Sign in to follow this  
Jim Phaserman

My "issues" with Starfleet

Recommended Posts

I have a hard time finding Starfleet to be a believable thing. and here's why.

 

1. Where are all the NCOs? in the run of the series we;ve seen who knows how many officers, and only a handful of NCOs. in my experience, if an officer has a problem, the first person he asks is an NCO. and not the Corporal or PO3 mind you, the crusty old bast*rd that's been in so long he can't remember his childhood.

 

2. Too many officers on the bridge. this goes along with the above. again, in my experience, most officers, save harbor pilots, don't know how to drive, so to speak. and normally you will only find 3 officers at most on the bridge, the rest are enlisted.

 

3. Too many captains. the rank of "Captain", O-6 in the US Navy paygrade system, is one for an officer of great experience. Captains are people who know the drill, they are the top dogs, seasoned officers who can tackle to toughest jobs. how am I supposed to believe that someone like James Kirk, who was only out of the academy for what? 5 years? has the experience to hold the rank of Captain? Sure, he can command a ship, but Commanding a ship and holding the rank of Captain are not the same thing. on my first vessel, our Captain was a Commander. a ship like the USS Defiant or the USS Voyager shouldn't have an O-6 commanding it. Soveriegn class and Galaxy class starships are the realm of the Captain. let a Commander or a Lieutenant Commander handle the smaller, less capable ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question - while I don't disagree with anything you said, I know on civilian vessels, being called "captain" is an honorary thing. If a commander or lieutenant commander is in charge of a vessel, is it accurate to say that he or she "captains" the vessel, or that he or she "commands" the vessel?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I agree that there should be more NCOs around it is probably difficult to write for them. I mean a crusty old Petty Officer watching the enlsted scrub the decks or whatever would be pretty boring for the audience, wouldn't it?

Edited by lt_van_roy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's what I thought you meant, but that was my brain skipping sideways.

 

We have ships seemingly peopled mostly by graduates of Starfleet Academy, which would account for a higher rank. This, however, is highly illogical, which is the point.

 

To go along with your "too many officers on the bridge" comment - I know ST jokes about it, but too many officers go on First Contact missions, too. While officers are important, even in chess, the pawns usually go first...Cannon fodder, scouts, whatever you want to call them. The Captain and the First Officer and the CMO (First contact, TOS style) are quite the power mix.

 

I wonder if, in this time period, they have an OTC program in the public schools. (Another sideways skip of the brain.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol, van roy. it would, but I am sure alot of us Navy guys could relate to it.

 

 

I'd assume there is a SFJROTC on the High School Level and a SFROTC on the College level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can agree about the NCO's and the Ranking but I think that TPTB choose to keep it the way it is so that it is easier for the audience to follow as many of them would not have the knowledge about the current military to understand the ranks and would get confused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with CJLP. These organisations aren't the same, didn't Tom Paris once say that he originaly wanted to join the StarFleet Naval Services (something like that) indicating that StarFleet and the Navy are seperate?

 

Anyway, what are you talking about no NCO's? On DS9 the StarFleet engineering staff is made up completly of NCO's, hence Chief Miles O'Brien...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My view is very simple.

It's all down to dramatic lisence.

I would never presume to argue with an artest on the way they paint or draw as I would not argue with a creater of Sci-fi on there Idealistic view of the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyway, what are you talking about no NCO's? On DS9 the StarFleet engineering staff is made up completly of NCO's, hence Chief Miles O'Brien...

At least until Nog made Ensign, but you notice he didn't take over as department head when he did. O'Brien was still in charge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate the whole ohhhhhh...... Must do gooodd..... Goody two shoes thing!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyway, what are you talking about no NCO's? On DS9 the StarFleet engineering staff is made up completly of NCO's, hence Chief Miles O'Brien...

At least until Nog made Ensign, but you notice he didn't take over as department head when he did. O'Brien was still in charge.

 

Well I've only seen up to season 5 of DS9...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Anyway, what are you talking about no NCO's? On DS9 the StarFleet engineering staff is made up completly of NCO's, hence Chief Miles O'Brien...

We've only seen a handful of Non Commissioned Officers. look at the Enterprise D. the ONE "NCO" on that ship, Miles O'Brian, wore LT's insignia most of the time, and only worked the transporters. The fact is, we've seen WAY more officers on Star Trek than enlisted. it's highly disproportional. I might just need to be offended by it. as Jim will tell you, just because you are an officer, doesn't mean you can do everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I hate the whole ohhhhhh...... Must do gooodd..... Goody two shoes thing!!!!!!!

Yes, I too have an issue with this comment..What exactly do you mean?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if noone wanted to enlist, then alot of people would be turned away. Not everyone is cut out to be an officer. take me for example, I was enlisted. it took a Captain and a Vice Admiral to get me to apply for STA 21.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
if noone wanted to enlist, then alot of people would be turned away. Not everyone is cut out to be an officer. take me for example, I was enlisted. it took a Captain and a Vice Admiral to get me to apply for STA 21.

Yes, but Starfleet is not the Navy, so it's an entirely different situation. To me, comparring Starfleet to the Navy is like comparring the Enterprise-E to a space shuttle. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as a former sailor myself, I can say that the similarities are more than you know. My brother, for example, is a graduate of the US Naval Academy. He is an Engineering Officer. but if you hand him some tools and tell him to disassemble the Number 3 LM 2500 Turbine and re-adjust the compressor so it is in sync with the turbine, he'll give you this funny look. however, ask a Gas Turbine Specialist 2nd Class to do it and they will say "Aye sir". see, the Enlisted folk get more specific training on how to do things. an Engineering officer may know the basic principles of the engine and how it works, and may be able to tell you how many stages are in the turbine on an LM 2500 Gas Turbine, but he doesn't have the expertise to fix the bloody thing when it breaks down. I am assuming a Warp Drive is more complex than a Gas Turbine, and that at Starfleet Academy you still have to take English, and Math, and Science and History and Leadership courses every year, so you don't have the time to spend learning how to dissassemble, clean, and reassemble an engine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still think that officers can't do certain things in Star Fleet. I mean, look at DS9, the Station's "Cheif Engineer" was enlisted! he even lamented in the final episode about going to the academy to teach officers basic engineering principles. this shows that NCOs and Petty Officers still get to be Academy teachers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I still think that officers can't do certain things in Star Fleet.

Well, Starfleet may be similar to the Navy, but they're extremely different organizations. Why do you think Officers can't do certain things in Starfleet?

 

I mean, look at DS9, the Station's "Cheif Engineer" was enlisted!

Scotty, LaForge, B'Elanna, and Trip are all officers. Miles O'Brien was a rarety to be an enlisted man doing an officers job, which is chief engineer of a space station. His job title was "chief of opperations" since DS9 has no engine room, but it's basically the same job.

 

he even lamented in the final episode about going to the academy to teach officers basic engineering principles.

Who is to say that they don't allready learn basic engineering principles? Maybe he just wants to make sure they learn from the best.

 

this shows that NCOs and Petty Officers still get to be Academy teachers.

I don't see why they couldn't be able to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think their needs to be more emphasis on the enltisted personell in SF. They do make up mos of SF.

Where did you get this info from? From what I've seen in the shows and movies, Officers make up most of Starfleet.

 

Sf needs a dedicated ground fighting force too.

They do. We've seen them on DS9.

Edited by Captain Jean-Luc Picard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think their needs to be more emphasis on the enltisted personell in SF. They do make up mos of SF.

Where did you get this info from? From what I've seen in the shows and movies, Officers make up most of Starfleet.

 

THIS is the problem I have with Starfleet! 4 years at the Academy means you have a 4 year degree in your major, but not much time for other things. at the Academy, you don't spend 4 years JUST learning about Engines. you learn Physics, Chemestry, Math, Leadership, and a host of other very important qualities in an officer. when enlisted persons go through training, they do it for 40-50 hours a week, for up to a year, focusing on JUST ONE aspect of the ship. this means Enlisted crew members are infinitly more qualified to work on things than an officer is. for example. an Engineering Officer may get 6 hours a week of Warp Theory for a semester. the next semester, he gets 6 hours a week of basic warp drive set up. the third semester, it's 6 hours a week of Subspace Physics. For your 4th Semester, you are going 6 hours a week for Basic Impulse. your Junior year, yu get 6 hours a week of Advanced Fusion Reactors, and 6 hours a week of Basic Damage Control. your Senior Year is probably 6 hours a week for advanced warp, and 6 hours a week of Advanced Impulse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why are you comparing Starfleet to the Navy? :hand: You might as well be comparring the Starship Enterprise to the Space Shuttle Enterprise. :lol:

i agree with this..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this