Shran's "Pink Skin" terminology

[SuraksSoul 0]

Besides the obvious, " the pink skins" is Shran's nickname for the humans.

Has anyone ever taken sight of the fact that Mayweather (being black) really doesn't fit this category? Perhaps I am overlooking something here. If so, fill me in please.

[Guest Ktrek]

Not to mention Hoshi either! My wife made the same comment almost immediately. I just assumed it was because the majority of the crew on ENT are obviously of a white caucasian heritage.

 

Ktrek

[VaBeachGuy 12]

It could be that before tonight (I'd have to look back to be sure) Shran had never met anyone other then the "pink skinned" members of the human race.

 

Maybe that should be pointed out to TPTB though because it isn't really "all inclusive" is it?

[Goose 0]

Stardate:21460.9

 

 

I just figured that "Pink skins" was just referring to the human race in general.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Stardate:21460.9

 

 

I just figured that "Pink skins" was just referring to the human race in general.

It does, but the problem with that is that not all humans have "pink" skin.

[Trinneergirl 0]

Shran had never personally met anyone Human who did not have 'pink skin'. I'd have liked a scene where Shran goes to call Mayweather a 'pink skin' and then realises he can't and Mayweather says, with dignity.

 

"We're not all 'pink skins'. We're all Humans."

 

But of course that would mean giving Travis a useful line and not having Archer hogging the screen the whole show in a bad temper :P so it's unlikely!

[Stelfan 0]

Shran had never personally met anyone Human who did not have 'pink skin'.  I'd have liked a scene where Shran goes to call Mayweather a 'pink skin' and then realises he can't and Mayweather says, with dignity.

 

"We're not all 'pink skins'.  We're all Humans."

They should have included that in last nights episode, would have been great! They did do something similar, when Shran was about to say pinskin to Archer, but changed his mind and said Humans instead.. That was a great scene.

[karenjo 0]

Has it occurred to anyone that there's more than a little irony in debating the inclusiveness of a racial slur? Do we think Travis and Hoshi would be offended by being excluded from Shran's perjorative? :P

 

I do like the idea of Shran starting to slam Travis with the name "pinkskin" and halting midword, confused. That has potential!

 

By the way, Did Trip call the Andorians "blueheads" during one scene, or did I dream that? Just goes to show (assuming I didn't dream it), we all have our prejudices. Even Archer admitted that he didn't trust Andorians in general, although he trusted Shran...which turned out to be a big mistake. Good thing he didn't trust him implicitely.

 

Also by the way, I hope we haven't seen the last of my favorite blueskin...bluehead...um, Shran. He's great. :P

[Mike 5]

By the way, Did Trip call the Andorians "blueheads" during one scene, or did I dream that?  Just goes to show (assuming I didn't dream it), we all have our prejudices.  Even Archer admitted that he didn't trust Andorians in general, although he trusted Shran...which turned out to be a big mistake.  Good thing he didn't trust him implicitely.   

 

Yes, Trip did refer to them as 'Blueheads' when talking to T'Pol about the repairs. You didn't dream it..First time I heard the Andirians called that..Good thing they didn't trust them..

 

I'm sure we haven't seen the last of the Andorians and Shran..

[karenjo 0]

Just a speculation about the Andorians: Wonder if they have dark-skinned people as the humans and Vulcans (Tuvok in VOY) do? Obviously, the blue tint to the skin of Shran et al is due to their blue blood, just as Caucasians' "pink" skin is due to the red blood showing through very light skin. Darker pigmentation would obscure the tinge caused by the blood.

 

A related speculation: What makes Andorian blood blue? Ours is red because it's iron-based; I believe Vulcan blood is copper-based and therefore green. (Wasn't there a species in a TOS episode with silicon-based blood?) :P

 

And a related nitpick: If Andorian blood is blue, wouldn't their tongues be a darker blue instead of that dark pink? And wouldn't the "whites" of their eyes have a blue tinge instead of a pink one? I know, the contrast is more striking this way. Esthetics must win out over science every time! :P

[TransporterMalfunction 1]

By the way, Did Trip call the Andorians "blueheads" during one scene, or did I dream that?  Just goes to show (assuming I didn't dream it), we all have our prejudices.  Even Archer admitted that he didn't trust Andorians in general, although he trusted Shran...which turned out to be a big mistake.  Good thing he didn't trust him implicitely.

I'm not sure I would call it prejudice as they do have blue skin so it is not really a preconceived idea. However I agree that there is clearly some animosity left, which is a device to highlight the time in which the series is set and that this crew still has it's flaws - something that can be used to make the stories exciting in a way not really explored before in Trek.

[poguemahone 0]

I'm not sure I would call it prejudice as they do have blue skin so it is not really a preconceived idea. However I agree that there is clearly some animosity left, which is a device to highlight the time in which the series is set and that this crew still has it's flaws - something that can be used to make the stories exciting in a way not really explored before in Trek.

