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Theunicornhunter

The Greatest American

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Come on the greatest american. The father of are

country. George Washington. Look all over the

east coast nothing but george washington slept

here. signs if he slept every where he was not alone :jaw:

he is the truly the greastest american :jaw:

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The greatest work any man can do is to write, so the greatest American would have to be America's greatest writer. Tough to pick, but I'll go with:

 

Edgar Allen Poe

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I still feel that Lincoln would have been the best choice.

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That was my feeling as well. No offense to Reagan fans but I wonder if he'll be as highly regarded 140 years after his time as Lincoln is after his.

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I still feel that Lincoln would have been the best choice.

340045[/snapback]

 

Lincoln? Well...I can see why some people might pick him, but upon closer examination you might want to rethink that option. Lincoln was an admitted racist who felt certain that black people were inferior (and would always be inferior) to white people. He often said that if he could have preserved the Union and kept slavery in place, he would've. He also suspended habias corpus during the Cival War, effectively making the United States a police state. The Cival War was the second most incompetantly fought war in American history (after Vietnam) and should have not lasted more then 6 months...instead it lingered on for 4 miserable years and half a million dead were the result. Lincoln's promise of 40 achers and a mule for all freed slaves proved to be one of his bigger lies. As it is it took 100 more years and JFK to finally crush segregation in the South, something all other Presidents (except for Truman) totally ignored.

 

I would say that Washington is superior to Lincoln in many respects, not the least of which being that he was offered a monarchy and flatly turned it down -something I think very few men could resist. While Washington did own slaves, he had them all freed after his death.

 

Ronald Reagan? Who on Earth would pick someone like him? Reagan was a man who was blatantly in favor of the rich and powerful, who never supported organized labor, and lied almost as much as Richard Nixon -especially with regards the Iran/Contra Scandel. The only reason Reagan got away with it is because he didn't have a taping system like Nixon (which is ultimately what brought now tricky D*ck more then anything).

Edited by Validus

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No offense to Lincoln lovers,but I don't hold "Honest Abe" in very high regard.

Reagan was an excellent choice,and not one that I expected.

As far as I'm concerned,my parents were the "Greatest Americans"...considering where they came from and what they were able to build together...a great family,a home,a successful farm.

But since they weren't nominated,I would have picked Reagan or Billy Graham.

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No offense to Lincoln lovers,but I don't hold "Honest Abe" in very high regard.

Reagan was an excellent choice,and not one that I expected.

As far as I'm concerned,my parents were the "Greatest Americans"...considering where they came from and what they were able to build together...a great family,a home,a successful farm.

But since they weren't nominated,I would have picked Reagan or Billy Graham.

340613[/snapback]

 

[Picks self up after hitting the floor with a deafening thud]

 

Ronald Reagan or Billy Graham...........??????????????

 

You have got to be joking!!!!

 

How could you pick -THEM....???

 

Billy Graham is nothing but a Bible thumping fanatic whose only goal is to spread Christianity like a plague, take way a woman's right to chose, oppress gay people, and line his pockets with the money he bleeds from his astonishingly gullible followers.

 

Ronald Reagan was a whore for the ultra-rich, and shafted the poor every single chance he got. How can you pick him given that he was such a blatant liar? Did you ever look at the details of the Iran/Contra scandal? Again- the only reason Reagan didn't get impeached was because he was a bit smarter then Nixon in covering it up...that hardly makes him a "great" American. The legacy of Ronald Reagan can be seen in the endless numbers of homeless people he helped create because of his brutal cuts in social programs. He also ignored the AIDS crisis, which ment that the centers for disease control were unable to do their jobs, again because of cuts made by him and his right wing sycophants.

 

When I think about the great men and women whom this nation has produced and that you would chose those two over them...frankly I am deeply offended.

Edited by Validus

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No offense to Lincoln lovers,but I don't hold "Honest Abe" in very high regard.

Reagan was an excellent choice,and not one that I expected.

As far as I'm concerned,my parents were the "Greatest Americans"...considering where they came from and what they were able to build together...a great family,a home,a successful farm.

But since they weren't nominated,I would have picked Reagan or Billy Graham.

340613[/snapback]

 

[Picks self up after hitting the floor with a deafening thud]

 

Ronald Reagan or Billy Graham...........??????????????

 

You have got to be joking!!!!

 

How could you pick -THEM....???

 

Billy Graham is nothing but a Bible thumping fanatic whose only goal is to spread Christianity like a plague, take way a woman's right to chose, oppress gay people, and line his pockets with the money he bleeds from his astonishingly gullible followers.

 

Ronald Reagan was a whore for the ultra-rich, and shafted the poor every single chance he got. How can you pick him given that he was such a blatant liar? Did you ever look at the details of the Iran/Contra scandal? Again- the only reason Reagan didn't get impeached was because he was a bit smarter then Nixon in covering it up...that hardly makes him a "great" American. The legacy of Ronald Reagan can be seen in the endless numbers of homeless people he helped create because of his brutal cuts in social programs. He also ignored the AIDS crisis, which ment that the centers for disease control were unable to do their jobs, again because of cuts made by him and his right wing sycophants.

 

When I think about the great men and women whom this nation has produced and that you would chose those two over them...frankly I am deeply offended.

340944[/snapback]

 

Billy Graham is not a fanatic. He doesn't hate people either. He was there long before Roe v. Wade. Anyways he isn't that rich either. his money goes back to pay the volunteers for their work.

 

Ronald reagan was not a whore for the ultra Rich. What evidence do you have of that? Iran Contra was really interesting because of the CARE FOR AMERICAN LIVES. Anyways how can you cover up something in front of a Senate judiciary committee? Their power of subpoena can get even the president arrested. Interesting that you don't mention that he helped dissolve Soviet Russia. He was known to be a compassionate leader who loved the people with an optimistic glow. Even the oposing party loved him because of his optimism. AIDS crisis... It's not his fault that people decided to have sex with everybody they knew. There are reasons why you're supposed to stay with one partner.

 

How can you be offended? Yes a man who advised numerous presidents and the other one--one of the greatest presidents of American history?

 

It's a crime for someone to practice their religion? It's a crime to be a compassionate leader?

 

Who would you choose?

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Billy Graham is not a fanatic. He doesn't hate people either. He was there long before Roe v. Wade. Anyways he isn't that rich either. his money goes back to pay the volunteers for their work.

 

Ronald reagan was not a whore for the ultra Rich. What evidence do you have of that? Iran Contra was really interesting because of the CARE FOR AMERICAN LIVES. Anyways how can you cover up something in front of a Senate judiciary committee? Their power of subpoena can get even the president arrested. Interesting that you don't mention that he helped dissolve Soviet Russia. He was known to be a compassionate leader who loved the people with an optimistic glow. Even the oposing party loved him because of his optimism. AIDS crisis... It's not his fault that people decided to have sex with everybody they knew. There are reasons why you're supposed to stay with one partner.

 

How can you be offended? Yes a man who advised numerous presidents and the other one--one of the greatest presidents of American history?

 

It's a crime for someone to practice their religion? It's a crime to be a compassionate leader?

 

Who would you choose?

340976[/snapback]

 

Several points need to be made:

 

1. That Billy Graham hates people is rather obvious. He has often spoken against Muslims, Atheists, Gay people, scientists just doing their jobs, and anyone who "dares to question America".

 

2. Billy Graham is flithy rich. Sure, he gives away just enough to keeo the IRS at bay, but he wears armani suits ($3,000.00 a shot) and owns almost as much land as could fill up 6 golf courses.

 

3. You are correct, he was here long before Roe vs Wade...and he's been trying to tear it down ever since (him and that idiot who runs "Operation Rescue").

