master_q 0 Posted February 3, 2005 Oh, yes, Tim is still hard at work. <_< [Just a side note---- I think we should post his battle plans on the portal/homepage.] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted February 3, 2005 (edited) If you are going to put the "SaveEnterprise" campaign's battle plans on the portal page, then you should also place the link to "KillEnterprise" on that same portal too for balance and to be fair. It's a smaller site, but both sides should be represented: Kill Enterprise Edited February 3, 2005 by The King Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jaz4stfguy 0 Posted February 3, 2005 "Enterprise cancelled" . I find this to be very sad news. <_< I'd like to see CBS pick it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrWho42 13 Posted February 3, 2005 After the end of the single season of the origional BattleStar Galactica....CBS went back and did Galactica 1980..most fans of Galactica can just ignore/dismiss it. But StarTrek is different....3 seasons of Enterprise can't be ignored...it's there...it's Canon.299933[/snapback] 'Twas ABC that the original BSG, and that other show [“The Return of Starbuck” was pretty good though], was shown on. <_<..I remember some 15-year-old kid committed suicide when they cancelled BSG.. Concerning ENT's end... [Or is it?*] Like much other Trekkies, I am sad [and quite a bit depressed] to see Enterprise go, and if syndication doesn't revive the series I guess a break might make things better... Though, I won't mind seeing Star Trek: Excelsior come into being after ENT's run, assuming Trek will be better ran. Mmm, coincidentally, I first read about this whilst listening to “A Day in the Life” [1967].. I read the news today, oh boy... * Not too optimistic at the moment, but I guess time shall tell... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BakulaBabe 2 Posted February 3, 2005 Enterprise's cancellation is very sad news. <_< I really like the show. Too bad they didn't at least wait until this season was over before making a decision. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jack_Bauer 1 Posted February 3, 2005 But StarTrek is different....3 seasons of Enterprise can't be ignored...it's there...it's Canon. Nah, it's easily ignored. 299937[/snapback] Actually it can't. The appearance on the U.S.S. Archer in Star Trek Nemesis as well as the fact that I believe a model NX-01 is present in the Enterprise-E briefing room. And even though the novels aren't canon, several stories in Tales of the Dominion War mention Enterprise. So the writer's recognize it. Its not much but Enterprise will remain canon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Odie 0 Posted February 3, 2005 But StarTrek is different....3 seasons of Enterprise can't be ignored...it's there...it's Canon. Nah, it's easily ignored. 299937[/snapback] Actually it can't. The appearance on the U.S.S. Archer in Star Trek Nemesis as well as the fact that I believe a model NX-01 is present in the Enterprise-E briefing room. And even though the novels aren't canon, several stories in Tales of the Dominion War mention Enterprise. So the writer's recognize it. Its not much but Enterprise will remain canon. 300007[/snapback] There are many times when canon changes all the time to fit the needs of a movie or TV episodes. Enterprise can one day might not be cannon, because it was on TV means nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gul_nodrog 2 Posted February 3, 2005 I agree with those who say that Enterprise is now canon ... I didn't like the show, but if it's been on the tube or on the screen it counts as part of the story. <_< I'll be doing a lot of eye-rolling over it, of course, but it counts. You know what initially turned me off on Enterprise? That theme song with vocals ... what the hell was that all about? Heap bad joo-joo from the get-go for Deron and me and we are HUGE Trek fans. Anyway ... someone above mentioned a dream channel that would feature a Friday night block of sci-fi such as Stargate, Babylon 5, Enterprise, etc. etc. Well, I didn't like those other shows (as far as sci-fi goes there is only Trek and Star Wars for me) but can you imagine how much better Enterprise would have fared if: 1.) It was not on UPN 2.) It was sandwiched in between The Next Generation and DS9 and Voyager on a Friday night every week? The ratings would have been phenomenal. Of course, DVD season sales would have suffered for the other series. Perhaps there is a shift in how Star Trek should be produced and presented to the public ... I think that network television is dead. DEATH TO UPN! Maybe Berman and Gagga could share the rail as we ride that stupid network out of town! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takara_Soong 4 Posted February 3, 2005 But StarTrek is different....3 seasons of Enterprise can't be ignored...it's there...it's Canon. Nah, it's easily ignored. 299937[/snapback] Actually it can't. The appearance on the U.S.S. Archer in Star Trek Nemesis as well as the fact that I believe a model NX-01 is present in the Enterprise-E briefing room. And even though the novels aren't canon, several stories in Tales of the Dominion War mention Enterprise. So the writer's recognize it. Its not much but Enterprise will remain canon. 300007[/snapback] I agree. Enterprise is canon. Once again people, here is the official definition of canon from st.com: As a rule of thumb, the events that take place within the live action episodes and movies are canon, or official Star Trek facts. Story lines, characters, events, stardates, etc. that take place within the fictional novels, the Animated Adventures, and the various comic lines are not canon. There are only a couple of exceptions to this rule: the Jeri Taylor penned novels "Mosaic" and "Pathways." Many of the events in these two novels feature background details of the main Star Trek: Voyager characters. (Note: There are a few details from an episode of the Animated Adventures that have entered into the Star Trek canon. The episode "Yesteryear," written by D.C. Fontana, features some biographical background on Spock.) Enterprise is canon the same as all of the series are. I'm still going to fight for first run syndication. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TransporterMalfunction 1 Posted February 3, 2005 It's one way of looking at it. Personally, I admire Star Trek fans who would accept that a show which is harming the franchise must be cancelled for the good of the franchise. 299892[/snapback] Anyone who believes that the cancelling of the show is good for the franchise is living in a bit of a dream world I'm afraid. Now that one of the more modern shows has been cancelled a precedent has been set. Furthermore, the entire franchise has been weakened by this move. Let's just say you support a football team and one of the players is obviously not up to the job. You can either keep him in the team for season after season and the team will suffer, or you can cut him. 299892[/snapback] But a football team is something that will continue if it loses one player, because there are many others. Comparing Star Trek to a football team is a rather unimaginative analogy and incorrect in its juxtaposition, as the two are completely different situations that have little correlation. Lets try to keep this in context. I'm not one of these people who will love anything as long as it's called Star Trek. 299892[/snapback] Neither am I. I thought DS9 and Voyager were both poor by comparison and lost interest in both series after giving them a fair chance. With reruns I have seen almost all the episodes from both of these and while I don't consider both of them to be particularly strong in my opinion, I would never have been happy (of all things) to have seen them cancelled. If you are going to put the "SaveEnterprise" campaign's battle plans on the portal page, then you should also place the link to "KillEnterprise" on that same portal too for balance and to be fair. It's a smaller site, but both sides should be represented: Kill Enterprise 299949[/snapback] More the actions of a basher than a Star Trek fan. I'm sure that such people who would wish to go to such a site already know the address. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuraksSoul 0 Posted February 3, 2005 This is a sad day for all the loyal fans of Enterprise. I have not missed a single episode since the series premeire. While there has been intense criticism over the show by many fans, I can only state that your day has finally come. And I hope you are satisfied. As for those of us who did not wish to see it cancelled, do not give up hope yet. It is not impossible that another network will choose to make a profit from it....since UPN falls behind in most categories anyways. Perhaps this is naive optimism speaking...but perhaps not. Only time will tell. Fellow Enterprise fans, I share my sympathy with you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyphrx 0 Posted February 3, 2005 Well can hear it coming. It's that big void of no trek that's coming along. I lived through one before. First they promise another show, then they promise a movie. It'll probably be years until we hear from it again. But don't worry, we've got a plethora of other science fiction to choose from. First there's...well I'm sure something will come along. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted February 3, 2005 (edited) The fact that a ship was called USS Archer, or that the NX-01 appeared on the the E-E means nothing. Khan recognised Chekov even though he was on the ship about a year before Chekov arrived on the Enterprise. Things can be retconned if needed. I would hate a tell a future Trek writer "Hey, sorry you can't write that, it's contrary to that failed flop of a TV show called Enterprise". ENT should be ignored and quietly forgotten. Anyone who believes that the cancelling of the show is good for the franchise is living in a bit of a dream world I'm afraid. Now that one of the more modern shows has been cancelled a precedent has been set. Furthermore, the entire franchise has been weakened by this move. No, it's not a dream world. Not at all. The entire franchise has been weakened by dismal leadership from Paramount and the actions of Rick Berman. One of the franchise's weaknesses has been cancelled, now it's time for Berman to go too. But a football team is something that will continue if it loses one player, because there are many others. Comparing Star Trek to a football team is a rather unimaginative analogy and incorrect in its juxtaposition, as the two are completely different situations that have little correlation. Lets try to keep this in context. No, it's a correct analogy, because there are many better premises for a Trek show (the other players?), and you don't have to rely on keeping the weak player on the pitch to bring down the team. ENT is that weak player and thankfully, it's been cut. Now, Paramount can develop some new "players". More the actions of a basher than a Star Trek fan. I'm sure that such