A Romulan War With No Sight Of Them?

[ConnorExum 0]

Any good trekkie knows that Romulans were supposedly unseen for 200 years or so between the time of Enterprise and ST:TOS... But I ask you this realistically can that be?? How could Gene Roddenberry really think that so if a major full scale war was fought? I doubt that it would be without any major ground battles. No, planets were taken for certain military objectives; no, prisoners taken; no. attempt at taking key military officals captive. No, black ops missions inflitrating enemy postions to recon the enemy? Just ship to ship battles being fought with no visual comminucation used... I don't know but that seems like a big stretch if you ask me.

 

I think that it worked well for one episode the "Balance Of Terror" in ST:TOS. However when analysized in more depth the idea that a war could be or would be fought in that manner isn't very realistic in the long run. I think if Enterprise does make it to the big predicted and actually the one event I was looking forward to the "Romulan Conflict". Then the Romulans will have to be seen... There's really no way to get around it and make that storyline really work well. Much to the dismay of many true diehard trekkies that will claim it as an afront to the estblish trek lore. And episodes will have to deal with Romulans over running and taking out Earth colonials and assets with more then just ships. For those that ask why I say it can't be ignored here's why a pure space conflict isn't very realistic for several reasons. One, spaceships can't hold areas on the surface of the planet thus troops will have to land to hodl areas of vital importance. Two, even after massive orbit bombardment there will still be a need to move ground troops into an arar to mop up the surivivors(unless you destroy the planet entirely). Three, sometimes there's a need to capture a target with minimal damage to it, ie mining complexes , refineries and so on. Targets that would be useless after massive orbital bombardments. Thus not allowing the mission's objective to be accomplished... All reasons that would put the Romulan forces in contact with the Human defenders or attackers. Either way Humans would see what Romulans look like.

 

 

If Enterprise does last this long I think they could do wonders with a Romulan War storyline. Of course it's got to be done right. They just can't do it half way and it has to have feeling of a real conflict. Not just some half done storyline... Yes I dare say it must embody the essance of an all out drag out knock down tooth and nail conflict that's ramifications will last for centuries and determine the out of so much... But it can't be done in a bland and overly John Wayne hero way... There has to be that sense that war's hell and everyone is wounded at the end some wounds just can't be seen.

[Red Shirt Volunteer 0]

How much is known about the war with the Romulans other than it was mentioned briefly that there was some kind of conflict were no face-to-face contact was made? It could have just been a cold war, in which case it would be quite reasonable that nasty encounters between ships was all that happened.

 

As for nobody having seen anyone else, isn't it possible that diplomats may have met secretly and decided to keep it all classified or even have no records at all of their meetings. In such meetings, couldn't they have decided to keep things in a cold war state on the surface to satisfy ambitious military leaders without the carnage of planetary invasions.

 

Why does everything in Trek have to be determined from one or two lines in TOS? Someone could have been lying. Someone could have been mistaken. Information may not be complete, or may have become distorted over time (Trek is based over several hundred years now) or by biased historians of the era. There are lots of alternate possibilities to explain things that were said in TOS.

[ConnorExum 0]

That's just it the general impression that the ST:TOS "Terror Of Balance" left with the viewer is one of a major conflict. Not just a bunch of border skirmishes or some sort of limited warfare. Spock, claimed that the space battles were fought with atomic weapons on ships with no capablity of taking on prisoners or visual communications. Which increased the brutality of the conflict. But you're right you can't base everything on those few lines. Which is exactly what I was pointing out that from a realistic standpoint there couldn't be a conflict of any real intensity or duration without some sort of physical or visual contact with the each side of the conflict. Thus Gene Roddenberry's idea must tweaked a bit to really be considered a viable and realistic concept.

[Red Shirt Volunteer 0]

I have to agree with you there. Also, I think they should just toss the whole idea of the conflict being fought with nukes. It just seems a little silly now. It really seems ridiculous that missiles (or however they choose to carry the warheads, but I don't really see many other ways) would even have a hope of hitting a warp capable ship, except as the coup de gras after it's engines had been disabled by energy weapons.

 

Besides that, during the TOS first run, the issue of nuclear weapons would have been on a lot of people's minds, so the thought of the use of them in Trek would have created a horrible image and struck a chord with the viewers of the time. These days nuclear weapons remain a threat, but the world isn't likely on edge about it as it was at the height of the Cold War. It's all about mysterious WMOD and they've played that card with the Xindi probe.

[Klingonmike 0]

Why do the Romulins have to show their faces to the crew of the Enterprise or any other earth vessel in war. Perhaps the Romulins don't want to be seen. A war can be fought without showing their faces. I'm sure we will see the beginnings of the Romulin/Earth wars around season 6 or 7.

[Red Shirt Volunteer 0]

Maybe they send the Remans out for that kind of gig on ships rigged to blow if they take to much damage. No prisoners and all that stuff. There could be ways to explain it, but as ConnorExum stated...

 

... realistically can that be?? How could Gene Roddenberry really think that so if a major full scale war was fought?

 

Let's face it, a lot of the stuff from TOS was probably made up as they went along and they didn't have to worry about continuity as much as the writers do today (or perhaps I should say as much as the writers should today). On the other hand, if ships were using nukes and the threat of a ship coming into orbit and dropping a few little presents on your army was ever present, would you ever bother sending troops in? Unlikely. The enemy fleet have to be virtually wiped out first.

 

This brings me back what I referred to as a "cold war." Perhaps that wasn't the best choice of words, rather a limited war might be more likely. However it gets explained, they're going to have to rework Roddenberry's idea as told in "Balance of Terror" as ConnorExum noted.

[Klingonmike 0]

I don't think they would have to re-work Roddenberry's stories. If there is a war then we see them fight. They can do scenes where we see the Romulins its just the crew of Enterprise that never sees them or the other human crews.That will keep the continuity completely intact. If you start to screw around with Roddenberry's stories then you will really piss off the Star trek fans!

[breencommander 0]

If the Imperial Romulan military utilized battle armor with helmets (like the Stormtroopers of Star Wars),then its possible they could have engaged in ground fighting or shipboard fighting without being seen.Its a stretch,but its still a possibility.Personally,I think the whole Romulan Wars as invisioned and presented by TOS should be tossed out and reworked,anyway.The facts given in "Balance of Terror" make little sense.And the nukes thing,that's just dumb.

[fredbroca 0]

the way it looks to me is that I remember that the romulans only had impulse or low warp so they would never be able to get to a human planet so I am thinking that most of the battles happened in the neutral zone so they might not have seen each other and by the way thanks for the spell check VBG.

[Admiral Kirk 1]

I think the line about the war being fought with primitive nukes should have been adhered to. But of course all that out since the NX-01 is now using photon torpedoes. Of course they could say that the war got so bloody that they statrted using every weapon at their disposal even an advanced form of nuclear weapon. I agree that it is possible that ground fights could have been fought without the romulans being completely exposed. I also like the idea of a primitive knock down drag out fight with the Romulans.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

and by the way thanks for the spell check VBG.

LOL No problem.

 

I think everyone realizes that there are things in the timeline (like the Nukes and having never seen the Romulans) that weren't thought out or planned as being part of a seiries 40 years down the road. Had they known in 1966 that there would be a 5th series in 2003 that might possibly deal with the Romulan war they would have left more possibilities open.

 

We just have to accept some of these things and if today's Powers That Be see fit to deviate from the past "Future History" then so be it. I don't believe they will stray far if at all though.

[Red Shirt Volunteer 0]

Exactly right about them not forseeing the future realistically back in the 60's. And for me, that's not really a problem. The writers need at least a little freedom to deviate from such ludicrous ideas. If not, they're bound to come up with a completely implausible story. Better to reinterpret what was said before in the context of a believable story than to force such silly ideas into the Enterprise plotline.

Edited August 28, 2003 by Red Shirt Volunteer

[A l t e r E g o 9]

I don't see how having the war fought with nukes is silly, to this day aren't they the most destructive force man has ever created? Even in the NG times I never saw a Photon T or spread of them which seemed to come close to the detonative power of even one nuke. Why is it so far fetched that they could be used in a war with the Roms? (treatys not withstanding)

[Red Shirt Volunteer 0]

It's silly because the delivery system is not realistic. The warhead would have to come in a missile, which is a pretty slow moving weapon, so you'd need to be fairly close to fire it, which could put your own ship at risk. Energy weapons seem to be the choice for close combat in Trek.

 

You could fire a nuke from a distance, but the enemy would surely detect it coming and just go to warp.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

Who has said torpedo casing's and propulsion systems can't be what is used to deliver the warhead.

[Red Shirt Volunteer 0]

Sorry, I was thinking of torpedoes when I wrote missile in that last post. I guess they could use the nukes to finish off injured ships, but that seems like a bit of a waste of firepower - like squashing a near dead mosquito with a baseball bat.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

No problem.