Jer8m8 0 Posted July 25, 2004 I understand that many people were upset that Archer's Grandfather iirc served in the Eugenics War. Is it possible that in order to keep Trek as a possible future the Eugenics War is now another term for ww3? Can this be accepted for continuity's sake? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrWho42 13 Posted July 25, 2004 I like to believe the Eugenics Wars were began in 1992 and ended 1996. If we keep making changes to what TOS said in the past, as we progress more into the future, then we'd be calling what much of what is said in that series to be untrue for every series in Trek. Sure there are minor things in Trek that we can overlook, small mistakes... But I feel the Eugenics Wars were fought in the 90s, and we cannot overlook that fact... ...Or we could... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrion 0 Posted July 25, 2004 Sorry to burst your question but its entirely possible that Archer's grandfather fought in the Eugenic wars the following is 2 of my thoughts: 1. in First Contact Data tells Picard that the time they arrived in, was just after World War III ended that was the 2050-60 era i believe 2. In the Star Trek book called the "Eugenic Wars" its stated that the war took place in 1992-1996 It is possible for Archers Grandfather to have taken presedents in the Eugenic Wars as with the Age coniciding with his era. Well thats my thoughts anyways toodle oo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace 0 Posted July 25, 2004 I've wondered about this before, and actually hoped the Eugenics War and WW3 were one and the same in order to move it out of our current time period ('96). I'd like to think the whole "1996" comment was later altered by some temporal incursion (IE- a continuity reset :) ), but it might be a little too hard to explain away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jer8m8 0 Posted July 25, 2004 I've wondered about this before, and actually hoped the Eugenics War and WW3 were one and the same in order to move it out of our current time period ('96). I'd like to think the whole "1996" comment was later altered by some temporal incursion (IE- a continuity reset ), but it might be a little too hard to explain away. :) Right, that's basically what i'm saying. I know the Eugenics War was 92-96, but putting it in the 2050s makes more sense since I don't remember any eugenics war ten years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrWho42 13 Posted July 25, 2004 I know the Eugenics War was 92-96, but putting it in the 2050s makes more sense since I don't remember any eugenics war ten years ago. Hmmmm, what if Trek took place in alternative timeline? Reason why so few do not remember a war concerning genetic superhumans... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ensign_beedrill 0 Posted July 25, 2004 (edited) The Eugenics Wars and World War III were entirely separate. I was reading some Star Trek article a while ago and it said that people mistakenly believe The Eugenics Wars and World War III to be the same. I forget where it was, I read so many Star Trek things that I forget which ones are which! I'd point you to it, if I remembered. But if you want some sort of reconciliation (because we obviously did not have full-scale open warfare... we would have noticed) you can read The Eugenics Wars by Greg Cox. I've read Volume One and it was really good. It tells about the conception of the super humans and follows Khan as he grows up with a special focus on Gary Seven and Roberta Lincoln (and of course, Isis). Remember them from "Assignment: Earth?" Cox does a wonderful job of bringing in all sorts of old Trek lore and characters and mixing together actual historical facts with his own fictional twists to really make this whole thing totally believable. I haven't read Volume Two, yet. Sadly, my local library does not carry it. But I am sure that it is every bit as compelling and outstanding as the first book. From what I've read of summaries, the Wars were conducted covertly, so we wouldn't have had much of a clue as to what was going on. But it's an awesome story and I recommend you read it. It will really help you to believe that these wars really did happen. Edited July 25, 2004 by ensign_beedrill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WEAREBORG4102 0 Posted July 25, 2004 Totally different. Period. Every generation is about 20-35 years. lets say Archer is 45 in 2153 so he was born in 2108 but that would make no sense because Zefram cochrane worked with Henry Archer on the Warp 5 complex. Therefore that would mean Henry would need to be at least 15 by 2063. So he would be born in 2048. Most people wouldn't be having children at 60! That would cast doubt on the fact that the grandfather was in the Eugenics wars alone. Say he did have a child at sixty. If you were 18 in 1996 you would be born in 1978. Most people don't have children at 70! That casts doubt on the claim. If one generation is 35 years. 2 generations is 70 years. Therefore 2040 would be the date of the grandfather's birth if Archer was born in 2110. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunderfish 0 Posted July 26, 2004 I see Manny Coto gave an answer of sorts to the timing of the Eugenics War at the UPN bash last - week - if you don't mind spoilers you can read it at Startrek.com. His attitude was a pretty philosophical one - i.e. the 90s were the future for TOS and it's not the writers fault that there were no eugenics war in the end. He gave a few hints about what's in store for Season 4 and I have to say I am really looking forward to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scaleman 0 Posted August 18, 2004 You know, i've been wondering where the Eugenics War fits in myself, but then being the semi-philosophical guy i am i got to wondering (warning, this is gonna get really, really DEEP ). At first i was thinking about it being the same as WW3 myself, for the exact same reason as "it's supposed to be in the future", and at current we don't have the technology to create clones, at least in public. This is where things start to get a bit wacky, cause as there are reports about ufo's there's as much "info" on secret organisations, advanced technology and the like that we COULD have had a Eugenics War during the 90's, but then there is always the talk (in Star Trek) that these genetic "supermen" took control of the majority of the arabic/african/asian portion of the world, in such a way that it would be basically impossible NOT to notice. And then there's the idea that the Star Trek universe isn't even ours. I know this sounds crazy, but couldn't it be possible that the Star Trek universe as we know it is actually an off-shoot of our universe, as are so many other shows and thus why various people seem to "cling" to some shows while others "cling" to different shows? This idea of various universes actually came from other sources, but i thought "could it be this is what's going on with ours? That perhaps we're a focus point in time and space of a sort?" So, it''s really anyone's guess which is the most likely solution. But perhaps it'd be best to go with the simplest one, ie the Eugenics War being PART of WW3 as per the suggestion of Ahkam's Razor (sorry if i screwed up the term, i haven't seen it spelled out yet ). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrWho42 13 Posted August 18, 2004 (edited) Occam's Razor.. *just being helpful to the wrong-spellers...* Personally, I think Trek and our timeline(s) are a bit different... Unless we'd be able to mesh the Eugenics Wars with ours in the manner of how Greg Cox did it... *Not canon, but maybe that's how it may have occured... We can't bring back Robert Lansing for the Assignment: Earth series... ..yet..* But I still believe the Eugenics Wars happened in the year that TOS said they were.... Unless they started changing that too.. Edited August 18, 2004 by drwho42 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Korthedaharmaster 0 Posted August 18, 2004 You know its possible Archer ment his great Grandfather when he said this he is talking to an alien(DEGRA I THINK) why complicate things with great the alien doesnt know how long ago the wars were so it is much simplier to just say Grandfather. People take to much into simple little lines like this. Star Trek is a TELEVISION SHOW I.E. NOT REAL so relax and enjoy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivendells_king 0 Posted August 18, 2004 Maybe his grandfather was a off spring of a escaped gentic hybred so he lived longer than people or else radiation from bombs could have mutated his Dna causing him to be able to reproduce at a older age. Maybe you people should kinda get over it its just a show! I did not see the futerama watchers freeken out because of extreme changes. If you dont belive me bring it on! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrWho42 13 Posted August 18, 2004 You know its possible Archer ment his great Grandfather when he said this he is talking to an alien(DEGRA I THINK) why complicate things with great the alien doesnt know how long ago the wars were so it is much simplier to just say Grandfather. People take to much into simple little lines like this. Star Trek is a TELEVISION SHOW I.E. NOT REAL so relax and enjoy. 252620[/snapback] He was telling this to Trip, in the episode: "Hatchery" [ENT #69]... Not Degra. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headborg 1 Posted August 18, 2004 I like to believe the Eugenics Wars were began in 1992 and ended 1996. If we keep making changes to what TOS said in the past, as we progress more into the future, then we'd be calling what much of what is said in that series to be untrue for every series in Trek. Sure there are minor things in Trek that we can overlook, small mistakes... But I feel the Eugenics Wars were fought in the 90s, and we cannot overlook that fact... ...Or we could... 241843[/snapback] how about this for a theory: Archer at end of season 3 isn't really back in 1940's...but some alt time line where he's n the middle of the Eugenics war in 20xx... and he is! (becomes) his very own great grand-father! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick Alverado 0 Posted August 18, 2004 Correct me if I am wrong, it happens occasionally, but didn't Archer say his Great-Grandfather? I remember watching that episode and as soon as I heard that line I started making calculations as to how it could fit with the Eugenics Wars being in the 1990s. If Archer was about 45 he would have been born around 2108. If his father was around 45 at that time he would have been born around 2063. If Archers grandfather was around 45 at that point he would have been born around 2018. If Archer's great grandfather was around 45 at that time he would have been born around 1973. That would put him in his 20's during the 1990s. While this is abit farfetched, it is still possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headborg 1 Posted August 19, 2004 Correct me if I am wrong, it happens occasionally, but didn't Archer say his Great-Grandfather? I remember watching that episode and as soon as I heard that line I started making calculations as to how it could fit with the Eugenics Wars being in the 1990s. If Archer was about 45 he would have been born around 2108. If his father was around 45 at that time he would have been born around 2063. If Archers grandfather was around 45 at that point he would have been born around 2018. If Archer's great grandfather was around 45 at that time he would have been born around 1973. That would put him in his 20's during the 1990s. While this is abit farfetched, it is still possible. 252629[/snapback] that doesn't really work..cause we saw pictures of archer around age 10 with his father and his father wasn't n his 50's or 60's. and his father was suppost to have worked with cocran b4 he left for Alpha centari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WEAREBORG4102 0 Posted August 21, 2004 Occam's Razor.. *just being helpful to the wrong-spellers...* Personally, I think Trek and our timeline(s) are a bit different... Unless we'd be able to mesh the Eugenics Wars with ours in the manner of how Greg Cox did it... *Not canon, but maybe that's how it may have occured... We can't bring back Robert Lansing for the Assignment: Earth series... ..yet..* But I still believe the Eugenics Wars happened in the year that TOS said they were.... Unless they started changing that too.. 252435[/snapback] what does ockham's razor have to do anything with it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrWho42 13 Posted August 21, 2004 But perhaps it'd be best to go with the simplest one, ie the Eugenics War being PART of WW3 as per the suggestion of Ahkam's Razor (sorry if i screwed up the term, i haven't seen it spelled out yet ). 252392[/snapback] Occam's Razor.. :o*just being helpful to the wrong-spellers...* Personally, I think Trek and our timeline(s) are a bit different... Unless we'd be able to mesh the Eugenics Wars with ours in the manner of how Greg Cox did it... *Not canon, but maybe that's how it may have occured... We can't bring back Robert Lansing for the Assignment: Earth series... ..yet..* But I still believe the Eugenics Wars happened in the year that TOS said they were.... Unless they started changing that too.. 252435[/snapback] what does ockham's razor have to do anything with it? 253627[/snapback] Scaleman mispelled it. :) Oh, that's an alternative as to how to spell Occam's Razor.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
