B4 sentient yet, or not?

[Yillara Skye 1]

We have discussed B4's place in Trek society, if he was a prototype, or if his memory transfer will help Data have a way to come back. Now I have a good question, Did B4 reach sentience yet, was he ever sentient?

 

I don't think that he was exactly sentient, not yet. In "The Offspring" it took several memory transfers for Lal to reach sentience, and B4 only had one transfer, so I think he wasn't quite there yet. He didn't seem to be "all there", he did not seem aware of his surroundings yet, which indicates that he hadn't crossed that threshhold yet. What do you think??

[Takara_Soong 4]

Agreed. I think it will take time for B4 to reach sentience but once he has assimilated all of Data's memories and programming that he will be there. We don't really know how long it took Data to reach sentience but he did say in The Offspring that it was a very difficult time. I wish Data were there to help B4 as he was with Lal.

[Data 0]

I believe B4 is sentient. Even though he is not as advanced as Data, he is aware of who he is.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I don't believe B4 is sentient, but he has the potential, which in a way, is the same thing. Data's memories won't make B4 another Data. It takes more than memories to form a personallity.

[dsbs 0]

I believe B4 is sentient. Even though he is not as advanced as Data, he is aware of who he is.

Exactly what I think, Data. I thnk the same about Lal, too. She seemed pretty aware (ok, a LITTLE aware) to me at the very begining...it's a fine line...

[Yillara Skye 1]

See, with Lal it took a few transfers.. And after I think the third one Data mentions she has started into sentience. That is why I think B4 may not have been quite sentient yet. He was starting to ask questions, so he was starting to be aware of his surroundings. But, I don't think he was quite there until maybe the end of Nemesis.

[Lessa_Soong 0]

Not there yet, but it is possible for him to get there, i hope.

But i will never believe that he will be another Data...

It is my belief that Data had a soul. B-4's body does not hold Data's soul, so he cannot become Data.

[Tank 0]

I think of B4 as a child (not a perticlurly bright child mind you.) He has the potential to grow up to be everything Data was but he's not there yet. I don't think that he is aware of his surrounding enough yet to be considerd sentient, but in time I think it's possible.

[Yillara Skye 1]

I completely agree that B4 is a child and I know that he can never become Data. There is just no way!

[dsbs 0]

Well, that;s kind of like having 2 children and hoping the one will grow up to be "just like" the other one. If I have kids, I don't want them to be the same, I want them to be unique individuals (GOOD unique individuals, but you know what I mean), and that's what I think B4 will end up as.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

I agree dsbs and the whole point of B4 becoming a good individual will be because of the care he will receive from his new friends.

[Yillara Skye 1]

I agree with you , dsbs and Alterego. B4 does have his brother's friends to help him along.

[prometheus 0]

I would say not sentient: he lacks awareness as to who and what he is, and has no instincts. I dont mean that in the human way, i mean instincts in a logical ability to understand, react etc. I think that he's just a shell that will fill up with a copy of data.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Why would he fill up with a copy of Data? He has Data's memories, not his personallity.

[Yillara Skye 1]

I agree Picard! He does not have Data's personality, and I don't think he ever will because he is a completely different person. Data incorporated Lal's memories into his memory after her death and he didn't become her. As well as his memory transfer to Lal, didn't turn her into him, now did it??

 

Simply put, B4 can never become Data, and that is that.

[prometheus 0]

Nothing ever follow on accurately in Star Trek and depite what you say, B4 will become exactly like Data. His memories ARE his personality just as the way in which I behave and act (ie my personality) comes from all that I have seen and learned over the years of my life.

 

I mean it's obvious: why else would they have had B4 sing that little song at the end if not to show that B4 had Data's memories developing within him and to say "dont be sad. he's not dead, he's in here..."

[Lessa_Soong 0]

I mean it's obvious: why else would they have had B4 sing that little song

 

ah...because he was processing the memories and somehow that memory rose to the top. It does not mean that Data's memories were corrupting B-4's self. In a way you are almost hinting that you believe that Data had a soul and that it was stored in B-4 like a Katra and is now taking him over like Spock's katra took over McCoy.

[Takara_Soong 4]

Nothing ever follow on accurately in Star Trek and depite what you say, B4 will become exactly like Data. His memories ARE his personality just as the way in which I behave and act (ie my personality) comes from all that I have seen and learned over the years of my life.

 

How much B4 and Data are the same will depend more on how Brent Spiner plays B4 than anything the writers put on the page. As he has said he thinks B4 becoming Data would cheapen Data's demise then you can bet that B4 will NOT become Data.

 

The Sisters (Lessa, Yillara, DSBS and myself) would all like Data to be back if it can be done in a plausible manner just like many other people.

[Lessa_Soong 0]

exactly!

 

Brent has more power where Data is conserned then even we Sister's like at times. Brent wanted Data dead...Data is dead (so far) But Spiner had already stated quite clearly that he will not have B-4 turn into Data. He not only believes that it woudl cheapen Data's death, but he hints that it would not be very challenging for him as an actor.

[Yillara Skye 1]

exactly!

 

Brent has more power where Data is conserned then even we Sister's like at times. Brent wanted Data dead...Data is dead (so far) But Spiner had already stated quite clearly that he will not have B-4 turn into Data. He not only believes that it woudl cheapen Data's death, but he hints that it would not be very challenging for him as an actor.

Exactly, Brent is the one who will have the say on whether Data or B4 come back. He has the final say since he was one of the writers of Nemesis.

[dsbs 0]

Why would he fill up with a copy of Data?  He has Data's memories, not his personallity.

Thank you Picard and Yillara!! Besides, lets just say that memories=personality. Well, then, the point about Lal is valid. Also, Data had his memories over a period of time, and went through the actual experience. B4 got them all at once, and as Data said in The Schizoid Man (i think?) that transferring his memories into the computer would make them loose the "essence" of htem or something. It would jusst be electrical signals, and the actual experience would be lost. I rest my case!