Trinneergirl

I will only be interested if the conclusion to the relationship is the end of it for good.

 

Don't forget T'Pol has not been honest with Trip either - he doesn't know she's a junkie or what effect this communicable disease she carries may have on him. He deserves way better than her.

285954[/snapback]

Agreed 100% It'd be nice if he dumped her too, but I'm sure she'll suddenly decide he's not good enough for her anymore.

I watched until Borderland then stopped after the scene where T'Pol becomes a Starfleet Commander. I haven't watched a show since and will not be buying the DVD's or any other merchandise. I don't spend my money on a product that condones recreational drug abuse. Nor do I support it.

From the Unicornhunder. KM - you question my statement about Archer getting a bum deal. In another thread you talk about driving while stoned, STF, and from the context I gather you consider this acceptable behavior. Some people disagree and are deeply troubled by people driving while impaired (in whatever manner). Those preferences carry over to fictional characters such as T'Pol.

No-one should regard driving while stoned as acceptable behaviour. What justification for it could there ever be for risking the lives of others in order to do something dumb? In the case of T'Pol she was First Officer on a starship. That meant she was responsible for lives. Not only of the crew, but also of the human race they were on a mission to save. To decide to abuse drugs for kicks was utterly reprehensible. To have taken the role of captain once she knew she was addicted and her judgement impaired, was frankly criminal.

In addition, T'Pol was not honest with Archer and was not honest with Koss. To people that value honesty that is an issue. That is truly a subjective opinon - there's no "law" that you have to value honesty. I just happen to be one of those people that does consider it an issue. And I am as entitled to think it is important as others are to say that it isn't.

In my opinion T'Pol has been dishonest all along since the Trellium. Since she didn't have the Captain's permission to shoot up, we have to assume she stole the Trellium which was, remember, all they had and they couldn't use it to protect themselves because of her. She lied outright to Archer and Trip, claiming her lack of control was due to not meditating. She got Phlox to cover for her having gone to him for help only after Archer told her he was giving away her stash. When Trip was awake for three days straight going from one emergency to another to keep the ship together, she moved repair crews out of the way to get to her drug. She's dishonest, untrustworty, unreliable, has no integrity and pulls this whole show down in her continuing role as First Officer.

Actually, the analogy I would use to describe T'Pols failure to tell Koss about Panar Syndrome is a human failing to tell their intended spouse he/she was a registered sex offender. No, I'm not comparing mind meld with the actions of a sex offender but I am comparing the stigma attached. Registered offenders are the only people I can think of that really carry a stigma in modern society. From what I gather a person with Panar Syndrome is a pariah in Vulcan culture and I was trying to think of something equally offensive in human culture.

Well, Stigma was meant to be an AIDS analogy. If you take it that way, she got ill through a mind meld that she went into willingly and then later claimed was forced. Granted, the Vulcan in Fusion should have stopped when she asked him to, but her later claims that she was forced into the meld seem mendacious. I believe marrying a Vulcan involves a 'bonding' ceremony that is similar to a mind meld. If she did that with Koss she risked giving him P'nar syndrome. I'd say to go into that without telling him was very wrong.

The problem for me with P'nar as an AIDs analogy is that it is, in fact, more an acquired Parkinsons or Altzeimer's Disease. She was suffering from brain damage and it was getting worse. Then, and quite of her own free will, she chose to drug herself up until she was incompetent and Phlox told her, when he found out, that she'd caused extensive brain damage to herself. There's simply no way this person should be the First Officer. Who's to say when this brain damage will affect her judgement permanently? Phlox? That's the guy who covered for her shoddy behaviour and failed in his duty by not taking her out of the command chain when he should have the moment she confessed.

Unfortunately, the writers have made T'Pol so morally bankrupt that it's turned me from a fan to someone who can no longer watch. While she remains XO, for me the show condones drug abuse. I find that extremely disappointing.

The first 0. I guess I'm the only one who feels that promoting T'DrugAbuse is filth.

Well...

 

I don't like what they have done either with the character and agree that 'Trip' should be acting First Officer and she should only be the civilian head of Science, at least till they demote her because of said drug use and lack of ethics.

 

As far as why the writers thus far have treated the issue as they have...

 

It's Hollywood, what do you expect?  Drug use doesn't really 'hurt' anyone now does it?  I mean surely she has her upbringing, the pressures she is under, blah, blah, blah, as valid excuses.  After all, why should she be held accountable for her actions in a make believe show when in reality a sitting president could lie under oath to a federal grand jury, and not suffer any real penalties?

 

*shrugs*

 

Just another sign of the times.

268079[/snapback]

Unfortunatley, you are right. T&A + more than a competent officer.

she should be second in charge, she is the 2nd smartest. some people will accpet it, others will hate it 

If by that, Crrusher, you mean: 'She should be First Officer, she is the second most intelligent. Some will accept that, others not', you are erronious in every way. She lied to the crew, stole the Trellium and wilfully became imcompetent to get her 'fix'. On top of her Panarr syndrome, (which we were told was a degenerative brain disorder), she chose to take a brain destroying drug. Phlox told her she had caused extensive damage. By now she's Forrest Gump!! She's certainly not more intelligent than Trip. He was the guy who re-wrote Cochrane's warp theory to allow Ent to function in the Expanse. What did she do? Oh yes, caused eighteen unnecessary deaths.

T'Pologists forgive her. I cannot. While she is First Officer the slant of the show is pro drugs.

I loved Enterprise from the beginning. I loved the friendship between Archer and Trip mostly, then I loved the cameraderie, the humour, the exploration of new space... Many, many things. I accepted that T'Pol was the seven-of-nine of the show, the busty bint in the catsuit, even accepted that she could become First Officer. She basically first said that her 'Vulcan rank superseeded' Trip's, (i.e. she had been a Sub-Commander for longer that Trip had been a Commander), then used blackmail to say that she could call the Vulcan High Command and they would put pressure on Starfleet to make her First Officer. Archer later kept her as First Officer, so alright, that's the show.

But from the moment she resigned from the Vulcan High Command in The Expanse, her reason for out-ranking Trip had gone. She was First Officer because her Vulcan rank superseeded his. But now, she had no Vulcan rank. If TPTB had the smallest interest in making this show appeal to people with a brain they would have then moved T'Pol over to be a civilian Head of Science and Trip would have moved up to be First Officer. Since Connor Trinneer is always value as acting captain, (unlike Blalock who perches like a maiden aunt on the Captain's seat and has no command presence whatsoever, IMO), this would have drastically improved the show. But we were instead expected to continue to have this civilian in her 'horse of a different colour' catsuit collection as First Officer. No authority to give orders to Starfleet or MACO personnel, even she said in The Expanse: 'You need a Science Officer. You need me'. Yet she remains XO. She's not a Vulcan officer, not a Starfleet officer, but can still be the First Officer. Stupid, trite and dumb. :)

But, with the mission Enterprise had, and the job Trip had to perform, constantly keeping Enterprise under repair meant that it was on the edge of acceptable for T'Pol to still have First Officer duties. But by the end of series three T'Pol was so compromised that she cannot have the job. There have been many tragedies in my lifetime, Hysel, Hillsborough, Challenger, Columbia, The Twin Towers and many, many more. The one constant is that the surviving family members want to know why their loved ones dies and who, if anyone, is to blame. There can be no doubt that T'Pol chose, of her own free will, to get high for kicks on Trellium D when she was First Officer of a Starship, whose 80+ crewmen and their mission, to save Earth and all humanity were her responsibility. She chose to drug herself and in doing so grossly affected her judgement. This culminated at Azati Prime, where she was so incompetent and so negligent that she was responsible for the manslaughter of eighteen Enterprise Crewmembers. Subsequently, she lied to Archer and Trip, saying her lack of control was due to not being able to meditate. She thieved Trellium from the ship's store to fund her habit. She put the ship in danger by removing emergency repair teams from parts of the ship in order for her to get to her stash.

It should have been obvious to TPTB that you cannot morally bankrupt a character in the way T'Pol has been bankrupted without there being serious consequences. Unfortunately, her (I'm trying to say a bad word but can't)-in-a-catsuit status, that led them to have her as First Officer after she resigned from the VHC, has now led them to keep her in that position for season four. As a Trip fan I am incensed that now a brain-damaged, lying, thieving, dishonest, dishonourable, multi-manslaughterer is still preferred to Trip as First Officer. As a person I find it difficult to believe that TPTB wouldn't see that Starfleet might want to know why it lost eighteen members at Azati Prime and looking, wouldn't see that T'Pol was criminally incompetent. That subpoening her medical records wouldn't show why. Or are the loved ones of those lost supposed to just shrug the deaths off? Damn ridiculous and an insult.

But mostly as a Trek fan of many years standing, I am insulted by her continued presence on as First Officer because it actively condones the abuse of recreational drugs. For me I don't care about the Space Nazi, the Augements, or the Vulcan Civil war. For me the show is now only about the condonement of the abuse of recreational drugs. Whilst T'Pol remains First Officer that is all Enterprise is about.

I cannot and will not be a fan of such a filthy message. That this once so special show is now Star Trek: Pro Drug Abuse to cater to T'Pol is disgusting. No-one with a conscience could accept such a foul message. :)

I am no longer a fan of the show. I will no longer be watching. Add me to the eight million who have jumped ship so far.

I loved this show. Really, really loved it. Now I have nothing but contempt. :P :(

Where it says what the fudge is it called?  She did not say fudge she said the word that rhymes with duck.  Where the dots are she used God's name.

 

I know Jolene shows everything to everyone but this made me really dislike her.  She may be pretty and hot but she has no class.  She cussed and she used God's name wrong and she also said this.

 

.....snip

 

For those you like Enterprise shouldnt like this comment.

 

I love Star Trek but some of the actors are real losers.

265140[/snapback]

Er, so she swore and said God? *shrug* And? I didn't like her attitude but she is an adult, as are most of us here, and I think getting high-horse about this is pretty silly. Apparently Blalock tends to joke a lot and this doesn't come over in her interviews. I'd expect her to be more upbeat and less blinkered about her character, co-stars and the show, but she has a right to speak her mind. To call her 'no class' and a 'loser' is hardly fair.

Archer/Trip. Not a romantic relationship, just bring the friendship back that was the heart and soul of the show, for me.

Trip/T'Pol. Didn't mind it. I am much more angry about the idea that T'Pol is still First Officer after her foul behaviour with the drugs, than I am about the 'romance' that consisted of her making Trip admit he cared, seducing him, then dumping him next day. There should be real consequences for T'Pol's lack of integrity and judgement. She lied, stole, made staggeringly poor judgment calls, was incomptent, got Phlox to cover up for her shoddy behaviour and was responsible for the manslaughter of 18 crewmembers. At the very least she should be removed as First Officer and the rank should go to Trip. That way at least we'd get back some of the Archer/Trip moments that made Desert Crossing, Sleeping Dogs, Vox Sola, Canamarr and Similitude such a delight.

And hopefully less of the Shadows of P'Jem, Carpenter Street stuff that I find like watching paint dry.

I never thought the day would come when a Star Trek show condoned abusing recreational drugs. But every show T'Pol is First Officer from now on that is exactly what they are doing. For the first time I am genuinely considering giving up on Enterprise. :)

I guess he built a new one.

They never got the shuttlepod back from the trip down in Desert Crossing either!

According to Quills on Trek BBS

I'll give it few shows, then stop watching.

That's what made, (past tense), Enterprise so good. Man's basic pioneering spirit. That Enterprise was out on it's own, taking risks and finding out about the galaxy. Rewatching the re-runs of series one has been a delight and a reminder of how much I loved Enterprise back then.

Now sadly, the Super Archer and T'Pol show leaves me cold. I find both characters honesty, honour and integrity free. A future where a senior officer can get high on drugs, be utterly incompetent when the ship is attacked and still retain rank because she has a big bust and looks good in a catsuit is not a future I see with any hope.

Perhaps they have been told things that the general public are not aware of.  If Blalock left I thinkthe show be better imo.

252390[/snapback]

I agree.

Trip. Connor is a lovely looking guy.

*wipes drool of keyboard.*

Now, you see, THAT's a good looking guy! And yeah, as soon as we get one like it for Scott, that'll make a very nice duo indeed!

Sorry to say, all I can see of season four is that Super Archer continues apace and Trip is reduced even more to the background for T'Pol.

I have come to loathe both this show's leads. Archer and T'Pol are both honour, honesty and integrity-free users. We are watching series one here in the UK and the show was much, much better when the main relationship was the friendship between Archer and Trip. Once T'Pol took over the show dipped. How many Carpenter Streets do we need to see before TPTB finally get a clue that Archer and T'Pol on screen are as dull as ditchwater?

As for Blalock's insult about the 'catfish eating honky-tonk', it's about what I expect from this dumb, pedestrian actress. If she sees T'Pol as a 'serene' person she's out of her tree. T'Pol is the one who ran across the acid-soaked runway in the seventh to get radiation poisoning in an hysterical fit. She is the one who ran around sweaty in her undies, desperate to get laid in Bounty. She is the one who went in for a mind-meld of her own free will in Fusion then claimed she was forced in Stigma.

She took drugs, willfully, despite knowing that the lives of the people on Enterprise, (and through them the lives of the people on Earth), depended on her. Even knowing she had become addicted she chose to take the acting-captaincy. Her subsequent irrational and incompetent behaviour contrubuted highly to the deaths of at least 18 crew.

If there were any developments I'd like to see for T'Pol in series four they would be to see her court-martialled and kicked off the ship for good.

Then perhaps we could get the Trip/Archer friendship back that made Enterprise a pleasure to watch. Perhaps we could get Reed, Phlox, Hoshi and Mayweather allowed to display their skills as officers.

But instead we continue with the Super-Archer and T'Pol show. Yawn.

Why joy of joys?

I think it should be obvious (why a scene wasn't written for it- we'll never know) that Archer requested T'Pol for his first officer, and that Adm. Forest granted his request. 

 

Keep in mind that Starfleet in this time period is more like NASA than the Navy, or Marines.

Why would that make it okay? Why doesn't Archer just crew his whole ship with untrained civilians that he just happens to quite like?

I dealt okay with T'Pol being the First Officer for the first two series because the character was good. Now with her being a civilian, with her shoddy addiction and her incompetence in command, I find it revolting that she gets of scott-free, (no pun intended), with her dishonesty and utterly poor judgment.

Even in a taxi company you wouldn't keep a driver on that had willfully taken drugs or drink and had accidentally killed someone because they chose to get behind the wheel whilst affected by that addiction, let alone NASA! I say again that T'Pol is guilty of the manslaughter of at least 18 people by her behaviour in Azati Prime. So, it's only a TV show. At the end of the day TPTB have to decide if their show is going to condone drug-usage or not. If there are no consequences to T'Pol's addiction and if T'Pol stays on as First Officer, they are condoning precisely that.

I hope that Ent Proj does well with the stickers.

Each to their own. I didn't find it funny at all. Though I thought Jolene Blalock has a pierceing scream!

If you recall Broken Bow, T'Pol muscled her way into the job of First Officer by assuming command once Archer was injured by the Suliban weapon on Rigel and threatening Trip with contacting Starfleet to end the mission to return Klaang.

Trip is a Commander, T'Pol a Sub-Commander. They are both of the same rank which is why their personal relationship doesn't affect the protocols. She claimed 'supersedence' for her rank, that is that she has been that rank longer than Trip, for taking command in Broken Bow. You only have to see that Trip has never called her 'Ma'am' to realise her rank was, and is tenuous.

Once T'Pol resigned from the Vulcan High Command, her only 'rank' came from Enterprise. In other words she could only be considered a 'Sub-Commander' from the moment she joined Enterprise. That is, since Trip was a Commander from before that time, (see Broken Bow - before the launch), he outranks her and should be first officer. And that is even if you swallow the idea that anyone can be First Officer, even though they aren't an 'officer' An officer doesnt wear a selection of civilian catsuits.

But I am well versed in the fact that having (I'm trying to say a bad word but can't) and wearing a catsuit gives you a credibility bypass in this show. There has been no reason for her to be First Officer for a long time, but she is there because of the augmented bust. Trip should have been First Officer from The Expanse, by the fact that T'Pol was no longer an officer, and by the fact that he now outranked her, anyway.

Phlox should, if he had any integrity, should have released her from command duty when she admitted her addiction. T'Pol, if she had any integrity, would have taken herself out fo the command chain, knowing her judgment was flawed. The pair of them displayed shoddy judgement and shouldn't really be allowed to continue.

Trip should be First Officer. Any other outcome is a promotion of drug taking and a kudos for incompetence. Unfortunately, we all know, (I'm trying to say a bad word but can't) in a catsuit outweighs any integrity, honesty, basic sense or justice.

If you look at Cogenitor, there really was a change. Trip altered radically afterwards. He was genuinely contrite and altered a great deal in character as a result. He is nowhere near as impulsive in his behaviour and genuinely suffered for what he did.

T'Pol took drugs because she 'wanted' to. Her very words about it in Damage were,

"I wanted more". Not 'ached for', not 'needed'. Vulcans are very direct about speech. She wanted more of the emotions she felt in Impulse and decided to take more Trellium despite her responsibilities as First Officer and the people who relied upon her.

By Azati Prime she knew she was addicted and knew the drug was having a large effect on her judgment. When Archer decided to go on the suicide mission it was her call to not take on the Captaincy. That she took the job speaks worlds about her lack of integrity. They were by the moon where they had destroyed the Xindi look-out post. They knew that if they stayed where they were they would be detected. After Archer left, T'Pol's behaviour went from skulking in the ready room for two hours, (which allowed the Xindi to find them), to hysterically trying to take a shuttle-pod for 'talks' with the Xindi, (which had both her and Trip in the Shuttlepod bay when the attack started, losing valuable response time). When she did reach the bridge, she was as good as useless, staring like a rabbit in the headlights.

Her incompetence cost eighteen lives. The Xindi killed them, but she was professionally responsible too, by her being incapable when the crew needed her most, and the manslaughter of those crewmen and women is on her hands. I've always liked T'Pol and thought Jolene gave her a lot more than most people credit her with as a character, but T'Pol's Trellium addiction has left me with nothing but disgust for her. She was far more concerned about hiding her actions than facing them, Phlox colluded and she has got off without any problems other then a little bit of mild emotion here and there.

I do not believe TPTB will make her pay a single consequence for her total lack of judgment, honour or honesty. I'd like to see her removed from the command chain and made a civilian head of science. I'd like to see her have to win back the trust of the others after her shoddy behaviour. Her still being First Officer spits on us all. To have a Trek show saying it's okay to take drugs as long as no-one finds out, even if you accidentally cause someone's death, is just appalling.

Couldn't help but notice there's not a word about Trip. I guess we're in for another season of Archer hogging everything while we're meant to have amnesia over the civilian, druggie, manslaughterer still being first officer.

Sorry, I've loved Enterprise from the beginning, but T'Pol still being in the command chain about finishes the show for me. :blink:

Four. I loved the Trip/Archer friendship. It was by far the most wonderful thing about the show in the beginning. Scott and Connor simply set the screen alight together.

Unfortunately, they dropped this for one or other with T'Pol. I don't mind the romance stuff per se, but what I'd really like is for T'Pol to move over to become a civilian head of science and Trip to become First Officer. T'Pol would still have a job to do and a reason for being there, but would have paid for her gross incompetence and drug taking. She would have to get used to asking instead of ordering and facing being left out of the loop on some things. Consequences. It would also allow for more scenes and interaction between Archer and Trip which, I believe, would improve the show no end.

Also bring back the Travis/Hoshi/Reed interaction. It was a fun part of series one and the brief mess hall scene in E2 was nice.

It is a beautifully made video.

Connor is as lovely as all get out, as is Trip, but, although I have respect for Jolene, I'm afraid the way T'Pol has become such an incompetent and integrity-free character means this leaves me cold. Sorry.

It's not always b&w movies. Phlox watched Danny Kaye in the Court Jester in Doctor's Orders and also mentioned how he should never have let Trip talk him into seeing the Exorcist, (Lord knows why not. Phlox isn't a Christian, so the imagery would largely pass him by and, frankly, I've seen scarier kid's cartoons).

They could surely include a lot of old, colour films in, without paying fees. Or they could show a bit of Brief Encounter. I'd like to see Trip crying at a romantic movie again. But, clearly, that didn't appeal to the brain-dead 'young male' demographic TPTB at UPN & Paramount seem overly obsessed by , so Trip turned into a Horror movie buff.

I've never seen the Crosby/Hope Road movies. Are they b&w or colour?