Itchygomba69 0 Posted July 8, 2005 Beside Jaz-dax, do you think a few other main characters should of died (sisko doesnt count, cause is he really dead or just chilling with the prophets) I think Odo should of died from the infection, for a real Tear-Jerker O'brien since he has a family, do you think anyone else should of died or am I just a sick person Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
APW 0 Posted July 8, 2005 One main cast member could have died,but it shouldn't have been Jadzia. Personally,I think Farrell made a mistake leaving the show when she did...there was only one season left,afterall....and it isn't as if that big screen thing ever developed for her (past a few parts in less than memorable roles,anyway :blink: ). Bashir,O'Brien,or even Quark would have been acceptable deaths....but not until the end of the final season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Validus 0 Posted July 19, 2005 Beside Jaz-dax, do you think a few other main characters should of died (sisko doesnt count, cause is he really dead or just chilling with the prophets) I think Odo should of died from the infection, for a real Tear-Jerker O'brien since he has a family, do you think anyone else should of died or am I just a sick person 338009[/snapback] I don't mean to sound bloodthirsty, but I feel that Sisko and most of the DS9 crew should have either been killed or at least had their stories resolved somehow. The way Season 7 ended was just so....unresolved. What eventually happens to DS9 itself? What happens to the planet Cardassia? This is why for me DS9 will never be able to compare with Babylon-5. Frankly I blame Rick Bermen, as I'm sure he entertained thoughts of a big budget DS9 film, which of course never happened. At the very least Sisko should have been allowed the dignity of a heroic death or at least a respectable retirement...as it is he didn't get either, and it makes me feel cheated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted July 28, 2005 DS9, being the best of all the Trek series ended just fine. I don't think any of the main characters should have died, Jadzia included. But I understand why they killed her, so they could continue with the Dax character. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted July 28, 2005 Agreed. I guess they couldn't really do anything about it if Terry Farrell wanted to leave, but replacing Jadzia with Ezri was the only thing about DS9 I didn't like. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted July 28, 2005 Ezri doesn't get a fair shake in most circles. We had 7 years to get to know the other characters but we had to get to know Ezri in 1 season. I thought she was good in her role and I don't think I'd change anything about season 7 if I had the power to do so... other then writing Kai Winn out. Or at least scaling her role down by about 90%. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted July 28, 2005 I would have used the time devoted to Ezri to see some of the political workings of the Federation. Perhaps seeing the President Of The Federation and how he/she reacted during the Dominion War, back on Earth. I would have liked to see debates and arguments inside the Federation Council and how the Federation public reacted to the conflict. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted July 28, 2005 Cut Kai Winn's role to do that, show us more of Ezri though. She's a main character, we needed to get to know her. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted July 28, 2005 I wouldn't have cut Winn's role because the story of Bajorans deliverance was central to the underlying plot of DS9 which concerned their recovery after Occupation, the complexities of their faith and the journey of the Emissary. The Bajoran spiritual leader was more essential than an annoying counselor. Winn's role was needed to deal with the Prophet/Pah-Wraith conflict and the situation with Dukat and Sisko which had been building since the first episode and that meeting in the Ops office. I would have cut Ezri's role entirely and implemented my own idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gul_nodrog 2 Posted July 28, 2005 DAX should have died when Jadzia did. That would have been very interesting to see what happens on Trill when a SYMBIONT died. And, of course, had that happened there would have been no EZRI. ick. I hated Kai Winn, too, but I'm with the King. She was necessary and certainly someone who gave us a character to hate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted July 28, 2005 Like I said before once, if they REALLY wanted another Dax character to appear, I would have written it so that the new Host wasn't a Starfleet officer but just visited the station in one episode only to bring the Dax character's story to a final end. The twist? The new Host would be a man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gul_nodrog 2 Posted July 28, 2005 Like I said before once, if they REALLY wanted another Dax character to appear, I would have written it so that the new Host wasn't a Starfleet officer but just visited the station in one episode only to bring the Dax character's story to a final end. The twist? The new Host would be a man. 344196[/snapback] Now that would have put Worf's panties in a twist! Of course, Sisko wouldn't have cared he always thought of Dax as a man anyway. We already had the eye-candy in Leeta, so Farrell's departure didn't leave a void in that department. And Farrell left for "Becker," not the big screen. I really don't blame her, but I was sorry to see her go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted July 28, 2005 When I watch the final arc the only part that I dislike is the Winn/Dukat portion. I don't believe it was necessary to include that as part if the final plot. Good writers could have come up with better stories. Her demise could have been summed up in 1 episode. As for Ezri, like I said she doesn't get a fair shake. Take her or leave her, she's there and part of Trek history now. If a DS9 movie was ever made she would in all likelyhood be part of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted July 28, 2005 (edited) When I watch the final arc the only part that I dislike is the Winn/Dukat portion. I don't believe it was necessary to include that as part if the final plot. Good writers could have come up with better stories. Her demise could have been summed up in 1 episode. Personally I thought the DS9 writing staff was excellent. I think aside from the inclusion of Ezri, the way they handled the final arc was superb, including the Winn/Dukat aspect. As for Ezri, like I said she doesn't get a fair shake. Take her or leave her, she's there and part of Trek history now. If a DS9 movie was ever made she would in all likelyhood be part of it. I don't dispute the fact she is a part of Star Trek history, I just felt the character was an unnecessary addition so late in the run. If she was going to be part of a DS9 movie, then it's probably a good thing they'll never make one. Edited July 28, 2005 by HRH The KING Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Itchygomba69 0 Posted July 28, 2005 That is Harsh, Still for there being a War where Millions Died, more deaths should of been on the front with the the Station being the Front more should of Died Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted July 29, 2005 Personally I thought the DS9 writing staff was excellent. As do I. Ira Steven Behr is one of the best in the business. I think aside from the inclusion of Ezri, As I said, poor Ezri never gets a fair shake. the way they handled the final arc was superb, including the Winn/Dukat aspect. I agree with the exception of the Winn stuff. Her character shouldn't have made it past the final episode of the first season. I don't dispute the fact she is a part of Star Trek history, I just felt the character was an unnecessary addition so late in the run. I guess we can be glad that TPTB are the ones that make the decisions (most of the time). If she was going to be part of a DS9 movie, then it's probably a good thing they'll never make one. I guess we can be glad that TPTB are the ones that make the decisions (most of the time). :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted July 29, 2005 (edited) Click For Spoiler As do I. Ira Steven Behr is one of the best in the business. He sure is. Check these out. Both from Trek Today. The first is from November 2004. The second is from this past week: Of his work on DS9, Behr said he thought the series had "told a pretty compelling story over seven seasons" and created very full characters. "By the end of the show, whether you liked them or not, you really did know who Odo was, who Sisko was, who Nerys was, and I'm proud of that," he noted. "The other thing is that Martok, Brunt, Weyoun and other supporting players have more development than most of the lead characters in the other series." Behr was even more pleased with how the series pulled together over seven seasons, despite some drastic changes like the arrival of Worf and the departure of Jadzia Dax when Terry Farrell left the show. "I guess the thing I'm most proud of is the idea that when all is said and done and you look at the show in its totality, you do see a story with a beginning, middle and an end. It really does hang together despite all of the curveballs we were thrown," he observed. Developing the religious-themed stories pleased the executive producer as well: "When we were told that Paramount was getting tired of political/Bajor stories, we came up with religion, and for some reason that didn't bother them. We were able to take problems and turn them into virtues." Behr was invited by Star Trek: Enterprise executive producers Rick Berman and Brannon Braga to a meeting to give professional input on why the show was not achieving as well as previous Star Trek series, but he does not believe his contributions were incorporated into the show, which he has not watched since. "I'm sure that as soon as they left the meeting they stabbed my picture with a knife!" he joked. "From what I understand, Brannon assembled the writing staff the following day and said, 'You know what? We have a pretty damn good show here and it doesn't matter what people say! We're going to stay the course here.' Of course, I'm hearing this second or third hand." However, he said he and Berman remain on cordial terms socially. David Weddle's introduction to writing for Star Trek and, now, the revival of Battlestar Galactica came not because he had science fiction