SeeingEyeBorg 0 Posted April 23, 2008 (edited) I agree. Insanity. Which they say often leads to genius, so...cheers. Edited April 23, 2008 by SeeingEyeBorg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
I.Q. 0 Posted April 23, 2008 The other timeline problem I had with this episode was the casting of Bruce Maddox. The guy who played him (Brian Brophy) didn't look old enough to have been on the Academy committee at the time Data would have applied. He would have been barely a teenage at the time Data applied. I just watched the episode..... Id guess Maddox was at most 35.....Unless you wanna entertain the possiblity that in their time, 60 is the new 30 <_< Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SeeingEyeBorg 0 Posted April 23, 2008 The other timeline problem I had with this episode was the casting of Bruce Maddox. The guy who played him (Brian Brophy) didn't look old enough to have been on the Academy committee at the time Data would have applied. He would have been barely a teenage at the time Data applied. I just watched the episode..... Id guess Maddox was at most 35.....Unless you wanna entertain the possiblity that in their time, 60 is the new 30 <_< That and technology was Maddox's specialty, so...who knows what that psycho scientist came up with and then administered to himself? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Picard 12 Posted April 23, 2008 That and technology was Maddox's specialty, so...who knows what that psycho scientist came up with and then administered to himself? Maybe he borrowed some of the stuff Admiral Jameson had in "Too Short A Season"... <_< Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SeeingEyeBorg 0 Posted April 24, 2008 LOL - you kinda read my mind. :blink: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted June 8, 2009 I was watching "Clues" earlier today and something struck me about a sentence that Picard said that brought back to my mind the episode in question here in this thread. If you recall in that episode (Clues) the Enterprise discovers an M class planet in a place where an M class planet shouldn't be. They go through a wormhole (which wasn't really a wormhole at all) and are all knocked out for 30 seconds while the Enterprise is thrown a distance away from the "wormhole". Through little "Clues" the crew discovers that Data is lying to them and that they were out for much more than 30 seconds. Picard then discusses the situation with Data in his ready room where Data refuses a direct order to disclose what is going on. Picard asks Data if he understands what a court martial will mean, that Starfleet will have him "Stripped down to his wires" to figure out what went wrong. That's the line that got me. If Riker refused an direct order and had to be court martialed would they do an autopsy to rip out his brain and see if he had gone insane for refusing an order? Would they remove the implants in Geordi's brain that make his VISOR work to see if that was what caused him to refuse a direct order? This episode (Clues) completely ignores Measure of a Man in that one line. It makes it seem as though Data is indeed the "property" of Starfleet and that they would disassemble him as someone would a car if it "broke down" in order to figure out what "went wrong". Anyway, just an observation I made this afternoon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
youbroughtheryouRiker 2 Posted June 9, 2009 I think Picard was being hyperbolic just to hammer home the point of how severe the punishment would be for Data. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted June 9, 2009 That would be out of character for Picard though, and when he asked Data if he knew that would happen Data said that he understood. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takara_Soong 4 Posted June 10, 2009 That line in Clues always bothered me too. It wasn't the only time that Data was threatened that way either*. I really wish the writers hadn't done that. *The other time that I am referring to is when Dr. Marr threatened Data with disassembly if it were discovered he was working with the Crystalline Entity in the episode Silicon Avatar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yillara Skye 1 Posted June 30, 2009 If Riker refused an direct order and had to be court martialed would they do an autopsy to rip out his brain and see if he had gone insane for refusing an order? yesyesyesyes :) Sorry in a weird and crazy mood today. But yes that is a weird statement he makes. Kinda like them saying I know you're sentient and all but since you are an android we'll put a spin on it that otherwise would never have been made to an organic being. And for the life of me, about the original discussion, I cant remember but somewhere there is a mention that Maddox was the only Nay vote for Data to enter the academy. I honestly can't tell you if it was a instance of canon or non canon to even limit the things to look for. Something to the effect of him applying to enter the academy and there was a vote done to see if he was granted enterance. I would venture to guess that it would be similar to any in this century applying for college.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
