MichaelJCO

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080501/ap_en_...w8Fabmebk4wFxkF

By DAVID GERMAIN, AP Movie Writer

Thu May 1, 7:28 AM ET

 

LOS ANGELES - J.J. Abrams grew up more a fan of Luke Skywalker and Han Solo than of James Kirk and his Vulcan buddy Spock. So why is a self-professed "Star Wars" kid directing "Star Trek"?

 

"It was an opportunity to take what I think has been a maligned world — to sound crass, a franchise — and treat it in a way that made it something that I wanted to see," said Abrams, who recently finished shooting on "Star Trek," due in theaters May 8, 2009. "To take the characters, the thoughtfulness, the personalities, the sense of adventure, the idea of humanity working together, the sense of social commentary and innovation, all that stuff. To take it and apply it in a way that felt genuinely thrilling."

 

Abrams, creator of TV's "Lost" and "Alias" whose big-screen credits include "Mission: Impossible III," shared some "Trek" thoughts with The Associated Press in an interview to promote the DVD release of his monster movie "Cloverfield."

 

While he enjoyed the TV show about Capt. Kirk, First Officer Spock and their Enterprise crew mates, Abrams said he was not a rabid fan.

 

In this age of make-or-break opening weekends, the revival of the franchise seven years after the last movie ("Star Trek: Nemesis") flopped may depend on introducing a new generation to the exploits of the 23rd century explorers rather than just hooking old fans.

 

"The whole point was to try to make this movie for fans of movies, not fans of `Star Trek,' necessarily,'" Abrams said. "If you're a fan, we've got one of the writers who's a devout Trekker, so we were able to make sure we were serving the people who are completely enamored with `Star Trek.' But we are not making the movie for that contingent alone.

 

"You can't really make a movie for them. As soon as you start to guess what you think they are going to want to see, you're in trouble. You have to make the movie in many ways for what you want to see yourself, make a movie you believe in. Then you're not second-guessing an audience you don't really have an understanding of."

 

After the 1960s TV show went off the air, it remained alive in syndication, and the original cast led by William Shatner as Kirk and Leonard Nimoy as Spock was reunited for six big-screen movies.

 

Four more movies followed starring Patrick Stewart and the cast of the 1980s and '90s update "Star Trek: The Next Generation," while the "Trek" universe expanded to include three other TV series.

 

Abrams' "Star Trek" takes the franchise back to its beginning, with a young cast re-creating the Enterprise crew: Chris Pine as Kirk, Zachary Quinto as Spock, Karl Urban as Dr. McCoy, Simon Pegg as engineer Scott, John Cho as helmsman Sulu, Zoe Saldana as communications officer Uhura and Anton Yelchin as navigator Chekov.

 

"It's a chance to see what Kirk and Spock would look like done now," Abrams said. "What's thrilling about it is how great the cast is, how remarkably talented and funny and just spot-on they all are."

 

Nimoy also reprises his role as the older Spock, though Shatner — whose Kirk was killed at the end of the seventh movie, "Star Trek: Generations" — does not appear.

 

Abrams would not share plot details, saying only that the movie would remain faithful to the original while breaking new ground in action, drama and visual effects, which are being crafted by "Star Wars" creator George Lucas' Industrial Light and Magic outfit.

 

"I feel like this is so unlike what you expect, so unlike the `Star Trek' you've seen. At the same time, it's being true to what's come before, honoring it," Abrams said. "I can say the effects for `Star Trek' have never, ever been done like this. ... I can only tell you the idea of the universe of `Star Trek' has never been given this kind of treatment."

The Eugenics Wars-A Brief History

 

April 30th 1991-A young charismatic man named Khan Noonien Singh is

elected to India's parliment.

 

September 7,1992-This is the date that has come to be accepted as the

day the Eugenics Wars began.China ,under the leadership of a eugenic

superman Chairman Hikaru Minsei,attacked Taiwan with the stated goal

of bringing order and evoultion to its most important "lost" province.

 

April 20,1993- On this day 41 African,Asian and Middle Eastern nations

lead by the young eugenic supermen formed the Great Khanate of Nations

with Khan Noonien Singh of India as the titular leader.The experience

of the people of these nations varied wildly from the essentially

peaceful rule of Khan in India to the food rationing and forced

selective breeding in Minsei's China to outright genocidal killings in

General Muhammad Hasan's Iran.

 

September 28,1993 The Great Khanate attacks Australia and New Zealand

with the stated goal of" bringing genetic order to the West".Great

Britian,South Africa and Japan declare war on the Great Khanate the

following day.

 

May 4 ,1994 Shocked by the surrender of Australia and New Zealand the

previous day France , Germany and Italy declare war on the Great

Khanate.

 

June 1 ,1994 President Bill Clinton reaffirms American neutrality in

the widening war but declares that the United States will help supply

the anti-Khanate alliance.

 

June 22,1994 San Diego, California-USA,Tel Aviv,Israel and Seoul,

South Korea are hit by nuclear weapons as the Great Khanate declares

war on those 3 nations.Those 3 nations and several others (including

Canada and Mexico) follow suit the next day.

 

May 14-15,1995 The Battle of the Sea of Japan is fought.This battle is

acknowledged as the turning point of the Eugenics Wars as the

resulting allied victory fractures the Great Khanate into waring blocs

of nations.The American aircraft carrrier U.S.S Enterprise-CVN 65 is

destroyed in this battle.

 

October 1 ,1996 The Eugenics Wars end as Khan and his cadre of eugenic

supermen are presumed killed in the battle to liberate

Sydney,Australia- where they had held out in a last stand.Chairman

Minsei signed an unconditional surrender document in Beijing, China.

 

September 27,1997 Chairman Minsei,General Hasan and 59 other surviving

eugenic supermen are put on trial at the International Military

Tribunal in Paris ,France.This is the 1st such trial since the

1945-1948 trials of German and Japansese WWII leaders.Minsei,Hasan and

the rest were convicted and executed for crimes against humanity and

peace the following year.

 

August 11,1999 Historian and author Travis Mitchell claims in his

seminal work- The Eugenics War that there is next to no evidence that

Khan Singh and his clique of eugenic supermen were killed in the

liberation of Sydney on October 1,1996.Mitchell puts forth the widely

unaccepted theory that Khan and his people escaped death and

punishment on a DY-100 vessel launched from a samll Indonesian island

that same day.

 

 

GK-slang for a memeber of the Great Khanate alliance or army.

 

normal-a slur used by the eugenic supermen for non-enginerred humans.

 

 

Below are the 2 major alliances during the Eugenics Wars of 1992-1996 **** Can someone do a map ?*****

 

 

The Great Khanate of Nations 1993-1996

 

Afghanistan

Algeria

Armenia

Azerbaijan

Bahrain

Bangladesh

Bhutan

Burundi

Brunei

Cambodia

Chad

China

Cameroon

Congo

Egypt

Eritrea

Gabon

India

Indonesia

Iran

Iraq

Jordan

North Korea

Kuwait

Laos

Lebanon

Libya

Malaysia

Mali

Mongolia

Morocco

Myanmar

Nepal

Niger

Oman

Pakistan

Qatar

Rwanda

Saudi Arabia

Somalia

Sri Lanka

Syria

Tajkistan

Thailand

Tunisia

Turkmenistan

Uganda

United Arab Emirates

Uzbekistan

Vietnam

Yemen

 

The Democratic Alliance 1993-1996

 

Australia

Angola

Belgium

Brazil

Canada

Democratic Republic of Congo

Denmark

Djibouti

Ethiopia

France

Germany

Ireland

Israel

Italy

Jamaica

Japan

Kenya

South Korea

Liberia

Mauritana

Mexico

Netherlands

New Zealand

Nigeria

Philippines

Russia

Senegal

Singapore

South Africa

Taiwan

Tanzania

Turkey

United Kingdom

United States of America

Venezuela

Zambia

 

 

Li Quan (General) 1961-1995

 