television experience, but because he had written a biography of a movie director that was a favourite of producer Ira Steven Behr. Behr had read Weddle's 1994 book on film director Sam Peckinpah, If They Move...Kill 'Em!, and invited the writer to tour the sets at Paramount. "Being a shameless opportunist, I asked if I could pitch story ideas to his show," admitted Weddle to SyFy Portal. "Ira generously said yes." That pitch led to the episode "Rules of Engagement", in which Worf was on trial for a potential war crime, and eventually 11 other DS9 episodes by Weddle and writing partner Bradley Thompson. "Ron Moore ended up writing the teleplay based on our story. After he finished, we sent him a thank you note, and Ron sent us all the drafts of the script -- which was another tremendous educational experience," recalled Weddle. "It gave us a window into the evolutionary process of TV writing." Once Moore left the cast of Star Trek: Voyager, he and Weddle lost touch, but the two met at a Director's Guild screening of the new Battlestar Galactica miniseries which, Weddle said, "blew me away!" He told Moore of his feelings and was invited along with Thompson to become co-producers of the new series, where they wrote first-season episodes "Act of Contrition" and "Hand of God." "None of it would be possible without Ira Behr, who took a chance on us, taught us the craft of television writing, and showed all of us - Ron included - what could be accomplished when working with the epic canvas of a science-fiction series," Weddle marveled. "Most shows find their second life in DVD box sets, audiences are gravitating to those with continuing storylines. 'Deep Space Nine' was a transitional series. It was supposed to be composed of self-contained episodes, but Ira Behr slyly moved it into an ongoing narrative with continuing storylines." "This is where Ron and Brad and I learned the craft of the new generation of TV shows, just as 'Sopranos' was hitting the air and transforming television," he added. As I said, poor Ezri never gets a fair shake. I agree to a certain extent. She came in when the Dominion Arc was in the final stretch. Not IMO the best time to introduce a character like hers. I guess we can be glad that TPTB are the ones that make the decisions (most of the time). :) :) Edited July 29, 2005 by HRH The KING Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Validus 0 Posted July 29, 2005 DS9, being the best of all the Trek series ended just fine. I don't think any of the main characters should have died, Jadzia included. But I understand why they killed her, so they could continue with the Dax character. 344154[/snapback] I must respectfully disagree. The ending of DS9 was totally arbitrary, lacking either substance or pathos. Again- none of the characters get their stories resolved, and this weakness will always hang over all the Star Trek shows. This is in stark contrast to something like Blake's 7, or Babylon-5. The bottomline is that we do not know the ultimate fates of Sisko, Odo, Worf, Kira, or even Quark... For me that just isn't good enough. Personally I think DS-9 should have been blown to bits defending Bajor with Sisko on the bridge, surrounded by flames, fighting until the last minute against the Dominion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted July 30, 2005 If they killed characters and destroyed DS9 or blew up Bajor then it would leave less stories for future (possible) movies. Why limit yourself? I agree that we need some resolution or at least continuation of the stories that you mention. Short of having a movie or mini-series we'll have to be happy with what we have. For me personally, aside from the "Winn/Dukat Arc" I'm happy with the final 6 episodes and in all honesty for all of my "Winn complaining" I probably wouldn't change much if anything if I had the power to do so. I can't speak on the topic of Blake's 7 or Babylon-5 though because I've never seen even a single episode. In fact I've never even heard of Blake's 7 and have no idea what it is. For me though DS9 is the ultimate Trek series and very little that they did was "wrong". Ira Steven Behr, in my opinion is a "god" in the Trek universe. I only wish that TPTB would have called upon him (and listened to him) with Enterprise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted July 30, 2005 I was happy with the final episode. Not everything has to be fully explained down to the last detail. They can leave some things to your imagination and leaving things open-ended can give them options for a later Trek show set after that time period. Blakes7 was a BBC sci-fi show from the Late 70's-Early 80's. I haven't seen a single episode of it either: Wikipedia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gul_nodrog 2 Posted July 30, 2005 I wasn't thrilled with DS9's ending (most definitely because I didn't want it to end!) But, we DO know what is happening to all the characters ... -Sisko's communing with the Prophets who engineered his birth -Jake's a writer -Kasidy is pregnant with the Emissary's child and will wait for Sisko -Odo went home to his people -Bashir finally got his Dax -Worf is the Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire(I'm going to completely ignore the demasculation of Worf that