True Diversity

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Star Trek need's diversity in it's truest form.

 

IDIC - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

 

Some people want to see Arrabians in Star Trek. Some wish to see homosexuals, others religous people, I myself would like to see a Christian, and so forth.

 

Now, I've noticed that people agree that there should be great diversity extending to having homosexual characters.

 

Once I suggested that there be a religous character, a debate began. Some people said it was silly to believe in something that doesn't exist, others said religion leads to war, some say they don't care, some wish to see it, and so forth...

 

My question is this: By wanting true diversity to the extent of having homosexuals and then saying their shouldn't be religous people in the future becuase we would evolve past the need to believe in God a bit hypocritical? Plus, they are saying that God doesn't exist. Who on Earth are they to say God doesn't exist when they have no way to prove it?

 

Anywho, I would like to discuss diversity in general and in all forms with you fellow fans!

 

However, I would ask the mod to close this thread in the event of a heated debate for 1 day so those going at each other's throats can calm down. I ask this, becuase it happened in another thread, and quite frankly, I think it's a good idea.

 

CYA all arround!

[Guest Ktrek]

I think the big word here in this discussion is "tolerance". Tolerance is not "acceptance". I can be very tolerant of someone as to their beliefs and practices and yet not accept their beliefs and practices. This is the kind of world I think Roddenberry envisioned. Not one where there is no longer religion. Where all forms of sexual immorality is the norm. Where political differences no longer exist etc. No! The future will continue to be more diverse and not less so so the only answer is "tolerance". That's just my opinion!

 

 

Ktrek

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I think the big word here in this discussion is "tolerance". Tolerance is not "acceptance". I can be very tolerant of someone as to their beliefs and practices and yet not accept their beliefs and practices.

 

Ktrek

I think you've made an important distinction on this point. You can treat a person with respect, even love and care for them without necessarily agreeing with their actions or beliefs. However, I don't think most people define "tolerance" the way you do. In fact, "tolerance" is generally taught as mandated approval.

 

I also think people confuse the term liberal and open-minded. Let me give an example. I graduated from the University of Utah (Salt Lake City) with a BS in Psychology. Contrary to what you may think the school (at least the Psych dept) wasn't especially fond of the local religious community - which makes the following more interesting. During one of my classes one of the professors who worked with family counseling made the following observation. Some parents prided themselves on being tolerant; they could take purple hair, safety pins in the cheeks, drugs, dropping out of school, teenage sex - whatever. They were opened minded parents....but heaven forbid should one of those children want to join the Mormon church. The parents would go ballistic - threaten to disown the children whatever.

 

Captain, maybe I'm cynical but I think there is as much chance for the diversity you're looking for in Star Trek as there is for these parents to accept their children's choice.

 

I too am troubled by the cavalier way ST dismisses religion as something humans will out-grow. As I mentioned in another thread - that is what bothers me - not that they don't have religious characters but that they just dismiss something of vast importance to a great many people.

[Klingonmike 0]

I for one really don't care if they have a Christian or gay on Star Trek,its how they are presented I am worried about.I would not want to see a gay sex scene in Star Trek,but if it were a gay couple just holding hands and walking down the corridor thats ok by me.

I also would not want to see a Christian walking around asking fellow crewmen if they are "Saved" or "Do you accept Jesus as your savior",But if it shows them attending a chapel service aboard the ship thats ok.

 

I'm sure there are religious and gay people aboard the Starship but they leave it in its place like in the privacy of their quarters or chapel,they don't bring it to the bridge because it does not belong there.

 

 

I also don't really care if relgions last another couple hundred years,that irrelavent to me since I personally don't believe in a god or supreme being.As much as I can't prove a god doesn't exist,no one can prove he/she/it does.

[dsbs 0]

both of you make excellent points, and I agree. But I like the way Gene Rodenberry focused more on chracter because THAT"S what's important.. I think he tended to avoid giving characters religious beliefs and such because a lot of people are NOT tolerant and might not have watched the show otherwise. I admire him for havving black (female) and jewish people in TOS, too, because at the time, iit would have been very risky.

[Lessa_Soong 0]

YOu all know that at first that the network (NBC) wanted Gene to remove...SPOCK. Can you imagine a future where we saw the aliens, but avoided them? Great idea.

There are many things in this world that i can accept and there are things that i cannot. Rape, murder, theft, i don't think that means i'm intolerant, but i do not have a problem with "faithful" people (i say faithful, since there is more then one faith) in Trek. I thought Kira struggling with her faith in DS9 was great. It was meaningful, well done and relevant to the show and stories. Showing a loving same sex couple having a romantic dinner together or flirting at a movie, something innocent like that is fine, but make it relevant, not just there to, say, shock and leave. The Modonna mentality is not need in Trek.

 

can you imagine having to visit the Ferengi homeworld? The norm there is that the females are naked...I don't think i would even want to see the cats on that planet naked, but ...if i were in Star Fleet and was assigned there to exchange...something, i woudl have to repect their view.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

You all make excellent points!

 

Now, let's not dwell on my following question, but I'd just like a few fews...

 

If there was a religion like Christianity, for example, how would you feel if it was just a "part" of the character and not something heavilly focused on?

 

Like I said, let's not change the direction of the thread to this, I'm just currious how people would feel if it were done. People say Star Trek needs bold new changes, and I feel one of those should be a human who's religous.

[shinzonfan 0]

Captain Jean-Luc Picard, I think there is a lot of diversity in ST. Can you be more specific. I know you want a Christian character but is that all? Are there other "groups" ( I use the term groups very lightly, I am at a loss at the moment for a more p.c. word)?

 

As for a Christian character, it doesn't bother me, as long as the story is good.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I would like to see competent females in non-sexist clothing. Does that constitute a group?

[shinzonfan 0]

I would like to see competent females in non-sexist clothing.  Does that constitute a group?

I second that motion.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Since when have the females, main characters anyway, been show as incompetent? I agree on the clothing thing. NO MORE CATSUITS!

[Lessa_Soong 0]

there have been times with Troi. In "Disaster" she was out on a limb and looked lost. With her rank, she should ahve been better prepared. (Sorry, tha went off, didn't it.)

 

the catsuits have to go and the little rub downs on Enterprise...Please!

 

Like i said, Kira with her faith was fine. Another with another faith is fine. I read alot of fan fiction and i have seen that be a focus on a new character for the story and it works well.

Most poeple have some kind of driveing force in thier life...family...GOD...Trek...

If we get to know a character, we have to see the driving force in their's.

does that make any sense?

[dsbs 0]

I would like to see competent females in non-sexist clothing.  Does that constitute a group?

I...ummm...third it? (how many people have already #ed the motion? I'm the number after that!!)

 

Janeway and B'Lanna were good examples of non-sexist Trek (although when they did the episode when they split BLanna into two - klingon and human - I didnt like that without her klingon side she was...a coward...Unless im remembering the ep wrong. I saw it a looong time ago)

 

And lessa, of course it makes sense!! (I see you're having a case of dsbs-itis)

[Takara_Soong 4]

I think in the beginning Troi was not as strong as she could have been but her "catsuits" were no where as bad as 7's and she did wear dresses quite often. Crusher, Polaski and Guinan were all strong female characters. Ro is certainly a good example of a strong female character as well. Many of the female guests were also very strong. I think recent Trek has done a very good job of projecting woman in very strong roles. The woman of TOS (other than Uhura) were "victims" of the '60's and the sexist thinking of network executives at the time. The fact that NBC didn't want a female first officer is proof enough of that.

[shinzonfan 0]

The woman of TOS (other than Uhura) were "victims" of the '60's and the sexist thinking of network executives at the time.  The fact that NBC didn't want a female first officer is proof enough of that.

Well put Takara.

[trekbabe 0]

Star Trek need's diversity in it's truest form.

 

IDIC - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

 

Some people want to see Arrabians in Star Trek.  Some wish to see homosexuals, others religous people, I myself would like to see a Christian, and so forth.

 

Now, I've noticed that people agree that there should be great diversity extending to having homosexual characters.

 

Once I suggested that there be a religous character, a debate began.  Some people said it was silly to believe in something that doesn't exist, others said religion leads to war, some say they don't care, some wish to see it, and so forth...

 

My question is this: By wanting true diversity to the extent of having homosexuals and then saying their shouldn't be religous people in the future becuase we would evolve past the need to believe in God a bit hypocritical?  Plus, they are saying that God doesn't exist.  Who on Earth are they to say God doesn't exist when they have no way to prove it?

 

Anywho, I would like to discuss diversity in general and in all forms with you fellow fans!

 

However, I would ask the mod to close this thread in the event of a heated debate for 1 day so those going at each other's throats can calm down.  I ask this, becuase it happened in another thread, and quite frankly, I think it's a good idea.

 

CYA all arround!

I stand guilty as one, if not the only one of the people who over reacted on the other thread i did try to go back into it to apologise for my error but the thread had been closed so i PM'D TM and my apology was graciously accepted.If i upset anyone else with my unwarranted rant i apologise.

[shinzonfan 0]

I stand guilty as one, if not the only one of the people who over reacted on the other thread    i did try to go back into it to apologise for my error but the thread had been closed so i PM'D TM and my apology was graciously accepted.If i upset anyone else with my unwarranted rant i apologise.

I was posting on that thread. I did not take offense to anything anyone had posted. We are all very passionate about ST or we would not be on this board. Sometimes we may get carried away with our own thoughts and feelings on a subject, but that is because there is great diversity among us, with at least one thing in common, Star Trek.

[Gotabite 0]

One of the reason I began watching the original Star Trek Series years ago, because it was one of the only televised shows that brought together men and women of all nationalities and races, and placed them in positions of respect and character. As a person of color I was very impressed with this. Over the years and through the various series, Star Trek has tried to deal with many issues that relate to the human conditions we continue to face here on earth. I think there continues to be that need for Star Trek fans. Tolerance, Acceptance, Diversity...........these were part of the beginnings of Star Trek, and should always be.

[subcommanderbeavis 0]

I think the big word here in this discussion is "tolerance". Tolerance is not "acceptance". I can be very tolerant of someone as to their beliefs and practices and yet not accept their beliefs and practices. This is the kind of world I think Roddenberry envisioned. Not one where there is no longer religion. Where all forms of sexual immorality is the norm. Where political differences no longer exist etc. No! The future will continue to be more diverse and not less so so the only answer is "tolerance". That's just my opinion!

 

 

Ktrek

Yeah,what ktrek said.I would only add that my 'tolerance' only extends to those who are tolerant of my personal beliefs,etc.If somebody starts stepping on my toes,then I can become the most intolerant SOB on this or any other planet.