Agreed, if I read your post right, in that by the time ENT takes place all of our concepts of "race" are gone and everyone is equal. So what we may precieve as a slur excluding Travis and Hoshi doesn't register with them. "Pinkskin" I think is just what the Andorians call Humans. For all we know it could be how the word Human translates into Andorian, anyone ever taken a phrase from a different language and directly translate it in to your own?

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Besides the obvious, " the pink skins" is Shran's nickname for the humans.

Has anyone ever taken sight of the fact that Mayweather (being black) really doesn't fit this category? Perhaps I am overlooking something here.  If so, fill me in please.

It's no more racist than when someone calls an African or African-American "black".

[TransporterMalfunction 1]

I'm not sure I would call it prejudice as they do have blue skin so it is not really a preconceived idea. However I agree that there is clearly some animosity left, which is a device to highlight the time in which the series is set and that this crew still has it's flaws - something that can be used to make the stories exciting in a way not really explored before in Trek.

Agreed, if I read your post right, in that by the time ENT takes place all of our concepts of "race" are gone and everyone is equal. So what we may precieve as a slur excluding Travis and Hoshi doesn't register with them. "Pinkskin" I think is just what the Andorians call Humans. For all we know it could be how the word Human translates into Andorian, anyone ever taken a phrase from a different language and directly translate it in to your own?

Precisely. The difference between the times is that by Enterprise's time people are not scared of words as they are today.

 

At the risk of sounding like I am making a wider political comment, I feel that people of today hide behind things such as 'political correctness' precisely because they wish to hide their prejudice rather than evolving beyond it as the people in Star Trek have.

[karenjo 0]

...we all have our prejudices.  Even Archer admitted that he didn't trust Andorians in general...

I'm not sure I would call it prejudice as they do have blue skin so it is not really a preconceived idea.

Hmm...allow me to clarify.

 

Noting the fact that Andorians have blue skin is not a prejudice.

 

Stating one's distrust of an entire group of people based on their membership in that group is a prejudice.

 

We all have prejudices. I have a prejudice towards my children: I firmly believe that they are the best, the brightest, the most well-behaved of their kind. Um, well, maybe nix that "the most well-behaved." :P I also have a prejudice against eating octopus, or for that matter, anything with suction cups on its appendages. These are fairly benign prejudices. My mental red flags start going up when I notice myself acting on (or even silently acknowleging) a prejudice against a human being. It can be racial, of course, or it can be based on accent, hair style, clothing, occupation, age, political affiliation, military affiliation (or lack thereof), etc., etc.

 

Archer has a prejudice against Andorians. And that's a good, healthy thing for him to have. He can't risk his crew's lives and their mission by trusting a people who, so far, have proven untrustworthy. What's admirable about Archer is that, after acknowledging his prejudice, he is able to rise above it enough to give an individual a chance to prove himself.

 

Shran is an interesting character partly because, while he is one hundred percent Andorian and loyal to the Andorian system, he refuses to remain locked into the Vulcan/human stereotype of Andorians. (By the way, Shran certainly does have his prejudices against both Vulcans and "pinkskins.") And while he and Archer do not completely trust each other because their alliances are to different groups, it's clear that they do respect each other as individuals.

 

By the way, Archer also has a prejudice against the Xindi. He'd better. In wartime, political correctness is a perilous luxury. However, Archer was able to rise above even that prejudice, forming that uneasy alliance with the Xindi Sloth who ended up sabotaging the Ultimate Weapon. Interesting, hmm?

 

As the Vulcans of Spock's era will say: IDIC, y'all. (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations)

[TransporterMalfunction 1]

Sorry perhaps I should have limited the quotation only to the part of your post that I was referring. My comments were made towards the following part of your original post and it was on this point that it appeared to me to be animosity rather than prejudice:

 

By the way, Did Trip call the Andorians "blueheads" during one scene, or did I dream that? Just goes to show (assuming I didn't dream it), we all have our prejudices.

 

Regarding the latter part of your post:

 

"Archer admitted that he didn't trust Andorians in general"

 

I agree that this could be determined an prejudice but considering that Archer has had a amount of experience with them then I would rather define it as a generalisation, as prejudice would require a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

[SuraksSoul 0]

Besides the obvious, " the pink skins" is Shran's nickname for the humans.

Has anyone ever taken sight of the fact that Mayweather (being black) really doesn't fit this category? Perhaps I am overlooking something here.  If so, fill me in please.

It's no more racist than when someone calls an African or African-American "black".

I apologize if you thought my description was racially suggestive...however..

African-American is a PC term. Not every "black" person has ancestry or origin in Africa, just as not every "white" has ties to Europe.

[SuraksSoul 0]

I only bring this subject up in regards to the context of the writers and the audience. I should have clarified this earlier. Sure, I hope Travis and Hoshi would not take offense to this, but I don't believe the writers were analytically thinking about this in the same way that it is being discussed now. It was simply terminology that the writers wanted to convey to the audience and I think it was an interesting choice.