When one thinks of the Eugenics War the name Khan Singh usually

springs to mind.Its becoming more evident that the "power behind the

throne" in the Great Khanate was General Li Quan.Li Quan was first

noticed as the brilliant eugenic Chinese general who lead the

campaign against Taiwan in September-October 1992 at Chairman Minseis

behest.Once the command structure of the Khanate was established in

1993 Li Quan quickly became the leading general.Quan argued

forcefully for an "East then West " military strategy for the

Khanate.The nations conquered first would be South Korea,Japan,the

Philippines,Singapore.Once the Khanate had firmly controlled East

Asia it could then move West striking out at

Australia,Turkey,Israel ,South Africa and eventually Russia, Europe

and the United States.Quan was overruled by Khan Singh who was eager

to bring the "order of the Khanate" to the West.Quan was against the

campaign but he lead the invasion of Australia with vigor.Despite the

huge loss of manpower and resources the Khanate captured the Pacific

superpower in only 7 months.After Australia and New Zealand's

surrender in May 1994 Quan clamored for a focus on South Korea and

Japan but was again overruled by Khan Singh and General Muhammad

Hasan of Iran who both wanted a worldwide front.Quan cringed at the

decision to attack the United States and Israel along with South

Korea in June 1994.He privately said "Khan Singh is determined that

we will win the world,even if were are defeated doing so".Quan threw

himself into the South Korea campaign and that nation was conquered

in less than 3 months.Quan's hoped for invasion of Japan was again

held up when General Hasan fumbled the invasion of Turkey in October

1994.The Great Khanate had to divert nearly half its army to Syria

and Iraq to prevent a total catastrophe.Li Quan always displayed a

balance of thoughtfulness and ruthlessness.He successfully argued

against General Hasans desire for an all out nuclear exchange with

Israel after it nuked Tehran in retaliation for Tel Aviv noting"Once

we conquer the world we will still have to live in it".However his

campaign in South Korea was brutal and civilian causalities were

high.Li Quan had always argued that the Khanate was overextending

itself but the arrogance of Khan Singh,Hasan and others on the

command staff didnt allow them to believe that their superior lot

could ever be defeated by a pack of weakling normals.It's ironic that

Quan ultimately lost his life in the fight he had longed for the

whole time he lead the Khanate forces-the Battle of the Sea of

Japan.That defeat did more that save Japan from invasion but

fractured the Khanate into several warring camps who either wanted to

stop the expansion and consolidate their current holdings or continue

to expand.This infighting created a valuable opening for the

Democratic Alliance and the Khanate was destroyed a year and a half

after that pivotal battle.What if Khan Singh had swallowed his

enormous pride and listened to the sound military advice of General

Li Quan?Scary thought but it would make a good book.

 

Travis Mitchell

The History Journal

April 10,2000

 

Any other ideas and/or tl's.

BUMP!

BUMP!

When it comes to WW3 in the Star Trek TL lets hope that this

http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/636/636658p1.html

is just a rumor !!

Reading this timeline of 21st and early 22nd century Star Trek events

really underlines just how different the 20th century also would have

been in the Star Trek universe.The Eugenics Wars of 1992-1996 are the

obvious major difference but there would also have to have been some

major technological (many more advances ),politcal and social

differences as well.Based on whats known from canon and written works

speculate on those differences.

I dont know if this has been posted here before but take a look-its really good.

http://bbs.simonsays.com/cgi-bin/ultimateb...ic;f=3;t=003588

The episode that re-establishes the Eugenics Wars as canon and a public event? 10 all the way :biggrin:

Any season-A two -part time-travel and or flash back episode about the Eugenics Wars or WW3.

Maybe an episode dealing with xenophobia on Earth because of the Xindi and/ or Romulans. Will Earth become isolationist?

It can be argued that WW2 was part 2 of WW1 or that WW1 was part 1 of WW2 -so I think that based on some of the evidence here the same can apply to the Eugenics Wars and WW3. Both Space Seed and Greg Cox's books tell us that Khan and the eugenic supermen were created by a cabal of scientists to "improve" humanity. Both indicate that these supermen were primarily involved in and controlled 3rd world nations-40 of them according to Space Seed. So isnt it possible that the Eugenics War in the 1990's were part 1 of WW3? The alliance (Great Khanate) of these nations in Africa,the Middle East and Asia confronting the rest of the world and trying to conquer the populace of "normals" ( From the novelization of the Wrath of Khan). The war would have been primarily conventional,as the supermen wanted a population to control and a planet they could live on afterwards- so nukes arent used extensively but perhaps in some cases. A coalition of Western nations opposes the Great Khanate( from the Book Debtors Planet)-it may have been under UN auspices or maybe it started with the European Union and eventually the US ( Archers Great -Grandfather in North Africa) ,Russia and other countries joined if they were attacked or when it became obvious that Khan would not be happy with just the 3rd world. The TNG book Debtors Planet,which Cox pays homage to by including Ralph Offenhouse in his books,indicates a public Eugenics War with the Great Khanate invading Australia and the US aircraft carrier USS Enterprise being destroyed in the Battle of the Sea of Japan-the turning point of the war. Eventually the nations controlled by the supermen are defeated and the free world wins. But what does the world look like from 1996-2053? The coutries in Asia and Africa that were controlled by the eugenic supermen would have been a mixed bag,but many would have been deeply influenced by the supermen ideology of superiority and conquering the world to accomplish this. The novel Federation did a great job of making the Colonel Green ( Hitler ) and the Optimum Movement ( Nazis) the result of the Eugenics Wars. An arrogant group of men,who like the Supermen,think they know best and try to conquer the world which leads to part 2 of WW3-probably some conventional wars then a nuclear holocaust.This of course was surplanted by Star Trek First Contact which told us that WW3 involved the ECON-Eastern Coalition of Nations. Perfect ! I'snt it possible that this ECON is a rump group of nations that were part of the old Khanate in the 1990's? They leave the New UN ( which the US took a huge role in founding after addressing its huge social problems in the 2020's) sometime after 2036. The Econ comes into conflict with the New UN and that percipitates a nuclear holcaust circa 2053,that kills 600 million and also involves the US and apparently ( according to First Contact Novelization) destroys at least 2 American cities we never hear about in Star Trek - NY and DC. So after all that rambling just to repeat- The Eugenics Wars and WW3 could be directly linked- just depends on how you look at it- the Eugenics Wars as part 1 of WW3 or WW3 as part 2 of the Eugenics Wars. Either way everything we have in canon and novelizations indicates that both events happened-but are distinct and involved different players and events. Making them the exact same war in the 21st century would drive nuts like me completley crazy !!!

