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prometheus

The Dominion

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Why was the Dominion's technology on a par with the Federation's when it has been established for over 10,000 years? The Federation's technology has evolved from First Contact to that point "DS9: The Dogs of War" over what? 400 years or so? Sp that means that when the Federation was starting out, the Dominion had been evolveing for 9,600 years. That's really hard to swallow. We've all seen the little ships tottering up to the Enterprise over the years with their antiquated 'lazer technology' etc and that was only a difference of two hundred years or so. The bridge crew often laughed at the minimal damage. Wouldn't Federation technology look like sticks and stones to the Dominion?

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Perhaps in our real-world of series production, maybe the idea was or would be, that to give them too much a technological superiority would be to make a conflict pointless-unless one wanted a war to be extremely brief! I do know from what I read in Star Trek The Magazine once, that the producers had the Dominion War in mind from early on. Just a thought...

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First, we don't know how old the Dominion really is.

We have three references to its age: an early Weyoun clone and the female founder mentioned in seperate episodes that the Dominion was two thousand years old, while weyoun 8 made the only reference to the ten thousand year age.

 

I would say two thousand is more likely.

 

Second, we don't know how they define the Dominion.

 

Is the Dominion's creation the first formal annexation of territory under it's domination, or is it when the Founders first decided to protect themselves by dominating the solids? If the latter, then it may have taken centuries for the changelings to slowly gain enough power to form a real interstellar government.

Even after the creation of the Dominion as an empire, the Founders probably moved slowly, securing their holdings, creating and/or improving the Vorta and Jem'hadar before expanding. If that's the case, then their exposure to new cultures and new technology would be very limited. (Possibly the reason for Odo and the others being sent away)

Also, given the conservative nature of their regime, even once the dominion took its present form, technological development was probably slow. Without outside threats or concern over your populations living conditions= tech stagnation.

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The Founders have no need for technology. They are perfectly content to exist as buckets of goo. It was only when they decided to dominate solids that they required the technology to do so. That is when they created the Vorta and Jem'hadar - and it was still these other races that required technology, not the Founders.

 

Also, remember that the Founders prize a sense of order above all else. Technological developments have a way of upseting the existing order of things. Technological development from a race that doesn't like disruptions of order would naturally be at a very slow pace.

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First, we don't know how old the Dominion really is.

We have three references to its age: an early Weyoun clone and the female founder mentioned in seperate episodes that the Dominion was two thousand years old, while weyoun 8 made the only reference to the ten thousand year age.

 

I would say two thousand is more likely.

 

Who said the Dominion was 10,000 years old in "The Dogs of War"?

 

Also - 2000 years of development is still 1600 years older than the Federation.

 

Further - we all know that the Founders weren't really all that bothered with technology - but good thing for the Federation then, wasn't it, that in their 2000 (or 10,000!!!) years they decided to stop developing it at th epoint that was pretty much the same as Federation level.

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The 10,000 year reference was Weyoun saying that "The Dominion hasn't surrendered in battle since it was founded ten thousand years ago.

The 2,000 year references were from the first appearance of Weyoun in "To the Death" and the female changeling in "What you leave behind".

 

Federation level tech is really all you need to maintain control of an interstellar empire.

 

As to the 1600 years of development, we can't assume the same speed of advancement as the Federation.

 

Cultural bias has a huge effect on tech development. The first century Roman Empire had people who had invented the steam engine, analogue computers, and primative robotics (used in temples or for the amusement of the rich).

Using the development of the steam engine (which, in our culture, kicked off the industial revolution about 200 years ago) as an example, Rome should have developed 2009 level tech about the 300's AD and (using trek history) 24th century Federation level tech about the 600's AD

 

Which would create a scenario were the Vulcans, still recovering from their world war, would be contacted by the technologically superior 'Romanized' Humans around the 400's, but I digress.

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Hey, welconfed, I just had to say, as elsewhere, I am fascinated by your 'what may have been' analysis of ancient human history. Vulcans meeting advanced Romans...and in them seeing echoes of their offshoot Romulan brethren. O-kay! Here's another 'alternate history' that would make a great book, IMO... :klingon:

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Hey, welconfed, I just had to say, as elsewhere, I am fascinated by your 'what may have been' analysis of ancient human history. Vulcans meeting advanced Romans...and in them seeing echoes of their offshoot Romulan brethren. O-kay! Here's another 'alternate history' that would make a great book, IMO... :klingon:

 

 

Thanks, I love Trek and alternate history. When you put the two together... :spock:

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The first century Roman Empire had people who had invented the steam engine, analogue computers, and primative robotics (used in temples or for the amusement of the rich).

 

Where do you get this from?

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The first century Roman Empire had people who had invented the steam engine, analogue computers, and primative robotics (used in temples or for the amusement of the rich).

 

Where do you get this from?

 

Steam engine-The Aeolipile, created by Hero of Alexandria in the 1st century A.D.

 

Analogue computer-The Antikythera mechanism, discovered in 1901 in a ancient ship wreck off the greek island of Antikythera, it uses a complex series of gears to calculate astronomical movements and could date back as far as the 2nd century B.C.

 

primative robotics- 100s of examples, some far earlier than the 1st century. Inventors include Philo of byzantium as well as, again, Hero of Alexandria.

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I'm a wee bit dubious - I mean, the Romans didn't drive around in trains did they? They used horses. And built arches. This sounds a bit like "Wild Wild West" a la Roman times...

Edited by prometheus

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I'm a wee bit dubious - I mean, the Romans didn't drive around in trains did they? They used horses. And built arches. This sounds a bit like "Wild Wild West" a la Roman times...

 

Thats the whole point, they had the tech to eventually develop trains etc., but cultural bias (not to mention a slave based economy) prevented it from advancing past the toy/oddity stage.

 

A more recent example would be the 19th century U.S., the north industrialized while the south remained agrarian.

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What welconfed points out, is that these are ancient, but to a point of basic thought behind, or essential fuction, 'versions' of technology of today...remember the holodeck version of DaVinci on Voyager, when he showed Janeway the arm of (exact spelling uncertain) 'Iphis'?. a crude approximation of a mechanical device-being? And what of the abacus? It's considered, at its most basic, the first calculator-that's the premise intended, for wahtver my opinion may be worth. Even if it won't get you a Starbuck's with another dollar

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What welconfed points out, is that these are ancient, but to a point of basic thought behind, or essential fuction, 'versions' of technology of today...remember the holodeck version of DaVinci on Voyager, when he showed Janeway the arm of (exact spelling uncertain) 'Iphis'?. a crude approximation of a mechanical device-being? And what of the abacus? It's considered, at its most basic, the first calculator-that's the premise intended, for wahtver my opinion may be worth. Even if it won't get you a Starbuck's with another dollar

 

Exactly. Good examples Voyager recruit.

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I have done a bit of Googling - fascinating!!! Really, it is. I humbly accept your points :klingon:

 

I recall someone said to George Lucas when Phanthom Menace came out, that despite his best efforts to make the Pre-Original Trilogy ships etc look "Retro" and alomst 50s styled, the technology still ended up looking more futuristic. I'm not totally in agreement with this view but I can see some logic in it. Lucas made an interesting point though that technology - particularly our technology, has developed relatively unfettered by major disasters etc. He proposed that the downfall of the Republic and the subsequent unheaval and rebellion led to technology taking a backward step stylistically and becoming more box like and unfinished.

 

If you compare Amidala's sleek golden ship to one of teh Y wing fighters from Empire Strikes Back you can see what he means.

 

Maybe war, political upheaval, famine and natural disasters like Vesuvius all contributed to the Roman Empire and others like it taking a backward step and causing technology to stop evolving.

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There have been many examples of circumstances hitting the reset button on human development, the destruction of the Minoans, the fall of Rome, Etc. The history of technological advancement is far from a uninterrupted line from discovery to discovery. It's really quite fascinating.

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It depends on what one means on par. The Federation had to really makes some advances and adaptations in order to stand a chance against the Dominion.

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One can well imagine Starfleet being particularly focused upon finding and developing new technologies-i.e.-weaponry after having almost suffered defeat due to the all-too-effective Breen energy-nullification device. Necessity really is the mother of invention. As for the Roman subject, look at ''Bread and Circuses'', an intriguing 'what if' in some respects....'The Jupiter 8' automobile....in a twentieth-century Roman culture...

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