Time Travel Plot Device (SPOILERS)

[Garzo 0]

I had the opportunity to see the film here in Germany and while I thoroughly loved it, I am puzzled about the time travel aspect of the story. Many have probably already heard or read about the film's plot, but before I go any further, let me warn you that my comments do contain SPOILERS.

 

SPOILERS AHEAD, CONTINUE READING AT OWN RISK

 

 

Obviously time travel is nothing new to the Star Trek universe, and that's the problem I have with the film. The entire Trek universe as we new it has been altered by Nero's voyage to the past. We have seen reality-altering time travel stories in Trek before, and they have always been resolved by fixing the space/time continuum. And I have to ask here, what is stopping the new young crew from fixing their time anomaly?

 

Especially with old Spock around, the Enterprise has a variety of means at its disposal to travel back and forth through time. They can hurl around the sun, they can jump through the Guardian of Forever portal, they can probably even create their own black hole with a drop of Red Matter. . .

 

Would it not be logical for elder Spock to try and repair the time line and return to his own reality?

 

Obviously the time travel angle was a plot device to reset the Trek universe for a fresh new film series. But the various Enterprise crews have overcome so many temporal challenges in the past, that one has to wonder why they just didn't fix this anomaly as well . . .

Edited April 21, 2009 by Garzo

[A l t e r E g o 9]

*stops reading at spoiler warning* I cannot wait to see it and be able to comment.

[Jack_Bauer 1]

I had the opportunity to see the film here in Germany and while I thoroughly loved it, I am puzzled about the time travel aspect of the story. Many have probably already heard or read about the film's plot, but before I go any further, let me warn you that my comments do contain SPOILERS.

 

SPOILERS AHEAD, CONTINUE READING AT OWN RISK

 

 

Obviously time travel is nothing new to the Star Trek universe, and that's the problem I have with the film. The entire Trek universe as we new it has been altered by Nero's voyage to the past. We have seen reality-altering time travel stories in Trek before, and they have always been resolved by fixing the space/time continuum. And I have to ask here, what is stopping the new young crew from fixing their time anomaly?

 

Especially with old Spock around, the Enterprise has a variety of means at its disposal to travel back and forth through time. They can hurl around the sun, they can jump through the Guardian of Forever portal, they can probably even create their own black hole with a drop of Red Matter. . .

 

Would it not be logical for elder Spock to try and repair the time line and return to his own reality?

 

Obviously the time travel angle was a plot device to reset the Trek universe for a fresh new film series. But the various Enterprise crews have overcome so many temporal challenges in the past, that one has to wonder why they just didn't fix this anomaly as well . . .

 

I have not seen the film, but I feel I know enough to answer this question.

 

According to Roberto Orci, ‘Star Trek’ subscribes to the quantum theory of time travel. The idea behind this theory is that the very action of travelling through time creates an alternate timeline (which is different from the one which they left if only because they are not where they are supposed to be) where events need not necessarily follow the same course. To put it in simpler terms (and I know I have used this analogy previously), Marty McFly cannot prevent his own birth because the George McFly and Lorraine Baines he encounters are not really ‘his’ parents. They are the parents of the Marty McFly of the timeline he is now in. I believe that there are scientists who believe this is how time travel would function as it eliminates the possibility of paradoxes.

 

Therefore, when Nero and Spock Prime are accidentally thrown back in time, they are entering a new Star Trek timeline which is distinct from the one they left because they are not where they are supposed to be. However, this new timeline does not overwrite the original. It is more of an alternate quantum reality, similar to those encountered by Worf in Parallels (TNG).

 

Anyway, once one enters a new timeline, it is impossible to return to their original timeline. Attempting to travel back to the future would result in travelling to the future of the new timeline. Additionally, travelling back again to correct what was done would also be impossible. The Enterprise crew could not travel back to correct the change because then there would be two Enterprises. They also cannot correct their own past; they can only create a past for another version of the crew that is closer to the one Spock Prime originally experienced. Spock Prime theoretically travel back again and prevent the destruction of the Kelvin and possibility defeat Nero at that instance, this would minimize the amount of difference between that timeline and his original but it still wouldn’t be the original.

 

I hope that helps.

[Garzo 0]

Thanks, yes, I read somewhere about Orci's explanation and his adoption of the more modern theories of quantum physics, but since this film is based in the original Trek universe, we cannot dismiss past time travel experienced by the crew of this Enterprise (or by Picard and Janeway's crews as well).

 

If we accept that the film is actually set in a parallel universe, then the black hole that sucked up Spock and Nero actually ripped a hole into another dimension, more similar to the Mirror Mirror universe than to simply traveling to the past, which should still be possible in the Trek universe since this film is based in that universe.

 

Time has been portrayed as a stream on Trek, where individuals can travel up stream into the past and back downstream into the future, as was the case in Star Trek IV and The City on the Edge of Forever. Kirk did not travel to a parallel Earth to pick up the two whales, he went directly back into his own time, then back to his own present.

 

Apparently Spock cannot do this in the new film because this is not his past, but rather a completely different "universe," an Earth 2 if you will.

 

Thus, the plot of the new film is not about time travel at all, but rather about inter-dimensional travel, correct? (Quantumly speaking, that may be the same thing, but in Trek, old-school time travel must still exist in order to explain the whales in Voyage Home and the death of Edith Keeler while still making room for this other type of dimensional travel which, like I said, appears closer to moving into a parallel world like in Mirror Mirror than actually moving back in time to your own real past, as seen in countless episodes from nearly all the Trek series.

 

Having said all that, I'm sure Data and Geordi would have no problem finding their way back to their own dimension using some sort of tachyon field or something, but I digress . . .

[Voyager recruit 0]

I did read the spoilers in the above posts, and THANK YOU to all who put them in;frankly, I'd like some info on how the plot develops, even now. Very interesting....I will say this, also, that the explanations put forth by Jack B. were well done; however, I do like the logic Garzo made-to follow the timetravel way as put forth before in past treks. Remember Kirk's line to Spock in the antique store, re his glasses? ''And they will be (a gift) again. That's the beauty of it'' Very clear interconnectivity. But, a fellow fan at another site made a good case for the quantum aspect. And it still keeps the original series reality in place, which I think gives a degree of satisfaction to those of us who cherish 'the way it was'... and I guess you'd sort of be 'required'? to follow the scenario as intended by the writers.

[Jack_Bauer 1]

Thanks, yes, I read somewhere about Orci's explanation and his adoption of the more modern theories of quantum physics, but since this film is based in the original Trek universe, we cannot dismiss past time travel experienced by the crew of this Enterprise (or by Picard and Janeway's crews as well).

 

If we accept that the film is actually set in a parallel universe, then the black hole that sucked up Spock and Nero actually ripped a hole into another dimension, more similar to the Mirror Mirror universe than to simply traveling to the past, which should still be possible in the Trek universe since this film is based in that universe.

 

Time has been portrayed as a stream on Trek, where individuals can travel up stream into the past and back downstream into the future, as was the case in Star Trek IV and The City on the Edge of Forever. Kirk did not travel to a parallel Earth to pick up the two whales, he went directly back into his own time, then back to his own present.

 

Apparently Spock cannot do this in the new film because this is not his past, but rather a completely different "universe," an Earth 2 if you will.

 

Thus, the plot of the new film is not about time travel at all, but rather about inter-dimensional travel, correct? (Quantumly speaking, that may be the same thing, but in Trek, old-school time travel must still exist in order to explain the whales in Voyage Home and the death of Edith Keeler while still making room for this other type of dimensional travel which, like I said, appears closer to moving into a parallel world like in Mirror Mirror than actually moving back in time to your own real past, as seen in countless episodes from nearly all the Trek series.

 

I don't know, I think you can make the argument that every instance of Star Trek time travel does in fact follow this theory. It gets a little sketchy in places but it is possible. For example, Kirk and crew do make changes to the timeline in 1986 (most notable the removal of Gillian Taylor) but do nothing that would substantially alter the timeline and prevent their own traveling back. Therefore they travel back from 2286A to 1986B, make a few changes, grab the whales, and travel back to 2286B, where the 2286B versions of the crew have also traveled back. Therefore, while it not appear that they have crossed into an alternate timeline, they possibly could have.