I really have to say that ,despite the fact I think its being well done, my other big disappointment with Enterprise is the the Xindi storyline. I was hoping that Enterprise would have a Sol-Alpha Centauri- Wolf 359-Vulcan-Tellar-Andoria-Axanar- Romulans type of axis.The shows where it did were among my favorites. Hopefully we will see more of these in years 4-7. The Xindi storyline is a good precursor to forming the Federation as well-if it is done right.

---Starfleet Academy insignia says 2161 however, the Star Trek Encyclopedia says that Starfleet was 'incorporated' when the Federation was founded. What I think is that 'Starfleet' on Enterprise is still UESPA but the nickname Starfleet has come about and fallen into common use. So when the Federation was founded Starfleet was incorporated under the name Starfleet as UESPA would no longer be appropriate.---

This is actually one of my major nits with Enterprise. The show started only 1 year after the United Earth government was formed in 2150 and they are already calling it Starfleet? It would have been a major nod to canon and old school Trekkers if they called it UESPA. UESPA stands for United Earth Space Probe Agency and it was mentioned a few times in TOS as the operating authority of the Enterprise ( Tomorrow is Yesterday is notable episode where its mentioned,and the US pilot from the 1960's Kirk says it to is shocked to hear United Earth

PS I also heard at a Star Trek convention that a UESPA patch was included in a glass case of patches in that bar shown in the Enterprise episode First Flight

--The daedalus-class (what ever it is or whatever it looks like) comes later in the timeline. ----

The daedalus class is an early star ship.It was mentioned as being the type of ship that was crashed-landed on the TNG episode where Troi,Data and O'Brien were "possessed" by the group of disembodied prisoners.According to the Star Trek chronology book they were decomissioned in 2196-so that would put them after Enterprise. They look like a standard Starfleet ship except the primary section is actually a sphere and the enginerring section is log shaped. It honestly looks more primative than the enterprise-it would be cool if they made the Enterprise look more retro.

The Eugenics Wars-A Brief History

April 30th 1991-A young charismatic man named Khan Noonien Singh is

elected to India's parliment.

September 7,1992-This is the date that has come to be accepted as the

day the Eugenics Wars began.China ,under the leadership of a eugenic

superman Chairman Hikaru Minsei,attacked Taiwan with the stated goal

of bringing order and evoultion to its most important "lost" province.

April 20,1993- On this day 41 African,Asian and Middle Eastern nations

lead by the young eugenic supermen formed the Great Khanate of Nations

with Khan Noonien Singh of India as the titular leader.The experience

of the people of these nations varied wildly from the essentially

peaceful rule of Khan in India to the food rationing and forced

selective breeding in Minsei's China to outright genocidal killings in

General Muhammad Hasan's Iran.

September 28,1993 The Great Khanate attacks Australia and New Zealand

with the stated goal of" bringing genetic order to the West".Great

Britian,South Africa and Japan declare war on the Great Khanate the

following day.

May 4 ,1994 Shocked by the surrender of Australia and New Zealand the

previous day France , Germany and Italy declare war on the Great

Khanate.

June 1 ,1994 President Bill Clinton reaffirms American neutrality in

the widening war but declares that the United States will help supply

the anti-Khanate alliance.

June 22,1994 San Diego, California-USA,Tel Aviv,Israel and Seoul,

South Korea are hit by nuclear weapons as the Great Khanate declares

war on those 3 nations.Those 3 nations and several others (including

Canada and Mexico) follow suit the next day.

May 14-15,1995 The Battle of the Sea of Japan is fought.This battle is

acknowledged as the turning point of the Eugenics Wars as the

resulting allied victory fractures the Great Khanate into waring blocs

of nations.The American aircraft carrrier U.S.S Enterprise-CVN 65 is

destroyed in this battle.

October 1 ,1996 The Eugenics Wars end as Khan and his cadre of eugenic

supermen are presumed killed in the battle to liberate

Sydney,Australia- where they had held out in a last stand.Chairman

Minsei signed an unconditional surrender document in Beijing, China.

September 27,1997 Chairman Minsei,General Hasan and 59 other surviving

eugenic supermen are put on trial at the International Military

Tribunal in Paris ,France.This is the 1st such trial since the

1945-1948 trials of German and Japansese WWII leaders.Minsei,Hasan and

the rest were convicted and executed for crimes against humanity and

peace the following year.

August 11,1999 Historian and author Travis Mitchell claims in his

seminal work- The Eugenics War that there is next to no evidence that

Khan Singh and his clique of eugenic supermen were killed in the

liberation of Sydney on October 1,1996.Mitchell puts forth the widely

unaccepted theory that Khan and his people escaped death and

punishment on a DY-100 vessel launched from a samll Indonesian island

that same day.

GK-slang for a memeber of the Great Khanate alliance or army.

normal-a slur used by the eugenic supermen for non-enginerred humans.

Below are the 2 major alliances during the Eugenics Wars of 1992-1996 **** Can someone do a map ?*****

The Great Khanate of Nations 1993-1996

Afghanistan

Algeria

Armenia

Azerbaijan

Bahrain

Bangladesh

Bhutan

Burundi

Brunei

Cambodia

Chad

China

Cameroon

Congo

Egypt

Eritrea

Gabon

India

Indonesia

Iran

Iraq

Jordan

North Korea

Kuwait

Laos

Lebanon

Libya

Malaysia

Mali

Mongolia

Morocco

Myanmar

Nepal

Niger

Oman

Pakistan

Qatar

Rwanda

Saudi Arabia

Somalia

Sri Lanka

Syria

Tajkistan

Thailand

Tunisia

Turkmenistan

Uganda

United Arab Emirates

Uzbekistan

Vietnam

Yemen

The Democratic Alliance 1993-1996

Australia

Angola

Belgium

Brazil

Canada

Democratic Republic of Congo

Denmark

Djibouti

Ethiopia

France

Germany

Ireland

Israel

Italy

Jamaica

Japan

Kenya

South Korea

Liberia

Mauritana

Mexico

Netherlands

New Zealand

Nigeria

Philippines

Russia

Senegal

Singapore

South Africa

Taiwan

Tanzania

Turkey

United Kingdom

United States of America

Venezuela

Zambia

Li Quan (General) 1961-1995

When one thinks of the Eugenics War the name Khan Singh usually

springs to mind.Its becoming more evident that the "power behind the

throne" in the Great Khanate was General Li Quan.Li Quan was first

noticed as the brilliant eugenic Chinese general who lead the

campaign against Taiwan in September-October 1992 at Chairman Minseis

behest.Once the command structure of the Khanate was established in

1993 Li Quan quickly became the leading general.Quan argued

forcefully for an "East then West " military strategy for the

Khanate.The nations conquered first would be South Korea,Japan,the

Philippines,Singapore.Once the Khanate had firmly controlled East

Asia it could then move West striking out at

Australia,Turkey,Israel ,South Africa and eventually Russia, Europe

and the United States.Quan was overruled by Khan Singh who was eager

to bring the "order of the Khanate" to the West.Quan was against the

campaign but he lead the invasion of Australia with vigor.Despite the

huge loss of manpower and resources the Khanate captured the Pacific

superpower in only 7 months.After Australia and New Zealand's

surrender in May 1994 Quan clamored for a focus on South Korea and

Japan but was again overruled by Khan Singh and General Muhammad

Hasan of Iran who both wanted a worldwide front.Quan cringed at the

decision to attack the United States and Israel along with South

Korea in June 1994.He privately said "Khan Singh is determined that

we will win the world,even if were are defeated doing so".Quan threw

himself into the South Korea campaign and that nation was conquered

in less than 3 months.Quan's hoped for invasion of Japan was again

held up when General Hasan fumbled the invasion of Turkey in October

1994.The Great Khanate had to divert nearly half its army to Syria

and Iraq to prevent a total catastrophe.Li Quan always displayed a

balance of thoughtfulness and ruthlessness.He successfully argued

against General Hasans desire for an all out nuclear exchange with

Israel after it nuked Tehran in retaliation for Tel Aviv noting"Once

we conquer the world we will still have to live in it".However his

campaign in South Korea was brutal and civilian causalities were

high.Li Quan had always argued that the Khanate was overextending

itself but the arrogance of Khan Singh,Hasan and others on the

command staff didnt allow them to believe that their superior lot

could ever be defeated by a pack of weakling normals.It's ironic that

Quan ultimately lost his life in the fight he had longed for the

whole time he lead the Khanate forces-the Battle of the Sea of

Japan.That defeat did more that save Japan from invasion but

fractured the Khanate into several warring camps who either wanted to

stop the expansion and consolidate their current holdings or continue

to expand.This infighting created a valuable opening for the

Democratic Alliance and the Khanate was destroyed a year and a half

after that pivotal battle.What if Khan Singh had swallowed his

enormous pride and listened to the sound military advice of General

Li Quan?Scary thought but it would make a good book.

Travis Mitchell

The History Journal

April 10,2000

Any other ideas and/or tl's.

From: Jay and Ruth (MarinerJRMB@mchsi.com)

Subject: Timeline Challenge #1: The Eugenics Wars

View this article only

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech

Date: 2003-05-28 16:34:59 PST

I have a challenge for those of us primarily interested in the "historicity"

of Star Trek.

I am primarily interested in the individual fan's interpretation of various

key or turning points in Star Trek's fictional history.

Challenge #1: The Eugenics Wars-

We know from the episode "Space Seed" and Star Trek The Wrath of Khan that

Eugenics Wars were fought between 1992 and 1996. Key figures in this

conflict were possibly quite numerous, but only one figure has a resounding

"choke-hold" on the historicity of this subject, Khan Noonien Singh.

We have prescious few on-screen statements regarding this global conflict.

We know that from 1992-1996, Singh ruled one-quarter of planet Earth from

Asia to the Middle East, and the he was the most powerful and influential of

an unknown number of eugenically engineered supermen. We know from The

Animated Series that a Stavos Keneclius played some part during this

conflict but what exactly is open for speculation. We know that sometime

during 1993, eugenics supermen siezed power seemingly at once on Earth in

some forty nations. It was at this point, that what has become known as the

Eugenics Wars began, and according to Spock's own words on the subject this

was "the era of the last of your so-called world wars" with "whole

populations being bombed out of existence" with Earth "on the verge of

another Dark Ages"

Technologically, we know that during this period, the DY-100 Class spaceship

was the most advanced space vessel of the time. We know that following the

ceasation of hostilities during the war, Khan Singh either escaped aboard

S.S. Botany Bay or was forcibly exiled from Earth orbit at least and

recovered at least two centuries later by Enterprise (NCC-1701).

Onto the challenge. Come up with a speculative timeline detailing the events

leading up the Eugenics Wars and their conclusion. You may use any reference

materials at your disposal, but I would strongly urge you to limit these

resources to Original Series-Era materials, as we have all clearly seen, the

relevance of this fictional conflict has been virtually ignored by TNG-Era

materials and beyond even into Enterprise. Also, any professionally

published materials such as the The Rise of Khan Noonien Singh by Greg Cox

would be considered an exhaustive treatise on this subject and should NOT be

considered a reference for this discussion. I simply want more of a fandom

(you and I) speculation on this subject.

You may as be "long-winded" as you can possibly be or as exhaustive as you

can get within a speculative timeline. My conditions are such that I am not

overly concered with canonical issues. I simply want to the fan's

interpretation of these events. Also, feel free to use my email provided

here with any and all comments, arguments, orspeculations best covered

outside of this forum.

That being said, let the timelines begin!

Enterprise has a penchant for dropping old movie names in its epsiodes.The latest movie night reference was Rosemarys Baby.So it seems safe to assume that many of the crew (and humans in general) have seen old movies like Invasion of Body Snatchers ,War of the Worlds,Independence Day,V,X-Files etc etc.Movies that show the Earth invaded or menaced by hostile aliens -a reality that was never met until the Xindi attack in 2153. Is it possible that such an attack could have driven a deep and long lasting isolationist/xenophobic streak into Earths population that could have prevented the formation of Federation and is still present in the 24th century when you consider Section 31 . It seems to me that segements Earth society would still be far less liberal and progressive in the 22nd century than by time of 24th-the Xindi attack would underline that it seems. Any and all ideas appreciated.

This thread was inspired by the Enterprise 3rd season premire episode

the Xindi.The crew discovers and we are shown that the new

villians-the Xindi-that attacked Earth are in fact a race made up of 5

sentient species. They are-Insectoid,Aquatic,Reptillian,Mammalian and

Humanoid.The Xinidi have envolved to the point where they coporate but

each species considers itself and its viewpoints the dominant

ones.But what if? What if 5 seperate sentient species

evolved on Earth didnt wipe each other out and came to known as the

Terrans. They evolved from the same types of Earth species with the

Insectoids being the oldest.The Aquatic species from Dolphins.The

Reptillians from a Dinosaur species.The Mammalian species from a form

of Apes.The Humanoid species fairly similar to Homo Sapiens and of

course the new kids on the block.How would Earth history have panned

out with 5 sentient species on the planet?Where would the different

species pre-dominate? Who would meet and interact first? Alliances?

Enemies? Cultures? Intermarriage? Reality Shows? What type of

Terran civilization would the Vulcans visiting Earth in 2063

encounter or would they have chosen to contact Earth years earlier?

Any and all ideas appreciated.

In retrospect Kirk and company(which the notable exception of Stiles)

took it extraordinarily well when it was revealed that Romulans were

descended from Vulcans in TOS episode Balance of Terror.However some

of the less than honest behavior of some Vulcans on Enterprise has

me thinking-again- wouldnt this revelation have been the biggest

whopper of them all? Given the backstory of where the Romulans came

from(mass exodus from Vulcan to escape the Surak reformation circa-

300 AD) and the fact that T'Pol was aware of their existence are we

suppose to believe that the Vulcans had no idea who the Romulans were?

