Sign in to follow this  
Captain Ericks

What did Nemisis do right?

Recommended Posts

I just watched Nemisis again, and I've come to the realisation that Nemisis wasn't a horrible film, it was just taken away from more basic ideals of Star Trek. And for what its worth the action scenes in Nemisis are quite good. I also like the shock that Baird did with Data's sacrifice. He didn't try to drag it on. It just happen. In an instant the shock still gets me when I know it will happen. I also love that there is still a glimmer of hope that Data still exists in a way with B-4 ("He's not really dead if we find a way to remember him." and we all know how that worked out.) Shinzon is a solid villian who holds his own against Picard, and Tom Hardy really deserves credit for doing so.

 

Again it is not a great movie, and is probably regarded as one of the lower two films of Star Trek, and it is no doubt the most action oriented (due mostly because Baird was an editor of action movies and really didn't know Star Trek), but there definitly several good things to be seen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One of the two lowest? I think that is a little harsh. It's plot made sense. Generations is full of plot holes. And TMP was regarded as bad by almost everyone. So it can't be that bad. Besides I know lots of people who thourougly enjoyed it. I did!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a list of good things about the movie in random order:

 

1. Villian who seems redeemable versus the, "Oh, I'm the villian, booga booga!"

2. Finally seeing the Enterprise ram a ship. B)

3. Argo - Need I say more? B)

4. Beverly/Picard scenes.

5. "Spot" the cat.

6. Finally getting to see a Soong-type android prototype.

7. Janeway in the movies, giving VOY fans a bit of hope for a VOY movie or VOY characters in the next movie.

8. Riker/Troi marriage.

9. Picard didn't die.

10. Data's memory and the Soong legacy live on through B4.

 

That's all for now. B)

Edited by Captain Jean-Luc Picard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I myself didn't really care for the movie that much. At times it felt more like a Star Wars movie then a Star Trek movie. I may eventually add it to my DVD collection of movies but only so I can complete my collection and likely only after I have everything else. Personally I liked TMP better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In a phrase, "very little", but I guess I'm still a little bitter. B)

 

One of the bottom 5, but it still had a few good scenes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here's a list of good things about the movie in random order:

 

1. Villian who seems redeemable versus the, "Oh, I'm the villian, booga booga!"

2. Finally seeing the Enterprise ram a ship. B)

3. Argo - Need I say more? B)

4. Beverly/Picard scenes.

5. "Spot" the cat.

6. Finally getting to see a Soong-type android prototype.

7. Janeway in the movies, giving VOY fans a bit of hope for a VOY movie or VOY characters in the next movie.

8. Riker/Troi marriage.

9. Picard didn't die.

10. Data's memory and the Soong legacy live on through B4.

 

That's all for now. B)

Oh yes I like just about all of those with only minor complaints... like why would the argo have wheels? This is Star Trek people. It was a fun idea tho!

 

My good point of the movie would be: Someone other than Picard ended up being the hero. Go Data!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also loved how Picard "froze" durring the life-or-death situation after killing his clone. It made the scene very emotional and showed that Picard isn't the "man of steel" he presents himself as being.

 

As for the Argo cargo shuttle and jeep? I thought it was silly that the wheel would be "done away with" by the 24th century. Sure, we have shuttles, but why not have an old fashioned wheel-vehicle? It'd come in handy when you need to get arround fast in a small area, in places shuttles or transporters can't go, or simply in a situation where a shuttle might malfunction. Heck, if I lived on Earth in the late 24th century, I'd want both an Argo-style jeep as well as a small shuttle like the small, sleek ones aboard Voyager.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I also loved how Picard "froze" durring the life-or-death situation after killing his clone.  It made the scene very emotional and showed that Picard isn't the "man of steel" he presents himself as being.

B) I HATED that!!! That's one of the main things I've been griping about since December 13th, 2002! There isn't a fiber in my being that allows me to believe that Picard would ever freeze during that situation w/ only the smallest attachment to Shinzon and the lives of people he actually loved at stake.

 

...but I digress... B)

 

I might bring it up in the "what's so bad..." topic later. Either way, to each his own. B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The good things about Nemesis... let me see...

 

1. Jean-Luc is in it

2. Jean-Luc is in it

3. Jean-Luc is in it

4. Jean...

 

*coughs* Okay. Now the other ones B)

 

Well, the Enterprise E is to be seen again (it's my all-time fave ship), oh and I loved the Argo shuttle as well.

I also liked the wedding scene of Troi and Riker, Data singing "Blue Skies", the new First Officer scene (I know, it wasn't in the movie, but it's on the DVD - that counts! B) )... Well, Nemesis isn't that bad (if you don't look at the mistakes that are in it, such as Jean-Luc being bald during his academy days ( B) ) and so on...)

Oh, and I forgot: No annoying woman was in it (*thinks of Insurrection ;) and shudders*) ! B)

 

 

 

Mrs. Captain Picard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I also loved how Picard "froze" durring the life-or-death situation after killing his clone.  It made the scene very emotional and showed that Picard isn't the "man of steel" he presents himself as being.

B) I HATED that!!! That's one of the main things I've been griping about since December 13th, 2002! There isn't a fiber in my being that allows me to believe that Picard would ever freeze during that situation w/ only the smallest attachment to Shinzon and the lives of people he actually loved at stake.

 

...but I digress... B)

 

I might bring it up in the "what's so bad..." topic later. Either way, to each his own. B)

Rewatch the movie. Pay close attention to the Picard/Shinzon situation. Also keep in mind that the last of his family died in GENERATIONS. In a way, Shinzon was like a son. When he impaled Shinzon, it was loosing a son, in a way.

 

I would compare Picard's reaction to Shinzon's death to Kirk's reaction to Davd's death.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would compare Picard's reaction to Shinzon's death to Kirk's reaction to Davd's death.

 

 

Wwooaaahhhh!! That came out of the blue!! You shouldn't be comaparing Picard and Kirk! You'll cause an uprising on this board...! B)

 

 

As you can gather, I disagree with your coment... B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What's wrong with comparring captains? B) I think Kirk and Picard are great Enterprise captains! B)

Yes they are both great Enterprise Captains. I just don't consider Shinzon to be Picards son. He's an evil clone as far as I'm concerned. I don't see what Picard was so distraught over. Shinzon would always be evil..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right, Shiznon was not Picard's son. However, Captain Picard is the last of the Picards. He also regrets never settling down at times, but clearly enjoys the life he chose. So, when Picard discovers he has a clone... Well, think about it. If you discovered you had a clone who was an evil mad-man, how would you feel about it? Wouldn't you make every effort to try and get him to reconsider his way of life? If you finally had to kill him, you'd be killing a version of yourself. How would that make you feel?

 

As Patrick Stewart said, there were lots of psychological things going on in this movie, and it made it all the better. B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an action movie I really liked Nemesis, however I must confess it didn't feel like Star Trek, and neither was it as good as a real Trek movie.

 

What made the movie interesting was the Picard/Shinzon "relationship", and the ENT-E rammed the Scimitar! YEE-HAAA! B) B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One of the two lowest?  I think that is a little harsh.  It's plot made sense.  Generations is full of plot holes.  And TMP was regarded as bad by almost everyone.  So it can't be that bad.  Besides I know lots of people who thourougly enjoyed it.  I did!

 

I would have considered the Final Frontier one of the other lowest. It builds up a pretty good rising action, then it turns out to just be another spatial phenomena(sp?). The whole film was going for a spiritual fell and plumeted. And the use of the Klingons was the worst I have ever seen. They were pointless, and demoted from great warriors to a humble warrior who apologizes to Kirk for being a little mean.

 

A liked TMP. It lingers alot and the uniforms looked like rejected ideas from Star Wars. But I love the idea of V'Ger being just like us. Looking for a point to it's existance.

 

Generations, I love because of the unification of two series' and the Nexus is such a great dilema. Picard has everything he has ever wanted in the Nexus. Could any of us really say that we would sacrifice all of that for what we knew was right. (What plot holes? I may just be ignorant, but I never saw anything to prominent)

Edited by Lt. Commander Ericks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rewatch the movie.  Pay close attention to the Picard/Shinzon situation.  Also keep in mind that the last of his family died in GENERATIONS.  In a way, Shinzon was like a son.  When he impaled Shinzon, it was loosing a son, in a way.

 

I would compare Picard's reaction to Shinzon's death to Kirk's reaction to Davd's death.

We couldn't disagree more, but that's alright. Trust me, I've seen it many, many times, and I still hold the same opinion. Picard is a much less emotional person than Kirk, and Kirk had a bit of time to get to know David (his actual son). Picard knew Shinzon for less than a wk and never fully trusted him. Plus when Jean-Luc first thought his family line was ended, he cried for a day, then more or less recovered - this from the death of a brother he'd grown up w/ and looked up to and a nice young boy who was interested in the same things as JLP. In Nemesis, JLP almost allowed the deaths of the people who he'd been w/ for, what, 15 or so yrs?, and were more his family than anyone else.

 

This is just my opinion. It's not a big deal. B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't know how long it took Picard to recover from the loss of his family, due to him putting his feelings aside in order to do his job. As for not being emotional as Kirk? I suggest you watch "Family" from TNG Season 3. Picard is one of the most emotional charactes in the franchise, very passionate too. He just hides it behind that Starfleet uniform. OK, maybe Shinzon's death isn't like the death of a son. However, the script originally called for Shinzon to be Picard's son that he didn't know about, but it was decided to make him a clone. (probably becuase it would have mirrored Kirk/David from ST-2) However, think about being in a conflict with a copy of yourself. Don't you think killing your clone would put you into pyschological shock?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We don't know how long it took Picard to recover from the loss of his family, due to him putting his feelings aside in order to do his job.

Sorry, that's what I meant. It's in Picard's character to put aside his feelings in order to do his job. I did not see how this situation should have been any different.

 

As for not being emotional as Kirk? I suggest you watch "Family" from TNG Season 3. Picard is one of the most emotional charactes in the franchise, very passionate too. He just hides it behind that Starfleet uniform.

 

Again, sorry. I did mean that he is better at hiding them than Kirk. There are only few instances (when compared to Kirk) that JLP lets his emotions get the best of him. "Family" is a very good example of this, I agree. (and just so you know, I've seen every ep multiple times and have 95% on tape. I'm familiar w/ the examples. :grin: ).

 

OK, maybe Shinzon's death isn't like the death of a son. However, the script originally called for Shinzon to be Picard's son that he didn't know about, but it was decided to make him a clone. (probably becuase it would have mirrored Kirk/David from ST-2)

 

Yes, that would've been too much of a rip-off, imo (of both ST2 and "Bloodlines").

 

However, think about being in a conflict with a copy of yourself. Don't you think killing your clone would put you into pyschological shock?

 

There's no way to know of course. :dude: For me personally though, my first thought is, "I wouldn't allow it to since my mother, other family members, and all of my best friends are about to be turned into powder; I'll reflect on this situation later."

 

I honestly see your points as this isn't the first time I've debated this subject. However I still believe it was completely against character and should not have been written into the script. :) Oh well, what's done is done. It's canon now so I just have to accept it. :dude:

Edited by Ace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this