Section 31 On Star Trek Enterprise?

[Captain Bolivar 0]

Personally I don't think the idea would make sense. Why would they need a section 31 when there is only ONE ship out there. Starfleet is a small operation right now, and it is a fairly uncomplicated one as well. In 7 years when the Federation is founded, there are several Starfleet ships, and there are alliances, not to mention Romulan wars... then maybe I could see a use for it. But not now. Also, like it was mentioned with the Romulan war idea, they shouldn't make the war a plot for Enterprise just because it was mentioned as a blurb in Star Trek... nor should Section 31 be a part of Enterprise because there was a blurb about it being around since the Charter of the Federation was created (which was after Enterprise anyway). The only way I could fathom the idea on the show would be to have Section 31 come from the distant future for some reason, probably having to do with the cold war. Edited October 21, 2003 by Commander Bolivar

[VaBeachGuy 12]

nor should Section 31 be a part of Enterprise because there was a blurb about it being around since the Charter of the Federation was created (which was after Enterprise anyway).

No, Section 31 pre-dates the Federation. According to DS9 episode "Inquisition" (Season 6 episode #18) Sloan explains to Doctor Bashir what section 31 is.

 

Here's the clip from the episode where he explains that Section 31 was part of the original Starfleet charter (not the Federation Charter).

 

Section 31

 

 

Because of this I think it's reasonable to conclude that Section 31 already exists and may well have someone as a member of the crew on Enterprise.

[trekzone 0]

nor should Section 31 be a part of Enterprise because there was a blurb about it being around since the Charter of the Federation was created (which was after Enterprise anyway).  

No, Section 31 pre-dates the Federation. According to DS9 episode "Inquisition" (Season 6 episode #18) Sloan explains to Doctor Bashir what section 31 is.

 

Here's the clip from the episode where he explains that Section 31 was part of the original Starfleet charter (not the Federation Charter).

 

Section 31

 

 

Because of this I think it's reasonable to conclude that Section 31 already exists and may well have someone as a member of the crew on Enterprise.

actually,

 

that would make complete sense...because being the first ship out in space S31 will wanna know whats coming, and being the extremists that they have been portrayed as, it would only be logical :)

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Well, I think that if Section 31 didn't exist before the Xindi they surely do now and it would be more then reasonable to believe that there is an agent involved in this mission.

[Captain Bolivar 0]

Ok, your right, it says Starfleet Charter, not Federation Charter (if there even is one) but what could a Section 31 agent possibly do on Enterprise. Section 31 members need power to get things done, on Enterprise they would have to power unless they were the Captain or something like that. How could a lowly ensign check for threats to Starfleet on Ent? Even if that ensign were able to find out about one, he could just beam off the ship to deal with it... the Captain would have to order him to, but since the Captain wouldn't know about it... besides, the senior crew is just as capable of dealing with threats. I don't just don't feel that section 31 would be very functional in this situation. A section 31 member needs resources... I can't think of any they would have!

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Ok, your right, it says Starfleet Charter, not Federation Charter (if there even is one) but what could a Section 31 agent possibly do on Enterprise.  Section 31 members need power to get things done, on Enterprise they would have to power unless they were the Captain or something like that.  How could a lowly ensign check for threats to Starfleet on Ent?  Even if that ensign were able to find out about one, he could just beam off the ship to deal with it... the Captain would have to order him to, but since the Captain wouldn't know about it... besides, the senior crew is just as capable of dealing with threats.  I don't just don't feel that section 31 would be very functional in this situation.  A section 31 member needs resources... I can't think of any they would have!

Why does the Captain have to remain in the dark? Why does the agent have to be an ensign? Why can't he be the Major in charge of the MACOs? Who says he doesn't have resources? Why can't he be there to observe? This seems like a perfect reason for Section 31 to be there (the Xindi). To say that they couldn't do this kind of story isn't showing a lot of faith in the writers and producers to come up with a unique and well written story that would fit in with the established timeline.

 

If Archer were to learn of the existence of Section 31 I don't think it would be out of character for the established secrecy of Section 31, after all Bashir knows of them. So does O'Brien, Odo, Sisko, Dax and Worf. They aren't well known but that's not to say they are completely invisible and unknown.

 

I think it would make a good tie in with DS9 and would show backward continuity. After all, we are here to see how it all begins. Right?

[fredbroca 0]

This thread makes me sad that the books are not cannon. Their was a great sectiion 31 book based in the TOS time that was just great and I really can see at least an observer on enterprise their have been ships before enterprise just not warp 5 capable I could see even at the time of enterprise section 31 having ships and if anything the section 31 person could be onboard enterprise to try to get daniels database.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

This thread makes me sad that the books are not cannon.  Their was a great sectiion 31 book based in the TOS time that was just great and I really can see at least an observer on enterprise their have been ships before enterprise just not warp 5 capable I could see even at the time of enterprise section 31 having ships and if anything the section 31 person could be onboard enterprise to try to get daniels database.

True, we see ships come to the rescue of Enterprise on it's return to Earth at the end os season 2.

 

It would make an interesting story to see Section 31 try to get control of Daniels database, if they did gain control of it even for a short time it might explain how they can remain so well hidden.

[therabidirishman 0]

Sure.I'd be all for a good cloak & dagger,Section 31 episode or two.

[Captain Bolivar 0]

Ok, your right, it says Starfleet Charter, not Federation Charter (if there even is one) but what could a Section 31 agent possibly do on Enterprise.  Section 31 members need power to get things done, on Enterprise they would have to power unless they were the Captain or something like that.  How could a lowly ensign check for threats to Starfleet on Ent?  Even if that ensign were able to find out about one, he could just beam off the ship to deal with it... the Captain would have to order him to, but since the Captain wouldn't know about it... besides, the senior crew is just as capable of dealing with threats.  I don't just don't feel that section 31 would be very functional in this situation.  A section 31 member needs resources... I can't think of any they would have!

Why does the Captain have to remain in the dark? Why does the agent have to be an ensign? Why can't he be the Major in charge of the MACOs? Who says he doesn't have resources? Why can't he be there to observe? This seems like a perfect reason for Section 31 to be there (the Xindi). To say that they couldn't do this kind of story isn't showing a lot of faith in the writers and producers to come up with a unique and well written story that would fit in with the established timeline.

 

If Archer were to learn of the existence of Section 31 I don't think it would be out of character for the established secrecy of Section 31, after all Bashir knows of them. So does O'Brien, Odo, Sisko, Dax and Worf. They aren't well known but that's not to say they are completely invisible and unknown.

 

I think it would make a good tie in with DS9 and would show backward continuity. After all, we are here to see how it all begins. Right?

VBG, i was using the ensign thing as an example. My point was that a section 31 member isn't likely to be a member of the bridge crew. T'Pol is an alien, Trip just doesn't seem like one, Hoshi was chosen at the last moment.. etc. So the crew member that would be Section 31 would have to be of a more lowly rank, which means that he won't have resources per se, because as a lowly officer he does what the Captain says and can't just do what he wants. Futhermore, because of Section 31's secrecy, he could tell the Cpatain about a situation to resolve it because that would reveal Section 31, thus, how would such a member resolve a situation. True, they could observe, but what exactly would that accomplish? I'm sure there is some story the writteres could write to fix some of these issues, but I don't think Section 31 would be particularly useful. In the future, Section 31 would have many contacts to use for their beifit, but now, the only people to use is the crew of Enterprise, and I don't belive that could be done effeciently. I think Archer and his crew are the ones that will have to deal with threats for now. I could see Section 31 maybe as a unit that deals with corruption within Starfleet perhaps. Oh, but if there was a Section 31 member, you are totally right, the MACO's would be an excellent choice!

[VaBeachGuy 12]

VBG, i was using the ensign thing as an example.  My point was that a section 31 member isn't likely to be a member of the bridge crew.  T'Pol is an alien, Trip just doesn't seem like one, Hoshi was chosen at the last moment.. etc.  So the crew member that would be Section 31 would have to be of a more lowly rank, which means that he won't have resources per se, because as a lowly officer he does what the Captain says and can't just do what he wants.  Futhermore, because of Section 31's secrecy, he could tell the Cpatain about a situation to resolve it because that would reveal Section 31, thus, how would such a member resolve a situation.  True, they could observe, but what exactly would that accomplish?  I'm sure there is some story the writteres could write to fix some of these issues, but I don't think Section 31 would be particularly useful.  In the future, Section 31 would have many contacts to use for their beifit, but now, the only people to use is the crew of Enterprise, and I don't belive that could be done effeciently.  I think Archer and his crew are the ones that will have to deal with threats for now.  I could see Section 31 maybe as a unit that deals with corruption within Starfleet perhaps.  Oh, but if there was a Section 31 member, you are totally right, the MACO's would be an excellent choice!

I'm not sure about how much is known about the "unseen" crew members but why wouldn't it be possible to have a Commander working in a speciality that isn't a Bridge officer? The person doesn't "have" to be lower ranking. But lets say he/she is an Ensign on Enterprise, if this person is from Section 31 then the rank of Ensign is likely fake anyway. If section 31 were to place an agent on the Enterprise they would do so in a manner that he/she would have all of the resources he/she needed, so I don't think that would be a problem.

 

Futhermore, because of Section 31's secrecy, he could tell the Cpatain about a situation to resolve it because that would reveal Section 31, thus, how would such a member resolve a situation.