I'm a big fan of canon and continutiy but I have always thought that

the idea that humans and Romulans would never have seen each other-

not even once-for the whole war was hard to believe.But the idea that

the Vulcans had no idea who the Romulans were is even more unlikely.

But What If

Suppose this revelation was enough to damage the relationship between

Vulcan and Earth in 2266? Or suppose the revelation was made during

the Earth -Romulan war or shortly after-would Earth have trusted

Vulcan enough to found the Federation?Any and all ideas appreciated.

Humanity was lucky in the Star Trek universe.Its first contact with alien life was with a peaceful species that while arrogant and somewhat elusive had basically good intentions.

But What If?

Suppose that in addition to the Vulcan ship, the warp signature from the Phoenix was detceted by an Andorian ship passing near the Sol system.When the Andorian ship gets to Earth it realizes that the Vulcans have set down near the source of the warp signature and they decide to set down on the opposite side of the planet.The Andorians arent gonna let those damn Vulcans recruit another species to their side as with Coridan and so many others.What the Andorians dont realize is that they have set down in territory that is still partially controlled by the ECON(Eastern Coalition of Nations-Chian,Japan, Australia???)The local leaders are advised that a meddlesome race has made contact with their bitter enemies in the United States.The Andorians agree to help these primitive Human pink-skins do what it takes to keep the Vulcans and the Americans/New United Nations from controlling thier planet.

What happens next on an Earth still divided and injured by World War III becomes embroilled in a long term dispute between Vulcan and Andoria?Does the Earth ever become united?Does it end up on Vulcans side?Andoria's? or does it ultimately end up deeply isolationist and embittered or expansionist and arrogant-forming an alliance with the Klingons or the Romulans? Any and all ideas appreciated.

These are both from websites. However my points about the term UESPA is that #1 its is canon because it was mentioned in the show and #2 I think it makes more "historical" sense to use this term than Starfleet in Enterprise based on what we know about Earth history in the late 21st-22nd centuries(canon and otherwise) #3- I know this will never happen but I will still watch and enjoy Enterprise .

Here's another one

Dadelus Class - NCC-100 (2146-2196)

This is the only class of vessel that actually predated the founding of the Federation and Starfleet. The United Earth Space Probe Agency (UESPA), the forerunner to Starfleet Command, constructed the USS Dadelus registry number NCC-3000 after significant technological advances made the current Explorer Class vessels obsolete. Initially, very few of these vessels were constructed, due to their large size and cost. During the Romulan Wars (2156-2160), an alliance was formed between several space faring races to push back the Romulan incursion. More vessels of this class were able to be created since the costs and materials could be spread out over four different star systems. After the Battle of Cheron and its ensuing peace treaty, the six remaining Dadelus Class vessels were overhauled and refit for deep space exploration, the first of the heavy cruiser class. They became the cornerstone of Starfleet, the agency that replaced the UESPA after the incorporation of the United Federation of Planets. Several more ships of this class were constructed over the next twenty years, although each member planet preferred to have its own ships serving the fleet instead of integrated crew members. The Dadelus Class served as the front line for the Federation defensively and as first contact vessels. In 2196, Starfleet Command gave the order to decommission the vessels due to their advancing age and obsolete technology. They were replaced with the newer Baton Rouge Class.

Here is a little blurb I found online that makes good use of the UESPA name

Home planet: Terra (Earth)

Planet class: M

Historical Setting: After the invention of warp drive by Zefram Cochrane in the mid-21st century, humans quite suddenly and unexpectedly explode into interstellar space. Although Earth was still recovering from World War III and the post-nuclear holocaust, there was a fairly self-sufficient human society existing meagerly among the nine planetary systems of the Sol star system. There was just enough economic and social infrastructure to serve as a foundation on which to rebuild their society.

Earth was a shaken world but it's survivors were a strong and tired of war. Those who had fed the racism and hatred were dead. When word spread of first contact with the Vulcans in North America, Earth was ready for something new. Humanity's movement into the stars was long overdue. This welcoming into the new frontier was perhapes the greatest gift the Vulcans could have given Earth at that moment in history.

Soon the Martian Colonies united under their new constitution to form the Martion Union. The MU came to Earth with mass construction crews and relief teams. The Vulcan's provided the transportation desparately needed to unite the two planets. The Vulcans also showed humans new techniques in cleansing the planet of its nuclear and industrial waste. Together, the Vulcan science teams and the Martian relief crews turned Earth around faster than anyone could have expected. In time, the Vulcans invited a human delegation, led by Dr. Cochrane, to the Vulcan homeworld to formalize relations between the two star systems.

The surviving Earth governments, realizing that they needed to centralize, worked with what was left of the New United Nations to create the United Earth Government. This was more than just a treaty between nations. It was a unification of government on a scale unprecedented in all of human history. The Vulcan's neutral and logical views were absolutely crucial in these negotiations.

Although extremely successful and relatively swift, Earth's healing efforts were by no means instantaneous or homogeneous. For years, many regions remained barbaric and in near anarchy. And it was almost twenty-five years before the UE relief teams managed to restore order to all of the war torn regions.

The year 2173 saw the incorporation of humanities first united space effort: The United Earth Space Probe Agency. Once it was in place, nothing could stop Earth's movement into the final frontier. The first colonies on Alpha Centauri had already been in place for a decade. So, when UESPA went into operation, colonists were lining up for miles around the new spaceports in place all over the planet.

San Francisco had been one of the few major cities that had managed to remain relatively untouched thoughout WWIII. Therefore, United Earth headquarters, in Paris, set UESPA headquarters was in San Francisco along with the largest of their new launch centers and Earth Force headquarters. Earth Force was the new united military branch of the planet whose main goal in the early days was to coordinate relief efforts.

With the launch of the first interplanetary exploratory ship, the SS Valiant, Earth marked its entrance into a new renaissance of human thought and culture. The new shipyards on Luna and Mars could not keep up with the need for ships. Many private ship yards opened up boosting both the space movement andthe economy. Humans were ready to boldly expand beyond their solar system and nothing would stop them.

Colonies popped up on every planet, planetoid, moon, and asteroid that humans could find in more than 50 cubic light years. In fact, UESPA couldn't keep up with all of the colony ships that left Sol. As a result, uncharted colonies showed up everywhere. It wasn't uncommon for an exploratory vessel to show up at an unexplored star system to find a thriving human colony residing there, greeting the explorers with smiles and open arms.

This period of unhindered human expansion went on for about 85 years. It was a time of growth for human beings. With the Vulcans as their cautious guides, Terrans began meeting a handfull of their galactic neighbors. Then, in the year 2156 humans encountered what would become the greatest threat ever to their young interplanetary civilization.

In my view the name UESPA makes alot more sense than Starfleet given the time peroid.The United Earth govenment was established in 2103 and the last nation-Australia didnt join until 2150.The name "Starfleet" for an organization that had barley left the Sol Sytem seems a little pretenious and grandiose dont you think? Oh well maybe thats part of the reason why the Vulcans were so eager to keep humainty in the Sol System at first.I agree that "canon" cant always be followed but the very defintion of canon is anything thats mentioned in the tv series or movies-by that defintion UESPA had to exist because it was mentioned-more than once even.

There has been much debate(among fans and on Star Trek itself) about wether or not Starfleet is primarily a military organization or if ir should/should not serve as one.We seem to have gotten someting in the way of an answer from Enterprise.There was reference to a General transferring troops to the ship to help with the Xindi situation.This implies there is a seperate United Earth military.Makes sense of course- call me stubborn but I still think we should be talking about UESPA until the Federation is founded butI know that aint gonna happen.

The Borg were forshadowed in the final first season TNG episode the Neutral Zone.Starfleet never had a direct encounter with them(save Regeneration) until the second Season episode Q-Who.So doesnt the Hansens knowledge/tracking of the Borg(by name) in the 2350's? contradict that fact as well?Of course there is another related consideration-why didnt the El-Aurian refugess that made it as far as the Sol System (ie Generations)tell Starfleet what had destroyed their homeworld?

Click for Spoiler:

episode of Enterprise-The Expanse -is going to have some big changes

for the series.A previously unheard of race-the Xindi- launch a probe

that attacks Earth devestating southern North America,Central America

and northern South America -killing upwards of 70 million.The

Enterprise is sent to the "bermuda triangle" of space-the Delphic

Expanse -to track down the mysterious Xindi.T'Pol violates orders from

the Vulcan High Command to join them.Next season she will be sporting

a new uniform and hairdo.Trip ,embittered by the death of his sister

in Florida turns into a "(I'm trying to say a bad word but can't)kicker" and a group of hot shot Starfleet

recruits joins the ship to help against the Xindi-shades of Section

31? My question is where is all of this leading?Enterprise is

pre-Federation(should be pre -Starfleet to but who remembers UESPA?)

but will this show show the birth of the Federation or end before it

actually happens.All previous canon suggests the Earth-Romulan war was

the event that preceded the Federation foundation.This implies that

the conflict was only between Earth and Romulus with the other major

powers-especially the Vulcans- staying neutral.I know that this change

in the show is being done to improve ratings but there has got to be

some respect of previously established canon.What do you think- will

Berman and company have this Xindi campaigh replace the Romulan War or

not?

Should they?Any and all ideas appreciated.