Dark Reality 0 Posted December 7, 2005 Another Trek film that gets a lot of grief from the fans, I've noticed, is Star Trek IX: Insurrection. Personally, I love this movie. Of all the Trek films, I've seen it more than the others. And I would have to say it's my favorite TNG film. No contest. I even prefer it to First Contact - great movie, easily second among the TNG movies. A discussion about bad things about Insurrection popped up in another thread, which led me to want to defend it in a topic of its own. One "complaint" which popped up a couple times was the issue of the joystick, when Riker takes "manual control" of the Enterprise. I thought this was very cool, actually, and I still think it's cool every time. It's an ego trip is what it is, nothing more, nothing less. The Enterprise and all Federation ships (all ships, I think) are controlled by pushing buttons, there's no direct action involved, no steering wheel or flight stick. So for Riker to be able to call one up and use it to fly manually was awesome. Then a couple people were saying that the Enterprise should have been able to take better care of the Sona ships. First, Picard's crew has always let the enemy fire on them a few times before firing back. They're pushovers, but it's always been that way. Kirk or Sisko, probably even Janeway, commanding the Enterprise that day... the Sona wouldn't have had a chance. Plus, the Sona had a subspace weapon banned by the Kittomer (sp?) Accords, so they did have a heck of an unfair advantage. (Why they had to dump the core, rather than just shutting it down, or taking the antimatter injectors offline, is beyond me.) The third point I remember was the opera. Picard had a huge list of acts/scenes he could have picked from that play Data was rehearsing; surely he could have chosen a worse one. The lyrics of the song ended up appealing to Worf, and they had some significance to the struggle between Data and Picard/Worf at the time, too... from a certain point of view. "Insurrection" is by far the funniest of the Trek films. The only one which comes close is "The Voyage Home". TVH was funny in the out-of-place sense, and INS was funny in a broader sense. Comedy fans should have a great time with "Insurrection" - there was plenty of humor in that movie. I don't need to have a good laugh to enjoy a Star Trek film or episode, but it did add something to it. I'm not of American Indian descent, nor was I ever too interested in their history, but for some reason, I really liked the plot, which mirrored what early Americans did with the Native Americans, moving them from reservation to reservation to suit their needs/desires. As far as the rest of the plot, Picard and the main Baku woman's scenes were great. This is the kind of woman for Picard, and the development of their relationship worked good for the movie. The admiral was a little boring, possibly could have been done better, but what happened to his character (going from being in control to taking a back seat, not where he ended up) was also pretty good. The planet was amazing. Have they ever done such a beautiful world, at least in the ten movies? I don't think the Genesis planet was this cool. Action... who says First Contact is the only TNG movie with any action? Insurrection had action all throughout. The space battle was only rivaled by the one in Nemesis, and the scene with the Enterprise flying alongside the Collector was just wicked. I do have a couple questions about the movie, though. First, how is it Picard and his crew didn't know what was going on from the beginning? I believe Troi said they got everything they needed about "the duckblind mission". I don't know what "duckblind" means, but I assume since the Holoship was Federation, the Federation knew what was to be done with it. That said, would they approve the mission? I think they would have sided with Picard. I don't mean once the Enterprise reached communications range... I mean they wouldn't have approved the project from the beginning. And why again, could the Enterprise not have shot the Collector? Was it cloaked when the Enterprise was there in the first place? If not the Enterprise, couldn't that shuttle Data stole have done significant enough damage to it? If it came to it, they could have rammed the collector with the Holoship, while the Sona were still on it, THEN self-destructed it. Problem solved. So it's not perfect, but it's great fun to watch. :( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gul_nodrog 2 Posted December 8, 2005 I loathe this movie because of that Baku woman ... yawn. And 300 years to weave a blanket? PULEEZE. That doesn't sound much like paradise to me. I find the whole plot uninteresting, really, fountain of youth and all. There was so much more happening that the Enterprise should have been involved in (Dominion War anyone?) ... the Enterprise is the flagship fo the fleet and they've got them off worrying about a bunch of people on a planet we've never heard of and villains that just really aren't that scary. Bleck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Itchygomba69 0 Posted December 8, 2005 I like this movie, everyone knows that following first contact was a hard act to follow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dark Reality 0 Posted December 8, 2005 Dominion War? Didn't Picard or someone say, in the Turbolift on the way down to Ten Forward, that negotiations with the Dominion were underway? This would put Star Trek IX at the end of Deep Space Nine. The Dominion is no threat anymore. Besides, we didn't see a single Sovereign-class ship in the Dominion War. I was looking. So that there has me confused... if the Enterprise-D was already a junkpile on Veridian III and Picard had the Enterprise-E, and as Geordi says in First Contact, it's the most advanced ship in the fleet... why WASN'T it in the Dominion War? Starfleet didn't send the Enterprise to the Briar patch. Picard disobeyed orders again and went there in Data's defense. They were supposed to be going to some archaelogical dig or some other mundane task. First Contact was OK, but I actually preferred Insurrection. I liked the Borg a lot more in Voyager. Their coolness in First Contact, to me, was limited to their initial broadcast ("We are the Borg..."). That sounded cool, but after that they were just rather annoying. I used to like them a lot more, but it's since worn off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yillara Skye 1 Posted December 8, 2005 I loved all of the TNG films, and this one though not my favorite was not as bad as it was made out to be. THe plot was fine, and Yeah lets face it First Contact was an incredibly tough act to follow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Itchygomba69 0 Posted December 8, 2005 ^ I knew you would agree with me I need to watch Nemisis now! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kor37 9 Posted December 8, 2005 I think Insurrection is the worst of the TNG films. The plot was boring, as were the villians and the Admiral. Is EVERY Admiral in Starfleet corrupt? The so-called humour was childish and reminded me of the type of humour in ST 5 which I refer to as a parody of a Trek film as opposed to an actual film. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gul_nodrog 2 Posted December 8, 2005 ^Don't mince words, Kor, tell us how you REALLY feel! :( High five, dude, I couldn't agree with you more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dark Reality 0 Posted December 8, 2005 Insurrection was at least better than Nemesis. Nemesis did have its moments... the Scimitar was a cool ship, the ATV scene, the Enterprise collision scene, flying the shuttle in the Scimitar's corridors... it had its moments, but I thought Insurrection was the superior film. As far as weak villains, I never did like Shinzon. The Sona had the whole revenge thing going for them... Shinzon just had an identity crisis or something. (And he looked nothing like Picard, but for the fact that both men were bald, so the whole clone aspect bothered me.) Is every Starfleet admiral corrupt? Not Admiral Janeway. :( What other film had a corrupt Admiral? Oh yeah, The Undiscovered Country. How cool was that? Not very... that Admiral's treachery was only just mentioned, they didn't really go into it, and it wasn't much of a surprise. Admiral Dougherty's trek from the slightly corrupt but well meaning admiral to the really corrupt admiral was done much better. I won't argue that Undiscovered Country was or wasn't a better movie... that's not the point. (In my opinion, they're on equal footing, each good for its own reasons.) Oh, and it didn't take the Baku 300 years to make the blanket, either. The blanket was made by students, who are on their way to taking their place among the artists. That's what was said about the blanket. In 300 years the Baku woman never learned how to swim and never married. And who's to say that's not paradise? Those people were living a simple life by choice and they were loving it. That their homeworld is the most beautiful world in a Trek film yet has not been disputed, so I'd say they did have paradise. I can understand why some of you might not be comfortable with humor in Trek films. The episodes didn't have much humor. Some did, but a lot of it was the same. Like Data always saying the wrong thing at the wrong time, or rather the right thing at the wrong time. Or Worf getting frustrated, just being a Klingon on a Federation ship. Generations and First Contact, and Nemesis, but mostly Insurrection, really pushed the comedy. I thought it made for a more well-rounded movie experience. Remember, these films aren't quite as serious as the episodes, they're made to make money at the box office, and so, they want to appeal to the most people possible, including non-Trekkies who need something beyond what makes Trek a great franchise, by which to enjoy the film. Those of us who like Trek for what it is may have a hard time seeing that, but despite having seen all of DS9 and Voyager and most of TNG, and all the movies, I consider myself a movie lover more than a Trekkie, and Insurrection is a heck of a good movie. For me, the order of TNG films would go Insurrection / First Contact / Generations / Nemesis. It would be hard to integrate the Kirk movies into that, because they were so different. But I will say that Star Trek IV is one of my favorite movies of all time, and easily my favorite Trek film. The Wrath of Kahn is below that, but not far below... and yes, I do prefer TWOK to Insurrection. But as far as TSFS, TFF, and TUC, I can't say where I'd place them in my "list". Too many tough choices. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wishfire 2 Posted December 10, 2005 Insurrection was okay. It's basic plot has "Classic Trek" written all over it, but the movie itself wasn't all that spectacular. My major beef is that they used the movie to introduce a ne "alien of the week." It doesn't help that they did that again with Nemesis... Anyway, I wouldn't have minded the Bak'u or S'ona so much if they were secondary characters, kinda like Martia the Chameloid in ST:VI. Beyond that, Insurrection wasn't bad at all. Not great, but definitely not bad. It had some pretty good action scenes, and, like I said, it had that "Classic Trek" feel to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MANVERU 0 Posted December 10, 2005 I quite liked Insurection, but nothing compares to FC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dark Reality 0 Posted December 11, 2005 I watched First Contact again (I'm watching them backwards now - X, IX, VIII...) to see what all the hype was about. I still don't particularly care for the Borg aspect (though I did when it first came out) but what worked for me in FC was the whole idea of witnessing First Contact with the Vulcans, and how Lily was able to smack some sense into Picard. I had a couple problems with it, but I'll make that into another post if I think up enough points against it. Did it occur to anyone else that the Sona were part of the Dominion? That's right... the connection is not made officially in the movie, but Riker says that they are known for making the narcotic Ketracel (sp?) White. The first dozen or so times I watched this, the reference went right over my head. But I hadn't watched any DS9 at the time. Now that I have, I know that the White is what the Jem'hadar need to live, and that it was very hard to replicate in the Alpha Quadrant. But the Sona, with their enhanced mental abilities, were able to figure it out, like they were able to figure out the Collector, when the "Federation's best scientific minds" couldn't. So it never comes out and says the Sona are Dominion, but if you put two and two together, it becomes apparent. Is this in dispute? So if the Sona are Dominion, they are NOT a third-rate race; their ships are not third-rate. The Federation had plenty of problems with the Dominion on DS9. Granted, the Enterprise-E is the most advanced ship in the fleet (so says Geordi LaForge in First Contact, anyway), but like I said, they're pushovers in any fight. So I see no problem with the Enterprise's handling of the Sona in the nebula fight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wishfire 2 Posted December 12, 2005 I seriously doubt that the S'ona were part of the Dominion. If they were, there would be no way in hell that Starfleet would work with them, no matter what the potential gains might be. Considering that they produced Katracel White, I think it's more likely that they had a trade agreement with the Dominion. After all, they were producing powerful ships with advanced technology, so they probably needed funds to research and develop new tech. Such as the collector. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites