ConnorExum

I'd like to see the gang watch 200 motels by Frank Zappa... I think that would be perfect film for a long space flight. The tale of a band forever on the search for grouppies , pay and the pursuit of true rock and roll bliss... Now if this doesn't catch your fancy what about "Apolcpsy Now " one of the greatest films ever made... It's a catchy dark number with so much potential...

What's so confusing??? You go to the Star Trek Offical chat site at the right time on the right day for Scott... Then you sign in and type your message and if you're lucky and not obcene they might actually have Scott reply to it... Seems simple enough to me.

What's with Porthos as a character that develop? Are they going to give him an alien beagel love interest or what? Or my favorite idea an away team has to eat porthos to stay alive... That's the best part about having an edible crewman no get's all worked up when you do that!

That's just it the general impression that the ST:TOS "Terror Of Balance" left with the viewer is one of a major conflict. Not just a bunch of border skirmishes or some sort of limited warfare. Spock, claimed that the space battles were fought with atomic weapons on ships with no capablity of taking on prisoners or visual communications. Which increased the brutality of the conflict. But you're right you can't base everything on those few lines. Which is exactly what I was pointing out that from a realistic standpoint there couldn't be a conflict of any real intensity or duration without some sort of physical or visual contact with the each side of the conflict. Thus Gene Roddenberry's idea must tweaked a bit to really be considered a viable and realistic concept.

Any good trekkie knows that Romulans were supposedly unseen for 200 years or so between the time of Enterprise and ST:TOS... But I ask you this realistically can that be?? How could Gene Roddenberry really think that so if a major full scale war was fought? I doubt that it would be without any major ground battles. No, planets were taken for certain military objectives; no, prisoners taken; no. attempt at taking key military officals captive. No, black ops missions inflitrating enemy postions to recon the enemy? Just ship to ship battles being fought with no visual comminucation used... I don't know but that seems like a big stretch if you ask me.

I think that it worked well for one episode the "Balance Of Terror" in ST:TOS. However when analysized in more depth the idea that a war could be or would be fought in that manner isn't very realistic in the long run. I think if Enterprise does make it to the big predicted and actually the one event I was looking forward to the "Romulan Conflict". Then the Romulans will have to be seen... There's really no way to get around it and make that storyline really work well. Much to the dismay of many true diehard trekkies that will claim it as an afront to the estblish trek lore. And episodes will have to deal with Romulans over running and taking out Earth colonials and assets with more then just ships. For those that ask why I say it can't be ignored here's why a pure space conflict isn't very realistic for several reasons. One, spaceships can't hold areas on the surface of the planet thus troops will have to land to hodl areas of vital importance. Two, even after massive orbit bombardment there will still be a need to move ground troops into an arar to mop up the surivivors(unless you destroy the planet entirely). Three, sometimes there's a need to capture a target with minimal damage to it, ie mining complexes , refineries and so on. Targets that would be useless after massive orbital bombardments. Thus not allowing the mission's objective to be accomplished... All reasons that would put the Romulan forces in contact with the Human defenders or attackers. Either way Humans would see what Romulans look like.

If Enterprise does last this long I think they could do wonders with a Romulan War storyline. Of course it's got to be done right. They just can't do it half way and it has to have feeling of a real conflict. Not just some half done storyline... Yes I dare say it must embody the essance of an all out drag out knock down tooth and nail conflict that's ramifications will last for centuries and determine the out of so much... But it can't be done in a bland and overly John Wayne hero way... There has to be that sense that war's hell and everyone is wounded at the end some wounds just can't be seen.

You know many people think Rainbow's final few years were not as strong as some of the early days. But I think Diffcult To Cure was a very interesting and influencial album not to mention underrated. Even if many mau not think this so... It pioneered the whole trend Heavy Rock Bands turning to the idea of symphonic rock.... Not just rock bands with symphonies for back up playing rock music. No rock bands actually playing true classicaly inspired musical pieces. "Diffcult To Cure's" title track isn't just reworking of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony it's the template for such acts as Yngwie Malmsteen's Rising Force's and their nurmeous opuses and so on as well as many other bands. Yet many don't realize just how important Ritchie Blackmore's vision really was... But overdone and it became a cliche of the time period... Now many will only look back at such pieces of music as being dated and too structured with much disdain totally missing the point. Yet one must be subjective the puriest vision Ritchie's idea of electrifing the ninth symphony was brilliant. Yet when carbon copied in mass quanity and just poorly executed over and over and over again the genre did crumble... Is Star Trek running into the same thing as well? Are too many reincarnations of same theme dooming the show????

( by the way Death Alley Drive is another song from the Rainbow Album Diffcult to Cure just incase you wondered. I was listening to that when I came up with the posts idea so entitled it the same!)

I would have to say Yes... And to Klingon Mike if you think after season 3 of ST:TNG that it's a carbon copy of ST:TOS you're crazy... After season 3 the scripts focused more on character development and less on chessy John Wayne style antics. They turned characters into 3-d figures and built convincing storylines inwhich to showcase them. So far Enterprise has done nothing but steal from ST:TNG and ST:TOS and only do a poor execution of the same material... Much like many did to Ritchie Blackmores idea thus diminishing from the whole essence of the idea! They didn't move the idea forward only repeated it and poorly if I might add!

QUOTE

Since St:TNG, the characters have only been carbon copies of previous series; of couse with new make up. While I understand that there are just so many possible emotions and events to place the core element of characters in. It's almost as if the writers have thrown out any real human nature replacing it with an overly idolized and idealist concept of human nature that just doesn't really exist.

Well you must take it with context of what ST:TNG was... ST:TNG was idealistic . Yet it still managed to hold enough realism about character development for the most part to keep it interesting to the auidence. The problem with Enteprise is this. The cast is too far withdrawn from the auidence in many aspects too little has been done with so many of them so far. The writers and producers seem to be trying to put the elements that made ST:TNG a success with that of ST:TOS' cowboy action filled storyline. The problem is that you just can't squeeze those two very different visions together. One demands a more sophisicated prespective about character development. And, other relies more on action squences and limited character growth. The basic what you see is what you get philosophy, that resembles a John Wayne style western. I find those boring...

Thus we come to Enterprise's new direction. Which should have given the characters a darker edge with more purpose. All they writers and producers have shown from the Expanse season finale episode is action... No character growth there at all. No general outrage against the attack(for the most part)... No crystalizing effect on the crew's attitudes or that of the Star Fleet command about the response to the attack. Instead we see alone ship thrown out into space with no solid mission objectives.

Adm. Forrester and the Earth Government didn't even seem like they had any thoughts on what to do... Didn't take command of the mission's planning or logistics' phases. It would seem to me that Adm. Forrester would need the full assets of Earth to pull of this attack and defense of Earth. Remember the Xindi aren't just going to stop until they destroy Earth. Earth, has to be ready for the worst. And yet Berman and Bragga seem content with leaving Adm. Forresters reactions so far as bland and uninspiring as one can get... We're talking about a major power player in the command structure of Star Fleet and he leaves almost all the details up to Archer alone? Not a realistic reaction to the events shown... Hell Adm. Forrester was more pissed about Archer taking off the NX-B with out permission then this attack it seemed.

Also Archer's reactions are complete disproportionate to the threat. Instead of pulling his crew together in a military fashion giving them the training and equipment they need. He whines about not being believed in because Vulcan's don't like his theory on time travel... Also I guess the whole Duras' subplot of regaining his honor with Archer's head is supposed to show the ever increasing darker side of Archer's command style. Well I have to say this "don't make me laugh"... Archer wouldn't and couldn't let Duras escape after the second attack. It would be a threat to his mission to save Earth and it would further put his ship in jarpody before he even gets started. Any sane commander would have blown Duras' ship away when he had the chance and the advantage. Also when you consider that Archer says "He'll do whatever it takes to save Earth" it's sort of odd risk being destroyed before even getting a chance to do that. Don't you think so too?

Trip's reactions are at least realistic. He's angry and out for blood. That should be the generall feeling of the crew... Because this is a mission that is about Earth's continued surivival and all of the human crew risk to loose everything they hold dear. Not just Trip as shown so far...

Yet they show Reed trying to play ships shrink... Shouldn't he be the first man to want to blow up the Xindi? He's always clamoring about how unmilitary Archer's command style is and the overall regs in Star Fleet. Well isn't this the perfect change that ??? Yet he's playing dr. with Trip and not hitting on the fact they've got valuable military intelligence in Daniel's quarters wasting away not to mention cloaking , shield generation, and more advance technology in an untapped Suliban Cell ship... Shouldn't he be thinking about how to farther upgrade the capablities of Enterprise's offensive deffensive system given the new mission? Not worring about Trip's funeral arrangements for his sister.

The rest of the cast seems to have no reaction at all after the intial shock so far... How interesting no one says "Captain we're all with and we're all ready to go where ever this may lead us" I guess not... Nor does the Archer give a stirring speach to inspire them... It's just oh let's go for the hell of it right?

That's what I'm talking about in realism so far...

It's rather silly I think to have a long standing franchise fade way only because those in control aren't willing to change with the times. Yet that's what is exactly happening to Star Trek if look at the numbers lately. I can't see how anyone can still be interested in seeing something that's been all done before and in much better ways. While totally discounting the simple fact that character development in Star Trek has become a cliche. Since St:TNG, the characters have only been carbon copies of previous series; of couse with new make up. While I understand that there are just so many possible emotions and events to place the core element of characters in. It's almost as if the writers have thrown out any real human nature replacing it with an overly idolized and idealist concept of human nature that just doesn't really exist. That is too often unrealist and lacks the earnest desires of what being Human is and therefore the ablity to impact with the auidence of today.

Now, I know some may say that what I'm suggesting is merely nothing more then "Platoon" , "Saving Pvt.Ryan" or a whole host of other gritty realistic films that show darker images then the classic John Wayne variety. However first you must understand that in the end "good" or "evil , "right" and wrong" , all depend on the prespective of the story teller. In reality events are more grey straddling those imaginery morals line and told in way that is benefical to the story teller's point of view.

For example I'm pretty sure that most Japanese people wouldn't consider Col. Paul Tibbets. The pilot of the "Enola Gay" a hero for dropping an atomic weapon on their country. Killing upwards of 120,000 in the blast alone. With many more dying a slow painful death from various cancers for decades later those that tought to be lucky to surivived the intial blast. However from a different perspective that same man is a glorious hero that saved millions of "his country men's lives". Who is right? Is he a hero or a villian? The answer is neither and both he was only a man sent on a mission that could the war. His goal was merely to succeed in it. His status as hero or villian is really only subjective from the teller's point of view. If you japanese he's not a hero but to American's he is.

It's this so type of human nature I think Enterprise lacks in it's story telling. All the characters are too fake. Always doing the same things never once really doing something wrong for all the right reasons. Or something right for all the wrong reasons. All too boring... All too done

My god people you are all blind. That must be it! Even I went though a period of time where I said "let them grow; they need to develop background and link the series together". The only problem is for every 5 (or less) episodes per season that are original they have 21 (or more that) others that barely even rate as worth watching. So needless to say it's over. Sometimes I question the reason why I continue to watch at all. Clearly this show dosen't seem to be changing in any real substive manner. And no I dont' belong to the Save Our Star Trek Society.... I belong to the trekkie society that actually wants to see something new for a change.

As for season 3... That's the biggest insult of all. It's the Borg-meets-Dominion meets Archer instead of Sisko. The whole concept of it is implausible. A terrorist type first attack designed to what frighten the Earth's population into whatt? Mass Suicide? So the Xindi can then destroy the planet with what corpses on it or maybe repopulate after the removal of the dead bodies? It's one thing to have a first strike with a serious goal of effecting morale . It's another to just waste the surprise element of a first strike on diggin' a trench in the planet in area that isn't even vital to defenese or the planet's infrasture on a whole. It's clearly a shameless attempt to draw on the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The only difference is terrorist use terror to attempt to make political changes by destroying the morale and will of the people they see oppressing them. The only problem is the Xindi want to destroy Earth completely. Too very different goals that require too very different apporaches to achieve success.

The storyline for season 3... Another insult from what I've read from the Paramount Site. (l just love when they used that phrase in "Aplocpyse Now"; didn't you?) around the expanse blowing up all things that concern the Xindi... Well isnt' that absurd. It wouldn't take long for the Xindi to figure out that hey Earth knows who attacked them and are coming after us... So maybe we should destroy all Earth vessels in the Expanse? I mean call it crazy but Archer wouldn't be around for very long if he did this in reality. The Xindi would need to destroy him before he can a) report back the location of the doomsday weapon; report back the location of the Xindi homeworld; c) report back any intel on Xindi capablities ; and d) report back any possible data on who gave the Xindi the information and how to time travel to stop them from attempting another attack of Earth... These are just a few reasons for Archer's need to be destroyed from a realistic Xindi standpoint. All the more reason Berman and Braga need to think about this Cowboy crap they've written more carefully. It's just too much john wayne pesudobravado and unrealistic when we consider the fact we've all seen trek go down this road before! Isn't it time they take the path less traveled in the trek saga and start to write more realistic reactions and actions by characters and races???

A better question is why is the probed manned in the first place??? And even better why would it self destruct in the first place after achieving it's dubious objective? A self destructing probe that doesn't achieve any real military objectives isn't a very pratical use for a weapon like that show. Especially if your consider the enemy's goal is Earth's total destruction. What's the point of having the Xindi attempt to terrorize the Earth's population? Earth knowing fear isn't a useful objective if total destuction is the desired result in the end from a first strike. It doesn't make much sense if think about it from a military stand point. There are much better targets to use that weapon on that would be more effective in distrupting the targets response to the attack. To what the writers hav written would just give your target valuable intel on your spieces and weapon's technology. Also it's obivously just a shameless way to connect Enterprise to The Sept 11th 2001 attacks.

the SBC2 Second Class is what that should have read... Military guys come up with some really fun nicknames.

Of course this was about Star Trek I was just merely mentioning that a great aircraft of WWII also used that same name. Considering how the whole fight over what the writers and producers have done in Voyager and Enteprise is moot it's already been done... No changing it now.

You're are all wrong the Dauntless is a carrierbased diver bomber used during WWII... Built by Douglas in the thousands it servered from the late 40 up to 44... When it was replaced by the SBC2 Helldiver built by Curtiss.

The dauntless was a single engine two seat aircraft. Known for it's outsanding strength and servive ablity. It only lacked the range and payload capacity which is why it was later replaced by the unhappy SBC2 aka "Son Of A (I'm trying to say a bad word but can't) Second Class" Helldiver. Which never really was well liked by the pilots due to it's poor handling characteristics. All in all most pilots that flew the Dauntless SBD would have rather stayed with it then change over to the Helldiver.

But that's just a bit too much I think for most

Alterego,

You're the perfect example of the diehard Enterprise fan. You think constructive critism is bashing and that the show should be nothing more then a remake of ST:TOS. ST:TNG was so refreshing after the first 3 seasons because it did break up the formula some. It's character's were more dynamic and the storylines more developed. Which is why Enterprise lacks developed storylines because they're just reruns of the original series. Why would anyone want to see basically the original series remade with a new crew? That's not interesting at all. That's not creative. Nor, is it all that imagintive on the parts of the writers/producers. For the viewers to want to see that, means only one thing, the average viewer really can't be all that interested in creative storylines either. Otherwise they would be demanding a more original direction for Enterprise to take.

When I first heard Enterprise was going to be in the 22nd century I thought it was a fanstatic idea. I liked the idea of watching a series where they constructed the foundations of the all preceeeding series in fictional chronological order. I fully realized that it would have a less polished aspect to it and the captain would be the iconic model for all future captains. What I didn't want to see is what's happened. It's got the basic storyline of the original series with a cowboy captain but it trys to have the polished modern moral stance of the later ST:TNG period. That doesn't work. It's like watching Kirk trying to be Picard and Picard trying to be Cowboy... The two series were written at very different times for very different auidence demographics. Gene Roddenberry even said so. He called the Original a "Wagon Train To The Stars". The next series really was a more accurate and better view of his original idea. Of course 20 years inbetween them didn't hurt and the state of the franchise gave the creative staff the budget for the special effects and so on they wanted for ST:TNG that they never had in ST:TOS. Yet, overall ST:TNG was by far the best series they've developed from the original.

Enterprise could be great but it needs to alter the formula a bit. They need to be grittier and less polished while not going so far as to being nothing more then space cowboys. I know this may annoy people but the ST:TOS was by far the poorest of the any series in the franchise. It's plots were plodding and predictable with too many gimmicky devices in them that were supposedly used for drama. Not that I'm saying they didn't have some excellent ones because they did. But the majority of the episodes I find from ST:TOS to be as described above. The same thing this happening to Enteprise too. Only because it's a total rip off of most of TOS's episodes.

Enterprise needs to get into new bold direction. Realism. Gritty realism when it comes to character reactions. No more half way just really interesting well thought actions must be taken by the characters to any action. No more knights on white horses saving the day. Sometimes the characters need to straddle the line and almost seem to cross it. Remember human nature isn't something that's easily negated so it shouldn't be it should be used to build the storyline. Not just omitted because it doesn't always fit what Star Trek means.

Have We The Fans Of Enterprise Been Dupped By It's Producers And Writers

I think we have. The producers and writers of this new series have continuely reused and rehashed previous concepts in Star Trek so much so that it's almost like watching reruns. They seem to be fixated with redoing all the past episodes of Star Trek's past glories. So much so that even the two alien characters on the crew of Enterprise are basically just mish moshed bits and pieces of already existing characters. What are Rick and Brannon thinking? Really I want to know.

Take for example T'Pol... A true full blooded vulcan. Yet she acts less logical then any other vulcan ever shown. Her character is that of Data basically just wrapped up in a really nice body... She attempts to understand humanity and almost attempts to be more like it. If that isn't a paradox of so called Vulcan nature I don't know what is. She's the vulcan that wants to be human it seems...

Pholx is another character that is a cross between being Worf a semiadjusted stranger in a strangeland and a Nelix type comic relief with too much fur... The Pholx Worf similarity is primarily concerning his work ethic and strong cultural identy. The Nelix factor is more in how they use him. He rarely ever plays a role that is completely forceful or serious nor do the writers attempt to make him seem serious. He's always sort of aloof doing a serious job yet never serious about it. Unlike the other doctor characters of the past like Bones and Crusher. All very serious about the work ; very cut and dry doctors for the most part.... Nothing has been done like that with Pholx so far and it's limited his impact actually. He's almost laughable but in a way that's not reaching the audience as intended.

The rest of the show is flat too... Far too many burrowed episode ideas. Especially from the original. Hell, it seems at times that all we're really watching is a remake of the original series . Archer has been captured more times then you can throw a stick at... His ship is been beaten up more times then I care to count. His moral stances have all been made before. Yet some how now they just seem to be flat when he makes them... I wonder if Enterprise is just a victim of the success that the other serieses had? All the vital ideas are used up and now the formula needs to be changed but it can't be without destroying the sense of continuity to many fans... So what fans get instead are reused ideas in new pretty packages.

Ah I think it would be realisticly just more of the same from Rick Berman and Brannon Bragga... A reused storyline that attempts to be bold and new yet just doesn't deliever because how many times can we see Earth and the Federation saved by a crew of the Enterprise and still be interested in it? The truth is sometimes things work well on TV but no so well on the Big Screen. I think Enterprise is better on the small screen because it can have a longer period of time to develop it' s storyline. On the big screen the need to compress and truncate the storyline is too great and often leads to rehashing storylines.

I would like to Enteprise NX-01 become this...

I'd like to see the Enterprise NX-01 and Starfleet become a fully realized military organization with the primary goal of peaceful exploration. When one considers human nature it seems that after the Xindi attack the rules that define Star Fleet's mission would be completely changed. They're not only an organzation out to explore but they need to insure the safety of Earth too... That's a big difference then what they started out as and it should be the change they go though a period of maximum military status for awhile at least. Human's should be alittle gun shy and protective of themselves. I mean it's only rational to think that after 7 million dead in a surprise attack people aren't going to want to here "it's a big misunderstanding". They would want to see results and the result would be a more militaristic Star Fleet out protecting Earth and her assets.

As far as the ship goes well we know that the Roluman war is reported to have started in about 2155 or 56 so that's not to far off. And coming on the heels of this attack it's a good bet that Star Fleet wouldn't be the same organization by the time Roluman's try to attack. They would be accutely aware of the dangers of space travel and the hostile nature of some spieces. Taking that into account it's irrational to think that Star Fleet wouldn't start a major build up of ships for both defenesive purproses and exploration. But with Archer being the only commander with real space combat experince it would be more advantagous to have him become the head of the military branch of Star Fleet. Being in space and out gunned and out numbered would give him the first hand experince he needs to really understand the threats in space. Therefore would logically want to rebuild the Enterprise and her fellow NX class ships into some sort of fast attack cruiser. Mainly because A) they are already built ; It's would be a good stop gap measure ; and C) He commands one... These would be well armed with extra extrenal phase cannon packs , more photonic torpedoes , and the spacial torpedo tubes converted to fire both normal spacial torpedoes and lay antimatter mines. As well shields ,extra armor , upgraded power systems, warp reactor, new sensor systems and the suliban cloak... That's just what I would think any rational commander would want and considering they have the technology already they can do it. Because already knowing what could happen in space he would want a fast sleathy attack force that hit the enemy before they know what's happened.

That's just what I want to see. Peace can't be achieved if everyone is taking pot shots or pushing Earth around now can it?

Swank... It was just stuck inside the hardcover 22nd century edition to Shakespear's greatest plays! :lol: He's been in space don't tell me he's not in need of action!