 

However, since there has never really been a uniformly applied theory across all of Star Trek, I think these guys deserve the benefit of the doubt.

[Garzo 0]

Possibly, but the main difference it seems is that in the earlier films, they were able to freely travel back and forth, whether or not they were ending up in "new" realities, they at least felt like they had returned home, or "fixed" the timeline, as was the case in the TNG episode Yesterday's Enterprise, in which, similar to the new film, a temporally displaced ship creates a new timeline. Tasha Yar (who had died in the original timeline but was alive in the new parallel universe, ends up restoring the original time).

 

SPOILERS

 

So obviously, it must be possible for our new young crew to "fix" their timeline, as they are aware that it has been altered. At the very least, they can travel back in their own time to save a certain planet from destruction.

 

It just seems awkward that for so long we've seen these crews travel through time and space as if it were no big deal, using time as an instrument, manipulating it, and suddenly, they become helpless, victims of this temporal anomaly that has completely altered their universe (but one which would have been easily restored in any other Trek episode).

 

Still, great movie and I can't help but wonder if time travel, or dimension hopping a al Sliders, will continue to play a part in the new movie series.

[Jack_Bauer 1]

Possibly, but the main difference it seems is that in the earlier films, they were able to freely travel back and forth, whether or not they were ending up in "new" realities, they at least felt like they had returned home, or "fixed" the timeline, as was the case in the TNG episode Yesterday's Enterprise, in which, similar to the new film, a temporally displaced ship creates a new timeline. Tasha Yar (who had died in the original timeline but was alive in the new parallel universe, ends up restoring the original time).

 

It did seem like they were able to travel freely back and forth, but it is an assumption that they weren't just skipping realities. For instance, with Yesterday's Enterprise, they are possibly three different timelines featured. The first is where we start, the second is when the Enterprise-C comes through the rift, and the third is when it is sent back with Yar. But honestly, Star Trek has by and large, done a lousy job staying consistent with the rules of time travel both internally and with scientific theory. But then again, most television and movie are the same. So if Orci, and Kurtzman want to do it that way, I have no problem with it. I actually prefer the in-canon reboot to a Casino Royale/Battlestar Galactica/Batman Begins style reboot.

[Kor37 9]

So I guess that every time they go back in time, a new reality is created so this current movie series will take place in an alternate reality.

[Jack_Bauer 1]

So I guess that every time they go back in time, a new reality is created so this current movie series will take place in an alternate reality.

Technically, yes. But one not all that different from the original Star Trek universe (which as we know it is probably a combination of several timelines, because every time travel incident in Star Trek history would technically result in a new timeline. It just all seems the same from our objective point of view)

[Garzo 0]

But honestly, Star Trek has by and large, done a lousy job staying consistent with the rules of time travel both internally and with scientific theory. But then again, most television and movie are the same. So if Orci, and Kurtzman want to do it that way, I have no problem with it. I actually prefer the in-canon reboot to a Casino Royale/Battlestar Galactica/Batman Begins style reboot.

 

I totally agree with you there, the film is totally Star Trek and I can't wait to see it again. Obviously the Trek universe lends itself to exactly this kind of re-set. (Say what you will about Enterprise, but I loved the two-parter entirely set in the Mirror universe -- what a cool series that would be!)

 

As for Batman, since it's based on a comic property, I think it's great to have constant cinematic re-inventions. (Plus, I wasn't too thrilled with the the Burton and Schumacher films in the first place -- glad to see Chris Nolan found Batman's true potential).

 

And James Bond -- each new actor has practically been a reboot if you ask me. It's impossible to have a consistent movie series from the early 1960s through the late 1990s without having the main character age. Even Brosnan was much much younger in Golden Eye than Moore was in A View to a Kill, so they practically were completely different Bond universes.

 

But to get back to the topic, yes, we can definitely have diverse realities in the Trek universe and still remain in-canon -- that's the beauty of Trek.