Non Corporeal Beings

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I tried this topic once before but it got off on a religious topic and tanked. With The Crossing coming up I thought maybe I'd try again. Various ST series have presented non-corporeal beings. They're always explained away as an end-state of evolution. I think evolution is one of those terms people use to cover a multitude of sins so to speak.

 

Science suggests that the human personality is an organic process - our memories, emotions, tastes etc are responses to chemical processes in our body. If that is the case then we wouldn't be able to leave our bodies because it creates what we are. So in that sense I think these shows are more fantasy than science. And the fact that aliens are involved doesn't matter because humans are also involved in the consciousness transfer.

 

There is some evidence however that we do have a separable consciousness as evidenced by some of the near death experiences. I think it is an interesting topic - whether humans have a separable consciousness. If there is evidence then it becomes science not fantasy.

 

If our consciousness could be removed - as Janice Lester did to Cpt. Kirk - could it be removed without switching to another body or does it need a body to survive? Perhaps that may be how we can accomplish time travel without interfering with events? Any thoughts?

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I believe there are 3 components to the human being. Body, spirit, and soul.

 

As far as our personallity being a complex reaction to chemical processes, I believe that's partly true. However, I believe our consciousness is also a seperate entity. If it were "seperated" from our physical body, I see no reason why it would die, as I believe that consciousness to be one's soul which is eternal. I don't think our consciousness could time travel, becuase outside of the body, how would we activate the time machine or be effected by the temporal rift or whatever?

[ambassador_klaatu 0]

Non-coporeal beings are very real,my friend.One of my very first assignments as a member of my world's diplomatic corps was to an asteroid field in the Emerald Vortx Nebula where a species of non-coporeal beings reside.What delightful creatures!They gave me a receipe for barbecue that is quite simply out of this world!Yummy...

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Non-coporeal beings are very real,my friend.One of my very first assignments as a member of my world's diplomatic corps was to an asteroid field in the Emerald Vortx Nebula where a species of non-coporeal beings reside.What delightful creatures!They gave me a receipe for barbecue that is quite simply out of this world!Yummy... :)

Exactly what would a non-corporeal being barbecue?

[ambassador_klaatu 0]

Non-coporeal beings are very real,my friend.One of my very first assignments as a member of my world's diplomatic corps was to an asteroid field in the Emerald Vortx Nebula where a species of non-coporeal beings reside.What delightful creatures!They gave me a receipe for barbecue that is quite simply out of this world!Yummy... :)

Exactly what would a non-corporeal being barbecue?

Before they evolved into their present state,these beings were a humanoid species reknowned throughout the galaxy for their delicious tri-tip barbecue!Since they have "moved on" and no longer require such nutriment,they no longer jealously guard their secret recipes!I am one of a mere handful of individuals that they have graced with a copy of their recipe for BBQ!And don't even ask me,I'm not telling what it is!

Edited September 15, 2003 by ambassador_klaatu

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Tell me... *pulls out Romulan mind control device* :)

 

J/K

Edited September 15, 2003 by Captain Jean-Luc Picard

[Captain Bolivar 0]

Agreed, our minds (thought processes, memory, etc.) need our bodies to exist; however, this does not discount the possibility that evolution (if indeed evolution actually occurs) could eventually transform a human in to a non-corporeal being. I'm not saying that it is definately possible, but the fact of the matter is that we do not know.

 

Furthermore, there is much we do not know about the universe. There could be more to us that what we see here in "reality". Reality is likely to be much more complex than we can understand. An amoeba doesn't have nearly the same awarness of reality that we have, so why should we have a perfect understanding of reality. It is highly unlikely that we are capable at the present of experiencing reality as a whole.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Agreed, our minds (thought processes, memory, etc.) need our bodies to exist; however, this does not discount the possibility that evolution (if indeed evolution actually occurs) could eventually transform a human in to a non-corporeal being.  I'm not saying that it is definately possible, but the fact of the matter is that we do not know.