The Xindi "First Strike" is more about creating terror then actually achieving any noticable military objectives. Earth's defenses , government , and general infrstucture are all still intact for the most part. So that leaves Earth able to both potentially defend against another future attack as well to mount a future offensive against the Xindi. Also when the probe self destructed that gave the Starfleet intel boys volumes of information on the enemy(if in reality) and even possible ideas as to the orgin of the probe. The Xindi would be throwing away the key element to any battle plan like this the element of surprise.

These facts about the lacking realism of the new direction can not be disputed from a rational standpoint of storyline development. They however can be over looked by the writers and producers. Which they have been as this far in the series' new direction. Why? I can't tell you exactly nor can I fathom it. Yet too see so many fans of Enterprise being duped into thinking this is some how different then before or better is laughable. Not to mention the fact it's such a reused concept in the Star Trek Saga... When doesn't the crew of some Enterprise save the Earth? Almost every other episode and movie actually it seems at this point.

Can we all agree on this Enterprise is nothing but the same old stuff repackaged so far. They've had very few really creative interesting episodes thus far. But they have had bright shinning moments. The question is this why aren't they capitolizing on the strongest elements of the show: character development and showing early developments in Human space flight? I can't understand this at all myself.

Star Trek III... Can't we get a little a more creative then Archer blowing up the Enterprise? I know that in the 3rd movie it was a impressive and shocking turn of events but now it's not. We've seen the Defiant destroyed in battle and now it's just another reused idea. What would be better would be to see the spec ops team stay behind in R&D center and destroy it only when Archer is safely away on his way back home. Now after the R&D center is blown up it's realistic to figure that Archer is going to need to fight his way out of the Delphic Expanse. The Xindi can't not take the chance of letting the Earth's Government realize they succeed. Nor, can the Xindi let Archer return with potentialy all the technology required to build the same weapon for Earth to use on the Xindi now in the 22nd... To me that has far more potential then Archer just blowing up the Enterprise in some last ditch effort. Remember escape pods are vunerable and could easily be destroyed long before any Earth ship or allied vessel reachs them.

Klingonmike,

I didn't say Enteprise was anymore realistic then the rest? No. I said it was just more of the same. Infact I said it was a mish-mosh of past ideas repeated with a new cast in just a flashier way then before. And I get replies that don't even come close to being on the same train of thought as I am. And that really makes me wonder what sort of people are watching today?

As to the absurd response read these paraphrased ones. You Klingonmike, say stuff about it's not a military show... Yet the new direction is clearly one of a military direction. Archer isn't out in the Expanse doing peaceful exploration is he? So if that's so shouldn't be alittle more realistic in that area then? On then I got responses about what a fictional public out cry would be to the attack yet that's not what's been disputed here by me. What's disputed here is the realism of the show and premise for whole new direction. How the Xindi attack is what's disputed by me. It simply wasn't a realistic first strike becasue it didn't achieve any meaningful military objective. Digging a trench in Florida isn't a major military objective. Then to self destruct after it's achieved is just crazy. Only an idoit would think a military planner would just throw the enemy examples of his technology to examine. Yet many viewers bought this hook line and sinker which is unfathomable.

Sure every trek has been the same and isn't that all the more reason to break the mold and of the cowboy in space. Sure in the late '60's and early 70's that was fine for about what 3 seasons then Trek Died??? So I think we can see a distrubing parallel between the two more the cowboyish and predictable the series becomes the less people are willing to watch it. Campy, doesn't work today. It needs to be edgy and realistic with actions that fit the events. Not actions that are designed to be events. I know it's sci-fi but that only means it's got an element of science fiction to explain away what science fact can't today. It doesn't mean you neglect the character development or rational thinking that should take place to develop interesting storylines and characters. Because people connect to the characters not to fictional pieces of technology.

Take offense all you want...

What a bad idea that is... Star Trek only works because it's a futuristic utopian belief that some day Earth and human will rise above the conditions of present. To do what you say would make it a mockery...

Fedboca,

I think this turned into a heated issued when I recieved so many absurd replies to my posting. Sure I might want excessive realism but we all must agree that the peaceful exploration storyline is out for now. Replaced by one of conflict. A conflict storyline demands a certain about of realism and realistic actions to be taken by the characters for it to really be believe for the auidence. And the get postings in response that say I'm bashing it because it's clearly a flawed storyline at present and I've just pointed such huge flaws in realism and plausiblity. What can I say...

The writers and producers want the auidence to be engaged bythe storyline yet they refuse to add on once of realistic action by the commanders of Starfleet, Earth's government ,and the crew of Enterprise. They gloss over building block conepts that would make this direction seem realistic just to get to hasty action sequences with gimmicky things like Loops and crap. Nothing is developed nor are they trying to develop this storyline in a manner that would be realistic from a military point of view. How can an auidence really be engaged by a storyline that's so weak it has only action basically in it? Not even plausible action for the senairo they've written. Just pointless action is there only for action's sake. In some attempt to recapture ratings. Even the original had enough sense not use action as a primiary plot device in most of it's scripts.

At present I've read three production reports... All them have either Archer shooting it out or being discovered by Alien races. If you're the only ship that stands between destruction of Earth and it's safety in hostile space. You don't go around drawing attention to yourself so the enemy knows you're coming. It sort of defeats your mission before it starts. Yet, that's exactly what the writers and producers are throwing at us. One episode after another of Archer shooting it out. Doesn't anyone get the point that from a realistic standpoint Archer would be vaporized by a Xindi patrol after attacking the Xindi at ever corner. Not to mention if the Xindi know you're coming after them it's a good bet they will tighten up thier defenses making it impossible to destroy the weapon and save Earth.

This mission in reality required Archer to be unseen unknown and to take the enemy R&D complex completely by surprise. That's what would happen in reality. However Berman and Braga think that Archer playing cowboy is a better drama. Well we all know that he can't die nor can he fail so where's the drama there? It's just more of the same pseduodrama based on actions that can't happen. One Archer can't be capatured and executed; nor can any of the other members of the cast that are key players. So that sort of detracts from the possible drama. Second, Enterprise can't fail so no matter what Enterprise will win in the end. Three, the events must all some how disappear. So given those fact how much drama can be produced from this storyline? Not awhole hell of alot really if you think about it . It's just not capable of being a dramatic show from that prespective. It can however be dramatic is they let the characters grow and become darker because of this new storyline.

Those are just my thoughts. :lol:

Klingonmike,

I said the writers neglected certain things that concern continuity within Enterprise the series itself not when compared to other series in the Star Trek franchise. In other words they've glossed over already stated facts or seemingly forgot all about certain assets already onboard the Enterprise that could greatly help the mission. These omissions make it hard to swallow certain ideas presented in the finale episode when one expects realistic actions from the crew and commanders in Starfleet.

Such as these...

1) No intel on Xindi: Well Archer does have a database from the 31st century. So there must be some data on the Xindi probably covering all aspects. Hell with time travel the database could have a complete record of the Xindi development up to their destruction in the 26th century. So it's not like Archer has to go into the expanse with no idea of his enemy. Basically he could use the database to guide him directly to their homeworld then work from there.

2) The Cell Ship: The Cell Ship contains a cloaking device and shields... You're telling me that Archer has some how let it slip his mind about these assets wasting away in his shuttle bay... That's not realistic to think Archer is going on a suicide mission and he forgets to tell Adm. Forrester "hey I've got some goddies in the shuttle bay we should try to retro fit to the NX-01 while we upgrade the weapons! " That's just not even using their brains. Of course any reasonable commander in the real world would try to use such assets to give him an edge in combat. Remember for the Enterprise to achieve it's goals it needs to be stealthy... What better way then to sneak up on your enemies using a stolen cloaking device?

3) Military Planners: Well military planners might not have been considered viable in the original direction but when one changes gears and switches to this quasi-military operation one must follow it through. Or be faced with a clumsy half assed series that never actually gets to the point. Either make it realistic or just don't do it is what I think. Gimmicky half achieved episodes that lack realism or anything that would seem to be dramatic other then bigger explosions to me isn't the way to go.

Military Planners would be a neccessary part of this new mission for Enterprise. Mainly because once Enterprise destroy's the enemy's doomsday weapon what's to stop the Xindi from attempting an all out conventional assault on Earth? Nothing. Infact it's rather reasonable to assume that Xindi would do it only because they've opened the door to that possiblity with their first strike. Howeve that's only if Berman and Bragga intend to have any realistic actions attributed to the Enterprise's crew, Starfleet Command , The Earth Goverment and The Xindi Governemt. I doubt that will happen.

Altergo,

You must be some one that thinks if you see any problem at all with Star Trek and point it you're being a basher. I'm not bashing Star Trek in general. I'm bashing Berman and Braga's susposedly bold new direction for Enterprise. Because it's neither bold nor is new and groundbreaking in the Star Trek Saga. It contains elements of both Star Trek IV and Star Trek VIII mish-moshed together with some very poorly constructed revenge theme. From a critcal anaylsis standpoint the new direction lacks any really good possiblities of development in character or storyline if it continues in the manner that the preproduction reports suggest. It's just a simple way to put the crew into more action driven storylines that have gimmicky plot devices...

If some new bold direction was the goal of the writers and producers then shouldn't they be exploring areas in realism and character development. You just can't throw the Enterprise's crew into combat and expect an auidence to find it believable after awhile if the storyline is always the same one ship: out gunned and out numered; fighting the incredible odds to save Earth. It's been done a hundred times(not an exact figure) before in Star Trek and now it's getting old.

The writers and producers should have attempted to make the story connect a little better to the previous events in the series so far too. I'm supposed to believe that Adm. Forrester wouldn't demand all information on the Xindi from crewman Daniel's Database? That's just stupid. If Archer were real and had any intel on them he would be giving into to boys in Star Fleet intelligence to examine. This then would be used to form a coherent battle plan for Enterprise's mission in the Expanse. Unlike what we see presently which is just a romp in the hostile space with no clue as to who the enemy really is or where they may be. Sort of stupid when you consider they have a database full of information up to the 31st century... Not using there heads from a realistic standpoint nor is it something that fits the continuity of the show. Considering Archer knows of it's existance and has used it before to identify a ship from the future. I think this mission saving Earth qualfies as a good reason to look again. Don't you people?

Also Archer has a suliban cell ship in his cargo bay... You're telling me that in the 22nd century Starfleet can't see the advantages of examine an alien ship with greater technological assets? That's another absurd and totally unrealistic aspect of the new direction. Something they did in the haste to get back into the action of the season finale. Realistically the R&D boys back in Starfleet HQ would have that Suliban Cell ship in pieces and would be retorfitting or revese engineering any useful aspect of the ship to fit the Enterprise NX-01... Remember the NX-01 is the only hope for the safety of Earth. So you just don't do a half-assed job on it's upgrades and send it out.

As for extra training that would be required too. The crew would be drilled on new tactics in space combat... How to use the new weapon systems most effectively and if they were to be truely realistic they would use Daniel's database to get the specs and so on of the Xindi ships of this time period. That way they could simulate combat in sims for the crew to hone their new skills.

Oh wait that's just being nit picky it's so much more dramatic to watch them do loops and shoot them in the back... Right? I mean that's called good story telling. Why would we want to see the crew turn into a fighting force? Nor would it be exciting to see them use some common sense. I guess the average fan is just too dull to see that if Archer were to go shooting it up every where he goes he wouldn't be living very long. He would be hunted down and destroyed. That's why this mission requires a covert sense to it. One that can't be maintained if the writers/producers find it necessary to have Archer blow up everything every where he goes. That isn't drama that's action for action's sake. Drama is created by the stress of the events like in Das Boot. Where the crew is always understress of attack but always trys to avoid any senairo that would give away their pressence before they have too... There's plenty of drama to be created in Enterprise that doesn't require them to shoot it out all the time.

Then again I might just be the enemy who's attacking something I don't understand right? Well I understand I poorly constructed idea when I see one that relies on action to fill in the gappin' areas of storyline where there's nothing else... Sad too because ST:TNG was really a good show now Enterprise is killing the franchise. But then again maybe it's time to be put to bed?

To Trekzone...

Okay obviously you have no understanding of military thinking. Because everything you said is wrong. Military planners always look for advantages. They just don't throw away resources. And the element of surprise is critcal to any first strike. The idea behind the first strike is always to destroy the enemy's ablity to mount a counter attack and also to send the enemy into choas. Not hand over information about your technology for the enemy to examine. Nor is it to just randomly strike at pointless targets of no military value. That's a waste of time and resources.

Technology and Tactics... Isn't irrevelant unless you're a moron you damn well know that both are vital to success. Technology is the key factor to success. Technology is what drives the modern battle and the tactics which are employed because of advances. So to say that Archer couldn't use substianial up grades is short sided on your part. Also to think that other friendly races like the Denoblians for example who have obviously been in space for far longer couldn't give Archer and crew some pointers in tactics is absurd. Of course they could.

To be continued is a joke right you're not that mundane are you? :)