 

Perhaps a big reason for that is because the "BIG 3" get all the screentime. Mayweather...hardly gets a "conn" shot. Therefore, it is easier for the writers to not keep his character in mind when writing scripts.

Edited January 22, 2004 by SuraksSoul

[A l t e r E g o 9]

For the record (and in case some are unaware) the term "pink skin" is not unique to ENT, it was used by an Andorian in TOS episode Journey to Babel (and I might add used with a derogatory tone) which as we all know occurs later in the timeline.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Besides the obvious, " the pink skins" is Shran's nickname for the humans.

Has anyone ever taken sight of the fact that Mayweather (being black) really doesn't fit this category? Perhaps I am overlooking something here.  If so, fill me in please.

It's no more racist than when someone calls an African or African-American "black".

I apologize if you thought my description was racially suggestive...however..

African-American is a PC term. Not every "black" person has ancestry or origin in Africa, just as not every "white" has ties to Europe.

It was just an example. :P

[Trinneergirl 0]

But when Shran met Humans first time in The Andorian Incident, he only met Archer and Trip. They were Human, they had pink skins, so unlike that of the blue Andorians or green Vulcans, so he named them that , from the 'obvious'.

 

Then In Shadow's of P'Jem, Shran saw Trip, Archer and Reed. Again all pink skins.

 

There was nothing in Cease Fire to make him re-think his stance.

 

That is why I'd love to have seen a moment where Shran calls Mayweather 'Pink-skin', then a realisation that he isn't and Travis's dignified assurance that he may not be a 'pink-skin', but he's still human.

 

As any Vulcan would say, :P , challenge your perceptions or they will challenge you. :P

 

There are so few species in all of Trek that display multi-colour that I'm surprised that no TNG aliens encountering LaForge or Ent aliens encountering Mayweather have asked whether he's a different species. It wouldn't be PC in my opinion.

 

Alien: Is the dark skinned member of your crew from a different species?

 

Archer: Mayweather? No, Humans come in lots of different shades of skin.

 

Alien: One species with several skin tones? That's a rarity.

 

Archer: Is it? For us, the differences define the unity.

 

I think the very tone of voice Shran initially used to define the 'pink-skins' was designed to point out difference and be an Andorian prejudice. Shran's change from that term to '...Humans.' was a lovely touch therefore.

 

Weather it was intended or not, the 'Pink-skin' epithet makes us think. Becasue it's a term for Humans and 'our' first thought is 'some humans don't have pink skin.

 

Consequentially, it may make us think a little more about all labels. And IMO, that's what Trek should do. Set up a Sci-Fi situation and challenge us to think.

[SuraksSoul 0]

Trinneergirl...nicely put. I think a moment like that (aliens questioning the different appearences of humans) and having a gracious and justified comment like you suggested (by Archer)....would really go for what Star Trek is really about. I hope the writers will take note of simple things like that....things that underline the values that we humans see to attain, but often take for granted.

 

Cpt. Jean-Luc Picard - My apologies a second time. :P

[karenjo 0]

Sorry perhaps I should have limited the quotation only to the part of your post that I was referring. My comments were made towards the following part of your original post and it was on this point that it appeared to me to be animosity rather than prejudice:

 

By the way, Did Trip call the Andorians "blueheads" during one scene, or did I dream that? Just goes to show (assuming I didn't dream it), we all have our prejudices.

 

Regarding the latter part of your post:

 

"Archer admitted that he didn't trust Andorians in general"

 

I agree that this could be determined an prejudice but considering that Archer has had a amount of experience with them then I would rather define it as a generalisation, as prejudice would require a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

Thanks for the clarification. You sent me scrambling for my dictionary, which proved that you are correct: "prejudice" is indeed either a preconceived judgment made before gathering all the facts, or an irrational hatred or suspicion of a specific group -- the key word being "irrational."

 

Now, for the difference between "prejudice" and "generalization": it would seem to be a matter of degree. Both make broad assumptions about a group, perhaps based on one's experience with members of that group, or perhaps based on hearsay. Hmm, maybe we should define it this way: when I do it, it's a generalization; when you do it, it's a prejudice.

 

But seriously: when does a generalization cross the line and move into prejudicial territory? Does the line shift during wartime or time of personal peril? Are some generalizations justified? Are there times when even prejudices are justifiable?

 

I am not trying to start a war here, but I do enjoy thoughtful and thought-provoking debate. Trek has always given us a forum to consider the ethical dilemmas of our own time; it simply places those dilemmas into a future setting. Archer, Kirk, Picard, et al R Us!

[karenjo 0]

Whether it was intended or not, the 'Pink-skin' epithet makes us think...about all labels.  And IMO, that's what Trek should do.  Set up a Sci-Fi situation and challenge us to think.[/color]

Well stated, Trinneergirl. This is trektalk at its best. IDIC.