 

4. If you really think that Reagan did what he did for American lives, you are naive. You are also forgetting the point. The point is that he told the world, and more then once, "This administration will not deal with terrorists." So he lied, blatantly, and made our entire country look stupid in front of our enemies and our allies all at once. He also allowed a loose-cannon Marine Lt. Colonel conduct US Foreign policy without supervision which is also very much against the law. The result of Reagans bungling was that Iran got its hands on more then 2,000 shoulder-mounted surface-to-air missles for free, not to mention a ton of other weapons and money.

 

5. Yes- Ronald Reagan was a whore for the ultra-rich. His tax-cuts were almost all for the top 10% and for big companies. he also was instrumental in deregulating certain laws that allow big companies to swollow their smaller compedators whole or simply bully them into the gutter. Reagan also cut social programs designed to help the poor and needy, which he then refunneled into the war machine at the Pentagon and the CIA.

 

If you doubt any of this I suggest you look it up and do some much needed reading.

 

6. You don't think people can lie to a senate commitee? You are shockingly naive if you believe that. Reagan, Bush Sr. and Poindexter lied their tails off and got away with it. It also helped that the Tower Commission was run by Senator John Tower...a Republican whose bias was obvious.

 

7. Reagan ignored the AIDS crisis, which was actually spread initially not by gay people having sex but by the entire blood supply being tainted and no one willing to either admit it or not willing to foot the bill for a reliable screening test when it would have done the most good. Most victims of HIV in the early 80's were heterosexuals who'd gotten tainted blood from blood banks and then unknowingly spread it to others. Reagan knew and Reagan did nothing...which makes him and his cabinet culpable in all those deaths. At the very least they are accessories after the fact.

 

I would gently remind you that Billy Graham thought the Vietnam war was a good idea. He was also an ardent Nixon supporter. In short- he was a moraly bankrupt idiot.

 

Reagan was not compassionate at all and his record proves that again and again. I have nothing against anyone practicing their religion unless to do so includes shafting people who don't share your beliefs (which Reagan and Billy Graham did, and often).

 

Christians could do much for their image by doing less both in politics and in economics.

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Billy Graham is not a fanatic. He doesn't hate people either. He was there long before Roe v. Wade. Anyways he isn't that rich either. his money goes back to pay the volunteers for their work.

 

Ronald reagan was not a whore for the ultra Rich. What evidence do you have of that? Iran Contra was really interesting because of the CARE FOR AMERICAN LIVES. Anyways how can you cover up something in front of a Senate judiciary committee? Their power of subpoena can get even the president arrested. Interesting that you don't mention that he helped dissolve Soviet Russia. He was known to be a compassionate leader who loved the people with an optimistic glow. Even the oposing party loved him because of his optimism. AIDS crisis... It's not his fault that people decided to have sex with everybody they knew. There are reasons why you're supposed to stay with one partner.

 

How can you be offended? Yes a man who advised numerous presidents and the other one--one of the greatest presidents of American history?

 

It's a crime for someone to practice their religion? It's a crime to be a compassionate leader?

 

Who would you choose?

340976[/snapback]

 

Several points need to be made:

 

1. That Billy Graham hates people is rather obvious. He has often spoken against Muslims, Atheists, Gay people, scientists just doing their jobs, and anyone who "dares to question America".

 

2. Billy Graham is flithy rich. Sure, he gives away just enough to keeo the IRS at bay, but he wears armani suits ($3,000.00 a shot) and owns almost as much land as could fill up 6 golf courses.

 

3. You are correct, he was here long before Roe vs Wade...and he's been trying to tear it down ever since (him and that idiot who runs "Operation Rescue").

 

4. If you really think that Reagan did what he did for American lives, you are naive. You are also forgetting the point. The point is that he told the world, and more then once, "This administration will not deal with terrorists." So he lied, blatantly, and made our entire country look stupid in front of our enemies and our allies all at once. He also allowed a loose-cannon Marine Lt. Colonel conduct US Foreign policy without supervision which is also very much against the law. The result of Reagans bungling was that Iran got its hands on more then 2,000 shoulder-mounted surface-to-air missles for free, not to mention a ton of other weapons and money.

 

5. Yes- Ronald Reagan was a whore for the ultra-rich. His tax-cuts were almost all for the top 10% and for big companies. he also was instrumental in deregulating certain laws that allow big companies to swollow their smaller compedators whole or simply bully them into the gutter. Reagan also cut social programs designed to help the poor and needy, which he then refunneled into the war machine at the Pentagon and the CIA.

 

If you doubt any of this I suggest you look it up and do some much needed reading.

 

6. You don't think people can lie to a senate commitee? You are shockingly naive if you believe that. Reagan, Bush Sr. and Poindexter lied their tails off and got away with it. It also helped that the Tower Commission was run by Senator John Tower...a Republican whose bias was obvious.

 

7. Reagan ignored the AIDS crisis, which was actually spread initially not by gay people having sex but by the entire blood supply being tainted and no one willing to either admit it or not willing to foot the bill for a reliable screening test when it would have done the most good. Most victims of HIV in the early 80's were heterosexuals who'd gotten tainted blood from blood banks and then unknowingly spread it to others. Reagan knew and Reagan did nothing...which makes him and his cabinet culpable in all those deaths. At the very least they are accessories after the fact.

 

I would gently remind you that Billy Graham thought the Vietnam war was a good idea. He was also an ardent Nixon supporter. In short- he was a moraly bankrupt idiot.

 

Reagan was not compassionate at all and his record proves that again and again. I have nothing against anyone practicing their religion unless to do so includes shafting people who don't share your beliefs (which Reagan and Billy Graham did, and often).

 

Christians could do much for their image by doing less both in politics and in economics.

341032[/snapback]

 

Wow. Have you ever seen Billy Graham preach? BTW he owns a ranch. It's not that big of a deal 50 years ago.

 

http://www.time.com/time/time100/heroes/pr...e/graham01.html

 

 

 

I'm sorry but you're saying that those who oppose abortion are morally bankrupt? They're're not the ones killing babies. The woman gets pregnant 90% of the time on her own not because she's been raped. That's only 3-4% of abortions. another 56-% are those who can't survive pregnancy. BTW HIV wouldn't spread first without unprotected sex. It was before the blood transfusions. How else could they get into the network. You don't need a screening test for AIDS if you don't have it...

 

Oh and BTW scientists just don't come up with screening tests overnight... It's not that easy...

 

also over 2/3 of all americans approved of Ronald Reagan's two terms. It was the highest rating for any retiring president since World War II. He's not bad considering he won a landslide vote in 1984...

 

Even if he had Iran Contra, he apologized for it. Clinton didn't apologize for perjury.

 

His supply side economics didn't gain much support but he did cut income tax rates sharply, created economic growth without inflation (went below 4%), and reduced the unemployment rate. Not bad.

 

this is research: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-261.html

 

mmmm.... think tank....

 

It's interesting that most of the U.S. is composed of Christians. Note: CHRISTIANS. Let's blank out all the U.S. presidents except for Jefferson who was a deist. What are you left with? Take away Martin Luther King Jr. Take away most ofthe politicians. You seriously can't make that argument.

 

Same with the economy.

 

 

You still have not answered me. Who would you pick? Don't tell me Jimmy Carter.

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Wow. Have you ever seen Billy Graham preach? BTW he owns a ranch. It's not that big of a deal 50 years ago.

 

http://www.time.com/time/time100/heroes/pr...e/graham01.html

 

 

 

I'm sorry but you're saying that those who oppose abortion are morally bankrupt? They're're not the ones killing babies. The woman gets pregnant 90% of the time on her own not because she's been raped. That's only 3-4% of abortions. another 56-% are those who can't survive pregnancy. BTW HIV wouldn't spread first without unprotected sex. It  was before the blood transfusions. How else could they get into the network. You don't need a screening test for AIDS if you don't have it...

 

Oh and BTW scientists just don't come up with screening tests overnight... It's not that easy...

 

also over 2/3 of all americans approved of Ronald Reagan's two terms. It was the highest rating for any retiring president since World War II. He's not bad considering he won a landslide vote in 1984...

 

Even if he had Iran Contra, he apologized for it. Clinton didn't apologize for perjury.

 

His supply side economics didn't gain much support but he did cut income tax rates sharply, created economic growth without inflation (went below 4%), and reduced the unemployment rate. Not bad.

 

this is research: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-261.html

 

mmmm.... think tank....

 

It's interesting that most of the U.S. is composed of Christians. Note: CHRISTIANS. Let's blank out all the U.S. presidents except for Jefferson who was a deist. What are you left with? Take away Martin Luther King Jr. Take away most ofthe politicians. You seriously can't make that argument.

 

Same with the economy.

 

 

You still have not answered me. Who would you pick? Don't tell me Jimmy Carter.

341082[/snapback]

 

Several more points clearly need to be made, I see.

 

1. Apoligizing for Iran/Contra doesn't excuse it or make it right. We don't pardon a mass-muderer just because he says "ooops...sorry about that."

 

2. Abortion isn't murder and I would challenge you to find me a single passage in the Bible that supports such a ridiculous alligation (use either the KJV or the NIV, doesn't matter to me).

 

3. Scientists could have come up with a screening test but again- the Reagan administration DID NOTHING while thousands of people were getting tainted blood without fair warning that the blood they were receiving might be HIV+. Reagan could have OK'd the funds (which would have been less then one tenth the cost of a stealth bomber) and fixed the problem -he didn't and therefore he is culpable for his lack of competence in allowing a dangerous disease to spread among the American population unchecked through the very hospitals that were suppose to heal rather then harm.

 

4. Just because two thirds of the idiots in this country thought Reagan was a nice guy doesn't mean a damn thing. Two thirds of the world don't think Jesus was anyone but a nice Jewish boy who came to a bad end -now, are you going to give up your religion just because of that? No, so don't hand me such useless statistics. There was once a time when more then 90% of the world believed the world was flat...and they were all wrong. Truth has nothing to do with Majority and never did.

 

5. I have no idea where your getting your statistics, but under Reagan (especially in his second term) unemployment went up as did the number of homeless people.

 

I would also remind you that Reagan's legacy of dereglation has made it much easier for big companies to lay off workers, bust unions, and deny benefits. Hardly something to be proud of. :(

 

6. You make the fact that most Americans are Christians sound like a "good" thing. I would remind you that Christians thought 400 years of black slavery was a good idea. I would remind you that Christians thought denying blacks and native-Americans cival rights was a good idea. I would remind you that Christians were the first to build, use, and stockpile Nuclear Weapons. I would remind you that Christians thought denying women the right to vote was a good idea until they were defeated by the sufferage movement in 1920. I would remind you that Christians were behind the Jim Crow Laws (Segregation) and kept them in place until fairly recently. Christians have contributed to the suffering of so many people that it literally stupifies the human mind to try and grasp it.

 

You also forgot that Abraham Lincoln was an Atheist (his letters confirm this) and John Quincy Adams was a Unitarian, and denied the divinity of Jesus.

Edited by Validus

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[You have to remember that George W. Bush won the Presidency by the largest margin since his father did in 1988 with 48,886,097 (53.4% of the popular vote). In 1992 Bill Clinton won with 44,909,326 (43.0% of the popular vote) and in 1996 he won with 47,401,898 (49.2% of the popular vote). In 2000 George W. Bush won with 50,461,092 (47.9% of the popular vote) and in 2004 he won with 60,693,281 (51% of the popular vote). 

 

In fact, no other President in US history has had more people vote for him then George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan comes in second with total of 98,350,291 votes for 1980 and 1984, Bill Clinton is in third place with a total of 92,311,224 votes for 1992 and 1996 and George W. Bush had a total of 111,154,373 votes for 2000 and 2004. So looking at those numbers a case can be made that it wasn't George W. Bush that has polarized Americans (going under the assumption that we are polarized). I submit that it has been his opponents that have been the polarizing influences. I can understand how an outsider may view it incorrectly though, a lot of the media tend to have their own political agendas and that goes a long way in shaping peoples opinions.

 

I say that George W. Bush does indeed belong on the list if for no other reason then how he rose up in defense of our nation against our enemies, I shudder to think of how some of his opponents would have dealt with some of the issues that he has had to.  Mistakes were made, but I'll take those mistakes over inaction every time.

 

Should George W. Bush win the title? Maybe, maybe  not. But he does deserve to be in the top 25.

 

329496[/snapback]

 

I would gently remind you that George W. Bush has not risen to the defence of anything. What he has done is send good men to die and be maimed for lousy pay in a war that we have no buisness fighting in. Iraq has never once attacked the United States and Saddam Hussein used to work for us.

 

I would also remind you that President Bush is nothing more then a meaningless figurehead who represents a vast coalition of interests including (but not limited too) the Pentago, the CIA, the FBI, the National Security Council, Big Tobacco, and most of the movers on the Fortune 500. Bush (like Ronald Reagan) has proven to be very much an ally of the ultra-rich and ultra-powerful and cares nothing for the poor, the needy, and those who earn less then $120,000 a year. In short, he is a soul-less cypher who does what he is told by the powers-that-be which no one voted for.

 

Clinton was no saint, but at least he could form a coherent thought on his own and express it without a teleprompter.

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With all due respect for your political opinions,Validus....I posted the men I would have voted for,and I don't need somebody badgering me about my picks.

 

I do believe this topic was about who we members here would pick/vote for.Not a place to debate the merits of Republicans/Democrats...Conservatives/liberals.You can do that easily enough elsewhere at this site.

 

:(

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Wow. Have you ever seen Billy Graham preach? BTW he owns a ranch. It's not that big of a deal 50 years ago.

 

http://www.time.com/time/time100/heroes/pr...e/graham01.html

 

 

 

I'm sorry but you're saying that those who oppose abortion are morally bankrupt? They're're not the ones killing babies. The woman gets pregnant 90% of the time on her own not because she's been raped. That's only 3-4% of abortions. another 56-% are those who can't survive pregnancy. BTW HIV wouldn't spread first without unprotected sex. It was before the blood transfusions. How else could they get into the network. You don't need a screening test for AIDS if you don't have it...

 

Oh and BTW scientists just don't come up with screening tests overnight... It's not that easy...

 

also over 2/3 of all americans approved of Ronald Reagan's two terms. It was the highest rating for any retiring president since World War II. He's not bad considering he won a landslide vote in 1984...

 

Even if he had Iran Contra, he apologized for it. Clinton didn't apologize for perjury.

 

His supply side economics didn't gain much support but he did cut income tax rates sharply, created economic growth without inflation (went below 4%), and reduced the unemployment rate. Not bad.

 

this is research: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-261.html

 

mmmm.... think tank....

 

It's interesting that most of the U.S. is composed of Christians. Note: CHRISTIANS. Let's blank out all the U.S. presidents except for Jefferson who was a deist. What are you left with? Take away Martin Luther King Jr. Take away most ofthe politicians. You seriously can't make that argument.

 

Same with the economy.

 

 

You still have not answered me. Who would you pick? Don't tell me Jimmy Carter.

341082[/snapback]

 

Several more points clearly need to be made, I see.

1. Apoligizing for Iran/Contra doesn't excuse it or make it right. We don't pardon a mass-muderer just because he says "ooops...sorry about that."

 

Better than not apologizing for it... Wow if the president doesn't break a major law, he gets scrutinized if he's a republican. If he's a democrat, he can lie, cheat, and have affairs with women in the white house and still make it without jail time. i.e. Kennedy and Clinton.

 

2. Abortion isn't murder and I would challenge you to find me a single passage in the Bible that supports such a ridiculous alligation (use either the KJV or the NIV, doesn't matter to me).

I never said it was in the Bible. And not everything in the world is in the Bible. If you think this way I can understand why you thought the Bible was mythology. It's because you didn't read into it. You don't need an abortion. Just have the baby and drop it off at a police station, fire house, or hospital.

