Roddenberry Trek & Berman Trek

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Roddenberry Trek - TOS, TNG, Movies 1-5

2 people sitting up front.

All series regulars are Starfleet (with the exception of Wesley)

The Enterprise is backed up by Starfleet.

Captain / First Officer = Male / Male

 

Berman Trek - DS9, VOY, ENT, Movies 6-10

1 person sitting up front.

Series regulars allways include at least 2 aliens.

Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and NX-01 Enterprise have to do what they can on their own.

Captain / First Officer = Male / Female or Female / Male

 

 

Interresting, eh? Can you think of any other noticable differences?

Edited November 28, 2003 by Captain Jean-Luc Picard

[Indy 8]

I like the idea that Berman put more women in command positions. I think Roddenberry was willing to do that also, but wasn't allowed to. He did make great strides by placing Uhura in an important position on the bridge.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Interresting, I agree, women should be shown in command possitions, but what do you think about the other differences between Roddenberry Trek & Berman Trek?

[Indy 8]

I think some of it is a natural evolution leading to ultimate efficiency. I think the addition of females and more alien species is a reflection of our changing attitudes as a society.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Perhaps, but I think you're giving Berman too much credit. I think he just has "his way" of doing Star Trek. :lol: Also, since ENT is a prequal, where's the navigator?

[Indy 8]

I really think he's trying to hold true to Roddenberry's original vision.

 

The navigation thing is just one of those natural evolutions I spoke of earlier. By Kirk's time it was determined that there needed to be both a helmsman and a navigator. The Enterprise NX-01 is the first ship out there, it only makes sense that some adjustments would be made over time.

[removed 0]

I really think he's trying to hold true to Roddenberry's original vision.

ya i think berman's doing a good job. he's even thrown in alot of homages to the earlier (or later?) series' in enterprise. he's defenitely done his homework and season 3 of ent plain rocks. if he keeps the quality this high, star trek will live forever.

[Takara_Soong 4]

Roddenberry Trek - TOS, TNG, Movies 1-5

2 people sitting up front.

All series regulars are Starfleet (with the exception of Wesley)

The Enterprise is backed up by Starfleet.

Captain / First Officer = Male / Male

 

Berman Trek - DS9, VOY, ENT, Movies 6-10

1 person sitting up front.

Series regulars allways include at least 2 aliens.

Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and NX-01 Enterprise have to do what they can on their own.

Captain / First Officer = Male / Female or Female / Male

 

 

Interresting, eh?  Can you think of any other noticable differences?

I disagree with some of your assessment. I don't think you should include Star Treks 6 - 10 in with the others.

 

For the TNG movies, no new regular crew members were added so the numbers you mention don't apply. The Enterprise D & E both have ops and helm at the front with the other stations at the back.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by upfront. Do you mean front & centre or in front of the captain's chair? On the NX-01 everyone is in front of the captain's chair but other than the helm they are off to the side.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Roddenberry Trek - TOS, TNG, Movies 1-5

2 people sitting up front.

All series regulars are Starfleet (with the exception of Wesley)

The Enterprise is backed up by Starfleet.

Captain / First Officer = Male / Male

 

Berman Trek - DS9, VOY, ENT, Movies 6-10

1 person sitting up front.

Series regulars allways include at least 2 aliens.

Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and NX-01 Enterprise have to do what they can on their own.

Captain / First Officer = Male / Female or Female / Male

 

 

Interresting, eh?  Can you think of any other noticable differences?

I disagree with some of your assessment. I don't think you should include Star Treks 6 - 10 in with the others.

 

For the TNG movies, no new regular crew members were added so the numbers you mention don't apply. The Enterprise D & E both have ops and helm at the front with the other stations at the back.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by upfront. Do you mean front & centre or in front of the captain's chair? On the NX-01 everyone is in front of the captain's chair but other than the helm they are off to the side.

Ok, when I say "person sitting up front", I mean the helm or pair of stations directly infront of the captain's chair. In TOS, TNG, and the movies, it's been helm/navigation, or helm & another station. In DS9, VOY, & ENT, they seem to have abandoned the dual station in favor of one large station. Why do you suppose this is?

[Admiral Kirk 1]

Even though I like quite a bit of Berman's work I truly believe he just does not have Gene's vision. I think Gene in someways believed in the Trek universe he was creating while I get the impression that Berman does not, he is simply interested in ST as a money making franchise. Which it is but I always thought there was or is something more to it.

[Tattoo 0]

Roddenberry Trek - TOS, TNG, Movies 1-5

2 people sitting up front.

All series regulars are Starfleet (with the exception of Wesley)

The Enterprise is backed up by Starfleet.

Captain / First Officer = Male / Male

 

Berman Trek - DS9, VOY, ENT, Movies 6-10

1 person sitting up front.

Series regulars allways include at least 2 aliens.

Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and NX-01 Enterprise have to do what they can on their own.

Captain / First Officer = Male / Female or Female / Male

 

 

Interresting, eh?  Can you think of any other noticable differences?

The characters are all simular to each other i.e Odo looking for his people, Data looking for Humanity. Also note that all the shows have at least one main character that was black TOS, DS9 (Up to season 4), VOY. TNG had three Gunian, Worf, Geordi La Forge.

[Captain Bolivar 0]

Roddenberry

- Ships are not prototypes.

- Ferengi are militaristic

- Regions of space to be explored are not distant or enclosed

- holograms are a rarity

- use of type I "hand" phasers

- ships never seem to need the use of warp core ejectors or escape pods.

- no significant arcing plot lines

- no moles or double agents or sercret operatives

- little reference to klingon blood wine

- presence of andorians (last living andorian seen is in "Captain's holiday")

 

Berman

- Defiant, Voyager, and Enterprise are all prototypes.

- Ferengi are capitalistic

- Delta quad, Gamma quad, and expanse.

- holograms are prolific in even Enterprise

- only type II and rifle types are used

- ships often need the use of warp core ejectors or escape pods.

- significant arcs in all series

- lots of moles or double agents or secret operatives (eddington, seska, daniels)

- constant reference to klingon blood wine

- no andorians in "current" Star Trek timeline. (ie voyager and ds9)

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Roddenberry

- Ships are not prototypes.

- Ferengi are militaristic

- Regions of space to be explored are not distant or enclosed

- holograms are a rarity

- use of type I "hand" phasers

- ships never seem to need the use of warp core ejectors or escape pods. 

- no significant arcing plot lines

- no moles or double agents or sercret operatives

- little reference to klingon blood wine

- presence of andorians (last living andorian seen is in "Captain's holiday")

 

Berman

- Defiant, Voyager, and Enterprise are all prototypes.

- Ferengi are capitalistic

- Delta quad, Gamma quad, and expanse.

- holograms are prolific in even Enterprise

- only type II and rifle types are used

- ships often need the use of warp core ejectors or escape pods.

- significant arcs in all series

- lots of moles or double agents or secret operatives (eddington, seska, daniels)

- constant reference to klingon blood wine

- no andorians in "current" Star Trek timeline. (ie voyager and ds9)

Well, Voyager wasn't a prototype, it was an experrimental ship, the second ship constructed from a new class of starship. Nice touch on the "Roddenberry in normal space, Berman in far off space" stuff. :blink: As for the "hand phaser", I read they were dropped becuase the audience could hardly see them. I think they used them too much in TNG Season 1 and should have been used like tiny pistols today - hidden when going into a dangerous situation where you don't want to appear armed. DS9 & ENT have arcs, the closest thing VOY had to an arc was Seven ragaining her humanity. As for no Andorrians in the "current" timeline? What about ENT?

Edited December 6, 2003 by Captain Jean-Luc Picard

[Captain Bolivar 0]

Well, Voyager wasn't a prototype, it was an experrimental ship, the second ship constructed from a new class of starship.  Nice touch on the "Roddenberry in normal space, Berman in far off space" stuff. :blink: As for the "hand phaser", I read they were dropped becuase the audience could hardly see them.  I think they used them too much in TNG Season 1 and should have been used like tiny pistols today - hidden when going into a dangerous situation where you don't want to appear armed.  DS9 & ENT have arcs, the closest thing VOY had to an arc was Seven ragaining her humanity.  As for no Andorrians in the "current" timeline?  What about ENT?

in response:

 

1. Fine, Voyager wasn't a "prototype" but it was experiemntal. It is still a distinction between the two. Roddenberry never used either!

 

2. Voyager did have arcs, but they weren't tight arcs. (ie: Voyager is lost in Delta Quad, Voyager makes contact with Earth. VOY makes continuous contact with Earth, VOY gets home; or Seska betrays VOY, Seska continues to cause trouble for Voyager.) I will admit the acrs are much different than DS9 or current ENT arcs. They are more like the arcs from early ENT. In early ENT we would only hear of the suliban and the TCW a few times a season. The arcs tightened up for season 3 making nearly every episode a part of the arc. P.S. I wish Voyager did do arcing to a much greated extent. Overall I don't think of it as an arcing show even though at times it did have those elements.

 

3. By "current" timeline I did NOT mean Enterprise because it comes before the "current" timeline. But I will rephrase completely!Gene used Andorians in the beggining of Star Trek and even in TNG but after his death Berman decided not to use them at all. This continued all the way up to Nemesis (current timeline trek). Enterprise comes before TOS so it does not break the fact that Berman never used them in any series that was a sequel to TNG, or in TNG itself. I was not saying Berman doesn't use andorians at all.

 

Hope that solves your concerns Captain P!

Edited December 6, 2003 by Captain Bolivar

[A l t e r E g o 9]

I can see differences between RT and BT, I think the differences are necessary. TOS was pretty much thrown together quickly without much thought given to how some of the things about it came in to being in the real world, I believe RB has done an excellent in being creative and filling in the blanks or rearranging somethings to make more real-world sense. My favorite thing is his making Starfleet an offshoot of NASA in ENT! Brilliant! :)

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Captain Bolivar, I know VOY had arcs, but I guess what I was saying is that they were done like TNG, where any arc episode doubled as a stand-alone.

 

When you said "current timeline", I thought you were trying to say that ENT was an alternate timeline or something. I don't consider NEMESIS to be current timeline Trek, but rather the "latest future adventure". I consider ENTERPRISE to be current timeline Trek, becuase that's the current adventure we get to see. :)

 

Anywho, excellent points all arround.

 

On, almost forgot to add, the main reason why I liked VOY so much was becuase it didn't have heavy arcs. My mom doesn't watch much TV except for VOY when it was on, so we could sit down for any re-run or new episode without me having to explain it to her. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against heavy arcs, I just think that a show about a lost ship on the other side of the galaxy, trying to get home, should be a "new adventure of the weak" since they're constantly going somewhere new, versus a space station or "Starfleet's first deep space mission."