 

Did you mean "couldn't tell Captain Archer" or "Could"? If you meant "Couldn't" why couldn't he/she tell Archer? Section 31 is a secret section but not invisible. People in Starfleet do know about it's existence.

 

A sort of example is the U.S. Army's "Delta Force", for a long time (and possibly even now) the government would never officially acknowledge it's existence when everyone knew/knows that it does indeed exist.

 

Back to the world of Star Trek, Section doesn't make it their practice that "No one" can know of their existence. Sloan told Bashir, he freely spoke of it in front of O'Brien. So there would be no reason that Captain Archer would have to be kept in the dark about it.

 

I'm willing to bet that with a little bit of imagination the writers could write a good story.

[Captain Bolivar 0]

OK, lets assume,the operative tells Archer of a certain threat. I'm sure Archer would want to deal with it, but Archer would still deal with it in his way. Also, since it is the bridge crew that has access to external scans, intitiates most contact with aliens and friendlies, and gets involved the most, it isn't likley that an operative not part of the bridge crew would be able observe much, and as I pointed out, if he went the Captain, if he were to observe something, the Captain would still deal with it in his way.

 

Daniels was an operative that was diguised as a lower member of the crew but Daniels had technology that the rest of the crew didn't. It is likely he could conduct research and dissmantle threats without anyone being the wiser. He had resources.

 

I can't think of many resources that would be available to a section 31 member without such technogies as the resources would need to come from the ship (for the most part) Every officer has to account for resources and time spent to their superior. Can you think of some way to circumvent this?

[VaBeachGuy 12]

This seems like a good topic to bump now.

[Frosty 0]

Seems 'Afflication' revealed everyone's theories of a possbile Section 31 operative on Enterprise.

 

Lt. Malcolm Reed

[WEAREBORG4102 0]

Maybe.

[LoveMalePecs1 0]

I put maybe they might have been around when Enterprise was just starting to explore the Galaxy if there was a year 5 on Enterprise that could've maybe been explored in a bit more detail just to the audience would be a mystery to the main crew of Enterprise of course.

 

:lol:

[Essoq 0]

Maybe. Are we talking about

Click For Spoiler

How Reed seems to be a member? That dude seems section 31ish.

. Someone else mentioned that section 31 is part of the federation charter (And would therefore not exist) but couldn't it have existed before it was made "official". OR maybe all the original 31ers, started out as some other secret organization. As long as it's done well, after about three seconds I got sick of

Click For Spoiler

I wish I could tell my captain. Captain, I can't tell you anything, please don't put me in the brig. Please let me out of the brig. I'm so torn between my loyalties. Boo hoo.

.

[Jack_Bauer 1]

  Every officer has to account for resources and time spent to their superior.  Can you think of some way to circumvent this? 

83639[/snapback]

Well, Reed does have unlimited access to the armoury and I believe he prepares the duty roster. However, it is important to point out that Reed is a former agent of Section 31. As far as we know he was never active during his time on board Enterprise.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Someone else mentioned that section 31 is part of the federation charter (And would therefore not exist) but couldn't it have existed before it was made "official".

304765[/snapback]

 

It was actually a part of the original Starfleet Charter, which pre-dates the Federation.

[Capt_Picard 0]

I believe that Section 31 was created after the Eugenics Wars and or World War Three by the United Nations to prevent anyone threating the life of humans again. Section 31 might see the Klingons as a threat or might have a plan to use this outbreak to their advantage in protecting Earth or to their own benefit. Either way... this spells bad times for the crew on Enterprise.

[Klingonmike 0]

I voted yes,I would not be surprised if an agent for Section 31 is already a crewman on Enterprise,taking notes and sending info on possible dangerous aliens back to earth.

13494[/snapback]

 

 

I posted almost a year ago and it looks like I may have been right!!!

[mj 7]

I voted yes, after the fact.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

I believe that Section 31 was created after the Eugenics Wars and or World War Three by the United Nations to prevent anyone threating the life of humans again. Section 31 might see the Klingons as a threat or might have a plan to use this outbreak to their advantage in protecting Earth or to their own benefit. Either way... this spells bad times for the crew on Enterprise.

304829[/snapback]

 

Seems to me the origins of S 31 must date back at least to the events chronicled in DS9s: Little Green Men. (Roswell NM :wink2: ) Such a perfect tie-in!!!

[Jack_Bauer 1]

I believe that Section 31 was created after the Eugenics Wars and or World War Three by the United Nations to prevent anyone threating the life of humans again. Section 31 might see the Klingons as a threat or might have a plan to use this outbreak to their advantage in protecting Earth or to their own benefit. Either way... this spells bad times for the crew on Enterprise.

304829[/snapback]

 

Seems to me the origins of S 31 must date back at least to the events chronicled in DS9s: Little Green Men. (Roswell NM :wink2: ) Such a perfect tie-in!!!

337562[/snapback]

Which means it could exist right now!