youbroughtheryouRiker 2 Posted June 30, 2009 That would be out of character for Picard though, and when he asked Data if he knew that would happen Data said that he understood. I really don't see it that way. Everyone uses hyperbole once in awhile. That's just me though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takara_Soong 4 Posted June 30, 2009 And for the life of me, about the original discussion, I cant remember but somewhere there is a mention that Maddox was the only Nay vote for Data to enter the academy. I honestly can't tell you if it was a instance of canon or non canon to even limit the things to look for. Something to the effect of him applying to enter the academy and there was a vote done to see if he was granted enterance. I would venture to guess that it would be similar to any in this century applying for college.. It was said in this episode that Maddox had been the only one against Data entering Starfleet Academy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted June 30, 2009 That would be out of character for Picard though, and when he asked Data if he knew that would happen Data said that he understood. I really don't see it that way. Everyone uses hyperbole once in awhile. That's just me though. I don't see it as hyperbole, would Picard threaten Worf with being killed and having his brain removed if he disobeyed an order? In a serious situation where the Captain believes that the ship is in serious danger or some serious situation exists and his 2nd officer is lying to him and he is trying to gain the truth then every sentence he says has to hold weight and be truthful. If he were to say "Data, if you don't tell me the truth I'll flush you out the nearest airlock!" that would be hyperbole. Saying "You'll be stripped down to your wires to figure out what went wrong" is telling Data what he believes Starfleets reaction to his disobedience will be. I believe it was just the writers trying to convey the sense that Data was willing to face his own death in order to protect the Enterprise crew, they just didn't take into account that Data isn't the property of Starfleet like the ships computer is and 'stripping him down to his wires' wouldn't be an option. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
youbroughtheryouRiker 2 Posted July 1, 2009 That would be out of character for Picard though, and when he asked Data if he knew that would happen Data said that he understood. I really don't see it that way. Everyone uses hyperbole once in awhile. That's just me though. I don't see it as hyperbole, would Picard threaten Worf with being killed and having his brain removed if he disobeyed an order? In a serious situation where the Captain believes that the ship is in serious danger or some serious situation exists and his 2nd officer is lying to him and he is trying to gain the truth then every sentence he says has to hold weight and be truthful. If he were to say "Data, if you don't tell me the truth I'll flush you out the nearest airlock!" that would be hyperbole. Saying "You'll be stripped down to your wires to figure out what went wrong" is telling Data what he believes Starfleets reaction to his disobedience will be. I believe it was just the writers trying to convey the sense that Data was willing to face his own death in order to protect the Enterprise crew, they just didn't take into account that Data isn't the property of Starfleet like the ships computer is and 'stripping him down to his wires' wouldn't be an option. Good possibility. I'd also say that there would probably also be those at Starfleet HQ who didn't quite agree with the decision in "Measure Of A Man" and would use the opportunity to try and get that decision reversed, then having Data stripped down to his wires under the guise of "figuring out what went wrong" to do everything else they wanted to him. Maybe Picard was referring to that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takara_Soong 4 Posted July 1, 2009 I don't see it as hyperbole, would Picard threaten Worf with being killed and having his brain removed if he disobeyed an order? In a serious situation where the Captain believes that the ship is in serious danger or some serious situation exists and his 2nd officer is lying to him and he is trying to gain the truth then every sentence he says has to hold weight and be truthful. When you look at it, Riker was in a very similar situtation to Data in season 7's The Pegasus. He was ordered by Admiral Pressman to keep information from Picard that affected the safety of the ship and crew. IIRC, Picard summoned Riker to his quarters because he thought Riker was witholding information. He didn't threaten Riker with death, only with removal as first officer of the Enterprise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yillara Skye 1 Posted September 27, 2009 And for the life of me, about the original discussion, I cant remember but somewhere there is a mention that Maddox was the only Nay vote for Data to enter the academy. I honestly can't tell you if it was a instance of canon or non canon to even limit the things to look for. Something to the effect of him applying to enter the academy and there was a vote done to see if he was granted enterance. I would venture to guess that it would be similar to any in this century applying for college.. It was said in this episode that Maddox had been the only one against Data entering Starfleet Academy. Its been a little while since I last was here.. Was thinking it was canon, but wasnt 100% sure. Thanks for clearing it up B) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
He Who Shall Not Be Named 2 Posted September 15, 2010 So Maddox was against Data joining Starfleet and yet considers him Starfleet property? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites