick didn't let the writers do their jobs because he was more concerned with milking the franchise for product (more and more episodes) then with quality. I would have been happy with only two seasons of Voyager if they'd been as good as the first two seasons of ST:TOS.

 

Simple as that...

 

Instead we got 7 seasons of mostly bland episodes and lots of Seven in her leotard acting cryptic.

 

As it stands I've yet to see a single episode of Voyager (and I own all 7 seasons) that's as good as a single episode of Andromeda or the new Battlestar Galactica.

 

Thanks, Rick. Thanks for nothing...

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I know this may be an ignorant way to quantify things but I rate shows based on how much I like them and how much they appeal to me.

 

On my personal scale the series go in this order

 

Voyager

TNG

TOS

DS9

ENT

 

With enterprise I NEVER liked captain Archer, looking at his face made me angry... He was a very weak captain, a whiny guy.

 

I know every captain would tell you that they don't enjoy fighting but you always see them come out smiling at a job well done and congratulating the crew, and if someone is too blame they take the rap.

 

Archer on the other hand was never smiling, always whiny, and delagated his own blame like a tray of brownies, this guy seriously pissed me off.

 

I could have been a better captain than him... Xindi you say? give a shoulder mounted rocket launcher and a shuttle pod, I'll kick their faces in until they learn not to mess with earth!!!

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I havent seen all the season yet but I have 3 season and I love them all the weakest series no way I think enterprise was the weakest but I'm a star trek fan I will watch them all and women would NOT ruin a show thank you very much LOL.

 

Brian

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I definitely say no, it isn't the weakest series. DS9 is the only Trek series I've had trouble getting into. I tried when it originally aired but gave up because I found it boring. From my perspective, I would consider DS9 the weakest series.

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DS9 is the only Trek series I've had trouble getting into. I tried when it originally aired but gave up because I found it boring. From my perspective, I would consider DS9 the weakest series.

 

:tear::eek::laugh::bow::bow:

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I could have been a better captain than him... Xindi you say? give a shoulder mounted rocket launcher and a shuttle pod, I'll kick their faces in until they learn not to mess with earth!!!

345255[/snapback]

 

I really like that.... Come to think of it, mebbe I'll qualify too.

 

Its really hard to tell which is the weakest series. Its the same as asking which is your least favourite. I can't really decide but it certainly won't be TOS or TNG. I can't say much for DS9 since I've only seen some episodes - until I get my hands on more DVDs but I pretty am happy with it so far.

 

In addition, the question asked was too general. If its about which was the least favourite, then its easy to answer. I'd choose ENT. However, I begin to wonder, what do we mean by weakest? From which angle. Weakest at what point? In term on special effects, I won't say ENT was weakest. In terms of story line? Ratings? There's a lot to debate there.

 

My favourite is still TOS although I never had the previledge to watch them all. Followed closely by TNG.

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I agree with those who found strengths and weaknesses in all the series. In each series I found characters that drew my interest. I entered into whatever imperfect world the writers created, and enjoyed that vision of the future, with some reservations.

 

My favorite series was TOS. Second is DS9, for showing us that the depth of the human psyche was not lost once taken into space. And TNG, VOY, and ENT still tie for great scifi, in my book.

 

I have gotten something to think about and cherish from each of the series. Voyager was not a weak series, in my opinion.

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ENT was the weakest, but VOY was only slightly better.

 

The main reason for VOY's weakness (aside from the lack of Moore, Piller and Behr) is that it never lived up to the concept. It SHOULD have shown a crew slowly losing their Starfleet ideals and becoming mercenaries and survivalists like the Maquis. Instead we got bland characters with their pristine ship week after week.

 

Like Ronald Moore said, everything looked far too comfortable on VOY. They had no issues with saving energy, the ship never looked scarred or damaged, they had about a million shuttles, they seldom ran out of anything. A show based on a crew trying to survive by trading and stealing would have been more interesting. A dark tone. By the time they got home they wouldn't be recognisable to the rest of Starfleet because they had changed so much. Also, this idea of an "uneasy" alliance between Starfleet and Maquis should have been maintained all the way through the series. With the crew (and cast) divided into two camps of loyalty.

 

This is what the characters should have been like:

 

CO: Janeway = Starts off being idealistic but seven years of trying to survive makes her scrap most of her Federation and Starfleet principles. She has to struggle with her own morality and weigh that up against the welfare of her crew. Kate Mulgrew would have played this character, as she actually did.

 

EXO: Chakotay = Played by a better actor. He will be the mercenary. The Maquis who will do anything to get back to the Alpha Quadrant. The main protagonist. He is a subtle influence on the captain and plays the menacing mercenary foil to Janeway's idealism. Rather than the "peaceful" Native American culture he had (with his boring spirit guides) his culture should have been more violent and warrior-like, similar to the Huron. Robert Beltran would not have played this character.

 

CONN: Tom Paris. His character was fine. They should have played up his dodgy past more than they actually did. He has to redeem himself for some past wrong-doing which should have been MAJOR. He would be the rogue on board. A wiseass who constantly broke rules whenever he felt like it but would eventually become more responsible. He would be loyal to the captain even though he would cause constant trouble for her. Robert McNeill would have played this character like he actually did.

 

Chief Engineer: A Maquis female. Possibly a former lover of Chakotay which provides him with an ally who isn't very loyal to Janeway. She would have an unconventional way of dealing with technical problems, which brings her into conflict with the by-the-book engineers. This character should not have been B'Elanna Torres because the Human/Klingon hybrid character had been done before with Worf. Roxann Dawson would not have played this character.

 

CMO: The Holo-Doctor. Nothing would be changed. As he actually did, Robert Picardo would have played the EMH.

 

Tactical Chief: A Vulcan. Not Tuvok though. A better actor would be selected. This character would start as the traditional cold logical Vulcan, but as time goes by we would have seen her become more emotional and aggressive, essentially becoming the "passionate fiery Vulcan" that Sybok was supposed to be. She would be the main ally of the captain and her confidant. She would be the exposition character who explains things for the viewers and moves the plot along. Essentially fulfilling the role Seven played. In fact, Jeri Ryan would have been a good choice for this role, now that I think about it.

 

Now, you may be saying "But a sexy Vulcan sounds just like T'Pol". Well, I can see why you would think that, but this sexy Vulcan would have actually had a well-written character. And as for the sexiness, well as security chief, she would naturally need to be in top physical condition.

 

OPS: This position would actually be "SCIENCES" rather than OPS. A character similar to Harry Kim (but again a better actor) would start the series. Young and idealistic. Perhaps a great admirer of Janeway who he regards as a mother figure. Maybe he could have been the son of another Captain who Janeway was close to, so she feels the responsibility to look after him. He would basically be "the viewer" in the whole series. We would see things virtually as he does. Trying to cope with extraordinary circumstances. How he would react in isolation is how we would react. Unfortunately as the series went on, he too would become more mercenary in nature as his idealism faded in the harsh environment of the Delta Quadrant. Garrett Wang would not have played this character.

 

Neelix would be unnecessary since the Holo-Doctor would provide the comic relief (with a lot of sarcasm) so Neelix thankfully would not appear.

 

Kes and Seven would not appear either.

Edited by HRH The KING

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Well i am a woman of many opinions.

 

1st : I was introduced to trek by my darling father at a VERY young age, now my old man is very much so an TOS TNG fan so i am biased this way.

 

2nd : My mother is NOT a Trekkie (AT ALL) but, she loves Deep Space Nine. Again this means Bias

 

3rd : My partner is a TNG and ENT fan and will almost never allow any other series to be played in his holy presence.

 

4th : In this discussion of the weakest series we seemed to have missplaced the animated series which was by far the worst.

 

So in conclusion I am very biased but, unfortunately.....

 

 

ITS TIME TO GO...... The Animated Series

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Tactical Chief: A Vulcan. Not Tuvok though. A better actor would be selected. This character would start as the traditional cold logical Vulcan, but as time goes by we would have seen her become more emotional and aggressive, essentially becoming the "passionate fiery Vulcan" that Sybok was supposed to be. She would be the main ally of the captain and her confidant. She would be the exposition character who explains things for the viewers and moves the plot along. Essentially fulfilling the role Seven played. In fact, Jeri Ryan would have been a good choice for this role, now that I think about it.

 

Sounds very much like T'Pol! But I liked T'Pol so that would be fine with me, a much more complex character than 7 of 9, B'Elanna or Kes.

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Well at first I thought that character would be best served by being male.

 

But that would mean only two female characters are in the cast.

 

So I went with the female option, but it could have worked for a male too.

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I completely agree with you. I think it was a great idea to watch a Vulcan begin to let slip her emotions, one of the best aspects of T'Pol's character in my opinion.

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Personally I didn't like T'Pol.

 

But in the context of VOY, we would have seen the icy, logical surface begin to crack.

 

It would have been an exploration of whether Vulcan logic and Federation morals work together in the hostile environment of the Delta Quadrant. That would have been the foundation of this Vulcan character.

 

One of the basic themes could have been: Is it logical to stick to rules which have been created in a civilised part of the galaxy, when we are marooned in a place where civilisation and rules don't exist?

 

Or rather where what WE consider "civilised" is different to what is considered civilised in the Delta Quadrant.

 

VOY should have been the darkest of all the series IMO. A real analysis of human nature in extreme circumstances. So many interesting areas could have been explored. The conclusion from VOY that the final episode should have explored is that the crew that vanished seven years ago were not the same people that came back. They had been through far too much and had changed.

Edited by HRH The KING

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I like Voyager the way it was.

 

Sure, it could have been all dark and gritty but then to me it wouldn't have seemed like Star Trek anymore. Star Trek is about an idealistic vision of the human future and Voyager was probably the greatest test of that vision.

 

Here is a crew lost, alone, likely to die without ever seeing home again. It would have been far too easy to abandon Starfleet's principles (which, I may point out that if they had been so willing to abandon them, they would never have been stranded in the first place since they would have used the array right away). Instead, this crew sticks to their principles and they get HOME. Equinox abandons them and 5 of 78 crewmen survive (roughly 6% of her crew). Voyager gets home with roughly 2/3 of what they started with.

 

Voyager touched on some of the survival issues but quite frankly with a replicator, there isn't a whole lot to worry about (sure they could have showed the construction of new shuttles and what not, or searching for an energy source). Most Starfleet vessels are designed for long tours of duty and Voyager was friendly which meant they could get help (much like stopping at a Starbase) without expending resources and killing people (and making even more enemies who would have destroyed the ship before they even saw the Borg).

 

Voyager was proof that Starfleet's principles and can stand up to whatever the galaxy throws at them.

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Sure, it could have been all dark and gritty but then to me it wouldn't have seemed like Star Trek anymore. Star Trek is about an idealistic vision of the human future and Voyager was probably the greatest test of that vision.

 

It really depends on what kind of vision one prefers. This will be the great divide in the fanbase, between those who want the Utopian kind of vision, and those who prefer the darker elements. On one hand, the Utopianism CAN work, because you can contrast the darker elements against it. The problem comes from making too many races in Star Trek utopian.

 

It simply leads to blandness which was VOY's biggest problem. Personally I like the darker more conflicted vision of Star Trek for the sake of drama. What they COULD have done is show Starfleet idealism conflicting with the mercenary idea, but that seemed to die in the first episode where the Maquis got into their Starfleet uniforms and that was it. The whole drama of having two seperate crews and values ended right there.

 

Here is a crew lost, alone, likely to die without ever seeing home again. It would have been far too easy to abandon Starfleet's principles (which, I may point out that if they had been so willing to abandon them, they would never have been stranded in the first place since they would have used the array right away).

 

That itself could have been used as the focal point for the hostility between the two sides. The Maquis faction should have demanded they use the Array, but Starfleet values force Janeway to destroy it. But again it never happened. Janeway practically said "We'll destroy the Array" and Chakotay said "OK". It should have been written as a fierce debate which the Maquis faction never forgave her for. Also some dissent among the Starfleet crewmembers would be made them more interesting too.

 

Instead, this crew sticks to their principles and they get HOME. Equinox abandons them and 5 of 78 crewmen survive (roughly 6% of her crew). Voyager gets home with roughly 2/3 of what they started with.

 

To be honest, IMO watching the struggles of the Equinox crew would have been more interesting. To see a real fight for survival. Captain Ransom and his crew were infinately more complex and interesting than Janeway and her crew (aside from the Holo-Doc). The fact that most of Voyager's crew survived is another issue. Most of the crew should have died throughout the seven years. So when Janeway got the ship home, her "victory" would be bitter, because so many people didn't get home.

 

Voyager touched on some of the survival issues but quite frankly with a replicator, there isn't a whole lot to worry about (sure they could have showed the construction of new shuttles and what not, or searching for an energy source).

 

Which again took away drama from the show.

 

Tuvok: "Captain, we are running low on food".

 

Janeway: "It's OK, we can use the replicator and it's unlimited energy supply".

 

It becomes bland and stale. There's no danger, no drama, no desperation. Which virtually rendered the fact they were marooned in the DQ pointless. They could have been in the AQ and it wouldn't have made much difference. The fact they didn't worry about anything WAS part of the problem.

 

 

Most Starfleet vessels are designed for long tours of duty and Voyager was friendly which meant they could get help (much like stopping at a Starbase) without expending resources and killing people (and making even more enemies who would have destroyed the ship before they even saw the Borg).

 

But a ship like VOY was supposed to be small and vunerable. That was the whole reason it was designed the way it was. So that they would constantly be outmatched and outgunned. Which increases drama. I never believed they would be in any kind of difficulty because this would always happen:

 

Paris: "Captain, our shields are losing power and our warp field is collapsing".

 

Janeway: "Prepare a final spread of torpedoes".

 

Tuvok: "It's no use, their shields are holding".

 

Torres: "Captain, we could re-route the phase inducers through EPS manifold and vent the reverse thrusters through the technobabble and the high gain antenna into the deflector shield to boost our phaser power by eight-hundred percent"

 

Janeway: "Will that be enough power?"

 

Torres: "I think so Captain".

 

HRH The King: "Will it cover this lazy plot-hole?"

 

Torres: "It's worth a shot".

 

It was the same old same old week after week.

 

Voyager was proof that Starfleet's principles and can stand up to whatever the galaxy throws at them.

 

Which IMO severely damaged the show. It could have been so much more.

 

I think VOY (with some exceptions) is always going to be the show that produces the "Meh" response from the fans. No one really loves it. But no one really hates it. It's just apathy.

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I definitely say no, it isn't the weakest series. DS9 is the only Trek series I've had trouble getting into. I tried when it originally aired but gave up because I found it boring. From my perspective, I would consider DS9 the weakest series.

345279[/snapback]

How many have you watched? Do you have the DVD's?

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I echo Jack's statements. I personally prefer the lighter version of Trek. I enjoy dark episodes when they are interesting and well-written --I enjoy DS9 very much-- but I'm more a fan of that "utopian vision" of the future, even for a ship thousands of light years from home.

 

I loved that holding to StarFleet ideals was paramount to Janeway and that it helped her to get home. I would be the same way. Should they have been tested more? Should there have been more moral conflict? Probably. However, if Voyager had behaved as the Equinox, why would you even want to go home anymore? You're just going to end up in a penal colony for years on end for breaking every code in the book. I'd rather stick to my integrity and ideals and see where they take me.

 

Agreed on the fact that Voyager was far too often a "super-ship". I don't care if 7 did provide them with tactical info on the Borg. Voy took on those cubes FAR too easily inthe few episodes where the Borg are encountered. (And a tactical cube? How unnecessary...).

 

Some weak script-writing aside, it was the Starfleet-principles-first/ getting-home-second aspect of the show that I enjoyed so much. Dark is good, but I'd rather see integrity rewarded, or even punished if necessary. Moral ambiguity bugs me to no end...

 

Just personal taste, I guess.

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However, if Voyager had behaved as the Equinox, why would you even want to go home anymore? You're just going to end up in a penal colony for years on end for breaking every code in the book. I'd rather stick to my integrity and ideals and see where they take me.

 

Well you see, that's another issue that could have been addressed in the final episode.

 

Would Starfleet throw them in prison for violating their code?

 

Or would they feel obligated to celebrate them as heroes, despite the fact that the truth may be different?

 

Perhaps it would have been decided to cover up the truth and instead tell the people of the Federation that they stuck to their moral principles in the face of such adversity. Essentially selling propaganda to the people.

 

Would the crew be able to pick up the pieces of their lives and go back to normal? Or would they be forever changed? Would their own conscience's haunt them?

 

Now.....THAT would have been the VOY for me. :lol:

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Voyager is the weakest series.

 

If any other series should have been cancelled it shoud have been Voyager :clap: not Enterprise

Edited by trekmachine

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Now I've seen enough of Voyager to take it off of the weakest series list. Now I've seen more of it than TOS and Enterprise combined. My favorites list has been revised:

 

DS9

TNG

VOY

ENT

TOS

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Voyager the weakest series? No, I don' think so. Not in the first three seasons when the series had some really good episodes. It became weaker in seasons 4-7 when it was turned into The Seven Of nine Show but it still beats Enterprise without problem.

 

When Voyager was at its best, in seasons 1-3 it was as good as TNG and better than DS9 and TOS. Voyager had the best main characters, the best premise of any Star Trek series and good episodes overall, especially in season 2.

 

Voyager's problems were a lot of continuity errors, bad writing (in the later seasons) plus the fact that it didn't really live up to it's premise. But still, it's a very good series.

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