3. Scientists could have come up with a screening test but again- the Reagan administration DID NOTHING while thousands of people were getting tainted blood without fair warning that the blood they were receiving might be HIV+. Reagan could have OK'd the funds (which would have been less then one tenth the cost of a stealth bomber) and fixed the problem -he didn't and therefore he is culpable for his lack of competence in allowing a dangerous disease to spread among the American population unchecked through the very hospitals that were suppose to heal rather then harm.

actually have you thought about the director of the CDC? Isn't he technically responsible for telling Reagan to start the filtering of blood. Anyways did you watch that awful movie. It was complete fiction.

 

Oh and here's an article... http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murd...00312030913.asp

4. Just because two thirds of the idiots in this country thought Reagan was a nice guy doesn't mean a damn thing. Two thirds of the world don't think Jesus was anyone but a nice Jewish boy who came to a bad end -now, are you going to give up your religion just because of that? No, so don't hand me such useless statistics. There was once a time when more then 90% of the world believed the world was flat...and they were all wrong. Truth has nothing to do with Majority and never did.

 

well you said that everybody hated reagan. I never said anything about truth.

 

5. I have no idea where your getting your statistics, but under Reagan (especially in his second term) unemployment went up as did the number of homeless people.

 

 

 

I would also remind you that Reagan's legacy of dereglation has made it much easier for big companies to lay off workers, bust unions, and deny benefits. Hardly something to be proud of. :(

 

Didn't you read the link? oh and BTW American companies could always lay off workers. In addition, by law any corporation's employees have the right to form a union. Deny benefits? Read about the PBGC and tell me about benefits.

6. You make the fact that most Americans are Christians sound like a "good" thing. I would remind you that Christians thought 400 years of black slavery was a good idea. I would remind you that Christians thought denying blacks and native-Americans cival rights was a good idea. I would remind you that Christians were the first to build, use, and stockpile Nuclear Weapons. I would remind you that Christians thought denying women the right to vote was a good idea until they were defeated by the sufferage movement in 1920. I would remind you that Christians were behind the Jim Crow Laws (Segregation) and kept them in place until fairly recently. Christians have contributed to the suffering of so many people that it literally stupifies the human mind to try and grasp it.

 

You also forgot that Abraham Lincoln was an Atheist (his letters confirm this) and John Quincy Adams was a Unitarian, and denied the divinity of Jesus.

341114[/snapback]

 

 

Yes, It's all the Christians' faults... I would have to disagree. It would have to be the European's faults. Slavery by definition in Africa had started well before the Europeans had arrived. Only when the europeans arrived did they start treating slaves like trash. African slaves that is. Wow you're using the logic I call Rectangle square logic. You're assuming that america because it is mainly a Christian nation represents all of Christianity. THAT'S FLAWED LOGIC. That's like saying that since most Indians are hindu, Hindus are the only people that have dark skin. Oh my thre presidents out of how many?!?!? Think about it.

 

Oh and the statistics are there. Just look them up. You have not given me one statistic. You haven't even answeredmy main question...

 

Who would you vote for as the greatest American?

 

BTW you don't have to lecture me on history. It's my best subject. I read the Federalist Papers for fun.

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I already stated that the greatest work anyone can do is to write, and therefore the greatest American would have to be the greatest American writer. I would chose Edgar Allen Poe, and then perhaps Melville. Walt Whitman is also a fine candidate for "Greatest American".

 

It is astonishing to me that not one person has suggested Gene Roddenberry. I would say that in the world of television science fiction Gene had few peers, although I'd include John Stefano (Outer Limits) and Rod Serling (Twilight Zone & author of Planet of the Apes).

Edited by Validus

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I really do wish those of you going off topic would start another thread rather than get my thread closed?

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I agree with UH wholeheartedly.

 

They are still agruing the Greatest American at the AOL/Discovery Channel site for 100 Greatest Americans. You can go there and argue and be attacked for your views to your heart's content if you so wish. I was there and I came back here to avoid that fate.

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