Size Of The Universe

[DrWho42 13]

Right now, the size of the observable universe is 13.7 billion light-years....

 

But some think we only see a finite part of the cosmos, since 90% of the observable universe is dark matter....

 

What's your view?

 

I like to think it's infinite...

The Adventures of STF.net

Edited May 4, 2004 by drwho42

[Beam me up 0]

I always thought that the size of the universe increased each time that a bigger telescope was built.

[WEAREBORG4102 0]

Accroding to the Big Bang Theory, I repeat theory. The universe is finite and will expand until a certain point and contract into what is known as the big crunch...

[DrWho42 13]

Are you saying that the universe has an edge or a centre, because that violates homogeneity* and isotrophy** (if you believe those theories...)...

*homogeneity-same everywhere

**isotrophy-same in all directions

[ARMS 0]

I'm a big believer in the big bang theory..

[DrWho42 13]

I am too.

 

Oh, and here's a quote onto the Big Crunch theory....

The expansion of a closed universe, with an Omega greater than one, will slow down until it reaches a maximum size, when it begins its inward collapse. Like a video of the Big Bang and expansion run backward, the universe will become denser and hotter until it ends in an infinitely hot, infinitely dense Big Crunch--perhaps providing the seed for another Big Bang.

Edited May 5, 2004 by drwho42

[Xeroc 0]

Dr. Who, that's not quite correct. (about the size of the observable universe)

 

Actually, we have only managed to see as far away as 13.0 - 13.4 billion years into the past - so the size of the observable universe is about 13.0 to 13.4 billion light-years large.

 

Scientists have estimated the age (amount of time passed since the big bang) of the universe to be about 13.7 billion years.

 

About the absolute size of the universe it could be either finite or infinite - the big bang theory does not differentiate.

 

If it were infinite then the universe would be like (this is also advocated in a version of string theory) two giant planes (called branes in string theory) like this (the one on the left is our universe and the one on the right is another universe)

 

Note: The two planes actually extend out for infinity parallel to each other.

 

When they collide they produce a "big bang" where all matter and energy is "reset" in the universe.

 

Other branes could exist in the other dimentions or in lateral 5-d

 

Another idea is a more classic "big bang" approach with our universe as a 5-d sphere that exapnds like a ballon being blown up. All points move away from each other but there is no edge or center.

 

 

Hope that helps - feel free to ask any for any clarifications or ask any other questions.

[DrWho42 13]

Ah, that's helpful Xeroc :lol:

[blitzkrieg1110 0]

i think its infinite and there are too many holes in the big bang theory for me to believe it. i dont know......it just seems way to fishy to me. Lol dont think im trying to start an argument cause im not

[fenriz275 0]

I may be completely wrong here but I read somewhere that our universe's expansion seems to be accelerating rather than slowing down which is what it was supposed to do. Doesn't this contradict the Big Bang theory?

[Jeanway 0]

I may be completely wrong here but I read somewhere that our universe's expansion seems to be accelerating rather than slowing down which is what it was supposed to do. Doesn't this contradict the Big Bang theory?

 

 

 

 

Yes Fen, Yes it does Ever think maybe all the theories are wrong? :o

[He Who Shall Not Be Named 2]

It's big. That's all I know.

[Xeroc 0]

I may be completely wrong here but I read somewhere that our universe's expansion seems to be accelerating rather than slowing down which is what it was supposed to do. Doesn't this contradict the Big Bang theory?

No, not necessarily. The Big Bang theory really only states the universe started out extemely small, and has been expanding ever since. It says nothing about how the universe will end. The "oscillating universe" theory says it should contract into a "big crunch".

 

They believe it is accelerating due to "Dark Energy"

 

This "Dark Energy" creates an anti-grav effect accelerating the expanision of the universe.

 

Some theories say the dark energy will eventually accelerate and "tear" the universe apart in a "big rip":

 

http://MSNBC: Will the universe end in a 'big rip'?

 

None of this (even that dark energy exists) has been confirmed.

 

Another possibility some say is that the dark energy will turn negative sccelerating the universe into a "big crunch" after all.

 

No one's really quite sure what will happen!

[DrWho42 13]

Doesn't negative energy generate anti-gravity which speeds up time, while positive energy generates gravity which slows down time?

[Xeroc 0]

Doesn't negative energy generate anti-gravity which speeds up time, while positive energy generates gravity which slows down time?

In theory, it would, keep in mind - we don't really know if dark energy even exists - and if it does - we don't know what it is made of or what is causing it!

[TypoNinja 0]

just to point out since this is a ST board, Q has already stated that the universe is infinate and that one of the functions of the Q contiuum is to insure it doesnt expand to a point whre you will get an "energy death" or masive cooling of the universe, and voyager also has the dark matter problems solved though thats a different story really.

[ARMS 0]

Yeh, but this is a serious look at the size of the universe.

[Q stole my bike 0]

Woah...big high-tech babbling...um, I think it's finite because my squeeky brain can't comprehend (among other things) how something could be infinite in size

[WEAREBORG4102 0]

just to point out since this is a ST board, Q has already stated that the universe is infinate and that one of the functions of the Q contiuum is to insure it doesnt expand to a point whre you will get an "energy death" or masive cooling of the universe, and voyager also has the dark matter problems solved though thats a different story really.

he could be wrong...... :(

[Vulcan IDIC 0]

I choose to believe that it is infinite. If it's finite then where does it end and if it ends what is beyond that? Do you just run into a big wall somewhere out there?

 

I don't believe in the big bang theory though.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I'm one who believes that God created the universe. As a result, I believe that there are three possibilites, each having an equal chance of being true.

 

1. The universe is infinite. There are multiple universes floating arround, and in time, we will spread to the farthest reaches of this universe, and perhaps beyond.

 

2. The universe is every growing, but not expanding like many scientists believe. I believe the universe could be growing in the sense that God never stopped creating. I believe that he is so... well... powerfull.... he's just... God, thus I believe that he can have a plan for this whole planet, down to the tinest details like where dust falls, have a plan for our galaxy, much more beyond that, and constantly add to our universe, growing for however long he sees fit.

 

3. The universe is infinite. Since God has always been and forever will be, I believe it's possible that the universe was created with that same concent. If God is eternal, why can't existance be infinite?

 

#3 is my favored of the three.

[WEAREBORG4102 0]

I'm one who believes that God created the universe.  As a result, I believe that there are three possibilites, each having an equal chance of being true.

 

1. The universe is infinite.  There are multiple universes floating arround, and in time, we will spread to the farthest reaches of this universe, and perhaps beyond.

 

2. The universe is every growing, but not expanding like many scientists believe.  I believe the universe could be growing in the sense that God never stopped creating.  I believe that he is so...  well...  powerfull.... he's just... God, thus I believe that he can have a plan for this whole planet, down to the tinest details like where dust falls, have a plan for our galaxy, much more beyond that, and constantly add to our universe, growing for however long he sees fit.

 

3. The universe is infinite.  Since God has always been and forever will be, I believe it's possible that the universe was created with that same concent.  If God is eternal, why can't existance be infinite?

 

#3 is my favored of the three.

I agree with you, but I'm discussing their point of view...

 

God has created us and he's going to send us to heaven or hell......

the universe will cease to exist after the end times...

[TypoNinja 0]

right well i personally beleive well never know since the size of the obserovable universe is 13. some odd billon light years that mease what your observing is 13 some odd billion years out of date, what this amounts to is never being able to observe the edge of the universe since the light we view from the observable edge is again some 13 billion or so years old by then it woill most certianly have expanded more. or if not and its shrinking we wont know untill 13 billion or so years after it starts when the light reaches us.

 

now i hate to sound liek a jack *buttocks* but at the rate were going humans dont have another 13 thousand years let alone 13 billion.

 

 

The Only Truly Universal Law is Murphys

[WEAREBORG4102 0]

theoretically, you can measure the universe's size by background radiation.You do have to consider that expansion and creation of new "universe" would possibly calculated by expansion in the past in linear form.

[TSonofvulcan 0]

I'm one who believes that God created the universe.  As a result, I believe that there are three possibilites, each having an equal chance of being true.

 

1. The universe is infinite.  There are multiple universes floating arround, and in time, we will spread to the farthest reaches of this universe, and perhaps beyond.

 

2. The universe is every growing, but not expanding like many scientists believe.  I believe the universe could be growing in the sense that God never stopped creating.  I believe that he is so...  well...  powerfull.... he's just... God, thus I believe that he can have a plan for this whole planet, down to the tinest details like where dust falls, have a plan for our galaxy, much more beyond that, and constantly add to our universe, growing for however long he sees fit.

 

3. The universe is infinite.  Since God has always been and forever will be, I believe it's possible that the universe was created with that same concent.  If God is eternal, why can't existance be infinite?

 

#3 is my favored of the three.

I am a Southren Baptist Vulcan (hehehe, that means I'm a christin in the southern united states in a baptist church) and I beleve it is beyond our comprehention. I also throughly beleve evolution to be illogical. Evertime scientists make a textbook for a public school, they play around with the facts, use falty data, don't state the whole truth, and even use outdated methods. Teachers can be fires for even commenting that evolution isn't the way they think it is. I find the consept illogical. You have better chances of standing in frount of your plot of land and a Lowes blowes up and a house and all its fernishings falls into place. YOU HAVE A WAY BETTER CHANCE OF THAT! Also, consider the 2nd law of thermodynamics which basically states the entropy of the universe increases. An increase in disorder (overall) is therefore spontaneous. If the volume and energy of a system are constant, then every change to the system increases the entropy. If volume or energy change, then the entropy of the system can actually decrease. However, the entropy of the universe does not decrease. The molecules in one's body exist in great order; this only happens because the entropy of the rest of the universe is increased to a greater amount than the entropy of the body is decreased. If the Earth really was billions and billions of years old (I don't trust carbon dating and the inventer said it had to be done correctly and no one was doing it correctly so he said he didn't even trust his own system) then our sun would have very likely gone supernova. Also, consider life, how could some spacial anomoly assemble carbon (hey, could be some silicon life forms out there) life forms with conciouness into assmbelation with ALL the animals. Not to mention everyone's complex brain. Even in the 25th century we can't make a brain. Don't forget the Earth, how could have all these atmospheric patterns occured by chance and you'll notice in alot of things in science, if one thing is off, then the Earth would have gone BOOM or it would have killed us. Something to ponder for you.

[Jaz4stfguy 0]

I'm one who believes that God created the universe. 

3. The universe is infinite.  Since God has always been and forever will be, I believe it's possible that the universe was created with that same concent.  If God is eternal, why can't existance be infinite?

 

I agree with CJLP and, like TSv, am from a Southern Baptist background. It seems to me that if one believes in the orthodox Christian view of God, that is He is Triune -Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that He is omniscient, omnipotent, and omniprescent, that is all-knowing, all-powerful, and everywhere-present, then a universe that is infinite in size is quite probably true. However, though these discussions about godly things are "facinating", I am reminded of a phrase, that explaining the ways of God is a bit like a clay pot trying to explain the potter. :blink: