Legal challenge to primate centre

[ARMS 0]

click here to read about it

[cassidy 0]

That's shocking! What's the point in researching diseases when the animals are going to die? It's using a life to save a life. I am especially opposed to animal testing cos I'm a vegetarian and would rather die before I intentionally killed an animal.

Edited January 6, 2004 by cassidy

[ARMS 0]

I agree, but what if they had a virus, is it then wrong?

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

That's shocking! What's the point in researching diseases when the animals are going to die? It's using a life to save a life. I am especially opposed to animal testing cos I'm a vegetarian and would rather die before I intentionally killed an animal.

Um... The point is to prevent diseases. It's using animal lives to save both human & animal lives. I have the otmost respect for animals, but I don't have a problem with experrimenting on them, as long as they don't suffer.

[Klingonmike 0]

That's shocking! What's the point in researching diseases when the animals are going to die? It's using a life to save a life. I am especially opposed to animal testing cos I'm a vegetarian and would rather die before I intentionally killed an animal.

Um... The point is to prevent diseases. It's using animal lives to save both human & animal lives. I have the otmost respect for animals, but I don't have a problem with experrimenting on them, as long as they don't suffer.

Well the problem is most of the animals do suffer. And they are not always used to help cure a disease, some are used to test perfumes and such.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Well the problem is most of the animals do suffer. And they are not always used to help cure a disease, some are used to test perfumes and such.

I don't think they do that anymore. Most of the make up products I see anymore (for the last several years) are labeled as non-animal testing.

 

Which highlights one of the benefits of cloning.....grow some human skin tissue and you can test makeup without worries

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Which highlights one of the benefits of cloning.....grow some human skin tissue and you can test makeup without worries

I'd think a better use of resources would be to graft cloned skin on burn victims, instead of being used for makeup tests.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Which highlights one of the benefits of cloning.....grow some human skin tissue and you can test makeup without worries

I'd think a better use of resources would be to graft cloned skin on burn victims, instead of being used for makeup tests.

What kind of response is that? I don't know there is any "law" proscribed some place that you can only have one use. In fact in my post I said "one use" not "only use". If people didn't engage in business to make money most of us wouldn't have jobs to pay rent and eat?

Edited January 7, 2004 by TheUnicornHunter

[ARMS 0]

Which highlights one of the benefits of cloning.....grow some human skin tissue and you can test makeup without worries

I'd think a better use of resources would be to graft cloned skin on burn victims, instead of being used for makeup tests.

What kind of response is that? I don't know there is any "law" proscribed some place that you can only have one use. In fact in my post I said "one use" not "only use". If people didn't engage in business to make money most of us wouldn't have jobs to pay rent and eat?

I like both ideas, they both benefit, with little breach of ethics.

[ensign_beedrill 0]

That's all good and well, testing on animals to make treatments for diseases, I don't mind that. What I don't understand is "animal rights." Where do animals have rights? Is there anything in the Constitution about animals having rights? And what rights are these? Of course, everything has a right to live, but I don't see animal rights people complaining each time I swat a fly. That fly is an animal, with as much right to live as everything else. And, in fact, if these monkeys die as a result of testing for cures to diseases, that is a much better death than the one I just gave the fly. The monkey died to better medicine. The fly died because I think flies are gross.

 

What really makes me mad is that I hear no news of animal rights people protesting frog dissection in schools. The poor frogs! Let's say that every three students in a class get one frog. There are twenty seven people in the class. That's nine frogs! Now... how many classes are there in the world that dissect frogs? Thousands! Even if only a thousand classes dissect frogs, that's 9,000 frogs! 9,000 frogs a year, folks, and more, because I'm sure there are more than a thousand classes dissecting frogs. In five years, that's over 45,000 frogs! For what? If students must know what the inside of a frog looks like, put a few pictures in the biology book. Bring in a few plastic models. Stop killing the frogs!

 

Personally, I think it all has to do with the "cuteness" factor. The more "cute" an animal is, the more attention it gets. Take monkeys, for example. Lots of people think monkeys are cute, therefore, they get a lot of rights. I happen to think monkeys are ugly and just plain nasty-looking. However, I think frogs are extremely cute. But lots of people think they're slimy and that they give you warts (they don't). Most people don't think flies are cute... that's why it's OK to kill them. I personally feel that they are very interesting-looking creatures... they just do gross things. That's why we eat cows. It's because cows aren't cute.

 

Sorry about all of that... it's just that sometimes I think animals get more basic rights than we do. It's not that I hate animals and I want them all dead. I don't. They are a very important part of our ecosystem. Saving endangered species is wonderful and I want to save the rainforest. I really do feel sad about the frogs dying and I really do feel kind of bad after killing a scorpion or a spider. I just think sometimes people go a little too far.

 

[Edited to fix a typo...]

Edited January 9, 2004 by ensign_beedrill

[ARMS 0]

That's all good and well, testing on animals to make treatments for diseases, I don't mind that.  What I don't understand is "animal rights."  Where do animals have rights?  Is there anything in the Constitution about animals having rights?  And what rights are these?  Of course, everything has a right to live, but I don't see animal rights people complaining each time I swat a fly.  That fly is an animal, with as much right to live as everything else.  And, in fact, if these monkeys die as a result of testing for cures to diseases, that is a much better death than the one I just gave the fly.  The monkey died to better medicine.  The fly died because I think flies are gross.

 

What really makes me mad is that I hear no news of animal rights people protesting frog dissection in schools.  The poor frogs!  Let's say that every three students in a class get one frog.  There are twenty seven people in the class.  That's nine frogs!  Now... how many classes are there in the world that dissect frogs?  Thousands!  Even if only a thousand classes dissect frogs, that's 9,000 frogs!  9,000 frogs a year, folks, and more, because I'm sure there are more than a thousand classes dissecting frogs.  In five years, that's over 45,000 frogs!  For what?  If students must know what the inside of a frog looks like, put a few pictures in the biology book.  Bring in a few plastic models.  Stop killing the frogs!

 

Personally, I think it all has to do with the "cuteness" factor.  The more "cute" an animal is, the more attention it gets.  Take monkeys, for example.  Lots of people think monkeys are cute, therefore, they get a lot of rights.  I happen to think monkeys are ugly and just plain nasty-looking.  However, I think frogs are extremely cute.  But lots of people think they're slimy and that they give you warts (they don't).  Most people don't think flies are cute... that's why it's OK to kill them.  I personally feel that they are very interesting-looking creatures... they're do gross things.  That's why we eat cows.  It's because cows aren't cute.

 

Sorry about all of that... it's just that sometimes I think animals get more basic rights than we do.  It's not that I hate animals and I want them all dead.  I don't.  They are a very important part of our ecosystem.  Saving endangered species is wonderful and I want to save the rainforest.  I really do feel sad about the frogs dying and I really do feel kind of bad after killing a scorpion or a spider.  I just think sometimes people go a little too far.

This guy knows exactly what he's talking about, i couldn't argue with any of it :)

[Cramase 0]

I have a question for everybody, some of you may have heard it asked before and I am interested to see people's responses...

 

Imagine you could cure all the worlds diseases, totally wipe them from existance, but to do this you had to take the life of an innocent little girl, would you/could you take that little girl's life?

[Ace 0]

(Side-note: one of the saddest short stories I've ever read, Cramase. I can find it for you if you don't have it or want it for any reason.)

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I have a question for everybody, some of you may have heard it asked before and I am interested to see people's responses...

 

Imagine you could cure all the worlds diseases, totally wipe them from existance, but to do this you had to take the life of an innocent little girl, would you/could you take that little girl's life?

I have a hard time with hypotheticals that have no logical connection - how would killing a child save everyone else?

 

Now, using stem cells from aborted fetuses could potentially save thousands of lives, including those of innocent little children.

 

That kind of reminds me of that episode of ENT "Oasis" - if your child was in danger would you let your ship crash and all the crew be killed in order to save your child?

 

I personally can't see how animal testing is any more egregious than animal consumption and until we outlaw eating meat I don't see the point in outlawing animal testing (although I was under the impression that at least in the US there were strict guidelines for animal use)

 

But to answer your hypothetical - no, I wouldn't

 

Ace, what story I'd like to know what it is.

[ARMS 0]

I have a question for everybody, some of you may have heard it asked before and I am interested to see people's responses...

 

Imagine you could cure all the worlds diseases, totally wipe them from existance, but to do this you had to take the life of an innocent little girl, would you/could you take that little girl's life?

Someone elses kid i could and would.

 

If it was my kid, i would try, but couldn't bring myself to do it.