What Star Trek needs...

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Since ENT is the current series, I thought it best to post here. :)

 

I was just thinking. Is it possible that a large problem with Trek is that the show is made too much for the fans, and not enough for the broad audience?

 

With TOS, it was an original work, there wasn't a huge fan base, just an awe-struck audience. Then TNG brought Trek back with a whole new look. DS9 took us to an alien space station, while VOY took us to the other side of the galaxy. Now we've gone back in time to see how it all started.

 

What I'm getting at, is that it seems the producers are trying to make Trekkie Trek, rather than a quallity Star Trek. I don't consider myself a "Trekkie", but rather someone who loves the show, buys the movies, season sets, and soundtracks, and visits a few websites. I do the same for Stargate SG-1, but that doesn't make me an obsessive fan.

 

I think the franchise needs to take a more serrious turn. I think the main reason the fans are upset is the lack of science, continuity, and stories that just feel "silly" compared to TNG. TNG's success lied in being very realistic, trying to be scientifically acurrate, being episodic while having story arcs at the same time, all while holding continuity. I think this is what ENT needs.

 

What about you?

[cptwright 1]

first of all, i dont think that TNG had any more story arcs than ENTERPRISE. they all have had silly stories as well. by the way you are a trekkie, what do you think makes you one? you watch all the shows, worry about continuity, and scientific aspects, you buy all the season packs, movies, and soundtracks, that makes you a trekkie. this does not say OBSSESIVE FAN, for i love the show, consider myself a trekkie, and i worry alot less about these things than you do. obsessive people are something else entirely. as for making it too much TREK, FOR THE TREK FANS, maybe, i know my friend just watched nemesis at my house the other day, and was suprised at how much he liked it, he thought it was excellent. but alas he never wanted to watch it because it was a STAR TREK movie, i couldnt understand this because he loves scifi, and action, so what is trek, scifi and action. so it may not be too trek, but people have the stereotype in their head that it is. if we could get more people to just be open minded and follow the movies they'll enjoy them im sure.IMO

[mrskirk 0]

Well, IMHO, the reason the franchise has taken a turn for the worse lately is that TPTB are trying to "appeal to a mass audience." The problem is, the producers think that the way to appeal to a wider audience is to add more T&A along with more stuff being shot at and blown up. That's why the newer Trek series and movies have women in tight catsuits or getting goo rubbed on them while dressed in their underwear and huge battle scenes with multiple ships flying around, shooting, and blowing up. To me, that's not the reason Trek has survived for almost 40 years. I think the reason is because of intelligent writers tackling controversial subjects which made viewers think. Sure, Captain Kirk had his babe of the week, but most of the episodes of TOS revolved around the characters and intelligent story lines. Just my two cents!

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Well, IMHO, the reason the franchise has taken a turn for the worse lately is that TPTB are trying to "appeal to a mass audience."  The problem is, the producers think that the way to appeal to a wider audience is to add more T&A along with more stuff being shot at and blown up.  That's why the newer Trek series and movies have women in tight catsuits or getting goo rubbed on them while dressed in their underwear and huge battle scenes with multiple ships flying around, shooting, and blowing up.  To me, that's not the reason Trek has survived for almost 40 years.  I think the reason is because of intelligent writers tackling controversial subjects which made viewers think.  Sure, Captain Kirk had his babe of the week, but most of the episodes of TOS revolved around the characters and intelligent story lines.  Just my two cents!

Very well put! :)

[Gotabite 0]

Well, IMHO, the reason the franchise has taken a turn for the worse lately is that TPTB are trying to "appeal to a mass audience."  The problem is, the producers think that the way to appeal to a wider audience is to add more T&A along with more stuff being shot at and blown up.  That's why the newer Trek series and movies have women in tight catsuits or getting goo rubbed on them while dressed in their underwear and huge battle scenes with multiple ships flying around, shooting, and blowing up.  To me, that's not the reason Trek has survived for almost 40 years.  I think the reason is because of intelligent writers tackling controversial subjects which made viewers think.  Sure, Captain Kirk had his babe of the week, but most of the episodes of TOS revolved around the characters and intelligent story lines.  Just my two cents!

