Captain Jean-Luc Picard

So? The NX-01 looks like a 22nd century ship to me. Did it every occur to you that the Akira-class is based on a 22nd-century starship? <_<

If I had enough spare time, I could draw just as many similarities between the TOS Enterprise & the Enterprise-D or between Voyager and the Enterprise-E. <_< In real life, the NX-class is based on the fan-favorite Akira-class, but in the Trek universe, the Akira-class is based on the NX-class. Why is this so hard to figure out?

In my opinion Harry, it is canon unless I see some proof..

THE U.F.P. GRAND SEAL: In the episode ¡§Shadows of P¡¦Jem¡¨ [ENT] the United Federation of Planets grand seal can be seen flying on a flag on Earth in the opening sequence. How is this possible a decade before the Federation was ever established?

Also the version of the grand seal shown in that episode did not come into service until the 24th century, prior to that time different more simplified versions were used (TOS and Movies).

I checked the episode. That's not the UFP symbol, but rather the Starfleet symbol, similar to the one NASA has.

DAEDALUS CLASS: Where are they???

They don't exist yet.

AKIRA CLASS: The NX-01 ship used in Enterprise is an Akira Class vessel, like it or not.

Here's an Akira-class ship:

Click for Spoiler:

Here's a NX-class ship:

Click for Spoiler:

Clearly, they are not the same design.

Ship classes are based upon the ship¡¦s configuration or basic shape.

By that standard then, every single ship in the U.S. Navy are all one design, becuase they all have the basic "ship" look. :)

That NX-01, which we first saw in September of 2001, has exactly the same configuration as that of the Akira Class U.S.S. Thunderchild NCC-63549 first seen as a new design in ¡§Star Trek First Contact¡¨ 1996 set 200 years later than ENT.

See the above pictures. Aside from a "saucer", a catacomb area, and two warp engines mounted on warp pylons, the ships have no similarities.

The Nacelles are different and in a slightly different position agreed, just as they were on the Constitution Class original U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 (TOS) from those on the refitted Constitution Class NCC-1701-A.

Of coars the nacelles are different. They're a cross between the Pheonix and TOS Enterprise. As for the warp pylons being in a slighly different position? Both ship classes have entirely different pylon configurations.

There¡¦s no denying the configuration is the same, therefore NX-01 is Akira Class.

There's no denying you're completely wrong, based on the pictures I provided earlier, therefor the NX-class and Akira-class are clearly two different designs.

TOO MANY SHIPS: There have only ever been 6 Starships named Enterprise, this was pointed out by Lucksley in the episode ¡§Trials and tribbilations¡¨ [DS9], not federation ships, not ships in general and not shuttles, starships.

He was referring to Enterprises carring the registry number of NCC-1701. Seeing as they're both familiar with Enterprise lineage, there was no need for him to be that specific.

Also the dedication plaque on the Enterprise-D includes the words ¡§Fifth Starships to bear the name¡¨ just as the plaque on the Enterprise-E includes the words ¡§Sixth Starship to bear the name¡¨.

Earth Starfleet and Federation Starfleet are different organizations, but both run by Humans. The plaque refers to Federation starships named Enterprise, not every Starfleet ship.

Starship, not Federation or anything like that! The NX-01 is a Starship isn¡¦t it?

Yes, but it came before the Federation. The British had "ships" named Enterprise. Do we count them when listing American ships named Enterprise, hmm?

These ships include:

„X 1 NCC-1701 (Original and refitted)

„X 2 NCC-1701-A (Movies)

„X 3 NCC-1701-B (¡§Star Trek Generations¡¨)

„X 4 NCC-1701-C (¡§Yesterday¡¦s Enterprise¡¨ [TNG])

„X 5 NCC-1701-D (¡§Star Trek the Next Generation¡¨)

„X 6 NCC-1701-E (¡§Star Trek First Contact¡¨, ¡§Star Trek Insurrection¡¨ and ¡§Star Trek Nemesis¡¨)

This NX-01 fits in NO WHERE!

That's right, the NX-01 was not a Federation starship.

SUBSPACE RADIO: Subspace communication had not been invented in 2168 (¡§A Piece of the Action¡¨ [TOS]), that being the case how did Archer get it in 2151? Not possible!

Um... It's called creative license. Times change. It would be unbelievable, given current advances in technology, that Starfleet would not have subspace radio by the mid 22nd century. Why let the number of year in one line of dialog dictate what they can and can't do with a TV show? That's not thinkint outside the box.

TRANSPORTERS: Transporters didn¡¦t exist before 2168 (¡§Masterpiece Society¡¨ [TNG]) so how did NX-01 get them?

Again, creative license. Does the number "2168" matter that much?

PHSAERS: ¡§Phase modulated energy weapons¡¨ (¡§Silent Enemy¡¨ [ENT]) or PHASERS did not exist prior to 2200 (¡§A Matter of Time¡¨ [TNG] written by Rick Berman) so NX-01 couldn¡¦t have them, could they?

You're right, the NX-01 doesn't have phasers. They have phase pistols and phase cannons, the prelude to phasers.

STARFLEET: Starfleet was not established until 2161, as evidenced by the Starfleet Academy Insignia which states ¡§Starfleet Academy Ex Astris Scientia (Meaning, from the stars knowledge) San Francisco MMCLXI¡¨ (2161)

What episode was this established in? :)

KLINGONS: Klingons were not encountered until 2218, this encounter took place in deep space and caused a misunderstanding leading to decades of war (¡§First Contact¡¨ [TNG]).  AND THE FOREHEADS!!! Why would this mistake occur if the Klingons had been contacted before that time?

Answer: It would not happen, therefore the events in ¡§Broken Bow¡¨ [ENT] DO NOT fit in to Star Trek history at all!

Again, it's called creative license. Does the "2218" date mean that much? We never saw Klingon first contact nor related events, so what difference does it make if they change the year so long as it doesn't conflict with other Trek events? I'm rather glad they showed Klingon first contact in "Broken Bow". As for the forheads... the original Star Trek had a low budget. The Klingons were always ment to look as they did in the movies and spin-off series. DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations" showing the TOS Klingons was intended as humor and not to be taken serrious, thus Worf's line, "We do not discuss it with outsiders."

FERENGI: The Ferengi were NEVER encountered before the 24th century and were never seen by humans prior to the events shown in ¡§The Last Outpost¡¨ [TNG]. If they had contacted humans in any way before that time as they supposedly did in ¡§Acquisition¡¨ [ENT] then knowing them as we now do it is a CERTAINTY that they would have at least tried to open trade negotiations with us. Just as they did with the very dangerous Dominion (¡§Rules of Acquisition¡¨ [DS9]).

Not neccessarilly. The Ferengi were out and about decades before first contact in "The Last Outpost". Picard even fought them with his ship, the Stargazer, as we learned in "The Battle". So, Archer encounterring the Ferengi in an isolated incident without learning about their species nor their name, and that remaining and isolated incident, could easilly be "lost" in the databases.

Also why would Archer and his inept crew allow a group of potentially dangerous criminals to go on their merry way?

What should they do? Cancel the mission and take them back to Earth?

It was an EXCUSE to stop them from learning more about the Ferengi, an excuse that doesn¡¦t work and shows a lazy and unprofessional writing style

It was not an excuse. The Ferengi are funny. DS9 fans loved them. It was a way to show the TNG-style Ferengi with whips, to link have a link to TNG & DS9, and to just have some plain old fun. Get over it, good grief.

VISUAL COMMUNICATION: Visual communication (and probably view screens for that matter) was not available to Earth Starships during the Romulan War of 2156-2160 (¡§Balance of Terror¡¨ [TOS]) so how did Archer get such a thing before that time?

We have viewscreens now. It'd be retarded for the NX-01, a ship 150 years into the future, to not have view screens. :)

PHOTON TORPEDOS: NX-01 now has photonic (or photon) torpedos how is this possible in 2152 when Spock once pointed out that ¡§Only primitive atomic weapons¡¨ were available during the Romulan conflict of 2156-2160?

Again, based on our current advancements in technology, it's far more likely we'd have fought a war with aliens by the mid-22nd century with some forum of advanced weapons, like on Trek, instead of nuclear missles. With that said, I've no problem with the "photonic torpedoes", I just wish they'd have picked a more creative name.

PLASMA WEAPONS: In the episode ¡§Broken Bow¡¨ [ENT] the Klingon is shot by a farmer wielding a plasma rifle. However according to Janeway there were no regenerative shields and no plasma weapons in Kirks time (the 23rd century) (¡§Flashback¡¨ [VGR]) so how could there be plasma rifles in the 22nd century?

Do you expect them to remember every line of dialog from every single episode? :)

LYING VULCANS: Vulcans are unable to lie (¡§The Enterprise Incident¡¨ [TOS] and ¡§Data¡¦s Day¡¨[TNG]) yet in ¡§Enterprise¡¨ they¡¦re lying deceitful pigs!

Um... no. Vulcans had a police not to lie, they were quite capable of lieing. Spock lied, Tuvok lied, so I'm sure a number of other Vulcans have lied.

VULCANS WITH FEELINGS: We all know that Vulcans show no feelings yet in ¡§Shadows of P¡¦Jem¡¨ [ENT] the Vulcans show anger at the loss of their outpost and the Vulcan Captain was obviously angry at being misled by Archer THAT DOESN¡¦FIT THEIR PROFILE!

This is an earlier century, and furthermore, knowing how sensitive the situation is between the Vulcans and Andorrians, I'm not surprised that the Vulcans showed a bit of anger at the lost of the outpost.

Worse still in the episode ¡§The Seventh¡¨ [ENT] T¡¦Pol¡¦s feelings of guilt almost killed her, Now that¡¦s going too far!

Why? Not all Vulcans are the same. T'Pol would be borring if she were a stereotypical Vulcan. T'Pol has always been more emotional than your average Vulcan. For Vulcans, this is bad. For the audience, this is good as it creates good story telling.

VULCAN SECRETS: If Kirk and his crew knew nothing of ¡§Pon Farr¡¨ (which was the case) as it was a closely guarded secret, then how is it that everyone knows about it in ¡§Enterprise¡¨?

They don't. Only Phlox and Reed know about it, both of whom are keeping it a secret at T'Pol's request.

THE PRIME DIRECTIVE: Granted, the prime directive doesn¡¦t actually exist in ¡§Enterprise¡¨ however they are continually concerned about the impact they might have on other less advanced cultures, that being the case the events in ¡§A Piece of the Action¡¨ [TOS] could never have occurred. BUT THEY DID OCCUR!

Huh?

LACKING HUMAN TECHNOLOGY: The humans in ¡§Enterprise¡¨ are some of the least technologically advanced people around, well behind the Vulcans, Andorians, Klingons and even the Ferengi.

How are meant to believe that these people will become the leaders of a great federation of planets within ten years? That¡¦s not only implausable it¡¦s LUICROUS!

See: Season 3

All of the facts I¡¦ve given here are ATTRIBUTABLE, LOGICAL AND IRREFUTABLE, it is literally impossible to put forward any workable argument against them without making excuses or fabrications.

Really? I didn't have any problems doing so.

Face facts, you may enjoy Enterprise but it does not fit in to Star Trek history in any way, therefore it IS NOT a Star Trek series and has no right to use the name!

Face facts, I enjoy Enterprise, which fits into Star Trek "history" with a little creative license so the franchise can go on and not come to a stagnent end. It is Star Trek and deserves the name.

Tim, the leader of saveenterprise.com said in the chat:

forget Cannon and the timeline..

 

So, us Trekkies who follow the timeline hate Enterprise!!! I am not saying you shouldn't like Enterprise, but it DOES contradict the timeline, even the FOUNDER AND LEADER OF SAVEENTERPRISE.COM AGREES!!!

Click for Spoiler:

 

 

 

Note to mod: Everyone is entitled an opinion... please don't delete this...

I'm not going to accept that ENT isn't cannon based on your say so nor Tim's say so. Show me proof before telling me it isn't cannon, please.

I  was thinking of something while debating the odd ending to this season. Is it possible that instead of the Earth Archer and crew know. And barring that it is not a Time Travel incident like im suspecting.

 

Could the earth be in fact one of the Alter-Earths that TOS Enterprise stumbled onto every other week or so?

 

A highly unlikely probability. But *shrug* who knows :(

It would have to be another dimension where Earth has not yet progressed to the 22nd century instead of a parrallel Earth, otherwise they'd realise they're in the wrong star system due to their star maps. I'm still convinced that it's a fourth faction in the TCW. :(

The original idea was for the registry number to include the type of ship and number of ship, but the movies and TNG established them as being production numbers, the newer the ship, the higher the production number.

With that said, NX-01 is the first Starfleet ship designed for deep space missions.

The original idea for the registry number was to serve as a serial number.

Example: U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701

NCC = United Earth Vessel

17 = Type of Ship

01 = Prototype

However, the movies and TNG established registry numbers as being production numbers. The newer the ship, the higher the number.

With that said, the NX-01 is the first of the Starfleet ships as we know them.

I vote: 10

Here's my post from my own ENT forum:

Click for Spoiler:

Oh, wow! This was such a great episode! :o The fight between Archer and the Xindi Commander was astounding, and boy oh boy did Archer get the crap beat out of him! I was quite happy to see that Hoshi survived the last two episodes, despite her extreme torture. As for the whole Sphere Builer part of the episode, I thought the Enterprise was gonna bite the dust destroying that sphere, go Trip! :(  Due to the internet rumors, I started to think that Archer actually died in the explossion, but with seven minutes left, I just assumed that we'd get a happy ending at Earth, learning that Daniels had saved Archer through one of his spiffy time portals. Now the NX-01 is stuck in the past durring WWII, with Archer in a Nazi Interment Camp. What the heck? :( Oh, and I almost forgot! What the heck was that alien in a Nazi uniform? Did anyone else think he looked like a Reman? :(

Afterwhcih i will go to hell <_<

Watching TV and movies and reading books of a Satanic or Demonic nature will not send you to hell, but it's not good either from a Christian perspective.

The Xendi arc ..is now a new time string ..if Xendi join the Federation....I don't remember seeing any large Tanks on the "Constitution-Enterprise or any of the others....A, B, C, D, E, F?, G?, H? I? ----J must have had "fish tanks" or they In a different time-line all to gether.....pity Kirk, Picard, Janeway...Never happened!

Enterprise is in the same timeline as the previous Trek shows. If Xindi were serving on the Enterprise-J in the 26th century, as Daniels informed Archer, they're probably Xindi-Primates or Xindi-Aborreals.

To watch either Buffy or Angel you need to suspend belief and accept the characters within the entirely fictional world within which they operate.  This was not a "realistic" view of the world

I guess that's true.  Still, I didn't like the implication of a Godless world.

 

On the contrary, throughout Buffy and Angel there were many implications of dozens of gods!

I believe there's only one God.

How do you know he doesn't have a father, mother, brothers, sisters etc, how do you know he's not just some higher power kid playing with his Earth? Anyone who can believe there is a god, must atleast accept the possibility of other gods.

Well, the Holy Bible doesn't imply that, thus there's no reason to believe so.

BTW totally agree with the SG1 thing :lol:

SG-1 was mentioned in this thread? B) <_<

BTW BTW I think Tina ment that Sarah Michelle Gellar and David Boreanaz would make an appearance not there characters.

Ah, now see, that makes more sense. B)

Enterprise would be much better with more continuity...

Enterprise continuity is stable.

All those Christians could kiss my Butt

I'll pass.

If  you don't agree with it CHANGE THE CHANNEL

I did every time it was on, except for the series finale. :P

on the other hand I am a big Angel/Buffy fan. I love it. Did you all that Angel and Spike MIGHT be on Charmed 9another WB show)

I thought Charmed was it's own "universe", so how can they do a crossover?

Going to watch that then

I'm sure you will.

CJLP, why on Earth would you watch this show?  (I mean given your strong religious opinions)

I'm a sucker for endings. I just wanted to see how it ended.  Buffy started out good, but went down hill with all the evil stuff, homosexuallity, witches, and so forth.  However, I was still interrested in how it ended.  The Buffy finale was decent, so I thought I'd tune in for the Angel finale.

 

the evil stuff was what it was all about!

I guess thas true.

Homosexuality & witches was Willows character development!

I don't like Willow. :lol:

To watch either Buffy or Angel you need to suspend belief and accept the characters within the entirely fictional world within which they operate.  This was not a "realistic" view of the world

I guess that's true.  Still, I didn't like the implication of a Godless world. B)

 

On the contrary, throughout Buffy and Angel there were many implications of dozens of gods!

I believe there's only one God. :)

You also shouldn't try to judge an entire series from the final episode because you missed some things.

Well, I was judging the show on the dark feel mostly, and the absolute lack of morals in the main characters.

 

They tried to save the planet!

Thas not good enough.

The whole point of their last battle was to fight the hold the "bad guys" had on the planet and Angel did sacrifice - he sacrificed what he wanted most - the possibility of having his humanity restored - in order to free the world from dominion by the group of the Black Thorn.

Well, I understood what they were fighting for, but what I didn't understand was why they would go fight something they knew they couldn't win.  You'd think they'd pick their battles better than that, ya know?  As for having a soul...  how can a creature of pure evil have a soul? :P

 

A human without a soul is ment to be a creature of pure evil, a Vampire is just a souless creature, now he's a creature with a soul, duh!

A Human without a soul would be a vegtable to me. As far as I'm concerned, Vampires are not redeemable as they are nothing more than demons possessing dead humans.

As for the non-ending ending - there are rumors of the occasional Angel movie in the future.

Well, if they go that rought, then I can forgive the ending.  Still, you'd think that something advertised as a series finale would actually end. :o I felt so insulted when the WB did that "Thanks for watching!" tribute. I was thinking, "Yeah, thanks for waisting my hour with a story that didn't go anywhere."

It was intertaining, that's enough.

For you maybe, but if I'm going to watch a TV's series finale, I expect an ending, otherwise I don't bother.

As for redeeming value - the show had wit although the humor was often subtle.

I guess I had to be a regular viewer to get the humor.

 

I've more thoughts on this show, but I understand that people like it, so I'll just say this leave you guys with one more comment.

Exactly the true fans get it -_-

Kind'a like how you gotta watch SG-1 to understand why O'Niell's so darn sarcastic all the time.

When it comes to cancellation, I know how you all feel.  There was a show I used to watch called ROSWELL which ran two years on the WB and a third year on UPN before getting cancelled.  I became a regular viewer at the start of season 2 and a fan at the start of season 3.  Then they cancelled the show after the third season aired 18 episodes, fortunately the producers knew it was probably their last season, so they tried to wrap up the show in the last 4 episodes, which I feel they did nicely.  Fortunately for us Roswell fans, we got an ending, although rushed. B)

It ain't Roswell get over it!!!

I know, I was just explaining that I'd had a good show get cancelled on me to show that I understand you guys frustration.

I don't feel cheated..I'm just happy that they are continuing their trek..Having 4 less episodes next season is such a minor point. It's more important that they get good enough ratings to proceed to seasons 5, 6 and 7..

Well, I used to watch Roswell when it was on. UPN had orderred a 3rd season after saving the show from the WB cancellation. They orderred 13 episodes, then a full season of 22 episodes. The show got cancelled, but before this happened, the producers knew that this cancellation would probably be their last, so they decided to wrap up the show. This is when UPN cut the episode order down to 18, cheating the audience out of three episodes and squishing the 2-hour finale into a 1-hour. Everytime ENT get's it's episode order cut, this is what it reminds me of. What should we expect for season 5? 18 episodes?

They've always done great with 26 episodes a season. I don't like being cheated out of four episodes.

AE, can you PM me his site?

What channel was it on?

I was wonderring. Now that UPN has decided to go for Enterprise season four, but with 22 episodes, should we campaign for four more episodes so that we can have a full fourth season of 26 episodes?

If your math abilities are off the chart, then take advantage of that. Have you considerred becoming a scientist?

Enterprise is just getting too militaristic for my tastes.  I enjoyed it for a story arc and understand that Starfleet is a kind of military, but it's nothing like what we have today.  Infact, I'm wonderring if it's a new kind of organization that doesn't exist yet, perhaps some kind of organization hybrid?  Anywho, that's not the point of this discussion.  My point is that there's too much fighting and not enough explorration and scientific missions.  Yes, conflict is needed for a plot, but Trek has done it years with a ship of explorration and with scientific missions.  I sincerely hope we can go back to the goold old days and perhaps even have the really out there episodes like "Vox Sola".  What do you all think?  Should Enterprise return to the mission of seasons 1 and 2, but with story arcs, or embark on "mini-missions" instead of explorration?

I guess you have not seen much of TOS. Starfleet is basically millitary. They use our present day Naval ranks, correct. Also, things are not all that peaceful in Archer's time. Kirk got into some nasty battles with the Klingons and Romulans also. I guess you are used to TNG, which was more about exploration. Most of TNG takes place during treaties. As you get into DS9, there is the war with the Dominian. I guess if there is no real war going on, Starfleet can devote more time to exploration.

Well, I've only seen a handful of TOS. Most of my Trek viewing comes from TNG, DS9, VOY, & ENT. DS9 showed war, VOY was isolated, and ENT is a prequal. With that said, I always believed Trek should be about explorrating when there wasn't a war going on. I'm not saying that war is bad. I'm not saying the Xindi-arc is bad. I'm just saying that I want classic sci-fi and episodes dealing with their mission of explorration.

Star Trek Planet Cereal

"Eat a planet today!"

They have hands, fingers, and thumbs. Look more closely.

ok u want a list of continuity problems.

(1) an Akira class starship 200 years b4 it's time

What Akira-class ship? :( Enterprise is NX-class.

(2) photon torpedos-mark1- very earily in trek history

They don't have photon torpedoes, they have photonic torpedoes. Similar name and casing, different technology.

(3) Worf stated in a next genereration epsode- phasors didn't exist until 2200!

They don't have phasers. They have phase pistols, the prelude to phasers.

(4) tarra nova- Constogoa left earth couple years after first contact- built by Earth with no help from Vulcans.-1st colony to be colonixed outside starsystem.  What happened to the Vaga colony, or Alph Centari

I've no idea what this is about.

(5) Utopia Plantia fleet yard astablished b4 Mars colonized

How is this a problem?

(6)Transporters-in 2151

How is this a problem?

(7) Romulan cloaking technology- in 2151 ( see TOS-"Balance of Terror") Romulan's  cloaking technology a big surprise in 2245!

No. It was that Romulans had a "new" cloaking technology in 2245. In TOS, we thought it was new. Now with ENT, it's possible that Starfleet learned to detect Romulan cloaks through the Sulliban cell ship, so the Romulans had to invent a whole new cloaking technology a century later.

(8)First contact with klingon Empire in 2151- Capt. Picard clearly stated that first contact was in 2215 and was a disaster-resulting in years of conflict.

It's a number. What difference does it make if they change a number? :(

(9)first contact with Borg-frozen since "First Contact"-no historical regarding them or Archer's contact with them in Database-til Picard's time....not likely.

Wrong. It's likely they were classified so only top Starfleet officers new about them. Picard probably got access to this database after he made first contact with the Borg. Otherwise, why would such sensitive, classified data be in the Enterprise computer?

(10) first contact with Frengii-again no record til Picard's time

They made first contact with short, ugly aliens with big ears. They didn't know it was the Ferengi, and when was it stated when first contact with the Ferengi actually happened?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..

good changes:

Archer's great-grandfather fought in Eugenic War.......at first I looked at this as a bad continuity error....as Eugenic war 1992-1996....but if you consider Khan was frozen for hundreds of years b4 Kirk "woke" him up....maybe the date khan gave(1996)...was a mistake.  Slight Brain Damage/Degeneration of mental factaties could account for the mistake...and if you move the date to 2042-2046- it fits!

What's wrong with the Eugenics War happening in the 1990's? Star Trek is ficition, it doesn't have to conform to our timeline as our future unfolds, other wise we might as well erase TOS when the 23th century comes arround. :wub: