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tbree_dVelnahr

Tension Betweek Kirk And Spock

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I just watched Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country again for the first time in awhile and it struck me anew that Spock and Kirk had this tension between them that goes unexplained. Kirk is decidely on the defensive throughout the movie when it comes to Spock. What is going on between these two? Is this supposedly a continuation of Spock's alleged betrayal of Kirk back in Star Trek V, when Spock refused to shoot Sybok?

 

It is my understanding that Star Trek VI takes place approximately ten years later in the timeline. Why is Kirk holding such a grudge toward the one person he felt closest to in the entire universe? Does anybody know what really sparked this bit of a feud between old friends?

 

T'Bree

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You have forgot that Spock forced Kirk's hands with the Klingons. Kirk hated the Klingons, because one of the killed his son.

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The only tension I noticed was Kirk was pretty P.O. when Spock voluntered Kirk's services to the Fedaration to help the Klingons. Even though Spock knew how Kirk feeled about the Klingons and the Fedaration. :assimilated:

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I haven't forgotten that Kirk hated the Klingons or that Spock signed him up for that mission, but it seems to me the anger went beyond that. He said, "Why didn't you trust me?" Is he talking about the fact Spock vouched for him in regards to the Klingons? Still doesn't quite make sense to me. I've listened carefully to the dialogue and it just doesn't ring true that Kirk should be so angry at Spock. Seems there is still an aura of mistrust between them or at least on Kirk's part. Does anybody else see what I'm seeing here?

 

T'Bree

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I can completely understand why Kirk is ticked off at Spock during ST:VI. Spock has volunteered Kirk for a mission that Kirk has no desire to go on, doesn't feel he is right for, and there's Spock up there at the podium in an open meeting with Starfleet brass wanting to make peace with the people that Kirk blames for the death of his son. He's been fighting the Klingons his entire career ... then out of the blue he's expected to extend the olive branch to his blood enemies?

 

I'd be mad at Spock if I were Kirk.

 

That's the only thing that ever occurred to me regarding the "tension" between the two characters. I think it's more than enough to explain Kirk's animosity.

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I haven't forgotten that Kirk hated the Klingons or that Spock signed him up for that mission, but it seems to me the anger went beyond that. He said, "Why didn't you trust me?"

 

I don't think the tension is due to anything other than Spock 'personally vouching' for Kirk and crew but I to have never worked what the 'should've trusted me' line meant.

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I think Spock knew that Kirk couldn't carry that hate around forever so he volunteered him to make him show that people can change and they don't have to be stuck with one viewpoint forever.

 

Spock was trying to help Kirk by making him discover that Klingons were more than just violent savages and that Gorkon actually did want peace.

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I dont think kirk was angry at spock i would say more disappointed in spock for not trusting him and i think spock showed kirk that just because a klingon killed his son he didnt need to hate all klingons as for the sybok thing i dont think kirk could have killed his own brother if he had one so kirk would have understood that.

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One thing that wasn't expressly said in the movie, but was hinted at by several of the posters here, is that Spock jumped the chain of command by dealing with the Klingons directly behind Kirk's back. Spock did not have the authority to open dialog with the Klingons without going through Kirk and the chain of command. Sure he was Ambassador Sarek's son, but if Sarek thought it was so important than Sarek should have approached the Klingons himself.

Edited by Lt. Van Roy

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I think it was mere frustration. Might have been Shatner's acting. I don't know. It seems to be more of "you're my friend. you know what I hate, but now you gave me what I myself hate" situation. I think the role of Sybok had little to do with the situation in Star Trek VI.

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One thing that wasn't expressly said in the movie, but was hinted at by several of the posters here, is that Spock jumped the chain of command by dealing with the Klingons directly behind Kirk's back.  Spock did not have the authority to open dialog with the Klingons without going through Kirk and the chain of command.  Sure he was Ambassador Sarek's son, but if Sarek thought it was so important than Sarek should have approached the Klingons himself.

284452[/snapback]

 

 

I'm sorry, I just can't remember this, but was Spock still a member of the Kirk's crew? Hadn't he been promoted or something prior to the events of ST:VI? It's been a while and for some reason in my mind, Spock was no longer part of the crew and Valeris was being groomed to take his place on the Enterprise.

 

Or maybe I'm just talking out of my southern region .... :naughty:

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Technically Spock was a captain too and thus should have had his own command, but I do not think there is a rule against captains serving as first officer too. So, maybe while Kirk was on the Enterprise, Spock took the role of first officer and thus was under Kirk's command. Besides, Spock only said he intended Valeris to replace him. She was just a helmsman in the movie. Getting back to the actual topic, I with the majority of previous posters- it was the whole thing with the Klingons that led to any tension, though I must confess that I did not see much tension. Then again, I am not very good at picking up on tone of voice or body language.

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