Stewey

But they DON'T EVER miss the show. They tune in every week with their little pads of paper and pens, they screw their faces into an evil look so ANYTHING they might FIND ENJOYABLE wont be seen. After all the nitpicking notes have been taken they then head off to the message boards to throw their bashing parties. Imo of course.

It's just a TV show, no need for hatred just because people see the show differently to yourself

We Humans are VERY arrogant. it's in our nature. Remember, we used to think WE were the center of the universe!

 

 

I am sure Klingons call other lifeforms like them "Klingonoid" and Vulcans "Vulcanoid"

Spock: It's only human arrogance that the message must be sent for man. - Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.

Part of being entertained for me, is to be able to believe in the premise of whatever is being shown. For me, if a premise is unbelievable then it's a waste of time watching. Part of believing in the premise which is to become a show which is part of a near 40 year old franchise, I have to believe that the show really is part of the same universe that the other shows are set in. this means that continuity is paramount (no pun ) in this case.

 

Even in a fictitious work, there are rules and for a spin-off the primary rule is inter-series continuity. I believe Enterprise has simply either broken too many of them, or simply ignored following them in the first place. This simple decision by B&B undermine the believability of the premise, no matter what is done with it.

What has Enterprise done that is off continuity? Give some examples please.

I personally have seen very little continuity issues.

Ship name

Ship design

Klingons before 2218

Temporal Cold war

The BORG

The Ferengi

The Romulans

The Vulcans

The Suliban

Captain Archer

 

Click for Spoiler:

The upcoming episode with a future enterprise

 

Explain how these stray from the timeline. Give specific examples, and also explain why when these things were done in other Trek series they weren't jumped on.

 

Remember the USS Bozeman? How about the Enterprise C? Those episodes changed the timelines significantly but are accepted into the Trek universe.

Simple, everything the Enterprise would have been logged and documented for future generations to study. This would make every character from TOS onwards, completely and utterley ignorant and lacking in intelligence, especially the captain of teh Federation flagship with the same name.

I don't think it was, as surprising as that sounds coming from me. A person is a definition that would slightly evolve as our exposure to alien sentient beings increases. I believe that the definition of a person is a sentient bieng.

I've lost my respect of Phlox because of this episode. Yes folks, the one character I liked was Phlox, but after watching this one, I just wan't very impressed with him at all. Billingsley is a mighty impressive character actor but Phlox is hardly inspirational. I found the entire episode, dull and unintelligent. The pacing was way off, and about the only enjoyable thing was teh movie he was watching.

Part of being entertained for me, is to be able to believe in the premise of whatever is being shown. For me, if a premise is unbelievable then it's a waste of time watching. Part of believing in the premise which is to become a show which is part of a near 40 year old franchise, I have to believe that the show really is part of the same universe that the other shows are set in. this means that continuity is paramount (no pun ) in this case.

 

Even in a fictitious work, there are rules and for a spin-off the primary rule is inter-series continuity. I believe Enterprise has simply either broken too many of them, or simply ignored following them in the first place. This simple decision by B&B undermine the believability of the premise, no matter what is done with it.

What has Enterprise done that is off continuity? Give some examples please.

I personally have seen very little continuity issues.

Ship name

Ship design

Klingons before 2218

Temporal Cold war

The BORG

The Ferengi

The Romulans

The Vulcans

The Suliban

Captain Archer

Click for Spoiler:

I have to believe that the show really is part of the same universe that the other shows are set in. this means that continuity is paramount (no pun) in this case.

Does that mean that you dislike everything related to Trek (all the films as well) since TOS. As continuity was certainly destroyed when the Klingons were updated with ridges on their foreheads.

 

More generally regarding the topic: In my opinion continuity means very little and if not careful can constrict creativity. Yes I do like to see something that links all the series together and I believe that all the shows have this, but I am not concerned when something small is over-looked as I would rather watch a good sci-fi episode than a poor one that is driven by continuity.

 

If we were all that concerned with the issue of continuity then all the Trek fans would have tried to start WW3 in the late 1990's to make sure the Trek timeline was not impaired!

The Klingon ridge thng is forgivable given that it was a makeup change. The same is true of the Andorian update and the difference between TNG trill and DS9 trill.

Part of being entertained for me, is to be able to believe in the premise of whatever is being shown. For me, if a premise is unbelievable then it's a waste of time watching. Part of believing in the premise which is to become a show which is part of a near 40 year old franchise, I have to believe that the show really is part of the same universe that the other shows are set in. this means that continuity is paramount (no pun ) in this case.

Even in a fictitious work, there are rules and for a spin-off the primary rule is inter-series continuity. I believe Enterprise has simply either broken too many of them, or simply ignored following them in the first place. This simple decision by B&B undermine the believability of the premise, no matter what is done with it.

I don't think it is necessary to justify my reasons for watching anymore that it is necessary for you to do the same. I think sticking to the subject of discussion the show is better for all of us.

As a dog owner myself, I love Porthos.

But ....

I still think dogs shouldn't be on a starship given the dangers and the nature of its mission. Yes on a floating palace like the Galaxy class 2 centuries later, but no on earths first starship.

What doesn't make sense to me, and maybe this was stated earlier, is those people who bash Enterprise every week. talking about how much this episode sucked. if it sucks, why watch?

But why worry, it's not like we dominate the forum. ?

That's true, but you didn't answer his question. If you don't like it, why do you watch it?

I live in a free country

What doesn't make sense to me, and maybe this was stated earlier, is those people who bash Enterprise every week. talking about how much this episode sucked. if it sucks, why watch?

But why worry, it's not like we dominate the forum. ?

The bashers are causing the problems, my opinion of ALL ENT DIS-contuntity issues within its self-are the fault of the crybabies always whining for change.

How can TPTB craft a seamless saga when they have to keep stopping and retooling things every other episode?

I wish B&B would stop allowing them-selves to be pressured into making so many changes & come hell of high water, stick to one program.

I hope you retract your personal attack on posters on this board before a moderator takes action against you.

 

There is no need for this hostile attitude.

I would not consider what Alterego said as a personal attack as no names have been mentioned, hence it can't be personal.

Alterego is only speaking the truth which many of us agree with.

in your opinon, remember there is no such truth to a flame, only irrational hatred.

The bashers are causing the problems, my opinion of ALL ENT DIS-contuntity issues within its self-are the fault of the crybabies always whining for change.

How can TPTB craft a seamless saga when they have to keep stopping and retooling things every other episode?

I wish B&B would stop allowing them-selves to be pressured into making so many changes & come hell of high water, stick to one program.

I hope you retract your personal attack on posters on this board before a moderator takes action against you.

 

There is no need for this hostile attitude.

 

 

Guilty conscience? I've named no names. Just stating my opinion. B)

Making rash generalisations about people you label as Bashers. It hardly matters if you name names or not.

Anyway, I'm not going to lower myself to flame back, it't not the right thing to do. :lol:

I'm really interested in what you have to say Stewey - I think using Spock as a benchmark is an ideal way to see what is wrong with T'Pol.  He was half human after all and so has set down a pretty clear guideline beyond which she cannot go. As a full Vulcan she might be interested in studying humans but not at all in exploring her humanity - she has nothing to explore!  There is absolutely no basis for what happened in Harbinger and it was written in such a way as to be detrimental to both characters. I am also interested in your point that Vulcan females do not go through ponn farr - could you let me know where that is stated?  It seems a bit unfair - I think that even if they don't, evolution would have been kind enough to ensure that they operated on a similar seven year cycle or there would be a lot of frustrated Vulcan females about  - wait a minute do we have an answer here??!! :)

The line from Star Trek III where Saavik states;

Ponn Farr, Vulcan Males must endure it every 7th year of their adult lives

As far as evolution is concerned, given the lifespan of Vulcans is well over twice the lifespan of Humans (close to 200 years), then the Vulcans living in Ent's timeframe would be still living in TOS' time too. Evolution takes longer, given the lifespan of the life-form.

The bashers are causing the problems, my opinion of ALL ENT DIS-contuntity issues within its self-are the fault of the crybabies always whining for change.

How can TPTB craft a seamless saga when they have to keep stopping and retooling things every other episode?

I wish B&B would stop allowing them-selves to be pressured into making so many changes & come hell of high water, stick to one program.

I hope you retract your personal attack on posters on this board before a moderator takes action against you.