:) Ditto!!!!! :)

[TrekkieMage 0]

Well, IMHO, the reason the franchise has taken a turn for the worse lately is that TPTB are trying to "appeal to a mass audience."  The problem is, the producers think that the way to appeal to a wider audience is to add more T&A along with more stuff being shot at and blown up.  That's why the newer Trek series and movies have women in tight catsuits or getting goo rubbed on them while dressed in their underwear and huge battle scenes with multiple ships flying around, shooting, and blowing up.  To me, that's not the reason Trek has survived for almost 40 years.  I think the reason is because of intelligent writers tackling controversial subjects which made viewers think.  Sure, Captain Kirk had his babe of the week, but most of the episodes of TOS revolved around the characters and intelligent story lines.  Just my two cents!

I agree whole-heartedly. :lol:

 

Perhaps we should all write them stating/requesting the same thing that you just said...I think they do try and listen to the audience.

 

I also think that part of their problem is that they're trying to be too much like other series, and not unique. A common problem unfortunetly ("Oh, they're doing a reality show, why don't we?")

[KayTroi 0]

The problem with Enterprise is it isn't truly original. A few of the episodes don't have a profound thought behind them. They basically center around sex and the like. If you do not agree look at the last episode of the last season.

[Riaan 0]

I personally think the series IS taking a more serious turn with season 3.

 

ENT as a series has gone back to the original feel of Trek--Exploration, wonder, excitement of going where no one has gone before. That is what initially attracted me to it. The series is still "new" and finding its legs.

 

When it comes to "feeling silly", all of the incarnations of Trek have been silly, and over time the overall feeling or texture of that given series has come through in a more mature manner.

 

I think with season 3 we will see the crew encounter serious issues and have to deal with the consequenses of their actions. My only hope is that Enterprise going into the Delphic Expanse isn't going to be a copy of FARSCAPE--Moya and crew going into the Unchartered Territories or Tormented Space. I will be extremely upset with B & B if they go that route.

 

What B & B need to study and "copy" from FARSCAPE is the overall writing style, development of characters, and development of story arcs that don't overtake the series, but instead provide an onderlying current.

[jdigs 0]

What B & B need to study and "copy" from FARSCAPE is the overall writing style, development of characters, and development of story arcs that don't overtake the series, but instead provide an onderlying current.

Riann..I agree with much of what you said, but don't think the writers need to "copy" anyone, but maybe take a step back and try to make trek more fresh and less " the same ol " This isn't a personal attack, and I mean no offence. Imo , As good as Farscape is, I don't think it ranks up there with Trek.

[Klingonmike 0]

I don't know, I saw more sex on DS9 than I have on Enterprise.

[Riaan 0]

jdigs,

 

I take no offense to what you have said--everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

When I said that the writers should "copy" some aspects of FARSCAPE, notice I put that in quotes. I suppose what I should have said is that the writers should observe the writing style, character development, story development, etc. of FARSCAPE, and use some of the aspects that were successful, adapting them to ENT--not copying per se.

 

As for FARSCAPE not ranking up there with Trek, I have to disagree with you. I've been a Trekkie for a long time--approx. 35 years (back to when TOS first aired), and IMO FARSCAPE blew Trek and other scifi out of the water. I know I will anger MANY Trek fans by saying this. Don't get me wrong, I love Trek with all my heart.

 

When it came to writing, characters and their development, set design, general concept, photography, CGI, etc. FARSCAPE was much better than any of the Treks from the first episode. Particularly when it came to the characters--you felt they were multi-dimensional, "real" people from the first time you met them on the screen. I'm sorry that I can't say the same for Trek characters. They begin rather 2 dimensional and gradually flesh out over the course of several seasons.

 

I guess all I'm really saying is that I hope that B & B could learn something from the FARSCAPE folks (they could probably learn a thing or two from STARGATE SG1, too). I've been a little disappointed with the writing and character development. I realize its difficult to make something fresh and new when its been around for approx. 35 years. I only want ENT to be the best it can be.

 

Again let me say that I'm a die hard Trek fan, and love it with all my heart.

 

TO Federation President VaBeach Guy:

 

How long will I need to stay in the Brig, or will a simple demotion do?

 

Going boldly...

[thayln 0]

I don't know. I'm really liking the direction the show is going. And if I had to compare the feeling the show is starting to have with another show, I'd have to say it would be The X-Files.

 

Regeneration was definately an X-File, complete with location subtitles and creepy feel, even if John didn't write it. The general tone of the last part of season two was much darker than earlier episodes and Malcolm must say, "I'm fine", at least as often as Scully.

 

The new mytharc feels very much like an X-File arc. We've got scary aliens, a dark quest against overwhelming odds and characters that have very real human failings, along with great tragic/heroic traits.

 

And then there's the Expanse, itself. Even the Vulcans are scared of the Expanse, and whatever else you may think of Vulcans, they are not easy to scare. The Expanse is one big X-File. It's like one of the old maps of the "flat" Earth that ended somewhere in the ocean with pictures of dragons guarding the edge of the world. There be monsters here.

 

I say bring 'em on.

 

When does season 3 start again? September?

(sigh) Three more interminable months. :lol:

[Surax 0]

I think that instead of starting Enterprise, UPN should have taken a break for a couple of years. They are running out of ideas and it's getting a bit boring. By waiting a few years before starting a Star Trek franchise up again, they could refresh the creativity gene pool and get some better ideas.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I actually like the "X-Files" tone that shows up now and then, mostly with the TCW. Just as long as they don't go overboard, I like having the show mirror the "X-Files" feel on occasion. :lol:

[nik 0]

I think Nemesis is just what Star Trek needed. It was a great movie that didn't conform too much to the

"trekkie trek" of the past several shows and movies. However, it may be a bit late.

[TransporterMalfunction 1]

jdigs,

 

I take no offense to what you have said--everyone is entitled to their own opinion. 

 

When I said that the writers should "copy" some aspects of FARSCAPE, notice I put that in quotes.  I suppose what I should have said is that the writers should observe the writing style, character development, story development, etc. of FARSCAPE, and use some of the aspects that were successful, adapting them to ENT--not copying per se.

 

As for FARSCAPE not ranking up there with Trek, I have to disagree with you.  I've been a Trekkie for a long time--approx. 35 years (back to when TOS first aired), and IMO FARSCAPE blew Trek and other scifi out of the water. I know I will anger MANY Trek fans by saying this.  Don't get me wrong, I love Trek with all my heart. 

 

When it came to writing, characters and their development, set design, general concept, photography, CGI, etc. FARSCAPE was much better than any of the Treks from the first episode.  Particularly when it came to the characters--you felt they were multi-dimensional, "real" people from the first time you met them on the screen.  I'm sorry that I can't say the same for Trek characters.  They begin rather 2 dimensional and gradually flesh out over the course of several seasons.

 

I guess all I'm really saying is that I hope that B & B could learn something from the FARSCAPE folks (they could probably learn a thing or two from STARGATE SG1, too).  I've been a little disappointed with the writing and character development.  I realize its difficult to make something fresh and new when its been around for approx. 35 years.  I only want ENT to be the best it can be.

 

Again let me say that I'm a die hard Trek fan, and love it with all my heart.

 

TO Federation President VaBeach Guy:

 

How long will I need to stay in the Brig, or will a simple demotion do?

 

Going boldly...[/b]

I have to say I never really got into Farscape, always found it a bit dull myself.

[Sothis 0]

I was just thinking.  Is it possible that a large problem with Trek is that the show is made too much for the fans, and not enough for the broad audience?

 

I think the problem is more the other way around. Or rather, the combination of the producers trying to make ENT both a show that fans will enjoy, and into a show that people who've never seen Star Trek before can watch and understand. The trouble is, I don't think the producers quite know whether they want to appeal to a new audience, or to the fanbase the've already got. They want to have it all, and thus I fear they will end up with nothing.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I was just thinking.  Is it possible that a large problem with Trek is that the show is made too much for the fans, and not enough for the broad audience?

 

I think the problem is more the other way around. Or rather, the combination of the producers trying to make ENT both a show that fans will enjoy, and into a show that people who've never seen Star Trek before can watch and understand. The trouble is, I don't think the producers quite know whether they want to appeal to a new audience, or to the fanbase the've already got. They want to have it all, and thus I fear they will end up with nothing.

I disagree. Any producer of any TV should should try to produce a show that both fans and the broad audience would enjoy.

[Sothis 0]

I was just thinking.  Is it possible that a large problem with Trek is that the show is made too much for the fans, and not enough for the broad audience?

 

I think the problem is more the other way around. Or rather, the combination of the producers trying to make ENT both a show that fans will enjoy, and into a show that people who've never seen Star Trek before can watch and understand. The trouble is, I don't think the producers quite know whether they want to appeal to a new audience, or to the fanbase the've already got. They want to have it all, and thus I fear they will end up with nothing.

I disagree. Any producer of any TV should should try to produce a show that both fans and the broad audience would enjoy.

Only trouble is that trying to do that, who are they appealing to? On the one hand you've got T'Pol and episodes like 'A night in Sickbay' to attract younger male viewers, and spicing the show up with sexy men and women and moments of battle... the next they're delving into the Star Trek lore, when they need to make up their minds...

 

Maybe it's just me, but ENT seems a bit directionless... they need to get in some new writers, fresh blood for it.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I was just thinking.  Is it possible that a large problem with Trek is that the show is made too much for the fans, and not enough for the broad audience?

 

I think the problem is more the other way around. Or rather, the combination of the producers trying to make ENT both a show that fans will enjoy, and into a show that people who've never seen Star Trek before can watch and understand. The trouble is, I don't think the producers quite know whether they want to appeal to a new audience, or to the fanbase the've already got. They want to have it all, and thus I fear they will end up with nothing.

I disagree. Any producer of any TV should should try to produce a show that both fans and the broad audience would enjoy.

Only trouble is that trying to do that, who are they appealing to? On the one hand you've got T'Pol and episodes like 'A night in Sickbay' to attract younger male viewers, and spicing the show up with sexy men and women and moments of battle... the next they're delving into the Star Trek lore, when they need to make up their minds...

 

Maybe it's just me, but ENT seems a bit directionless... they need to get in some new writers, fresh blood for it.

Well, with Stargate SG-1 they manage to gear the show towards a broad audience as well as pleasing the fans. Previous Trek shows have done it. Why is it a problem with ENT? I think their main problem is aiming at a "young male" demographic instead of just a broad audience. Like I've said, I think the core of ENT's raitings problem is UPN. If the show went into syndication, we wouldn't have to worry about "sexed up episodes" and all, and episodes like "A Night in Sickbay" wouldn't have something provocative as a b-story. :lol:

[muddthe1st 0]

Since ENT is the current series, I thought it best to post here. :)

 

I was just thinking.  Is it possible that a large problem with Trek is that the show is made too much for the fans, and not enough for the broad audience?

 

With TOS, it was an original work, there wasn't a huge fan base, just an awe-struck audience.  Then TNG brought Trek back with a whole new look.  DS9 took us to an alien space station, while VOY took us to the other side of the galaxy.  Now we've gone back in time to see how it all started.

 

What I'm getting at, is that it seems the producers are trying to make Trekkie Trek, rather than a quallity Star Trek.  I don't consider myself a "Trekkie", but rather someone who loves the show, buys the movies, season sets, and soundtracks, and visits a few websites.  I do the same for Stargate SG-1, but that doesn't make me an obsessive fan.

 

I think the franchise needs to take a more serrious turn.  I think the main reason the fans are upset is the lack of science, continuity, and stories that just feel "silly" compared to TNG.  TNG's success lied in being very realistic, trying to be scientifically acurrate, being episodic while having story arcs at the same time, all while holding continuity.  I think this is what ENT needs.

 

What about you?

Interesting points, but i think it's just the other way around. "Enterprise" seems like it's made for everyone but the hardcore fan. For a while there it seemed like we couldn't get away from the sexual themes or one of the crew running around in skimpy tops or underwear. Standard ratings grabbing practice for "Modern" television shows. I was only wondering when they were going to have the teenage angst episodes ("Enterprise Creek"?). I hope this new direction starts giving the fans what we want.