people who would wish to go to such a site already know the address. The same thing can be said for the various Pro-ENT sites you posted which could be called "gushers". Whatever those pro-ENT campaigns do will fail. The series failed because it was of low quality and the ratings were poor. I don't see a scenario where many thousands of people will come to it's aid. There are people who think that ENT harms the franchise, so the opposing site should be added to the portal as a link. In the interest of fairness. You've posted links to three Pro-ENT sites with a big flashing light above them, so one link to an opposing site wouldn't be much of a effort. And I hope you are satisfied I personally am. <_< Edited February 3, 2005 by The King Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TransporterMalfunction 1 Posted February 3, 2005 Anyone who believes that the cancelling of the show is good for the franchise is living in a bit of a dream world I'm afraid. Now that one of the more modern shows has been cancelled a precedent has been set. Furthermore, the entire franchise has been weakened by this move. No, it's not a dream world. Not at all. The entire franchise has been weakened by dismal leadership from Paramount and the actions of Rick Berman. One of the franchise's weaknesses has been cancelled, now it's time for Berman to go too. Are you suggesting that the cancelling of a Star Trek show does not have a negative effect on the franchise? <_< But a football team is something that will continue if it loses one player, because there are many others. Comparing Star Trek to a football team is a rather unimaginative analogy and incorrect in its juxtaposition, as the two are completely different situations that have little correlation. Lets try to keep this in context. No, it's a correct analogy, because there are many better premises for a Trek show (the other players?), and you don't have to rely on keeping the weak player on the pitch to bring down the team. ENT is that weak player and thankfully, it's been cut. Now, Paramount can develop some new "players". Ah, but those premises are just that...premises. They have no physical substance until they are made. While a football player can be standing there right in front of you a premise is not. More the actions of a basher than a Star Trek fan. I'm sure that such people who would wish to go to such a site already know the address. The same thing can be said for the various Pro-ENT sites you posted which could be called "gushers". Whatever those pro-ENT campaigns do will fail. The series failed because it was of low quality and the ratings were poor. I don't see a scenario where many thousands of people will come to it's aid. There are people who think that ENT harms the franchise, so the opposing site should be added to the portal as a link. In the interest of fairness. Well I am not familiar with the term "gusher" does that mean "fan"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted February 3, 2005 (edited) Are you suggesting that the cancelling of a Star Trek franchise does not have a negative effect on the franchise? No. Because it's not cancelling the Star Trek franchise. It's cancelling a very weak PART of Star Trek which was weakening the franchise's future. Paramount did also mention that a new chapter of Star Trek will come in the future. The end of ENT does not mean the end of Star Trek. Well I am not familiar with the term "gusher" does that mean "fan"? No it does not. "Gusher" generally refers to that group of the Star Trek fan community who praise ENT and see very little wrong with it, even though ratings and critical opinion (even from those inside the Trek community) offer evidence to the contrary and opposing viewpoints, which the "gushers" simply dismiss or will not even consider. Ah, but those premises are just that...premises. They have no physical substance until they are made. While a football player can be standing there right in front of you a premise is not. Well, hopefully Paramount can come up with a better premise in the future. Hopefully, they'll consider the NEXT premise very carefully before they decide to make it happen. Edited February 3, 2005 by The King Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ddillard 2 Posted February 3, 2005 I will be mailing our petition for Enterprise On Wednesday of next week. I encourage anyone that has not signed it to please do so. Also, please feel free to send the link to anyone that you know, they do not have to be a member to sign the petition. I am also making the plea to anyone that is not a fan of the show to please sign the petition as well, but please do not add any comments that would discount the purpose of the petition. I am basically asking for a cease fire of sorts, I understand that there are members that do not like the show and are content if not happy about its cancelation, but I am asking for your help to try to at least make an attempt to save the show for those of us that do. Below is a link to the petition. http://www.startrekfans.net/petition Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takara_Soong 4 Posted February 3, 2005 (edited) No, it's a correct analogy, because there are many better premises for a Trek show (the other players?), and you don't have to rely on keeping the weak player on the pitch to bring down the team. ENT is that weak player and thankfully, it's been cut. Now, Paramount can develop some new "players". 