There is no need for this hostile attitude.

And all of this because of some technobabble excuse, it might have been realistic if instead of showing her butt off and acting like a spoilt brat, they showed the inner personal struggle that her predicament presents instead of "the experimentation with humanity"

 

What techbobabble excuse? She doesn't show her butt off, the camera crew does. When has she acted like a spoiled brat? They have showed an inner personal struggle in several episodes. What's wrong with experrimenting with emotions, hmm? I'm still thinking this will lead to some kind of horrific break down, turning her into a violent grunt, showing us just exactly why Vulcans repress their emotions.

 

The technobabble excuse I was referring to is the Trellium D substance which affects the ability for Vulcans to contol their emotions. Experimenting with emotions is not logical for a Vulcan, especially a full Vulcan.

 

That's not a technobable excuse. She lost control for that one episode. If you would watch the show more carefully, you'd learn that Doctor Phlox was able to repair the damage to T'Pol. Experrimenting with emotions may not be logical for a Vulcan, but ya know what? Not all Vulcans are the same.

 

Well, the lack of a technobabble excuse is even worse, it's B&B cloning seven and Data on a whim and using that exploration of humanity as an excuse to show skin dring the sweeps, for ratings purposes.

When has she explorred humanity? I have yet to see this and I've seen every episode. As for showing skin, that's at the request of UPN.

Harbinger, and the skin showing was unnecessary, regardless of who demands it.

 

All of this confirms that not only can't B&B actually understand what a Vulcan actually is, let alone even write one properley but also that they seem quite content with cloning seven of nine for the sake of the ratings.

 

B&B do understand what a Vulcan is, you just put Vulcans on a pedastol too high for B&B to ever reach. They're written T'Pol just fine as far as I'm concerned. T'Pol has nothing in common with Seven beyond wardrobe. B)

 

I don't think I'm putting them on a pedestal, I just think that B&B wanted to emulate the success of Spock's character by having another Vulcan on the show, in an effort to recreate the McCoy/Spock/Kirk relationship in an attempt to create a formula in which to attract casual viewers to the show.

 

I agree, but it won't work if T'Pol is a Spock-clone.

 

Exactly, I believe that there should not be a Vulcan regular character in the first place.

 

Why? I believe there should, since ENT's main two races are Humans and Vulcans.

I think the crew should have been all human.

 

As far as similarities to Seven is concerned, I see a lot more than just the clothing similarities; the recurring theme of exploring humanity was first done with Data (rather successfully), then done with Seven (successful to a point, in an attempt to recapture the same magic acheived with Data) and now with T'pol.

 

Data wanted to explore humanity.

Seven was attempting to recover her lost humanity.

T'Pol is experrimenting with emotions.

 

Where's the similarity? I have yet to see a single episode where T'Pol explores humanity.

 

She mentioned the experimentation with emotions, in doing so she has expressed an interest in understanding humanity through emotions. A recurring theme as I said.

 

Experrimenting with emotions does not mean she's exploring humanity.

 

Spock - Struggled with Human emotions.

Data - Wanted to become more Human.

Odo - Tried to understand solids.

Seven - Struggled with regaining her Humanity.

T'Pol - Explorring emotions.

 

Just how are Data and Seven cloned into T'Pol? :)

I need to correct your Odo explanation; Odo was trying to understand himself and his people more than understanding the solids.

Data’s curiosity of human behaviour, and Seven’s initial reluctance to allow those emotions to show through. She’s a hodgepodge of various elements which comes across as very inconsistent on screen.

First off, Hey Stewey.  I didn't know you posted here.  You may not know me, but I post as tomalak301 on the DS9 forum over at trekbbs.

 

Second, Jadzia.  She was strong, funny, feminane, and not cutzy wutzy like Ezri.  Garak was right, Jadzia did deserve the Dax symbiont.

Greetings, I actually only started posting here recently and I'm glad to say that this is a nice place to be :)

I don't know about Ezri deserving the Dax symbiant, but I kind of felt sorry for the character and Nicole herself for having to fill her predecessor's shoes.

Jadzia. With her being in the show for much longer, the few episodes that I've seen mostly feature her as opposed to Ezri. I still think I'd prefer her anyway... she was so humourous, and I love to laugh. :)

Ezri's very cute and likeable, and she's would a brilliant fun to be with type of friend, but for romance, I think jadzia is more of my type.

Actually, I voted the episode 0 because I didn't like it. I had seen too many Holodeck adventures of Voyager and it seemed a bit of a rehash to me.

 

Still, I'm glad you liked it B)

Stratagem wasn't a "Holodeck" episode though, it was much more complex then that. Don't forget, Holodeck technology doesn't exist yet in Enterprise.

 

I'm curious, did you watch the whole episode or is your opinion based on only a portion of it? Or even what's been written about it?

I watched the entire episode from beginning to end. The reason I state that I think it is a holodeck type episode, is that if you change some of the 22nd century elements from that episode, you can just as easily tell this story on Voyager/TNG.

In actuality, if you imagine the simulator (where they got the parts from I don't know - one of the many unanswered questions, the same types of questions asked of Voyager's endless supplies of shuttles :) ) as the holodeck, there was also a ruse outside of teh holodeck on the ship itself which is a similar way to that of the trick on Moriarty (holodeck within a holodeck, is the metaphor I'm trying to use )

My main concern about the episode wasn't so much the trick being played, it's the rather quick and thoughtless decision he made to extract the information from Degra (told you I was paying attention :) ) in the first place. I think that Archer should have at least tried some other forms of interrogation first before going through with such an elaborate and time-consuming procedure which in the end only extraced two snippets of information. All it would have taken would have been a scene perhaps featuring Reed or even Travis, (damn he should be given some lines once in a while) or even Major Hayes, explaining to archer that all their attempts at interrogation have been useless. Then the idea of this method would have seemed a little more convincing.

My other concern about the episode was upon capturing Degra, they extraced only the information about the co-ordinates to Azati Prime. Now, I would have thought that the man responsible for designing the weapon that killed 7 million people would have been too valuable to simply put back on his ship. I doubt the absence of Degra would have made an overall impact on teh Xindi's plans, nor put the ship in any more danger than it's already in anyway. There would be a wealth of knowledge Degra could have revealed during the journey to Azati Prime, evenit it may seem trivial it could be valuable.

Actually, I voted the episode 0 because I didn't like it. I had seen too many Holodeck adventures of Voyager and it seemed a bit of a rehash to me.

Still, I'm glad you liked it :)

For those who hate "Bashers" let me say this;

We are Star Trek fans, just like you are. we are part of the same side regardless of ouropinions over any one show. There is already too much hate in the world right now, not to mention violence and other atrocities committed around the world each and every day.

Compared to some of the worst acts of hatred against people, namely Saddam's treatment of his own people or Hitler and his treatment of the Jews, or Al Quaeda and their atrocities against the American people, hating someone for their views over a television show would seem somewhat trivial.

Messageboards are designed for discussion between people, and moderators are here to ensure that discussions remain as civilised as possible, while making sure that both sides are able to freely express themselves in a respectful way.

This very thread is a testiment to that in itself by the discussion of another point of view in the hope that we can come to an understanding of another way of thinking - and even if we don't, at the very least, we should all learn to let live.

Stewey, I read the negative comments you added urging cancellation to the "Save Enterprise" on-line petition. You were signature number three.  You must have rushed over there at lightning speed. Classy.

That was NOT me, that was someone imitating me and it is something I am quite angry about actually. I do have my sispicions as to who I think did it, however I't just my word against his, I'm in a situation where I can't prove it wasn't me and the person who did this has acheived his goal in discrediting me further.

You only have my word for that and I have no way to prove it in any way. Not that that will discourage you from personally attacking me anyway because you dislike my pinion anyway. I would have hoped that some of the teachings from Star Trek (IDIC) would have rubbed off on it's fans, most fans seem to accept the idea of an opinion they don't agree with, except for yourself and that is unfortunate.

This one was a rather dull 22nd century holodeck type episode, so I voted it 0 out of ten.

I dislike the Enterprise Vulcans, simply because they are xenophobic, and aggressive towards other species, and not to mention slightly imperialistic.

They are the ones who are supposed to be the voice of reason in the Galaxy, the pacifist intellectual thinkers who form the backbone of the Federations moral and ethics when dealing with new cultures and alien species.