I take it tht you are saying that our emotions, memories etc are chemical processes. If that is the case I question us being able to evolve into an energy source. Evolution is by definition a long term process involving genetic changes - these would be changes to our physical bodies. Our thoughts, memories etc would have to cease being chemical and become energy for us to become non-corporeal. It seems that something like that could be accomplished technologically (when technology advances). Indeed in the Star Trek universe this has to happen for transporters to work. So I would say it would be a technological advance rather than an evolutionary one.

 

However, if we're already dual entities; as certain episodes of Star Trek suggest (as does some religious and near-death experience literature); then again I would say we would not evolve into non-corporeal beings as much as our non-corporeal self (our inner wisp) learned to live independently of the body. I would also add that according to the Star Trek world we are already capable of this - however the physical body would die when our non-corporeal self left. Since in episodes like The Crossing the inner person is removed by outside means it would seem this too might be a case where technology could be developed to help us separate ourselves.

 

The real question then is would we want to and why. There seems to be an assumption that being an energy form is better than a corporeal body. Well lets see - no chocolate, walks on the beach, October mornings in the mountains, sex, music...etc. I'm not sure I agree that would be better but I think I just found a good plot for a story. ...makes note in Word.

 

Of course...if we are already dual natured entities then there are other considerations but I'm not going there. I'll stick with the question..do we really want our technology to go that far and is it an improvement.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I have a question. Humor me, and, for the sake of this post, let's say we have a soul - the non-corporial being - and there's a Heaven and Hell.

 

Let's say man finds a way to leave his body and keep an evil pressense or another soul out. Well, what happens if your body dies? Would you spend eternity as an energy being, or would you be whisked away to Heaven or Hell?

 

Putting Heaven and Hell aside, I've allways seen one's soul as something of a spiritual nature, rather than energy. With this said, how would we interract with this world?

 

Not trying to get religous, just different perspective.

[Kyalia 0]

Hmm, a thought, verging on religion:

Several religions (Wicca, etc.) believe in astral projection.

If that really works, there's evidence for the 'science' side.

 

And ancestral worship-- no Heaven/Hell, so there's an answer. Not necessarily correct, but an answer.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I have a question. Humor me, and, for the sake of this post, let's say we have a soul - the non-corporial being - and there's a Heaven and Hell.

 

Let's say man finds a way to leave his body and keep an evil pressense or another soul out. Well, what happens if your body dies?  Would you spend eternity as an energy being, or would you be whisked away to Heaven or Hell?

 

Putting Heaven and Hell aside, I've allways seen one's soul as something of a spiritual nature, rather than energy.  With this said, how would we interract with this world?

 

Not trying to get religous, just different perspective.

CJLP, If you weren't trying to turn this into a religious discussion you would not have asked that question. I just wanted to have light hearted theoretical discussion. I did not want this to turn into a religious discussion - that wearies people at times - remember the death penalty thread.

 

Your questions can not be answered without it becoming a religious discussion. I assume your questions were asked for sake of argument but just in case I will send you a pm with my response.

Edited September 15, 2003 by TheUnicornHunter

[Captain Bolivar 0]

Your questions can not be answered without it becoming a religious discussion

 

Wheather or not the topic becomes religious does alter the question's ability to be answered; there is no answer.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Your questions can not be answered without it becoming a religious discussion

 

Wheather or not the topic becomes religious does alter the question's ability to be answered; there is no answer.

You could answer whether you think being noncorporeal is an improvement over being corporeal.

 

Plus, I suppose it is possible that if our consciouness was converted to energy it is possible we could choose exist in subspace or perhaps another dimension so we wouldn't interact with corporeal beings.

 

And if your body died while you were traveling the universe - I see the makings of a twilight zone episode...you try to steal someone else's while they're out and about. Which opens all sort of questions like how would you police something like that. Would you have the technology to "oust" interlopers?

 

Could you then create nonbiological bodies...this was a plot idea in a couple of TOS episodes.

Edited September 16, 2003 by TheUnicornHunter