occurred in Nemesis) -Martok is the Klingon Chancellor -Kira's in command of DS9 and may or may not wait for Odo to return. Let's face it, that chick gets around. -Garak got to go back home to Cardassia and is helping to rebuild it -O'Brien and family are on Earth with Miles teaching at the Academy -Quark is running his bar where he's always been with each DS9/Terok Noir change of hand -Rom's the Nagus -Nog's in Starfleet -Winn is dead (hallelujah) -Dukat is dead (how sad really) -I think that it is pretty cool that Bajor never joined the Federation. Bajor is so spiritual, they would be hard-pressed to fit in with the secular Federation. Obviously there was going to be no final resolution to any of the characters ... I prefer to think that their lives have gone on, we just don't have a bird's eye view anymore. Geez, I really miss this crazy show. I tried to watch Babylon 5 .... sorry, big yawn for me. Never heard of that other one. Basically, I think that DS9 more or less ruined me for any other Trek, because I couldn't even sit through an episode of Enterprise. I'm sure it was a perfectly acceptable program, my heart just was not in it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted July 30, 2005 I agree Nodrog. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted July 31, 2005 -Dukat is dead (how sad really) 344560[/snapback] We don't really know if he's dead or not, he could be trapped with the Pa Wraiths in a similar way that Sisko is with the Profits. If a movie was ever made (which I know likely never will be made) we could see Dukat as the bad guy and Sisko must come back to stop him once and for all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gul_nodrog 2 Posted July 31, 2005 -Dukat is dead (how sad really) 344560[/snapback] We don't really know if he's dead or not, he could be trapped with the Pa Wraiths in a similar way that Sisko is with the Profits. If a movie was ever made (which I know likely never will be made) we could see Dukat as the bad guy and Sisko must come back to stop him once and for all. 344732[/snapback] That would be awesome ... :biggrin: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Susan_Delgado 0 Posted August 16, 2005 DAX should have died when Jadzia did. That would have been very interesting to see what happens on Trill when a SYMBIONT died. 344195[/snapback] Now you're talking .... that could have been an excellent one or two part episode. And Jadzia's death would have been WAY more tragic and profound if Dax had died along with her. I love it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted August 17, 2005 I was disappointed that Jadzia was killed off but I think her death would have been better if it had happened in "Change of Heart" rather then waiting for the end of the season. As for killing Dax off, I think it was far more interesting to see how an unprepared trill dealt with having the symbiont 'thrust' upon them unexpectedly. I know I'm in the minority but I liked Ezri. Not as much as Jadzia but I liked her. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Susan_Delgado 0 Posted August 17, 2005 I was disappointed that Jadzia was killed off but I think her death would have been better if it had happened in "Change of Heart" rather then waiting for the end of the season. As for killing Dax off, I think it was far more interesting to see how an unprepared trill dealt with having the symbiont 'thrust' upon them unexpectedly. I know I'm in the minority but I liked Ezri. Not as much as Jadzia but I liked her. 347741[/snapback] I would agree with that statement ... it would have been a much more poignant death in "Change of Heart." As it was, the death itself seemed very abrupt to me. It was almost like they were trying to off the character in the most meaningless way they could do it ... maybe to punish Farrell for leaving? I dunno. I wish that someone would just spill the beans on what really went down with Farrell's departure! You know, a real "Behind the Music" style expose .... You know, I hated Ezri Dax the first time I watched Season 7 (on t.v.). Then we got the DVDs and have watched the series twice now beginning to end. (We're in the middle of the third coming up on Season 6). With repeated viewings, I find her less annoying than I did originally. I may love her this time through! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Itchygomba69 0 Posted August 22, 2005 but we gotta have the season ending Cliffhanger for ratings, who wil replace her and so on Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted August 22, 2005 You know, I hated Ezri Dax the first time I watched Season 7 (on t.v.). Then we got the DVDs and have watched the series twice now beginning to end. (We're in the middle of the third coming up on Season 6). With repeated viewings, I find her less annoying than I did originally. I may love her this time through! 347805[/snapback] I've defended her quite a bit on here as well as at ST.COM in the past and not just because of the cuteness factor either lol. Like I've said in the past, we didn't really have enough time to get to know her and trying to replace a somewhat beloved character is always hard to do. I think she did a good job of it given the circumstances. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites