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Valeris

Romulan Honor

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You come here just in time for my birthday! Of course, I will be in Kansas by then, but what can I do? I did go to the Simthsonian and though we tried to go to the National Archives, most of the class did not want to for some reason. I hate my class. My journey was alright, aside from the fact that I had seen most it from an RV tour of New England a few years ago and my classmates were really, really annoying.

We do seem to be the only major RSE supporters... wonder where Tal Shiar 8472 is... I certainly hope you were not alone when I was gone.

I think that I will give T'Son a link to these pages so he can see our arguements. Then maybe he will not be able to insult me so much! Knowing T'Son though, it might take a long time... However, you do have some excellent arguements. Who says Romulans cannot be logical!?

 

ILIKESEVEN, I do not understand why you would call a race as a whole stupid, aggressive, ugly, violent, unreliable, and disgusting. Surely even some humans, Vulcans, Klingons, even Romulans are like that... but far from all of them! I am with Welfconfed- where are specific examples where the whole race is like this? And also, did you know about the spell check button?

If I'm able to return to N.C. in Dec. I'll buy a cupcake and put a candle on it in honor of your birthday; that way even if you can't be there yourself, someone in N.C. will be celebrating it for you. :P

I can still remember class trips like the one you described. When I was in grade school, my class got to go to the natural history museum, but I couldn't really enjoy it.( and not just because I was saddened that all those poor animals had to die and be stuffed for the exhibits) While I was there to enjoy learning, my classmates spent the entire time acting more like a bunch of animals than the animals in the exhibits had when alive! *Mr. Darwin, we have a problem* :(

In your absence, I did indeed 'hold the line' against the enemies of the Empire alone, but it was okay, I had confidence that you would eventually return from your latest 'reconnaissance mission' :unsure:

As far as T'Son is concerned, I have faith that you can help him see the logic of our position.

By the way, I've started a story in the fanfiction forum (Star Trek: Dark Reflections), and while it's primarily a mirror universe story, I plan on working some Romulan characters into it. Don't worry I have plans for a Romulan story too. :)

.....and speaking as someone with a bit of a 'type impediment' myself, Spell Check is indeed our friend. :)

Edited by welfconfed

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Hey, I like the Romulans. :unsure: They are one of my favorite ST races. Besides, I think their ships look the coolest.

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It appears the ranks of the 'Romulan guard' are beginning to swell with new recruits. <_< excellent!

As for Romulan vessels, I can't decide between the traditional Warbird or the smaller, more stream-lined version seen in "Star Trek:Nemesis". (SUV vs compact ?) :wub:

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I have returned. I apologise for not being around here l8ly but i have been in the games section. I have to sat that i prefer the classic Romulan Warbird. I am pleased to see more people joining the empire and am also happy that we are converting QSMB.

 

Glory to the Romulan Star Empire.

 

 

:tank: :tomcat: :tank:

 

 

<_<

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In Nemesis the Romulans also showed their desire for peace by sending ships to help the Enterprise fight Shinzon. They did not have to do that but they did anyway.

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In Nemesis the Romulans also showed their desire for peace by sending ships to help the Enterprise fight Shinzon. They did not have to do that but they did anyway.

Nice point!

 

I'd like to bring up a cliche that applies nicely "Don't judge the whole tree by a few bad apples"

 

BTW: IlikeSeven, humans smell bad when when get sweaty and don't wear any deodorant.

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Sorry I have not posted in a few days. It is a weird time, but the good news is: school is almost out! I will be posting a lot less in the next two weeks, then a lot more because it will be just me and the laptop all day. <_< Meanwhile, I am so happy to see so many Romulan supporters here. I love you guys! :wub: I look back at the first page and it is almost all discussion between Welfconfed and me and here, look at everyone!

 

Personally, I like the warbirds in TNG best. They seemed so... regal.

 

Also, I agree with QSMB's cliche. Here is a quote from one of my earlier posts:

I do not understand why you would call a race as a whole stupid, aggressive, ugly, violent, unreliable, and disgusting. Surely even some humans, Vulcans, Klingons, even Romulans are like that... but far from all of them! I am with Welfconfed- where are specific examples where the whole race is like this?
Edited by Valeris

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Sorry I have not posted in a few days. It is a weird time, but the good news is: school is almost out! I will be posting a lot less in the next two weeks, then a lot more because it will be just me and the laptop all day.  :wub:  Meanwhile, I am so happy to see so many Romulan supporters here. I love you guys!  <_<  I look back at the first page and it is almost all discussion between Welfconfed and me and here, look at everyone!

Glad to know that school will be ending for you soon! Look at my new signature, it's all Romulan-ized.

 

BTW: you and welcomfed really have opened up my mind to the Romulans. But this doesn't mean that all Romulan jokes will end on my fan fiction (don't worry pals, I make fun of everyone on that thing, myself included, no one is safe!)

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Tal Shiar 8472- We were becoming concerned, but luckily you returned before we had to send out search partys :bow: Welcome back.

 

Beam me up- Your point is well taken, at the point the Warbirds entered the battle, the Enterprise had already taken damage, all Danatra had to do was aid Shinzon and allow him to continue on his insane mission of mass murder.

The Federation would be delivered a crippling blow, 'Praetor' Shinzon would most likely be killed or captured, along with his Reman crew by Federation forces (every tachyon net, and sensor array in the Federation would instantly go on alert after the attack), the Romulan Empire would be the dominate power in both the Alpha and Beta quadrants (the Klingons, Breen, and Cardassians are still recovering from the Dominion War) and the Romulans could claim it was a illegitimate government put in place by a 'Reman coup' that had staged the attack, thus not only shifting blame away from the Empire (the Federation could hardly wage war against the 'newly freed' government), but also giving the Romulans an excuse to crush the internal threat of the Remans.

So why didn't she give the order to fire on Enterprise?

The Romulans fight when they have too, and then only in defense of their people and their Empire. A Romulan might not consider a covert first strike dishonorable, because considering the Romulans lack of resources, it could be the only way to win. However there is a huge difference between a surprise offensive and planetary genocide, as 'dishonorable' as some may call Romulans, no soldier of the Empire could allow the mass slaughter of, even enemy, civilians.

So she did what she had to do to save lives and the honor of the Romulan Empire.

 

Valeris- What can I say, they were helpless before the power of our logic. :blink:

I'm glad to hear that you'll be free to post more, but just remember to put down the lap top every now and then and enjoy yourself, it's your last summer in N.C. :look:

 

QSMB- I love the 'New Romulan-ized you', and don't worry about the jokes, unlike Vulcans, even the sternest Romulan enjoys a good chuckle now and then. :o

Edited by welfconfed

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QSMB: I have no problem with jokes, except of course, in T'Son's case (hint, hint, T'Son!) where he goes overboard.

 

Welfconfed and Beam Me Up: What you said about Nemesis is interesting. I never thought about that, though I did think that had she seized control and carried everything out herself, it would have gone a lot smoother and the Romulans would actually have ended the dominant power. I sincerely hope, though, that the RSE and the UFP do not end up actually making peace. I rather like having them as enemies. :drool: Also, if the RSE and the UFP allied, then the RSE and the Klingons got into a war, where would the UFP go? Who would they help. After all, I think it highlyh unlikely that the RSE and the Klingons would also become friends. So, the Romulans may not be completely hostile but an alliance would completely ruin them.

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I never thought of it as far as Wolfconfed took it, but that is a good point.

 

The Romulans could also have claimed that Shinzon destroyed the Enterprise had the other two warbirds destroyed it. Destroy the Enterprise, blame the renegades and then crack down on the Remans. They could even have taken the plot a step further.

 

For example, had they chosen they could have destroyed the Enterprise then waited for enough time to allow Shinzon to destroy Earth. Of course, before hand you have found or made a weakness in the the cloaking shield. That weakness should not be easily discernible. After Earth is destroyed, you give the Federation the technology to penetrate the cloaking shield. This should probably be something that will give them the general location of the ship but nothing specific enough to target it. A large portion of Starfleet is destroyed in the hunt for Shinzon leaving the Federation even weaker. The Romulans also have sent ships to help track him down. The do not wage a very zealous attack on Shinzon. After Shinzon's ship is destroyed, a substantial portion of Starfleet has been destroyed too. Based on what happened with the Enterprise E, that is not a foreign possibility. With Earth destroyed and an even greater portion of Starfleet destroyed, the Romulan Empire offers to help the Federation with by lending them ships. If the Federation accepts enough ships, the Romulans can keep a close eye on Starfleet. These ships also can serve to deter Starfleet from attack the Empire. Then the Empire is almost assured of being the dominant power in the quadrant. The Federation does not want to interfere with the Romulans because of the large Romulan presence in the Federation. Starfleet is too weak to interfere and thus the Empire rises to glory again. However, they did not do any of that instead they sent ships to help out the Federation. Truly, the Empire desires peace.

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Valeris: While I don't have any particular aversion to a Federation/Romulan alliance, I understand your concern.

The Romulans were the first, and the most compelling, adversarys Gene Roddenberry ever created. Far from the cliched villains that the Klingons were in TOS, the Romulans were presented as a complex and thoughtful people that, while they may battle the series 'heroes', did so reluctantly and out of a sense of honorable self defense. They are great 'villains' precisely because they are not villains.

 

So, you would have preferred that the lovely Danatra had been in control. :o

Thats what the Empire needs...a strong woman in charge :drool::drool:

 

You're also quite right to point out the Achilles heel of any alliance with the Federation: the Klingons.

Sooner or later, though I have a feeling it would be sooner, the Federation would be forced to choose between their alliance with the Romulans and their relationship with the the Klingons, or risk loosing both as allies.

 

Beam me up: I agree, that in the wake of the attack, the Romulans would be in the position to 'help' the Federation (right into the Empire :o ). The Cardassians did the same thing to the Bajorans. After helping the Bajorans for decades, they finally annexed Bajor out right.

...and we haven't even brought up the possiblity of other Federation worlds that could fall victim to Shinzon before he is stopped, Vulcan, Tellar, Andor, and Betazed are just a few of the targets within just a few light years of the Terran system.

Imagine ALL of the core worlds of the Federation gone.

It would be as if the entire east coast of the United States was wipped out by nuclear attack! :P The UFP would probably fall apart without Romulan help.

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I remeber Balance of Terror, where the Romulan says that he and Kirk might have been friends in another situation. Certainly Kirk never had any such connection with the Klingons.

 

I would not have minded if the situation had gone as you two described it. I myself would have spared some of the UFP core planets (though not Earth) to give them a semblence of self-government before completely taking over. I was really hoping that Nemesis would give the Romulans a chance to make themselves once more a dominant power, thus giving more ammunition to argue with T'Son... LOL. :wub:

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I remeber Balance of Terror, where the Romulan says that he and Kirk might have been friends in another situation. Certainly Kirk never had any such connection with the Klingons.

 

Right you all, the Klingons just wanted to kill Kirk on the spot. Meh, close-minded TOS Klingons :wub:

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Sooner or later, though I have a feeling it would be sooner, the Federation would be forced to choose between their alliance with the Romulans and their relationship with the the Klingons, or risk loosing both as allies.

 

I'd probably pick the Romulans. For the most part the Romulans have left the Federation alone though. I believe at one point the Klingons actually tried to invade the Federation. The Klingons were often abrasive and downright rude to Kirk. The Romulans left the Federation alone for the most part. Sure, they occasionally forayed across the Neutral Zone. They wanted to learn about their enemies. Who would not want to do that?

 

However, it seems like every time someone turns around a Klingon ship is attacking some Enterprise.

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I'm sorry i havent really been around l8ly been playing freelancer 2 much i will try to post more 2moro because its 2302 and i need sleep.

 

Gory to the Star Empire.

 

 

:tank: :tomcat: :tank:

 

 

:wub:

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Valeris and QSMB: I'm glad that you mentioned "The Balance of Terror" and the contrast with the TOS Klingons. I rewatched the episode today and a couple of things got me to thinking.

First, Commander Hansen, the Star Fleet officer in command of outpost four, reported to the Enterprise about their conflict with the Romulans, "...no answer to our challenge..", not "our hail", but "our challenge". I'm not trying to say that the outposts had it coming, but it is enough to make one wonder about the chain of events leading up to the attacks that the Enterprise responded to.

Did Hansen or one of his fellow Commanders do or say something to lead the Romulans to believe that they were in danger of attack?

Was it a reconnaissance mission that went horribly wrong? Did the Romulans uncloak to see the reaction from the 'Earth men' and in that moment of shock at seeing a ship appear out of nowhere, did someone make a fatal mistake?

Did this blunder contribute to the Romulan commanders fatalistic despair, consider his exchange with his friend the Centurion:

 

CENTURION: We've seen a hundred campaigns together and still I do not understand you.

COMMANDER: I think you do. No need to tell you what happens the moment we return with proof of the Earthmans weakness, and we will have proof. The Earth Commander will follow, he must, and when he attacks, we will destroy him....our gift to the homeland,....another war.

(note he never said that it had been their MISSION to engage the humans, and did he feel bitterness toward the prospect of a war that was started by their failed reconn mission, thus his fault?)

CENTURION:If we are the strong, is this not the signal for war?

(an attempt to reassure his friend that 'maybe its for the best, after all, it appears we are stronger, thus will win if there is a war?)

COMMANDER: Must it always be so! How many comrades have we lost in this way!

(Is he thinking of all the friends they had lost in wars over other 'small mistakes' like the one they had just made?)

CENTURION: Our portion Commander...is obedience.

(In other words 'Regardless of what mistakes were made, we had better focus on our duty to our ship and Empire now'?)

COMMANDER: Obedience..duty...death,and more death, soon even enough for the Praetor's taste.( anger directed at a leader that had ordered such a dangerously provocative mission, one that would now cause a war.)

Centurion...I find myself wishing for distruction before we can return.(The only way to save both Human and Romulan lives, by preventing a war he feels responsible for starting?)

Worry not, like you, I am too well trained in my duty to permit it. (I won't put my personal honor above my responsibility to my ship and crew?)

Some how I don't see the TOS klingons having that kind of ethical problem.

 

Beam me up: I agree, I always thought that it would have been smarter to listen to people like Valeris (The one in "The Undiscovered Country", though I think people should listen to 'our Valeris' too :look: ) and removed the 'Klingon threat' with the help of the Romulans when they had the chance.( after all Romulan/Federation relations had to be pretty good if the Romulan Ambassador sat in on UFP meetings regarding covert ops against the Klingons :laugh: )

Edited by welfconfed

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That is precisely why I chose the screen name Valeris. I completely agree with her. Had I been on the Enterprise A, I would have done exactly the same thing she did, minus going into sickbay because of that false announcement and getting caught.

 

Though the Romulans and the Federation both... toed the line... when it came to... space disagreements, they never went far enough to actually start a second RSE/UFP war. However, the the Klingons and the Federation seemed to be perpetually at war. At least, Kirk and the Klingons were. :laugh:

 

It is interesting to think that the Romulans never intended to harm the Federation. That would go to further the evidence that most of the "space disagreements" were mainly caused by the UFP. If they were threatening the Romulan ship, naturally they would have to retaliate. Fascinating turn, thank you, Welfconfed.

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Your absolutely right about Valeris. When you really think about it she and the other 'conspirators' really had the best interests of both the Federation and the Klingon Empire at heart. By Worf's own admission, when the Klingons conquered a world, they engaged in mass slaughter of the planets leadership, and virtual slavery of the rest of the planets population.

How could the Federation aid a government that was nothing more than a gang of thugs that went raping and pillaging across the galaxy! By taking a tough stand, with the help of the Romulans, against the Klingons, billions of beings could have been free from tyranny.

However the UFP chose instead to help maintain the status quo, to turn their backs on the victims of the Klingons, so as not to be diverted from their comfortable lives in the utopian Federation. How morally courageous of them. :laugh:

... and it's people like Valeris that are labeled traitors for their willingness to stand up for the oppressed in the Klingon Empire, for the safety of federation citizens, and for the morals and ethics that the UFP CLAIMS to embody.

No wonder the Romulans decided to sever ties with the Federation afterwards!

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One of my favorite parts of STVI was this scene:

VALERIS: You've betryed the Federation. All of you.

KIRK: What do you think you've been doing!?

VALERIS: Saving Starfleet.

It is so true! Those preciously few with the ability to see that the Klingons would bring themselves, and the UFP, down were all condemned! The Federation cannot make peace everywhere. However, they are unwilling to accept the fact that a lot of races are not all peace, love, and joy hippie-ish like them. That is their downfall. Some races care only for conquering the quadrant and to heck with "cooperating together." I think the Romulans were wise not to sign the original Treaty of Algeron (see The Lost Era: 2311: Serpants Among the Ruins), and also not to ally with the UFP. Their intentions might be good, but they are too willing to trust.

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One of my favorite parts of STVI was this scene:

VALERIS: You've betryed the Federation. All of you.

KIRK: What do you think you've been doing!?

VALERIS: Saving Starfleet.

It is so true! Those preciously few with the ability to see that the Klingons would bring themselves, and the UFP, down were all condemned! The Federation cannot make peace everywhere. However, they are unwilling to accept the fact that a lot of races are not all peace, love, and joy hippie-ish like them. That is their downfall. Some races care only for conquering the quadrant and to heck with "cooperating together." I think the Romulans were wise not to sign the original Treaty of Algeron (see The Lost Era: 2311: Serpants Among the Ruins), and also not to ally with the UFP. Their intentions might be good, but they are too willing to trust.

"Peace, love, and joy hippie-ish" :P Oh, mercy..thats funny, I like that one.

 

The Federation has endangered the entire galaxy with its naivete...

 

Not only did they mishandle the 'Klingon situation', but the Borg, and the Dominion as well.

The only thing that has saved them up to now has been that what they lack in common sense they make up for with dumb luck. :P

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Wolfconfed, you forgot the Romulans. They played a role in saving the Federation from their own mistakes.

Quite true, though I'm sure the Federation won't see it that way. :P

Does kind of explain the Romulans frustration with the UFP. :P

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Ha, that is true. I just watched an episode of DS9 and oh my light, did the Federation look silly. Then the Romulans came swooping in and everyone was preparing for a fight, but then they said they were there basically to save the UFP's tails from the Dominion and Cardassians. It was quite interesting. Yet, the two were still arguing in Nemesis... *sigh* They remind me of my two best friends... LMAO.

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Ha, that is true. I just watched an episode of DS9 and oh my light, did the Federation look silly. Then the Romulans came swooping in and everyone was preparing for a fight, but then they said they were there basically to save the UFP's tails from the Dominion and Cardassians. It was quite interesting. Yet, the two were still arguing in Nemesis... *sigh* They remind me of my two best friends... LMAO.

Do you by any chance remember the title of the episode?

 

Keep in mind the events in Nemesis were the result of a coup on Romulus that was led by a human and the Remans, with help from a very small group of Romulan officers. Luckily, Danatra was there to save the day. :lol:

 

Good thing your friends don't have phasers, other wise things could get....messy.

:P

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It was a two-part episode: In Purgatory's Shadow and By Inferno's Light.

 

I had forgotten that the Remans were really the ones at fault... but even the UFP and the real RSE were not as close as one might think. Whatever.

 

I once wrote a fanfic where my friends had phasers... I did not let them kill each other though because I needed them for the rest of the fic... LMAO. I do not know how it would have gone in real life though... :P

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Ha, that is true. I just watched an episode of DS9 and oh my light, did the Federation look silly. Then the Romulans came swooping in and everyone was preparing for a fight, but then they said they were there basically to save the UFP's tails from the Dominion and Cardassians. It was quite interesting. Yet, the two were still arguing in Nemesis... *sigh* They remind me of my two best friends... LMAO.

Ooooo, I watched that one last night too. Well, you know how us human can be sometimes, close minded and such. A few years ago I decided that all of humanity was doomed. Optimistic, aren't I?

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I have known that humanity was doomed since I was eight. Go figure. No wonder I turned out how I did. My friends say that I would win the award for "Miss Pessimist." They are right. Humans are close-minded; I have a bumper sticker that says, "Minds are like parachutes; they only work when open!" :naughty: I put it on the front of my noptebook.

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QSMB and Valeris: I agree that the vast majority of the human race is close minded and ignorant, but at least there are three of us with an open mind. :(

Six billion to three..... :wub: .....well, its a start :(

 

Don't you love a challenge. :tear:

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