Ozymandous

 

 

Sex for the sake of it and drug induced relationships are a very real and current events. I know because I have a son in college keeping him-self out of those situations but even if I didn't have him as a barometer I would still know it is true from news sources; sexual recreational drugs are still a big deal these days.

 

T'pol was the best character for use in conveying that message; it was with her the Human condition (in a much rawer more natural way than with 7 imo) was being explored this time.

 

Granted it could be said B&B bit-off a little more than they could chew this time delving into areas they were not fully prepared to properly explore but it's wasn't handled so poorly as most think. There is a reason why ENT has fans, we understand it differently than it detractors do.

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AE, your post was making a good point until the second to the last word. Then you undid your entire point. You could also argue there is a reason why ENT lost fans - a lot more than it kept. And because it alienated those people we all lost on the good parts of what was ENT as well.

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Sounded pretty dead on to me. :biggrin: Some choose to overlook the minor things because we saw where the current show reflected some of the previous shows, and some choose to ride off on their high horse because they didn't get their way.

If one thing about the entire show could have been changed I wish Manny would have written it from the start, but then I STILL think some of those "hate it regardless" types would still nitpick and find something to complain about because it wasn't DS9, TNG, VOY, etc.

I mean for Pete's sake people almost quit watching because of the intro music! How petty can you get?

Now with all of that said, I liked T'Pol in general on the show, but if I had a choice I'd much rather have seen the Doctor/Trip and Archer as the primary characters of the show, with T'Pol, Reed, Mayweather and Hoshi being the occasional '4th wheels'. I enjoyed the 'decon chamber' scenes and all the other times Blalock was semi-nude, but thought most of them were gratitious. Some of them could have been done with a bit les skin and still inferred what was going on better (yeah even if they had to be explained to kids, kids as young as 12 are still getting pregnant daily and all), but overall I think the character wasn't bad.

All of the character, IMHO, could have been written better. The character whom I think was done the best fromt he start was Tripp. Too bad he had to take a backseat for awhile. Even the relationship with Tripp and T'Pol could have worked if written a bit better.

NO to the original question. I generally do not enjoy prequels. Although I do enjoy watching ENT, I'd prefer watchin ST in this order (excluding TAS):

 

TOS

TNG

DS9

VOY

ENT

 

I wonder if there ever would be TKS or TRS? They are short for The Klingon Series and The Romulan Series repectively. There's a book series based entirely on a Klingon ship and I won't mind watching one.

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You don't like prequuels yet want to see a show on the Klingon or Romulan wars? lol, last I checked at least one of those, Klingon, would be a prequel to one of the other series you listed. :)

Amusing to see some bash Enterprise becasue they don't like prequel's, don't like the theme song, or don't like the actions of a single character (T'Pol) so want the entire series cancelled.

Self-centered much?

In fact, Morpheus also used the adjective "appalling" to describe it. 

 

That's what Blalock said in her superb interview not too long ago with the Toronto Star or Sun.

 

It might seem incomplete, but this finalé has the potential to turn ever dwindling numbers of trek fans off of Trek for good.

 

I do understand the worry, but from what I've seen, even the most hardcore ENT fans are starting to see the light. On ST.com there are only a very small group remaining and they tend to be debunked by the Sinister Six (a group of Trek fans who specialise in breaking down the fanatical elements of the Brazael campaign). I see more ENT fans, including some people on SE and TU now starting to question whether it's worth keeping those campaigns going. What I find encouraging is that many of them are now starting to believe what we have been saying for a while that the end of ENT doesn't mean that Trek will never return.

 

I just can't get emotionally invested in Trek anymore. I'm not even angry at this point. I'm just numb. What is the point if the disaster twins can step in once and ruin everything?

 

I understand your frustration. Those of us on Kill Enterprise started that way too. Some people think we are just trolls and flamers. That is incorrect. That site was created by fans who eventually ran out of patience with the Blunder Twins and took a stand. This argument of "Any Trek is better than no Trek" crops up from time to time, but it's nonsense. If Paramount gave us GOOD Trek, we would be excited and interested in it. Berman is the source of the problems. I believe his contract expires in 2006. No Trek project should be even considered before they can get rid of him. I've heard about this new movie. It will be a disaster. The Blunder Twins MUST go.

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Ok, my question to you then "The King" is this:

Is it really Enterprise that has to go or those two? I thought ENT was very well done once Manny came in and started writing for it.

It seems to me that you're placing the wrong emphasis on things, i.e. you're trying to fix the symptom of the problem and not the root cause. Being glad, or trying as hard as you can to kill a show that can be redeemed with good writing, seems a bit dumb to me when I think most agree that it's these two who are the cause of a lot of problems.

It's like cutting out part of yuor stomach because you ate something that gave you gas. lol.

What doesn't sound right... the rating(I believe was caused by Star Trek haters), or a post(please not mine)?

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The results of that poll don't sound right to me. I find it very difficult to believe there wasn't some sort of problem with the poll (technical problem from those stupid pop-up ads possibly?). The poll results sound wrong to me.

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Nah, sounds about right if you think of all the mindless folks who watch Veronica Mar's. I mean it's actually promoted and all in ad's and stuff.

Have I missed the threads about this episode, was it on before and discussed then, or have people quit talking about the show?

I agree, it is nice to hear some good things for once.

I wish they'd add a different Vulcan woman to the show and show Jolene the door. I'm tired of her negativity, for whatever reason she continues to spout it, and don't think she's nonreplacable.

It's amusing (and ironic?) that a show that supposedly takes place after humanity had set aside their generations old stereotypes and supposedly looked at the person within and their abilities and not their race, religion, etc, is now supposed to emphasize that same race, religion, etc.

So which is it, are they supposed to not care who invented what, or are they supposed to point out and make exceptions for stereotypes to try to prove some srt of point.

From the pictures I have seen the inventor is handicapped, though not sure if that happened before or after he invented the Teleporter. If before I think that's a good example of 'showcasing' the abilities of someone regardless of their physical looks, history or condition more than having some 'token' something or other just to appeal to those in the audience who like to say "we're all equal" and then proceed to categorize and label people on how they look, dress, act, etc.

...why in general men pursue women that clearly aren't interested in them.  I'm not the only human female this has happened to

Some women never say "not interested" in so many words, they try to get the point across in hints or small 'signals' which can be ignored or misintrepreted.

If a guy still chases after clear 'look in the eye and say 'not interested, go away'', well then he's an idiot.

Everyone is entitled an opinion but you don't have to keep bashing Enterprise.

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You see that's where you're wrong... I'm not voicing an opinion like the rest of you are in your informed manner. I'm a filmmaker and critic you make opinions about films I speak the truth about it and it's fans! You see actually being a filmmaker gives me creditablity where as you people just voice empty opinions echoing the empty nature of your understanding of what Cinema and Television can be. I do pitty you people at times btu then I remember the reason you're so compemptable is the fact you demand nothing and so you are to blame for the sorry state of affairs in Film Today! You are as much of the problem as those willing to produce things with little or no meaning. And don't get me started on Michelle Erica Green!

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Umm, no you don't speak the truth you speak your OPINION. You think film is art, well sorry, it's ENTERTAINMENT. If you want art go visit a museum.

Without appealing to the "lowest common denominator" how do you think films or television shows will make any advertising money? You want the American public to be educated and want more than "flashing lights" then get the stupid liberal/social agenda programs out of our schools and teach kids the fundamentals of science, history, english and then later 'art' once they have the foundations they need to understand and appreciate it.

Why is it that most films that are "critically acclaimed" trank at the box office? Because real people already lead 'real lives' we don't need to see some actor doing their best to relive the imaginary life of someone else when we can already see and hear and read about a real person living that life with all it's peril's and disappointments.

You want to have a television show that discusses social issues? Why not have a public debate about said issues and figure out a way to SOLVE them instead of trying to weigh down people with some heavy commentary or kludge about what some moron in their little fantasy realm 'thinks' is wrong with the world today. People watch TV or the movies or read books to ESCAPE from their normal existance. People usually don't read or watch or whatever to learn but to take their minds off the bills that are due, their kids being sick, the idiots who fight each other around the world because someone wears the wrong colors of shirt, doesn't pray 'their' way or some other stupid cause.

Get off your high horse because you may be a critic, but all you're spouting is a lot of hot air. Feel free to voice your OPINION because that's all it is, but don't act like you know more or are better than anyone else because guess what, you're not.

I voted possible, but doubtful.

 

If that was the case, shouldn't the Nazi aliens gone back in time 10 or 15 years further?

 

A more possible idea is that, given the fact that the Nazis developed jet-engine technology first but didn't use it, the aliens persuade the Nazi to utlize this engine, giving the Axis powers a decisive advantage over the Allies.

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Umm, the Nazi's DID use the jet technology in actual combat during WW2, but it was too little too late. All of the major powers had jet planes ready to go by at least the 3-4 months before the end of or after the end of WW2. I think the Nazi's had jet powered fighters at least 6 months before the end of the war, but not 100% sure of that, I do know they were used however.

Oh and it wasn't like they waited to deploy the technology either, there were a lot of unsafe rocket and jet powered fighters that crashed and burned and such as they were rushed out the door to try to help their war effort.

Well...

I don't like what they have done either with the character and agree that 'Trip' should be acting First Officer and she should only be the civilian head of Science, at least till they demote her because of said drug use and lack of ethics.

As far as why the writers thus far have treated the issue as they have...

It's Hollywood, what do you expect? Drug use doesn't really 'hurt' anyone now does it? I mean surely she has her upbringing, the pressures she is under, blah, blah, blah, as valid excuses. After all, why should she be held accountable for her actions in a make believe show when in reality a sitting president could lie under oath to a federal grand jury, and not suffer any real penalties?

*shrugs*

Just another sign of the times.

She should be applauded for overcoming the Trellium-D addiction, not vilified.

Oh yeah, let's congratulate someone on overcomming a stupid decision they made that put themselves and everyone else at risk because they were selfish.

I agree with UnicornHunter, she's /not/ a victim in any way, shape or form.

I think the duo of JoA and JAG on Fridays will be tough for Enterprise to overcome.

Who knows however, I am just glad I have a VCR to tape these things.

* Columbia NX-02 is the second Starfleet NX class vessel under construction. In "The Expanse" Adm. Forrest stated that the NX-02 was 14 months away from completion.

Didn't it take the three months to get to the Expanse as well?

If so that would make it 11 months from the time the first episode this season started.

I think that would be right around the time of the next season, if there is one, since it would also take 3 months for the Enterprise to return.

I agree with you VBG..I keep waiting for them to do something for Crewman Cutler/Kellie Waymire..What are they waiting for ??

Maybe they don't think that because she had a few scenes in one episode or so that they should so anything special for her. It wasn't like she was a main character or anything like the Australian actor who was on JAG and died, and had a tribute.

It was a few small scenes, they have probably forgotten about her by now.

If she were forgiven for all things because of her addiction then I don't see this being much different than how things are today. People routinely get away with all sorts of things because they were a victim. T'Pol is not the problem, it's all the 'drugs' fault! She can't *help* if she was addicted, she can't *help* that she cost the lives of so many crew members.

I think they will sweep it under the rug and act like she caught a disease instead of making poor decisions, since our society seems to value 'victim status' more than forcing people to accept responsibility for their actions.

After Archer condemed so many to death, I was pleased to see that he wasn't willing to send anyone else to their death.  I respect a man who's willing to do the work himself.

Condemned so many to death? What, the half a dozen or so enemy fighters they had to deal with?

Umm, in case you msised it this is a war, at least from the aspect of the Xindi, if for no one else. The Xindi didn't seem to care about condemning 7 million people to death when they attacked Earth, so why should it have bothered Archer to destroy a military LP/OP when it meant his position wouild remain secure a little longer?

I agree that Archer is a wimp in that he didn't tell someone else to do the mission, but then again, he was told by Daniels that he was the one who had to convince the Xindi, so maybe he planned to talk to them anyway once he got the bomb in place. Who knows.

Wow, great episode! I had been curious how there were so many hull breaches but no one was ever lost in space, I guess that isn't always true.

By the way those weren't "bodies" flying into space but 'people', just wanted to clarify that for someone who said "bodies" earlier. :)

I knew there was going to be a break, but 6-7 weeks before another new episode? Ack, that stinks!

Oh well, that gives me plenty of time to work on school projects and stuff I suppose...

Since Twilight was a repeat I'm not using the spoiler...I still have a couple of unanswered questions.

 

If they eliminated the parasites why didn't Archer go back in time to the incident in the hallway whey they first appeared rather than some time later in sickbay?

 

Since Earth was destroyed who's promoting people...ie who gave Reed his own ship?

 

Why are they still wearing the same Star Fleet uniforms a decade later?

 

Okay, T'Pol basically blew it for Earth by her choice to ram the other ship.  This incapacitated Enterprise and they failed in their mission.  Was that really logical?  Were there other options...loss of life wouldn't be as bad as the loss of the ship would it?

 

Okay, if some really nasty aliens had just wiped out most of your race would you all get together on some deserted planet? Or would you maybe relocate to Andoria, Vulcan, Denoblia etc.  They participated in an interspecies medical exchange so I'm guessing they had a interspecies version of human rights.  Surely they'd take a couple thousand refugees on each planet?

1. They eliminated the aliens, but not the effects they caused or the damage Archer may have done to himself when he pushed T'Pol. Archer didn't "go back in time" since he WAS infected, but the parasites then disappeared, so it's not like he wasn't infected to begin with.

2. Who is promoting people? Well even if the whole command structure back on Earth were destroyed there is still a CoC on the ship, and Trip would be the next in line as Captain if something happened to Archer and T'Pol.

3. I assume you mean how did the uniforms last that long and not "why didn't they change the style"? For the former see other answers, for the latter, see the commnet about the crew having bigger things to worry about other than changing 'styles'.

4. If there aren't enough people to run the ship the ship couldn't continue it's mission the same as if the ship were damaged. Seemed like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation, where you would hope that any damage to the ship could be repaired by the people who survived instead of the other way around, which wouldn't happen. I don't think T'Pol knew ahead of time how much damage, if any, the ship would take with her manuever, I believe she was just trying to save the crew and the ship, wuith the crew being the most important.

5. You mean as easily as we 'modern' humans take in others of different nationality? As already mentioned the other races hasdn't banded together for a unified whole that looked out for all, but each race was still looking out for #1. No I doubt any other race would be willing to help, not once they saw what happened to Earth.

I voted 'none' as well.

As far as 'people' saying that a Vulcan civilian has no reason to be on the ship after they get back.. What makes you think she'd stay a civilian and not join Starfleet once they returned? There has to have eben VUlcan's in Starfleet before Spock because we know he wasn't the first.

Regarding how the good doctor would also not be on board.. Umm, I don't think there has ever been a ship, modern, past or future that wouldn't have a dedicated doctor on board. To think otherwise just doesn't show much sense, in that even on a "peaceful" mission there will still be accidents and things that need a doctors attention.

I like all of the characters, just think there are almost too many in that it's hard for any, besides Archer and T'Pol, to get as much screen time as they should get due to the fine acting performances by most of the cast.

Trip would have had to shoulder the duties of First Officer as well as Chief Engineer, which, on top of his sister's death and his insomnia, would have produced a number of interesting scenarios.

Interesting scenarios? You mean when Trip collapsed because of the stress incurred with having to deal with all of the First Officer stuff as well as the enginering problems cause by the anomalies compounded by a lack of sleep? I don't think seeing Trip in sick bay for a few days is what anyone wants. Right now he has enough to do with trying to keep all the systems running on the ship since the ship can't be shielded.

They have a choice of T'Pol, a civilian Vulcan, whose desire to save Earth is as minimal as any other Vulcan's.  Or Commander Tucker, who has shown his abilities and his desire.

Yep, T'Pol's desire to help Captain Archer and Starfleet save Earth is *SO* minimal that she gave up her entire career and position in the Vulcan high command to stay and help. Forgive me but I haven't seen T'Pol standing idly by while everyone else has been doing the work while in the expanse. She has been working *as hard* as everyone else, Vulcan or not, to try to complete the mission because she seems to believe in what she is doing and understands the stakes like all the other's on board.

Trip has shown the ability and desire to be lead, except when he's indecisive of course. I don't think showing him as an uncomfortable Captain was a mistake on the writer's part, I honestly don't think Trip *likes* that much pressure, at least not right now, and is more than happy to have someone else lead. He loves engineering, and while he is free with his 'advice' he understands that he doesn't have to make the decision, since we've all seen how wrong some of his decisions can be, as in the episode where he 'educated' the "breeder" being and later caused them to commit suicide.

Earth and Humanity are on the line, do we pick a Vulcan, when Vulcans aren't helping at all and they tried to actively stop us from going after the Xindi.  Or the Enterprise' highest 'proper' officer who is more than capable to command, knows the ship inside out and, like all humans, doesn't want his planet and the rest of his family destroyed.  And they pick T'Pol!!  Absolutely ridiculous.  All it did was make the show look as if anyone could do the job of First Officer as long as they have a big bust and look good in a catsuit.  And it disrespected Trip for the nth time.

See above. Starfleet Command picked someone who they felt could use logic and reasoning to get the job done, not fly off half-cocked ready to exact vengence on any Xindi they found. T'Pol has MANY more years in a command position, and while she is not part of the VUlcan high command she seems to have an 'unofficial' rank on the ship, which everyone recognizes. It wouldn't surprise me if later in the series she becomes one of the first Vulcan's to join Starfleet.

By the way, it seems like TPTB have finally realized a "big bust and catsuit" is not suitable for the character, and I agree with the change.

All the character development we were promised for Trip, in losing his sister and becoming vengeance-driven simply never showed.  His 'grief', such as it was, became one bad dream and a lot of massage scenes that only seemed to exist to show flesh.

Hrm... It took how many months to get to the expanse to begin with? Three months I think? Seems like the grief would have died down at least a little, and so the dream was ample proof that after the rage had died, Trip had to move on with his life and do his job as best he could; once he could get some sleep that is.

The massage scenes only exist to show flesh? Maybe the first one, but I think they exist to show that everyone needs someone, regardless of how 'aloof' and strong they seem to be. T'Pol has already shown that she isn't as aloof and detached as most Vulcan's, and Trip is showing a basic human emotion which is that being with someone of the opposite sex, not necessarily having sex, but just being around them also helps sooth ragged emotions and foster's that "herd mentality" that appeals to all of us on a deeper level.

In any event, there is other stuff I see in a different light, but that's enough for now.

For the record I like Trip, especially the direction his personality changed to once the Xindi attacked, and think he is a good officer and exceptional engineer. I just like to look past any bias for one character or another and any desire to have them on the screen more, and enjoy the show. Remember that this show has as many, if not more, characters than most Star Trek shows so it's hard to get them all meaningful screen time, especially when they aren't "major" characters like the Captain and First officer. Personally I'd love a weekly 3 hour episode where we could see bit's of what each main character is doing but that's not possible.