300117[/snapback] Here's how I use your sports analogy. Enterprise is NOT a weak player. It was on the wrong team (UPN). I can think of many instances in sport where the supposed weak player was traded and came back to haunt their original team big time! Don't ask me to start listing them because I would probably start at Babe Ruth in baseball and work my way to the present. Edited February 3, 2005 by Takara_Soong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TransporterMalfunction 1 Posted February 3, 2005 I am also making the plea to anyone that is not a fan of the show to please sign the petition as well, but please do not add any comments that would discount the purpose of the petition. I am basically asking for a cease fire of sorts, I understand that there are members that do not like the show and are content if not happy about its cancelation, but I am asking for your help to try to at least make an attempt to save the show for those of us that do. Below is a link to the petition. http://www.startrekfans.net/petition 300123[/snapback] I would also like to support Dill's plea to those who were not a fan of this incarnation. I, like many others, loved the show and while I am happy to accept that you may not have liked it as much as I, I appeal to you to please support the show for the rest of us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted February 3, 2005 I understand your point Takara. I've seen things like that happen in football too. But that's only when the player is talented and the rest of the team doesn't suit him. You assume that ENT is the "Babe Ruth" of the Star Trek franchise? It never was and never could be regardless of which channel it was on. RE: this petition. When ENT was on-air I never said "It should be cancelled", but now that it has been, there's no way that it should be brought back. I urge Star Trek fans reading this post who are "undecided" (neither pro-ENT or anti-ENT) to certainly not sign any petition to bring that show back. Instead, I advise fans to demand that Paramount devote more care and attention to future Trek incarnations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted February 3, 2005 Executive producer Rick Berman blames "franchise fatigue" for the cancellation of Star Trek: Enterprise and said he expects a minimum three-year hiatus before a new Trek is launched. Yes, that's correct, it is fatigue. I think people are also sick of low quality Trek like VOY, INS, and NEM. But three years sounds about right. Maybe even five. Speaking to USA Today in the wake of the show's cancellation yesterday, Berman said, "The fact that we've done 624 hours of Star Trek over the last 18 years...there's a point at which you can reach a sense of overkill. It's probably good to lay fallow for a while to rejuvenate." By jove!!!! He's finally figured it out!!!! Well done Rick!!!! It only took him ten years to realise it, since most people have been saying this since 1995 when VOY started. Nothing gets past old Rick. <_< Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tench745 0 Posted February 3, 2005 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I don't even like the freaking show much and I'm outraged!Well, if they can't get it into their heads that they need Star Trek, then we'll just have to buy all their props and produce it ourselves. That's it, organise a convention! We won't take this lying down! <_< Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TC1 0 Posted February 4, 2005 With all due respect to The King and others who feel the same way about ENTERPRISE, why would you want Paramount to produce another STNG time line clone, like DS9 and Voyager? It's been done. Just because ENTERPRISE had a different opening theme, and premise, didnt make it a sorry outing. The special effects were top notch, the acting was great, and for the most part, the writing kept getting better and better. I just dont see the Lemon that others see. The Trek universe is vast, and should always have room for a little change. This idea took us to the past, which is something that most of the Trek fans that I've talked to wanted to see. Season 4 in particular has been great about showing bits and pieces that relate to the other timelines. ...and lastly, why would Paramount bother to hire and promote Manny Coto and Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens just for a season? What a waste of their immense talents! If they just wanted to get enough episodes for syndication, surely they wouldnt have been necessary to hire and tease the rest of the ENTERPRISE fandom with their entry into the show's crew. Not alot of genius over at Paramount nowadays. DS9 and Voyager were nothing spectacular themselves until the last half of their 7 year runs. This doesnt make sense. So many other ideas could've been brought up to save this series. What a waste and a slap in the face to Trek fans, because ENTERPRISE is and was canon Trek. Feel free to respond, I respect all opinions, always. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted February 4, 2005 Click For Spoiler With all due respect to The King and others who feel the same way about ENTERPRISE, why would you want Paramount to produce another STNG time line clone, like DS9 and Voyager? They won't produce a "clone" and that's not what I want. I think we can say with some certainty that they won't be producing another show about a station near a wormhole or a ship thrown to the other side of the galaxy. It's been done. Just because ENTERPRISE had a different opening theme, and premise, didnt make it a sorry outing. The original opening theme was OK and it generally suited the premise of the show. I like Russell Watson, he's a very good singer. The show could have been good. The idea had promise, but it was poorly executed. The special effects were top notch, No argument there. But special effects alone cannot save a show. the acting was great, and for the most part, the writing kept getting better and better. The actors were alright. Like I've said before, they had very weak characters and this was the problem. ...and lastly, why would Paramount bother to hire and promote Manny Coto and Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens just for a season? Because Paramount lack strong and wise leadership and their decisions regarding Star Trek have been poor since 1994. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TC1 0 Posted February 4, 2005 The King: The original opening theme was OK and it generally suited the premise of the show. I like Russell Watson, he's a very good singer. The show could have been good. The idea had promise, but it was poorly executed. At first, yes, I would say, poorly executed. But it really seemed like the integrity was on the rise, especially with this last season. The King: But special effects alone cannot save a show. Unfortunately, this is true. The King: Like I've said before, they had very weak characters and this was the problem. Again, I thought the quality in character choices and their acting had gone up. At least in my opinion. The King: Because Paramount lack strong and wise leadership and their decisions regarding Star Trek have been poor since 1994. Also, not much of an arguement concerning Berman or Braga. Thanks for your response King. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivendells_king 0 Posted February 4, 2005 Darn now I have nogthing to do on fridays. Thanks alot money hungry people and people that complain to much! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted February 4, 2005 (edited) Darn now I have nogthing to do on fridays. Thanks alot money hungry people and people that complain to much! Well, think about it this way, Paramount are a company that is in the business to make money, and if this particular incarnation of Trek was failing, they were right to pull the plug. As for complaining, people who disliked ENT had every right to complain if they choose to. They didn't do for any other reason than they care about Star Trek's future and they were concerned that this show in particular was harming the franchise which to be honest has been struggling even before ENT came along. Edited February 4, 2005 by The King Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivendells_king 0 Posted February 4, 2005 your probally right king. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headborg 1 Posted February 4, 2005 After the end of the single season of the origional BattleStar Galactica....CBS went back and did Galactica 1980..most fans of Galactica can just ignore/dismiss it. But StarTrek is different....3 seasons of Enterprise can't be ignored...it's there...it's Canon.299933[/snapback] 'Twas ABC that the original BSG, and that other show [“The Return of Starbuck” was pretty good though], was shown on. <_<..I remember some 15-year-old kid committed suicide when they cancelled BSG.. Concerning ENT's end... [Or is it?*] Like much other Trekkies, I am sad [and quite a bit depressed] to see Enterprise go, and if syndication doesn't revive the series I guess a break might make things better... Though, I won't mind seeing Star Trek: Excelsior come into being after ENT's run, assuming Trek will be better ran. Mmm, coincidentally, I first read about this whilst listening to “A Day in the Life” [1967].. I read the news today, oh boy... * Not too optimistic at the moment, but I guess time shall tell... 299985[/snapback] the return of StarBuck was an execellent 2 hr movie special...the BSG 1980 was the relaunch attempt in 1980 that was suppost to be after they find Earth...it was a very poor series flop....i'll take your word for it as to the ABC....and I remember the sucide too it was a real shame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRH The KING 0 Posted February 4, 2005 (edited) Star Trek: Excelsior? You mean the "Captain Sulu" series that some Trek fans wanted instead of ENT? Nah, that would have flopped too. If anything, I consider that a weaker concept than ENT. Besides, George Takei is about two hundred years old now. Sulu would need to keep a Yeoman nearby just to carry the glass of water for his dentures. <_< Edited February 4, 2005 by The King Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jack_Bauer 1 Posted February 4, 2005 (edited) I actually have to agree with The King there. Takei recently complained that he didn't think Enterprise was part of Roddenberry's vision, in his opinion, because it looked backward while Roddenberry always looked forward. Of course, an Excelsior series would have a look backwards as well and an Excelsior series would have been more limited in terms of creativity than Enterprise was. And I disagree with Takei in terms of looking backwards. Enterprise was more about documenting humanity's first steps into the stellar community and the bringing together the Federation (which was more concentrated upon in season 4). A history we all took for granted without knowing exactly how it happened. Unfortunately (for Enterprise fans), we won't get to see more of this 'living history'. Edited February 4, 2005 by Jack_Bauer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites