What was so bad about ST:NEMESIS?

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I read fans saying such bad things about the movie. The last 2 Trek movies didn't do too well, and my theory is that maybe it's becuase they were stand-alone stories that didn't relate to the series.

 

Anywho, back to NEMESIS. Yes, we can nitpick till the sky turns yellow, but you could do the same for most any sci-fi movie. As far as the story goes, what was so bad about the movie? My only story complaint was that the director editted out too many character moments. I think next time they should get someone who's aware of Star Trek, not someone who's never heard of it.

 

So, that's my only beef, too few character moments.

 

What about you?

[Captain Bolivar 0]

What is with the sudden uprise of Nemesis topics? Anywho, I don't think that there was anything "wrong" with it. But like you, I think it might have been BETTER if directed by someone who knew Star Trek. At any rate it was a good movie with a great theme.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Yeah, I'm not saying we need a Trekkie director for #11 or anything, just someone who's aware of the franchise and knows what a photon torpedoe is. B)

[Stelfan 0]

They sent a mailman to attend the animals at the zoo..

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

They sent a mailman to attend the animals at the zoo..

Um... B) Wha..? B)

[Jack_Bauer 1]

Baird as director, plain and simple. I'm sure he's a fine director but he cut out so many good scenes and I think he nearly ruined a fine script by John Logan. I really would have preferred Johnathon Frakes or LeVar Burton directing NEMESIS.

 

Aside from that I really enjoyed Nemesis. I can't watch it without crying.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I totally agree, except for the crying part. The director did a very good job with the movie. Aside from Deck 29 and the sound effects feeling "out of place", the movie was awesome. My only beef is that the Director decided to play "Editor" and cut out loads of character moments. B)

[Captain Ericks 0]

That's the main thing I don't like about Nemisis. It had a pretty good build up, then used it for a long action set piece. You can tell Stuart Baird was an editor for action movies.

 

And on the DVD, Berman said that there was some 45 minutes cut from the original script. I don't think all of it had a place in the movie, but Baird cut out alot of the character scenes in exchange for more battle shots. This could have been a very good movie. I still think it's decent and it did many things right, but the heart of the movie is on life support.

 

One thing I have noticed is that alot of people hate that Data died and say that the movie sucked because of it. Granted I'm not thrilled about it, but it was a very gripping and heart wrenching part of the movie.

[Stelfan 0]

They sent a mailman to attend the animals at the zoo..

Um... Wha..?

They sent Stuard Baird to direct Star Trek. And he hasn't got a clue to do it..

 

Just a phrase we use in Sweden that I tried to translate to english..

[gul_nodrog 2]

Nemesis was o.k., but I guess the fact that we haven't bought a copy of it speaks volumes. I'm not sure why we haven't bought one, but it just hasn't seemed that important to us. Mainly we've been focusing on getting the run of DS9 and TNG on DVD.

 

What did Nemesis do wrong? I don't know about anybody else, but for me it was the following:

 

1. Why weren't Miles and Keiko O'Brien at the wedding? Would have been nice to have seen them again.

 

2. Why was there no real explanation of what Worf was doing back on the Enterprise? When I last saw Worf, he was the Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire. What the hell happened?

 

3. It would have made more sense to have had Guinan ask Worf if he thought he'd ever get married AGAIN, instead of asking Geordi if he thought he'd ever get married. Just would have been nice to see more homage paid to DS9.

 

Like I said, the movie was o.k. but I really think that the cast of TNG deserved a better story than either Insurrection or Nemesis. First Contact was just such a good movie ... it had action, too, but it also had a lot of heart and everyone seemed to have a decent role in the events of the movie.

 

Nemesis would have made a good two-part episode for the series. Insurrection a mediocre one with some really good moments.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

What did Nemesis do wrong?  I don't know about anybody else, but for me it was the following:

 

1.  Why weren't Miles and Keiko O'Brien at the wedding?  Would have been nice to have seen them again.

 

2.  Why was there no real explanation of what Worf was doing back on the Enterprise?  When I last saw Worf, he was the Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire.  What the hell happened?

 

3.  It would have made more sense to have had Guinan ask Worf if he thought he'd ever get married AGAIN, instead of asking Geordi if he thought he'd ever get married.  Just would have been nice to see more homage paid to DS9.

 

Like I said, the movie was o.k. but I really think that the cast of TNG deserved a better story than either Insurrection or Nemesis.  First Contact was just such a good movie ... it had action, too, but it also had a lot of heart and everyone seemed to have a decent role in the events of the movie.

 

Nemesis would have made a good two-part episode for the series.  Insurrection a mediocre one with some really good moments.

1. O'Brien was just a guest star on TNG. It really wouldn't make sense to invite him to the wedding, unless they were guests that Worf brought, since he knew them much better at DS9.

 

2. NEMESIS is set 4 years after DS9's series finale. Logic would dictate that Worf didn't enjoy being a diplomat, so with little reason to return to DS9, rejoined Starfleet and requested assignment to the Enterprise. My only prob with Worf was not seeing him kick Reman butt and wearring red instead of gold. (Worf's security/tactical job is signified by gold, but then again, maybe he keeps red becuase he was 1st officer of the Defiant and so forth.)

 

3. Geordi asked Guinnan if he'd re-mary again, not Guinnan asking Geordi since Geordi never married. Geordi was sitting with Guinnan while Worf was endurring a hang over. It wouldn't make sense to ask someone, at another table, sufferring from a hang over, who was once involved with Troi, and had his wife die a few years ago, if he'd get married again. Besides, Guinnan's, "23 was my limit." line was priceless! :)

 

I just don't understand why fans say that INSURRRECTION or NEMESIS would make a good two-parter. Not every Trek movie has to be a big epic. All I expect from a STAR TREK movie is to see the Enterprise, or another ship, the return of a the crew we know and love, and see them go off on a wild adventure one more time. I think fans had been expecting the 10th movie to be all out action as they also wanted TNG to go out with a bang. Riker and Deanna were expected to finally re-unite in the movies. To be honest, I feel NEMESIS delivered on all points. It did great with the general audience. Why fans didn't like it is beyond me.

[bevfanK 0]

Ok this is something I've posted before...

Well I will start off by saying it is not my favorite TNG movie..

Ramble on

 

I think that because of things cut from the film there were loose ends.. Like the Rikers leaving for the Titan or Beverly leaving for Starfleet medical.. Or how in the universe Wesley Crusher got there..

 

I hate the fact that Data got blown up and that they had a bad funeral for him..

1 toast

1 person cried and

1 person told a story..(a somewhat pathetic story if you ask me)

 

While I think the movie had a great plot line in terms of the Romulans and Shinzon I think they need(needed) to move past Picard and Data always being the center of the plot.. If you have the DVD you know that its Picard and Data with Shinzon on the cover and Picard and Data on the disc and on the other side of the sheet inside who else but Picard and Data.. I believe on the back there is Picard, Data, Worf, Shinzon and Shinzon's addviser dude.. I could be wrong.. My point is(and I'm not trying to make anyone mad) Is that any good character(not necessarily Picard or Data) moments were cut from the film.

 

Any way as I've stated many times I think TNG needs to pass the torch and leave us with good memories.. Like the wedding or the end of "All Good Things..."

Ramble off

 

Thats just what I think but thats because I count the seconds that Beverly is even seen on the screen.. (6minutes25seconds) :)

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Beverly was going to leave for Starfleet Medical? :) You sure?

 

As for Data's funeral, watch the scene closely. Picard's quarters are a wreck. This indicates that it's a wake among Data's closest friends while the Enterprise limps home. The actual memorial service wasn't shown.

 

As for the TNG movies becoming Picard/Data stories, I agree to some extent. I believe that 7-9 had an equal balance of character with Picard obviously getting more screen time since he's the star. My main problem with NEMESIS was that they cut out so many character moments, the movie we got ended up the "Picard/Data" show. Now, I knew this was the premise and this didn't bother me since they were planning to kill off one of the two characters. It just bugged me that everyone else didn't have as much to do.

[gul_nodrog 2]

1. O'Brien was just a guest star on TNG.  It really wouldn't make sense to invite him to the wedding, unless they were guests that Worf brought, since he knew them much better at DS9.

 

2. NEMESIS is set 4 years after DS9's series finale.  Logic would dictate that Worf didn't enjoy being a diplomat, so with little reason to return to DS9, rejoined Starfleet and requested assignment to the Enterprise.  My only prob with Worf was not seeing him kick Reman butt and wearring red instead of gold.  (Worf's security/tactical job is signified by gold, but then again, maybe he keeps red becuase he was 1st officer of the Defiant and so forth.)

 

3. Geordi asked Guinnan if he'd re-mary again, not Guinnan asking Geordi since Geordi never married.  Geordi was sitting with Guinnan while Worf was endurring a hang over.  It wouldn't make sense to ask someone, at another table, sufferring from a hang over, who was once involved with Troi, and had his wife die a few years ago, if he'd get married again.  Besides, Guinnan's, "23 was my limit." line was priceless!

 

I just don't understand why fans say that INSURRRECTION or NEMESIS would make a good two-parter.  Not every Trek movie has to be a big epic.  All I expect from a STAR TREK movie is to see the Enterprise, or another ship, the return of a the crew we know and love, and see them go off on a wild adventure one more time.  I think fans had been expecting the 10th movie to be all out action as they also wanted TNG to go out with a bang.  Riker and Deanna were expected to finally re-unite in the movies.  To be honest, I feel NEMESIS delivered on all points.  It did great with the general audience.  Why fans didn't like it is beyond me.

1. It would have made more sense to see the O'Brien's at the wedding reception than to see Janeway outranking Picard!

 

2. Logic may dictate, but it was still rather clumsy to see Worf back on the Enterprise as security/tactical officer playing third or fourth banana with no explanation as to why he was there. I'm not talking about a huge subplot, but you know a sentence or two between Worf and Picard would have been nice.

 

3. You bring up a very good point .... why was WORF drunk/hungover at the reception??? This Klingon can drink Scotch-swizzling Miles O'Brien under the table. To make him the drunken butt of the party joke was not really insulting as much as it was just dumb.

 

I didn't hate Nemesis as much as I HATED Insurrection ... don't even get me started on that one. Suffice it to say that two professional, educated women like Deanna and Beverly would not stop to discuss the perkiness of their breasts during a life/death situation in which they were working to save an entire race of people from annihilation.

 

I want to like these movies, honest to God I do, but it is hard to embrace them when they're not even close to the quality of episodes of the series. Special effects, be darned. I want to see more character-driven storylines that make sense in the context of these characters we know, not the Enterprise ramming into another ship just on account of.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

1. O'Brien was just a guest star on TNG.  It really wouldn't make sense to invite him to the wedding, unless they were guests that Worf brought, since he knew them much better at DS9.

 

2. NEMESIS is set 4 years after DS9's series finale.  Logic would dictate that Worf didn't enjoy being a diplomat, so with little reason to return to DS9, rejoined Starfleet and requested assignment to the Enterprise.  My only prob with Worf was not seeing him kick Reman butt and wearring red instead of gold.  (Worf's security/tactical job is signified by gold, but then again, maybe he keeps red becuase he was 1st officer of the Defiant and so forth.)

 

3. Geordi asked Guinnan if he'd re-mary again, not Guinnan asking Geordi since Geordi never married.  Geordi was sitting with Guinnan while Worf was endurring a hang over.  It wouldn't make sense to ask someone, at another table, sufferring from a hang over, who was once involved with Troi, and had his wife die a few years ago, if he'd get married again.  Besides, Guinnan's, "23 was my limit." line was priceless! :lol:

 

I just don't understand why fans say that INSURRRECTION or NEMESIS would make a good two-parter.  Not every Trek movie has to be a big epic.  All I expect from a STAR TREK movie is to see the Enterprise, or another ship, the return of a the crew we know and love, and see them go off on a wild adventure one more time.  I think fans had been expecting the 10th movie to be all out action as they also wanted TNG to go out with a bang.  Riker and Deanna were expected to finally re-unite in the movies.  To be honest, I feel NEMESIS delivered on all points.  It did great with the general audience.  Why fans didn't like it is beyond me.

1. It would have made more sense to see the O'Brien's at the wedding reception than to see Janeway outranking Picard!

 

2. Logic may dictate, but it was still rather clumsy to see Worf back on the Enterprise as security/tactical officer playing third or fourth banana with no explanation as to why he was there. I'm not talking about a huge subplot, but you know a sentence or two between Worf and Picard would have been nice.

 

3. You bring up a very good point .... why was WORF drunk/hungover at the reception??? This Klingon can drink Scotch-swizzling Miles O'Brien under the table. To make him the drunken butt of the party joke was not really insulting as much as it was just dumb.

 

I didn't hate Nemesis as much as I HATED Insurrection ... don't even get me started on that one. Suffice it to say that two professional, educated women like Deanna and Beverly would not stop to discuss the perkiness of their breasts during a life/death situation in which they were working to save an entire race of people from annihilation.

 

I want to like these movies, honest to God I do, but it is hard to embrace them when they're not even close to the quality of episodes of the series. Special effects, be darned. I want to see more character-driven storylines that make sense in the context of these characters we know, not the Enterprise ramming into another ship just on account of.

1. Picard has refused promotion to Admiral. After bringing Voyager to Earth from the other side of the galaxy and nearly destroying the collective, of coarse she's gonna be promoted. Knowing Janeway, she saw the promotion as an oppurtunity.

 

2. Why do fans feel that every single aspect of the Trek franchise has to be explained? The movie is set 4 years after DS9. Do ya know what my thought was? "I knew Worf couldn't stand to be a diplomat, nice to see him back in Starfleet and on the Enterprise." With Riker's promotion and Data's death, maybe Worf will now be 1st Officer?

 

3. Don't you know that Klingons don't stop drinking till they're falling down drunk? Wether it be Romulan Ale or another substance, Klingons are known for baaad drinking habbits. Worf having a hang-over at the reception was very in character. I didn't see him as the drunken butt of the party, but rather in a humerous scene. Besides, the big, strong, serrious guys also make for great humor.

 

It's just a movie. Why would you actually take the time to hate it? Deanna and Beverly were evacuating the Ba'Ku to the mountains for protection. They were all sitting down, taking a break for food, water, and rest. It was not a life-or-death situation, at least, not yet. Thus, I enjoyed the, "Have you noticed how your breasts have started to firm up?" line and that Data said it to Worf.

 

 

 

Personally, the things you've mentioned are nitpicky. It's almost as if you're looking for a reason to dislike these movies. Ah well, Insurrection is my favorite and Nemesis is a great movie.