trekbabe

Nice one !!

Well done !!

Congrats !!

Congratulations !!

Still, (I'm not disagreeing with you, trekbabe), even the humanitarian aspect aside, there are still many reasons to go to war now:

• Saddam has Biological and Chemical weapons and is not afraid to use them
   
   
   
   
  
• He might have nuclear, but he will try to get them
   
   
   
   
  
• If he doesn't use these weapons, he will likely sell them to (guess who!) Terrorists!
   
   
   
   
  
• If we don't go to war now, it will likely get worse, he will get more weapons, and sell or use them, etc.
   
   
   
   
  
• Not to mention the possibility of using his robot drones to spray chemical and biological weapons on his enemies - Israel, maybe even the U.S.!
  

So, there are many good reasons we should go to war...

 

In the famous words of...whoever said this...

 

"War is something no one wants, but must be done from time to time to maintain the quality and abundance of life"

Absolutely agree with everything you say. We are right to go in now,despite UN objections for all the reasons you have mentioned but going in without UN backing really worries me.

I'm not a big fan of Bush,But I support going into Iraq and removing Saddam Insane 150%.The man is pure evil.Amnesty International has a list of crimes him and his thugs have committed,everything from eye gouging to acid baths,rapes to beheadings.He has no right running a country,he has proven he has no care for his people.Recently one woman spoke out against Saddam in Iraq,she was arrested and they chopped her head off (Fox news report).

 

This war is most certainly NOT about oil,its about the liberation and freedom of an oppressed society.Yes people may die,but in the long run more people will live.

 

As for those that are upset soldiers may get killed,well they volunteered with the full knowledge there is a chance they may die in combat.I was in the Army and I was very willing to lay my life on the line so others can live a free and democratic life.

 

You know its a damn if you do damned if you don't situation,If we do nothing and pull out of Iraq and then Saddam nukes Israel or chemically attacks Kuwait then the world will look to the U.S and whine about us not doing anything to stop him.

Totally agree,except your assertion that it is about freeing the iraqi people. That is the last thing it is about. As previously stated the freedom of the iraqi people is just a happy circumstance. Saddam is evil personified, and i don't really care about the hidden agenda's( and don't kid yourself there won't be any), as long as they get rid of him. This man needs to be taken out immediately. However the flouting of international law is a very dangerous game to play, no matter how powerful you THINK you are.

Let's not be misled. There are huge propoganda campaigns on BOTH sides of this argument,and valid points for and against going to war. An ideal scenario would have been for the allied forces in the last Gulf War to have carried on into Baghdad, allowing the uprising wanting to topple Saddam's evil regime to succeed. We pulled out,and Saddam consequently quelled the uprising and stayed in power. This then allowed America to convince Saudi that they needed a permanant American military prescence to dispel any potential threat from him.

Therefore the situation we are in now is that whether you like it or not,Saddam is a threat to world peace. Not particularly because there is a fear he will use the wmd himself,although that is not wholly unlikely. It is foremost, the fear of who he could sell them too, who will without a doubt use them.

Valid points are made,regarding the oppression and torture of the iraqi people and this needs to be addressed.

I am sure they want Saddam out as much as we do and going to war will achieve this,although it cannot be used as an argument for war,despite it's validity. The UN mandate is about disarming Saddam and must be approached as such. However right the humanitarian angle is it is not in the mandate. Freeing the Iraqi people will be a consequence,albeit a welcome one, of the war and not a reason for war.

I for one think the war is justified.

alright. sorry. ya i went a little overboard. lol. 

Hey don't apologise,we are all here to give our opinions and we don't have to necessarily agree. It's good to get some debate don't you think?

they are doing the same thing every movie company does though. they release the standard dvd and then a while later the special edition dvd. the one i was happy about was lotr because they told us that there was an extended edition to be released.

yeah and i like how Peter Jackson integrated the extra footage into the movie itself, rather than just sticking them in the DVD.

I love it when they go to the Holodeck together, seems like it would be so much fun!

I agree!!

 

-Laur

The episode that seemed like a lot of fun also was "Badda-bing, Badda-bang" I like it when they all walk through Quarks dressed to the nines and Quark looks at them like they are insane... lol

 

Vics would be a fun place to hang out.

Yeah it was great that scene. Odo is one of my favourite characters, but i really love Garak, he's so deep. You're never quite sure whether he's going to use the phaser in his hand to shoot the Jem Hadar about to killl you or shoot you!!!! And his sense of humour and irony is right up my street,his one liner's are classics. :)

well Roddenberry really tried to relay the mesaages of the faults of our society today in Star Trek. That has sort of died off with the spin-offs. It is still existent but not so much as Gene had intended it to be.

Very true. They need to get some of the old writers back that worked on TNG,can't remember their names off the top of my head but i know a lot of them are no longer involved with ST. I Borg was a brilliant episode,and the Data episode "Measure of a Man" was absolutely outstanding. ST at it's best most definately. They just don't write 'em like that anymore,more's the pity.

If anything Ruins Star Trek its Berman and Brega!!

 

-Laur :)

Agreed. Although Enterprise is growing on me D&D are going for the lot's of eye candy,don't worry too much about the storyline culture of today,and that's not what ST is about. Having said that Trip Tucker is SOME eye candy.WHOAHHH !!

The Producers are sooooo stupid.. Rick Berman and the other guys.. their not thinking of the fans there only thinking of making money...

 

-Laur

Absolutely right !! I really don't think our opinion matters to them at all, in fact i know it doesn't. As you say, it's all about making money,which is fair enough as it is a franchise,but ST fans are a special and very loyal kind of fan. This is sometimes taken for granted. Dumber(Berman, Braga being Dumb), I feel, thinks we will swallow anything as long as it has a star trek prefix and that annoys me.

ABSOULTLY NOTHING

i do NOT want to go to war AT ALL.. honestly in my opinion Bush is an IDIOT.. but then agian we can not have another Pearl harbour Tragedy... so i guess in a way hes smart..

I agree with Bush being an idiot but not the whole 'Pearl Harbour' thing. It is more oil then it is anything. Sure there is are a SMALL AMOUNT of respectable reasons to go to war but not enough. The bigger threat is coming from North Korea and is growing in Iran. Those people have worse weapons then Iraq. We all need to sign a peace treaty. War will get us nowhere but dead.

Sorry but i don't agree that it is about oil. If that was the case Tony Blair would not be willing to have a UN mandate drawn up to have the oil put in trust for the iraqi people so that no one can touch it , us included. I think it has more to do with Saddam's own utterences about his " nuclear mujahadin" to " defeat the enemy",said before any threat of war i might add. Also,when the weapons inspectors went back in last year they found 44 NEW CHEMICAL WEAPONS SITES that were not there in '98 when they left,which kinda blows the assertion that they don't have the money to produce WMD out of the water. The non proliferation treaty means member states promise not to sell, buy, seek to manufacture or control nuclear weapons. Iraq has been a member since 1969.

here is one of my favourite sites, it HAS EVERYTHING you could want to know, and more. LCARS Computer Network very cool.

MINE TOO.

the DVD is going to have deleted scenes so i think it will make more sense to people, and more true to the stuff that leaked out before it's release

Nemesis DVD news

I thought maybe i would like the DVD better. However I was reading STM and Berman said the first DVD will be flat format. Later they will bring out the all singing all dancing one. He then went on to say that they are not sure about a directors cut DVD as neither he or Stuart Baird are fond of them. I say it doesn't matter what they like,it's what we the fans want that matters.

I don't WANT to go to war and neither does Bush, however this is something that has to be done, Saddam's record speaks for it self, the vast majority of americans do WANT to go to war, which something is being ignored in the major media. Germany does not want to go to war because the German state of mind is War is Bad, because of world war II. The french, well don't get me started. This is matter that is America's battle, and if needed America will fight on it's own, we have a volunteer army for a reason.  When we go in and uncover just what he has been doing to his own people i will expect a full apology from our opposition and the peaceniks in this country. War is bad, yes but this something that has been a long time comeing, Saddam must go, this isn't going to be a war like WWII, or korea, it will be over in 2 weeks, this not another Vietnam this a War to protect our interrest, the people of Iraq want him gone but he has guns to their heads, and the People of Iraq do not have the Right to Free Protest as WE DO in America, Canada, England, or etc. This is a war for Independace, just like the won our forefathers fought for in the land our Fathers came to escape people like Saddam.

[rant over]

so......when's the next new episode of Enterprise, eh?

in total agreement. Blair said we would be willing to let him go into exile,even though this means him effectively getting off the hook, if it meant avoiding war.

There were simular divisions regarding one Adolf Hitler and look what happened to the French!!!!

If we had taken the same stance in WW 2, the french would have been goosed,but we didn't.Again the US and UK made a stand and were proved to be right.......and liberated the French while we were at it.

Iwould feel much better with a 2nd resolution though,despite the fact that morally we don't need one.

It is not just America's fight. The western( free) world has a resposibility to stand up and be counted and it's about time they did.

Here's a controversial one for my first post in the new forum.......... What did you all think of Nemesis then?

I for one was not very enamoured with it. Apart from nice little touches like Data,oops, i mean B4 humming the tune at the end and Picards knowing grin that is. The storyline was potentially mindblowing

but i felt not enough attention to trek details spoilt it for me.Lacking in the star trek spirit is the best way i've heard it described.

First Contact without a doubt.

But i believe thats its stupid.. like the senselss killing of millions just to get to one life.. like i live in Canada have nothing to do with the war.. i do not believe war is any answer but in the cross fire i could be killed.. never getting a chance to have children, maybe not able to finish  my education.. but the same thing could happen if i crossed the street and got hit by a car..

but our world needs to be more like star trek...

or like how it was in the TNG episode "Justice" they were really peaceful..

 

-Laur

 

Agree...to a point. War should be the absolutely last resort,and that is where we are at the moment. I like you wish it could be like Star Trek , but look at the devastation that took place in earth's history to get us to that point. I wish Jean-luc could just beam in and sort it all out for us. I've said on numerous occasions that Star Trek should be compulsory viewing for our politicians but as that is not going to happen we just have to trust in our elected govts to get it right.

Personally I think the threat of another war is doing it's work.

 

Everyday I see and hear that more WMD are being dismantled by IRAQ.  :)

 

I do not want to believe that the war is about oil but if it happens despite what I am seeing happening with the WMD then I am going to be forced into believing, the oil or the good of our economy is the engine behind it all.   

Watched Tony Blair in a debate on MTV the other night and someone posed this question about oil. He replied that he would like a UN mandate drawing up that puts all oil in Iraq in trust for Iraq, and that NO ONE but Iraq is allowed access to it. That's good enough for me that is not about oil as i have always believed.

Here's a quote that is very apt for the current situation.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" Edmund Burke

Like everyone else i don't want a war but i feel it is necessary. There are arguments both for and against going in without a 2nd ( or 18th, if you want to go back 12 years) resolution. Whist my opinion is that US and UK have enough justification to go in without it, flouting international law worries me,not in the now but the future. Overall my opinion is yes we are justified to use force and we should as this is the only thing that will make the butcher of baghdad disarm, preferably with another resolution.