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Q/data/b4

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What if Q brought back Data? He could bring Data from the dead (but then Picard would have two androids)! Or Q could put Data inside B4! All of this in the next movie! What do you think?

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Q should definitely be in the next movie. Personally though, I did not care for B4. He reminds me too much of Data, and there's only one Data and B4 ain't it. Lore did not bother me but for some reason B4 does.

 

Besides, like I said in another post. If you bring Data back then you have to bring Shinzon back as well, to redeem himself.

 

Shinzonfan :wow:

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Q could just kill shinzon. lol.

 

but, no more bad attempts at humour in the trek movies please! i think Q is kinda too foolish for the movies.

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“The Search For Data”

"Q's Seach For Data"

 

LOL

 

I do like the character Q, but I don’t think he should be on the big screen. That is just my personal opinion on the matter. I just don’t personally see him on the big screen and I don’t think non-trek fans would like it that much. I might be wrong, but I don’t see it happening that easy. But of course it would be a funny movie if it happend.

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

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Well, IMO, I think we need a lighter-hearted movie. It should be absolutely perfect, and bring back Data, and balance everything (ok well all movies should, but this one especially!!), and make us laugh and cry and at the very end have some sort of lead in to DS9. Then they can have 4-6 movies and move on to VOY. Then we can all be happy :wow:

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Well, IMO, I think we need a lighter-hearted movie. It should be absolutely perfect, and bring back Data, and balance everything (ok well all movies should, but this one especially!!), and make us laugh and cry and at the very end have some sort of lead in to DS9. Then they can have 4-6 movies and move on to VOY. Then we can all be happy :wow:

Well maybe. It really just depends on how they do it and how good the story is. It has to be excepting to even a non-ST fan too. If it meets that, then I’ll be the first to stamp it “ok”.

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

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Or how about we all grow up and just accept that DATA IS DEAD!!! Im fed up with people who just cant accept change. To bring Data back would be a bottle out. Cheap and predictable. If they decide to keep the character then Data will be in B4's body because we all saw B4 sing Data's song at the end. OBVIOUSLY an indication that the transfer of memory engrams did more than just transfer Daa's more advanced sub-routines but also his memories and personality. B4 is just a dumb shell which will be filled with Data if required. And since they look alike then Brent Spiner will play him again. To use Q would also be cheap and nasty. I mean to be honest Q could be used for anything and bringing people back from the dead would be trite. No, I think that Q should stay out of the movies and that if Data is dead then he's dead. Though since Brent Spiner's career is hardly booming and he'll get paid loads to come back for another feature I can see Data returning (in memories and personality) in the shell of B4 (who is not alive but is a mere body).

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Data is not and cannot be B-4. Data said that himself.

Data downloaded his memories into B-4 and that song was part of his memories. The singing of the song meant that he was starting to work thru that massive amount of info that Data transferred to him. It does not mean that *bing* he is going to wake up one day and BE Data.

 

the whole point of Data was to have a life form that was a machine, but was still...human. If B-4 BECOMES Data than this means Data did not have a soul and he is JUST a machine like he always said.

That would kill him for me more then the BOOM at the end of Nemesis! :)

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After B4 assimilates Data's programming and memories he will still have his own memories after being found on Kolaris. HE will know he is not Data too. As he experiences more he will see things through his own eyes and his development will proceed based on his experiences and not Data's. I hope Data's knowledge and experience will help B4's Starfleet career should he choose to pursue one.

 

Data is Data and B4 is B4 just as identical twins everywhere are each their own person. I hope B4 will remember Data quoting Shakespeare - "to thine own self be true". That is what B4 must do for himself and to honour Data.

 

I think B4 can become a wonderful character further in his development because Brent Spiner would bring so much to the character as he does with all of the roles he has played.

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Data is not and cannot be B-4. Data said that himself.

Data downloaded his memories into B-4 and that song was part of his memories. The singing of the song meant that he was starting to work thru that massive amount of info that Data transferred to him. It does not mean that *bing* he is going to wake up one day and BE Data.

 

the whole point of Data was to have a life form that was a machine, but was still...human. If B-4 BECOMES Data than this means Data did not have a soul and he is JUST a machine like he always said.

That would kill him for me more then the BOOM at the end of Nemesis!  :)

 

Takara's quote

After B4 assimilates Data's programming and memories he will still have his own memories after being found on Kolaris. HE will know he is not Data too. As he experiences more he will see things through his own eyes and his development will proceed based on his experiences and not Data's. I hope Data's knowledge and experience will help B4's Starfleet career should he choose to pursue one.

 

Data is Data and B4 is B4 just as identical twins everywhere are each their own person. I hope B4 will remember Data quoting Shakespeare - "to thine own self be true". That is what B4 must do for himself and to honour Data.

 

I think B4 can become a wonderful character further in his development because Brent Spiner would bring so much to the character as he does with all of the roles he has played.

 

I agree with that Lessa, if B4 was to BECOME Data then that definately kill him more for me than that explosion! :)

And I also agree with Takara's ideas, I do hope that B4 does choose to join Starrfleet, since being in the service helped his brother so much.

 

And no, I don't think that Q should be used, if anything that would cheapen Data's sacrifice more than bringing him back any other way. Plus, it would continue that claim that he was nothing more than a machine, a thing. And he wasn't a thing! Q uses people as toys for his own amusement, and so this really wouldn't work at all.

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You see, you three are what i'm talking about. Now. Dont get me wrong, im not making enemies with the Soong girls :) But I think that your views on Data, and what he is, are influenced heavily by your feelings towards him. You all love him very much as a character and that is evident throughout your threads. Almost, sometimes, to the point of obsession. Therefore, Data has become very humanised to you and for him to die was for him to die. But you must accept then, that if he is dead - then he's dead! He's never coming back. No Q. No 'Great Search'. That's it. I, however, see Data differently. He was, to me, a very sophisticated machine: a machine that had very similar but not real human characteristics. Now that's my view and i'm entitled to it as much as you are to yours. I think that his programming and the sum of all his experiences together made up his 'personality' and that this could be copied into an identical shell to create a copy. Now, only time will tell whether or not this will be the case in a future film (and hopefully we'll still be in here talking about it LOL) but that's just my view. One of many. You have your more humanised view and that's ok too. I say B4 will forget his early primitive memories just like Data forgot his memories of running around the colony naked. And Data's programming will over run his system.

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I disagree with your view of Data. He may have been that at the beginning of TNG but by the end he had evolved to be so much more than a bunch of circuits and wires.

 

Don't worry if you think we're obsessed - obsessing is a very subjective term. We won't come searching for you to beat you up or anything as we respect others opinions. :)

 

As for Data coming back, Brent Spiner has said in interviews that he didn't know if he would be playing Data or B4 if there were another TNG movie. He used Spock as an example and asked if anyone is truly dead in Star Trek.

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Data is a machine, Data is a program. He may be sentient and so forth, but he's still that, a machine. However, that doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed the rights and respect of any organic being.

 

He "could" have downloaded himself into the ship's computer or into B4 had he the time to do so, but he didn't. Instead, all that survived are his memories via the memory transfer into B4. Data's "memories" won't magically change B4 into a Data-clone. It just doesn't work that way.

 

I say B4 will arrise to become his own individual being, with a hint of Data on occassion. That's my opinion anyway. :)

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Well if Spiner plays B4 and he has the the memories of data but is different, what rank will he be? Remember that Ezri got additional rank cos she had previous Star Fleet memories etc. Also, will B4 be best mates with Geordi? Will there be a lot of difference between B4 and Data?

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Guest Ktrek

Perhaps Data wasn't really killed in the explosion but was transported and kidnapped by the Romulans at the last second. :)

 

Ktrek

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I, however, see Data differently. He was, to me, a very sophisticated machine: a machine that had very similar but not real human characteristics. Now that's my view and i'm entitled to it as much as you are to yours.

 

I say B4 will forget his early primitive memories just like Data forgot his memories of running around the colony naked. And Data's programming will over run his system.

After everything that Data went through in his quest to be more human, I and many others think he succeeded in becoming much more than the sum of his parts. You obviously don't see it that way. I think it is your loss if you can only see him as a machine.

 

One correction, Data didn't "forget" his memories at Omicron Theta. Dr. Soong wiped out his memories and replaced them with the "memories" of the colonists.

 

And as I said before I agree you are entitled to your opinion just as we are entitled to ours.

 

As for B4, he will never be another Data. To make him a carbon copy of Data would cheapen Data's sacrifice and, from interviews I have read, Brent Spiner would not allow that. I would love if Data were still alive. If a plausible explanation could be written on how he survived that would be great. If he can not be brought back, I will accept B4 as a new character in his own right. I know that B4 has the potential to be a terrific character in his own right since I believe Brent Spiner to be a brilliant actor who brings so much more to a character than what is on paper. He will make B4 great just as he made Data great.

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Yes, Data is a machine. No one is debating that as it would be pointless and stupid to do so. Data IS A MAChine...however, he was also sentient. That is one of the things that made him such a big deal . You seem to think that only we four think Data was more then a machine. This is not so. Not only are there many others on this board, but if you go back and watch "Measure Of a Man" you will clearly see that every one of Data's friends also felt this way about the walking calulator. Data also stated that he chose to believe that he was a person...not just a thing.

Yes, the soong sisters are obsessed with Data, but that does not mean that we cannot step back from the cliff side and think about these things clearly.

Now it would be easy to have Data back if we sisters believed that B-4 could become Data, BUT AS YOU HAVE SEEN, WE DONT (Darn caps lock)

Q still owes Data a favor in my view, so i think him saving him would be ok, but the sisters are not agreed on that. The transpoter that Tank suggested had gotten the best responce over the past five months since the first time i saw it suggested. I like that one too.

 

i don't want to "cheapen" Data's death, but i kind of thought it was cheaply done in the first place. (My opinion)

 

I kind of like the Taransporter idea, because the best one to have been at the controls would ahve been Sela. It would have been a great way to bring her into the story and keep Data alive to continue.

 

and No, b-4 would have to go through the same schooling and go through the rakes jsut like Data did and as Data indicated that Lore would if he joined. I would hope that B-4 did something else. I kept hoping that after the show ended that Data would leave...but TPTB did not consult me. :)

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I liked the transporter idea, too. Having Data and Sela would be an interesting idea, too...you know, with the whole Tasha thing.

 

I didn't think Data's death was cheap. I think it had purpose and meaning, but, I think that they could have made the movie end differently. No, they SHOULD have! Dang, here I go again...

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I thought I'd add my two cents to this debate. If they decide to make a new movie, I'd like to see B4 in it, with no attempt to turn the prototype andriod into a new Data. On a technical level Data was more sophisticated, so unless Commander Bruce Maddox (The Measure of a Man), Admiral Anthony Haftel(The Offspring), or someone else from Starfleet's cybernetics division can upgrade him, it is unlikely that he will be as capable as Data. As far as we know, the only reliable job he could be good at doing is sweeping the ship, but I think that would be a waste.

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I don't know if anyone else has even seen a Brent Spiner interview or had the chance to chat with him during one of his visits to startrek.com, but I had the distinct impression that he had had enough of playing Data and even didn't take his place as a star trek icon seriously. The chat transcripts are still available over there so if you have a chance to read them, please do so. Many of his answers to some questions were almost condescending and mean spirited. Because of this attitude I perceived, I wonder if Brent didn't have a hand in his own demise from the world of star trek. Perhaps he may have even been the one to suggest an end for Data so he could go on to other things. For those not accepting the fact that he's gone, perhaps a future book will bring him back much the same way Kirk was brought back. I don't think we'll ever see him being Data again. In fact, did anyone attend the last convention in California last month? I seemed to have noticed that Brent was conspicuously absent from the proceedings. Maybe because of other commitments, maybe not. I know that what I'm typing here may seem like heresy to some but it's possible that he just didn't want to be Data anymore.

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...Many of his answers to some questions were almost condescending and mean spirited. 

...In fact, did anyone attend the last convention in California last month?  I seemed to have noticed that Brent was conspicuously absent from the proceedings.  Maybe because of other commitments, maybe not.  I know that what I'm typing here may seem like heresy to some but it's possible that he just didn't want to be Data anymore.

Brent Spiner's sense of humour does not translate well in chats. I know many people read them and get the same impression that you did. If you watch the TNG Season 6 special feature he discusses how much he enjoyed playing Data.

 

As for him being absent from the convention in California, he has been in New York for the past 2 months. Rehearsals had already started when he took over the role of Hubert in Life X3 in February. The play has now opened and is set to run until July 6 so he probably won't be doing any conventions during its run.

 

Brent Spiner is open to doing another Trek movie. When asked about it around the release of Nemesis, he indicated he didn't know whether he would be playing Data or B4 but he did NOT say that he wouldn't do another movie. Besides if he didn't want to do Trek anymore why have B4.

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You are right, Takara... If he didn't want to portray Data anymore, why have him portray B4?? The two are physically identical, and if age was really an issue...then why did they not get someone else for the role?

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Perhaps you are right about the sense of humor and perhaps not. If others have noticed the same thing, how many of us could possibly be wrong? I'm sure that he is smart enough not to cause real offense to someone by tempering his words just enough to prevent anyone from seeing their true meaning. I would have prefered to hear his answers rather then seeing them typed since I then could have picked up his inflection enough to understand his feelings more. I only say this because I listen to the spoken word as part of my career and after 25 years I can easily pick up someone's inflection and get their true meaning. Also, please remember that in any interview, one can say just what the listener wants to hear and not have any real truth to it at all. Brent is not above this. I'm not trying to be argumentative but you yourself have brought up a few facts that may point to him not wanting to be Data as well. If he's doing rehersals in New York, this may be what he ultimately wants out of his career, to be doing things other then Trek, and does not want to go down in entertainment history as only Data of TNG. Then him being written out of Star Trek makes perfect sense. And as for the question, why was B4 written in the first place? There could be many reasons and not just for the reason to bring Data back. Couldn't it be possible that the character was written in anticipation of the expected reaction of Data fans like yourself? This gives you something to hold on to with no real promises given. It's also possible that the screenwriter just needed this to develop his plot line. This happens all the time. As in real life, there just comes a time when you have no choice but to accept an outcome, no matter how unpleasant it may be. The failure of this acceptance is what can cause some to worry.

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Something about Spiner being very private seems to get turned into the rumor that he hates Trek. He has been battling this for years. I have read him saying that there were rumors before every movie that he wanted out, but he was still in them.

 

He has been doing plays all along, that is not the issue.

It is true that he hates the makeup of Data and the contacts. He likes the challenges that playing Data had brought him though (getting to also play Lore and Soong and getting a scene where he played all three at once, ect...)

But i understand that he is hesitant to bring back Data, thus (as he said) cheapening his death. I and my sisters understand this, but as it has been done before, the truth is not always told. I read an interview with P. Stewart that came out just before the release of Nemesis that had him claiming that the rumor of a main character death was compleatly false. "Neither Brent's or my character dies in this movie" he said...as i remember...but it was not so.

 

The fact is...we have no facts. What we want is not always what happens in Trek. But we can all still talk about what we wish for and there is not harm, no foul.

 

We jsut hope for the best, because for us, TNG is not TNG without Data!

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well, if you think about it, "Brent's character" could mean a lot of things (BUT THAT'S CHEAP!!), so technically, Stewart was not lying (haha, yea right. He knew what we woud think either way)....

I have to admit that some of the things he said in the transcripts made me wonder, but usually I get the impression that he;s quite a nice guy.

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“The Search For Data”

"Q's Seach For Data"

 

LOL

 

I do like the character Q, but I don’t think he should be on the big screen. That is just my personal opinion on the matter. I just don’t personally see him on the big screen and I don’t think non-trek fans would like it that much. I might be wrong, but I don’t see it happening that easy. But of course it would be a funny movie if it happend.

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

Hey, I like the sound of that

 

Q's Search For Data

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Perhaps you are right about the sense of humor and perhaps not.  If others have noticed the same thing, how many of us could possibly be wrong?  I'm sure that he is smart enough not to cause real offense to someone by tempering his words just enough to prevent anyone from seeing their true meaning.  I would have prefered to hear his answers rather then seeing them typed since I then could have picked up his inflection enough to understand his feelings more.

From the many interviews I have seen with Brent Spiner he tends to have a sense of humour that can be sacrastic and self-deprecating at times. This can be very easily misinterpreted in print. I found a transcript of a convention appearance of his (can you believe that someone would tape an appearance and then transcribe it for the internet - way too much time on their hands but that's another thread) and if the person had included comments like "audience laughs hysterically" or things like that then so many of his comments could be taken the wrong way.

 

I don't think doing other things means a person is trying to distance themselves from Trek. Patrick Stewart is incredibly busy with projects like X-Men and other productions for his own production company. Jonathan Frakes and Levar Burton are concentrating on directing much more than acting now. Three years between Trek movies, ya gotta do something. Marina Sirtis and Michael Dorn seem to attend practically every convention there is and Gates McFadden lives in France.

 

Back to the topic now before I have to moderate myself :laugh: I really hope with all my heart that there is another TNG movie. I would love for Data to be back if it is done well but I will accept B4 into the family. I would really like to see the sequel that John Logan had in mind. I thought his screenplay rocked!!!!

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I really hope with all my heart that there is another TNG movie. I would love for Data to be back if it is done well but I will accept B4 into the family.

 

I agree with this though here Takara! And yes I believe that Brent's humor is easily misinterpreted as sarcasm and that it sometime sounds self-depreciating...I think I remember this from some interview or it might have been the book Finest Crew In The Fleet....Brent says(about himself) "I am just some dumb actor that memorizes brilliant dialogue" and that "Leonard Nimoy once said that he lost some brain cells while trying to memorize Spok's lines" and Brent said "Fortunately, I started out with no brain cells". Truth be told, Brent seems like a very quiet, shy, nice man, and he sounds like he is really brilliant too IMO.

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