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welfconfed

The upcoming Romulan arc on Enterprise.

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*possible spoilers*

 

 

Enterprise is suppose to air a three part story that focuses on the Romulans.

 

What do you think about it? Any concerns about how the Romulans weill be portrayed?

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Another 3-part story? Oh well.

 

The romulans would be cool to see. I hope they all aren't evil though.

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I agree with Seatrooper. I am delighted that the PTB are showing Romulans more, but I am worried that they will be portrayed in too negative a light. At the same time, I hardly want them to be all happy and good (though I doubt that will happen). On another note, does anyone know if this arc has anything to do with the Earth-Romulan War, or is merely some other sort of interaction? That was the part I could not figure out, from certain little things, like the end of Kir'Shara (those of you who have seen it know what I am talking about).

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I have no problem with the Romulans shown as ruthless in their dealings with others, but only if they have a reason.

 

As for reunification...

If they believe that they are rescuing the vulcan people from "surakism" and returning the vulcans to their normal way of life and/or if they are after their birthright as descendants of vulcans, then any price would be worth reunification for the Romulans.

 

Their interaction with other species...

If they view the argumentive Tellarites, the aggressive Andorians, or the irrational Humans as threats, is their view really so different than the Vulcans?

 

 

 

To your question Stephanie...

 

**MAJOR SPOILERS**

Click For Spoiler
No the episodes will not deal with the Earth/Romulan war.

 

 

If you don't want to know about the storyline, don't read on.

 

 

They deal with a plot by the Romulans and a Andorian subspecies the Aenar to manipulate the Tellarites and Andorians into conflict with each other.

Ultimately, Archer forms an alliance (can anyone say Federation?)

between Tellarites, Andorians, Vulcans, and Humans to find the (Romulan) ship responsible for the attacks.

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Romulans nearly always have a reason for what they do. Everything is part of something larger. What annoys me is when those reasons are not portrayed as just that- legitimate plans to generally help the Empire in some way- but as random belligerence. There may be several species in and out of the Federation I do not like, but even I, a very judgmental person, have to agree that most of them do have legitimate reasons for doing what they do.

 

As for your thoughts on reunification, James, that is where you and I disagree. I am very against reunification even for the reasons you mentioned. For "rescuing the Vulcans from Surakism," I have a bit of the "what you want is irrelevant, what you have chosen is at hand" attitude. They chose their circumstances, now they have to deal with the consequences. If they cannot get themselves out, well I am sorry, but you are expect me to save you from a belief you drove me away for not embracing? I do not see the logic in that. As for reclaiming their birthright, granted they have as much right to the planet Vulcan as those who actually call themselves Vulcans, but I think they have moved beyond that. To give another “real life” example, think of America and England. No one would dream of reunifying them, even if America did start out as an extension of England. Americans have grown beyond that into their own identity and have become even greater than England in the modern day. It is like that for Romulans- they are even greater than the Vulcans now. They are the heart of an entire Empire, whereas Vulcans are merely one plant, albeit an important one, in a great organization of many planets. And yes, their viewpoint is similar to the Vulcans’ in regard to other species. I did not say they were not allowed to have similarities. Both think they are superior. At least one is probably right. :P

 

Thank you for the information on the three-part arc. Thanks for giving away the general storyline, but not enough to spoil it.

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You are quite right in regards to Romulans, they have their reasons. (otherwise they would just be klingons with pointed ears :P )

 

On the question of reunification, we do not disagree, I don't think it is good for the Vulcans or Romulans.

 

However you must admit, if the Romulans had taken Vulcan before the formation of the UFP, then it probable would not have formed and the empire would have eliminated a future threat to its dominance in the region.

 

As to who is superior...well, who has an empire and who are the lapdogs of the humans? :P

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Interesting point, in regard to unification and its effect on the founding of the Federation. I have never thought about that. :P Unfortunately, history did not happen that way. I am reasonably sure that had such a confrontation happened, especially before the humans achieved warp, the Romulans would have undoubtedly won. They put their efforts after leaving Vulcan first to rebuilding their civilization, and then to developing a powerful Empire that would come back to haunt Vulcans. Vulcans put their efforst to ridding themselves of emotion and stablizing their government, then... well, I am not sure, but they certainly did not develop an Empire. In the end, they ended up, as you so charmingly put it :P , the lapdogs of the humans. (Well, it is accurate). Perhaps if that is how history had played out, I would look more favorably on reunification. Alas, even the greatest of species are sometimes unable to do what is best. :P

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Something that I've wondered about... could more Romulan storylines be a mixed blessing?

 

One of the great things about the Romulans is that they have retained their mystery, even after almost 40 years, we still know so little about them.

 

In gaining more attention from the Trek creators will the Romulans lose part of what makes them special or will it create new fans?

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Catching the last lines of your post, here I at last have something to add from myself...it can be a mixed blessing depending what one considers "canonical". Now I don't want to start with that age old issue again, but my thoughts are on how much we Romulan fans depend on the "food" served to us in the episodes concerning Romulans and Romulan Empire in general. Perhaps each of us decides this differently. None of us can do without what we see or read as it is what we're deriving our conclusions and musings from. Personally for me, all what is shown is taken with one mandratory "What if" before everything. The episodes and the way Romulans are portrayed there are after all someone's viewpoint. We also have our own viewpoint where we may not interpret things the way the writer does - for example the issues on Romulan "aggression", "trickery", everything that someone sees because they must create "villains" to strenghten the role of the good guys. But we will see reasons behind their actions, because we seek a different point to look from. Perhaps we happen to be concerned about reasons far more than the screenwriter is concerned and he may not give any ground for further contemplations "why". Only provide us with "what".

 

So I don't have any concerns how Romulans will be portrayed in the new episode. I am just curious to see yet another viewpoint on them. I wouldn't be surprised if they are portrayed poorly. But then I'll simply watch through and forget. Because my "canon" is my gut feeling.

 

I think that Romulans are special most of all because they are what they are :) I also believe that even if tons of movies are made with detailed plots regarding Romulans, they still will not lose that special nuance of mystery to them.

 

P.S. I read all the spoilers as I am far away from the regular US ST airing time and god knows when they will be showing it here. :)

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I thought it was a pretty good arc. And it involved more than just Romulans, which was pretty cool.

 

I liked the idea of of the drone ship, but I thought it's design was a little too futuristic Even for over a hundred years from now.

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I completely agree wishfire, the advanced level of technology is a problem in this arc and is one of the problems with Enterprise overall.

 

They never seemed to realize that Enterprise is as much historical fiction as it is sci-fi.

Some of the technology on the show is as jarring as having a civilwar series with tanks and jet fighters.

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I loved the look of the Marauder, though very advanced in its abilitys its skin has that retro-look; reminded me of ships in Buckaroo Bonsai. Of the arc as a whole it's 99% perfect imo.

Edited by Alterego

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The unusually advanced romulan technology we see in the Romulan arc has started me thinking...

 

Click For Spoiler

In the 23rd century the Romulans had primitive cloaks and plasma weapons (which evidently took so much power that warp was impossible while the weapons were on line)

However, over a century before, they have ships that can be controlled by a neural interface over several light years and can use advanced holography to mimic other vessels, but the most stunning ability of the 'early' Romulan vessels are their ability to repair themselves. (an ability we have seen only in the borg)

 

So I can't help but to wonder if one of the changes in the time-line post-S.T.:1st Contact is that the Romulan Empire acquired Borg technology sometime before the 2150's.

Could that be why the Borg 'carried off' the outpost along the neutral zone in the 2360's?

Why have we not seen evidence of borg-like Romulan technology in the 24th century (after S.T.:1st Contact)?

Edited by welfconfed

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I get the impression that the Enterprise writers are bending continuity is this area but no can really blame them. The canon set up for the 22nd century Romulans is fairly unrealistic. How can the war last 4 years with one side having warp drive and the other not? How could the war forge the initial alliances of the Federation if the Romulans are so inferior? What threat do the Romulans pose with no cloak or warp drive? They have nukes, so what? Enterprise warps to Romulus, blasts a few photon torpedoes and the empire is in shambles and warps out before the Romulans know what hit them. I think as good as TOS was, it created a lot of unrealistic canon. But I hand it to Enterprise's writers to use it as well as they can.

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The only reference to the Romulans lack of warp was when scotty tells Kirk that "their power is simple impulse" He was talking about the ship they faced at that moment, not that the Romulans NEVER had warp drive.

Scotty could have been saying that their warp drive was damaged or that it was off line because of their weapons needing such vast amounts of power.

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Well, I'm going to shock everyone here and actually side with ENT on this issue.

 

Only the most nitpicky, annoying little nerd is going to care about little continuity problems. Now ENT has caused a lot of problems for itself because of this obsession with "time travel" (which is one of the reasons I think people were turned away from the show).

 

BUT....sometimes, things are written in past versions of Trek which honestly, do limit future writers because of the awkwardness of the thing in question. The "Romulan War" is admittedly a murky element of Trek history so I don't see any problem in retconning that. I'm the last person who would criticise ENT for continuity violations since I freely believe that if something in Trek canon is posing a narrative problem, then it should be changed and retconned. After all, things like "The Enterprise travels to Sha-Ka-Ree at the center of the galaxy in about four hours" is a ******** plot point, and even Gene Roddenberry told people to ignore that. There are certain things in Trek that should be ignored or altered as the writing needs call for.

 

Problems with canon has NEVER been one of the reasons I didn't like ENT. Not at all. While I don't think that the "Klingon Forehead" problem needed to be addressed, I do find those fans who go through Trek with a fine-tooth comb to be annoying. After all, certain things like the "modern retro" look of the NX-01 HAD to look advanced because if you showed the interior of the ship looking like NCC 1701 in TOS with it's 1960's type chairs and it's bright colours and sets made from wood and cardboard, it would have looked dumb.

 

When the show first aired, some people were whining about "Oh the NX-01 looks like the Akira". So what? Does it matter? No. I always thought it could be explained that the Akira was based on the NX class' design. When they showed "SHOCK HORROR" GREEN Romulan ships, some people went nuts. Well BOO Frickin HOO, honestly, I always thought those white Romulan ships with the bird painted on them looked lame anyway. When they showed the Ferengi in ENT, people complained. Well, who really gives a flying frick anyway? If ENT had have used the Cardassians, Breen, Klingons, Bajorans, Borg, Romulans, Ferengi etc in it's first three seasons instead of those lame Xindi and Suliban, it may have been worth watching.

 

Bottom line? My opinion? If something in Trek canon poses a problem, if it can be changed and not significantly affect the important parts of Trek, then go ahead and change the damn thing and don't worry about nitpickers.

 

There, you see? I just defended ENT.

 

What a nice person I am. :bow::bow: :P

Edited by The King

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Bottom line? My opinion? If something in Trek canon poses a problem, if it can be changed and not significantly affect the important parts of Trek, then go ahead and change the damn thing and don't worry about nitpickers.

 

Putting aside the off topic comments, your obvious personal problems with "nitpickers" (a huge percentage of trek fandom for 40 years, as well as this website, who engage in harmless speculation for the FUN of it.) , I find it amusing that someone who not only is a trek fan, but spends time on a trek fan website has the ill manners and testicular fortitude to call ANYONE a NERD.

 

Bottom line?My opinion? The moment they changed something YOU thought was an important part of Trek you would join the ranks of the "nitpicky, annoying, little nerds".

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Click For Spoiler
Putting aside the off topic comments,

 

Don't worry, they won't hurt you.

 

your obvious personal problems with "nitpickers" (a huge percentage of trek fandom for 40 years, as well as this website, who engage in harmless speculation for the FUN of it.)

 

There's a difference between enjoying the details in Star Trek and agonising over details in ridiculous fevour. I have no personal problems with nitpickers, I just don't see the need to drive oneself insane over relatively insignificant canon alterations.

 

, I find it amusing that someone who not only is a trek fan, but spends time on a trek fan website has the ill manners and testicular fortitude to call ANYONE a NERD.

 

Well, if the "Nerd Defamation League" contact me, I'll deal with that problem when it arises.

 

Bottom line?My opinion?

 

Hmmmm, that's either an homage to my last post, or I'm experiencing "Cyber-Deja Vu".

 

The moment they changed something YOU thought was an important part of Trek you would join the ranks of the "nitpicky, annoying, little nerds".

 

Why? What did they change?

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I am from the "Nerd Defamation League" and these people on this site are not nerds... well they are, but a sub group and we would like it if you call the fans here by their sub group nerd names... Treks, Trekkers, and Trekkies.

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I am from the "Nerd Defamation League" and these people on this site are not nerds... well they are,

 

:borg2:;)

 

but a sub group and we would like it if you call the fans here by their sub group nerd names... Treks, Trekkers, and Trekkies.

 

Treks?

 

Never heard that one before. :P

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I am from the "Nerd Defamation League"

310159[/snapback]

I understand you are the President of the League.....lol

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You do realise Picard, there are spell checks on this site. Try using them once in a while, no college is going to accept you if your acceptance letter is full of spelling errors and faulty grammar.

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Be careful Kor... I might move into your state...

Anyways... Trek fans are fans that like Trek but aren't type you would see learning Klingon or going to your local Starbucks asking for a raktajino or Romulan ale.

Next are Trekkies... yes the main name used for all fans, but this only applys to a small group. They are fat(to say the lest), live with their parents or by themselfs, most likely over 35 years old, speak Klingon and most likely 2 more, have no socal life, and think Star Trek is real life... that last factor there is a big one, because everyone knows it is only and show and if you think it is real you need a doctor now.

And final the Trekkers... the smart ones. Now most off the fans on this site are Treks or Trekkers. Trekkers, first of all, know that Star Trek is not real, but they wish it was, they are very smart, have a fe uniforms and other things of Trek, and they tend to run manythings for the normal person like NASA, help the tech people in the CIA, FIB, and NSA, and are the top of the nerds when it comes to Trek and computers(most of the time).

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My head hurts just reading that last post. * Consults his Picard to English dictionary*

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The King, I don't recall anyone on this thread going nuts over any of the continuity issues you brought up.

 

I came closes with my comment that I thought overly advanced technology was a problem with the show and I never said that it was a big deal, only that I didn't like it. (and quite frankly the problem I have with it is that it was used instead of good writing and not that it violated 'canon')

 

Next I speculated about the possible use of Borg technology in the marauder, but it has virtually nothing to do with 'nitpicking' and was meant to possibly start a discussion and nothing more.

 

Then Jack Bauer mentioned the fan-based myth of the Romulans having no warp drive and Temporal Insurgent quoted the tos episode "Balance of Terror" to reassure him that in that case there was no violation of canon.

 

 

If you are going to blast Enterprise 'nitpickers' (or nitpickers in general) then do it in the Enterprise forum or Ten Forward, however if you would like to talk about the Romulans, I would enjoy reading your comments.

 

To quote Gul Madred: "I would enjoy debating you, you have a keen mind."

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