What We Leave Behind

[Mike 5]

I know, I know..I've tried to resist posting this topic but I can't! I promise this is the last time I bring up this episode..

 

 

Did it ruin the whole series?

 

It did for me. Why did the last episode have to be this sad? The Dominion war was over and what happens? A lot of the crew split up..So sad for me..I can't help it..It's not how I want to remember DS9..And now everytime I watch another episode All I can think about is 'What You Leave Behind'...! I will be OK with it if they all come back for a movie or something of the like..But what are the chances of that?.Slim and none..

 

OK friends..I invite your comments..I know not many of you will agree with me..

[VaBeachGuy 12]

I don't think it ruined the series. I thought it was a good ending and left things open nicely for the possibility of a movie. I know the chances are slim but it leaves the door open for it. The way everyone leaves is a logical conclusion to the war. They have just been successful in a long hard war so opportunities are now open to them. O'Brien gets to go teach at the academy, Worf goes to be the Ambassador for the Federation and Sisko is with the Prophets learning what he needs to do for his next "mission". Maybe it's because I was in the military that it seems natural to me but that's normal for military life. You are at a duty station for a period of time then you are reassigned to a new place. So I don't look at the ending as sad, I look at it as realistic.

[gul_nodrog 2]

I wouldn't go so far as to say it ruined the series, but I found it somewhat abrupt.

 

1.) They wasted a lot of time at the beginning of Season 7 on Ezri ... all right, all ready, she's Dax, whoopee. There's a war on, you nimrods, can we get back to it please? They had to make such a rapid push at the end of the season to resolve the whole war thing that it seemed very rushed and ended very abruptly for me.

 

2.) I still get ticked off every time I watch that episode and there are no flashbacks of Jadzia! How stupid ... not even Worf remembers his own wedding, what I would call a real pivotal point in his tenure there on the station. No, he waves at silly old Ezri as he's leaving and no mention of his dead wife at all.

 

These are the things I can't get past when I watch this episode. The waste of the first half of Season 7 and ignoring a major character who gave 6 years to the series.

[gul_nodrog 2]

Worf goes to be the Ambassador for the Federation

Wouldn't it have been nice to have seen Worf remain the ambassador to the Klingon empire rather than demoted back to serving on the Enterprise in Nemesis? Worf could still have been in that movie as some sort of diplomat, much like Spock in ST:VI.

 

I don't know about you, but I feel like that franchise likes to pretend that DS9 never happened. I guess DS9 is "what you leave behind" if your producing a ST movie.

[Mike 5]

I don't know about you, but I feel like that franchise likes to pretend that DS9 never happened.  I guess DS9 is "what you leave behind" if your producing a ST movie.

My feelings exactly.That's why I think there will never be a DS9 movie..Until recently I hadn't seen any DS9..I was expectly a very bad series considering how the rest of Trek Nation treats DS9..I now have every episode on DVD. I was very surprised at how good it is. Of course aside from the last episode.. :biggrin:

[Jack_Bauer 1]

The only thing I didn't like about this episode is that there seemed to be a lot of clips. I mean the battle scene was mostly clips from Sacrifice of Angels and Tears of the Prophets. Then you have all the Bashir-O'Brien clips and Worf clips etc. Don't get me wrong I think it was a good finale but they used a lot of clips. Other than that it was cool, Winn dies, Dukat is the anti-emissary (very cool), Sisko completes his destiny and the Dominion War ends. I don't think there could be any other way to end DS9.

[Captain Ericks 0]

I didn't mind the fact that the crew separated so much. It was a litle depressing and all but the end of the war really messed up the finale for me. I would have liked to see something like in Band of Brothers, where the last episode was more less when the enemy was al ready beaten and all that was needed was a surrender. The Dominion falling back to Cardassia and the huge show down being set up at the last, just wasn't realistic for me.

[gul_nodrog 2]

Did it ruin the whole series?

 

Yes.

 

I just watched it again last night after completing all seven seasons since last March when we started buying the DVDs. I can't even describe to you how mad I still get over this episode.

 

You know what I think? I think the Behr and company were so depressed and disconsolate over the series ending that they couldn't get passed their own feelings and write something positive. They used this episode as some type of catharsis for what was happening behind the cameras to them personally and basically screwed the fans who'd stuck with DS9 in spite of years of the series airing on a frequency modulation that would stump a Borg. After everything I went through to keep up with the series (My mom had to tape the show for me weekly and mail it to me because it wasn't even on the air in my area midway through Season 6!!!) "What You Leave Behind" is the thanks I get.

 

We believe we are going to watch the run of the series annually now that we have it and we've decided that we will no longer watch the last episode in its entirety. I'm going to turn it off after Damar is killed and Garak screams, "For Cardassia!"

[Tr3kkie 0]

For my part, I can't say that it ruined the series, because they would have to do much greater rubbish to ruin such a great series.

 

I think the main issue for them was time. The whole 7th Season was about becoming integrated Ezri and ending the Series. Only 1 season for such a major task was definitely not enough. I wish that they would have run the series at least for one more season. That way they would have had more time to finish things better.

 

I just hope that they will continue the series, with a spin-off, mini-series, tv-film or a motion picture. No matter how long it takes

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Well, DS9 is a space station. TNG & VOY left us with that "their off to their next adventure" feeling. With DS9, since it's a space station and not a ship that can go off to new adventures, I thought it fitting for the crew to split up. I found it quite moving as people move on with their lives.

 

On the topic of a movie, I don't think it'd be too difficult. If Worf can show up on the Enterprise, then he can show up on DS9. As for O'Brien, I think he'd be borred silly at the Acadamy and come running back to DS9. With the war over, maybe Keiko can establish a full blown school on DS9? Obviously the story would center arround Sisko's return. That leaves us Odo, how would he come back?

 

I don't think it'd be far fetched to bring back Sisko and O'Brien, it's Worf and Odo who'd be difficult to write back into the story. If nothing else, we could promote recurring characters to fill in the jobs of Worf, Odo, and O'Brien.

[Tr3kkie 0]

I think it isn't really difficult to bring back Odo. In my opinion if he still loves Kira then it's definitely worth being separated from the great link for that. As a almost eternal being, he has plenty of time to be in the great link.

 

what do u guys think?

[gul_nodrog 2]

I think it isn't really difficult to bring back Odo. In my opinion if he still loves Kira then it's definitely worth being separated from the great link for that. As a almost eternal being, he has plenty of time to be in the great link.

 

what do u guys think?

Exactly! When Odo linked with that awful female shapeshifter at the end it took him about zero seconds to cure her, reform her and make her willing to stand trial for her war crimes. Why would he need to stay in the link indefinitely and leave Kira forever? That makes no sense from what we've seen of the great link. He fought so hard for Kira for 7 years and then all of sudden it's "game off!"

 

Those crazy "founders" ... I guess we're to believe that they need Odo forever to stop them from running amok again.

 

I'd like to see a movie where Odo returns to DS9 from the link, Weyoun 9 in tow. Also a really magical, mysterious and spectacular return for Sisko. Berman's interview was just a joke ... he said that they wanted to "tie up" all the loose ends. Yeah, that's what they did ... :huh:

[Mike 5]

Oh if it could only happen..! Sisko back home on DS9..Obrien returns and is bored at the Academy and Odo returns to be with Kira!!..Bashir and Ezri are already there.And of course all those wonderful minor characters are back too..Garak, Quark, Morn..And let's not forget that Rom is now Grand Nagus..If only they could get together for a DS9 movie or mini series...Ahh well..That's probably the only way I could get over the Final Episode of season 7..

 

I know that on a starship they can just sail into the distance exploring new adventures..On a station it's hard to do that but they could have come up with a better ending in my opinion..

[Captain_Enor 0]

I have to agree to all of it. I hated to see DS9 end like it did. If it were up to me, I would have rewritten most of the episode.

[HRH The KING 0]

I liked the ending of DS9. It was a pointless decision to put Ezri Dax into the show. To be honest, whenever an episode focused on her, I just skipped it and waited for the next 'War' episode.

 

It was pointless adding a new character like her with only a season left, when all her screentime could have been devoted to the other regular or recurring characters.

 

The other thing that bothered me is Worf. He went from being an Ambassador in DS9 to playing his regular role as the 'unfunny comic relief buffoon' in the absolute pile of **** that was Nemesis.

 

What's with that? Were they that desperate to get him into the movie? Was it worth it?

Edited February 4, 2004 by William Stryker

[fredbroca 0]

I have not seen that ep in a long time as they don't play DS9 around here but I know what you mean and the story can go on. They have already proved that with the books based after the last ep. I know they are not cannon the way they have continued the story would be very good for a miniseires or a set of movies.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I liked the ending of DS9. It was a pointless decision to put Ezri Dax into the show. To be honest, whenever an episode focused on her, I just skipped it and waited for the next 'War' episode.

Why was it pointless to put Ezri in the show? Jadzia died, not Dax, so Dax needed a new host, walla - Ezri. Personally, I thought she was an interresting character, but hey, most people don't seen to like last-season characters. Doggett and Reyes aren't too popular with X-Files fans nor is Jesse popular with Roswell fans.

 

It was pointless adding a new character like her with only a season left, when all her screentime could have been devoted to the other regular or recurring characters.

I don't think it was pointless, I thought it made for very unique stories. My only problem with Season 7 was that Jake had nothing to do.

 

The other thing that bothered me is Worf. He went from being an Ambassador in DS9 to playing his regular role as the 'unfunny comic relief buffoon' in the absolute pile of **** that was Nemesis.

Worf, a diplomat? When I saw "What You Leave Behind", I knew that wouldn't last and was pleased to see he had finally returned to the Enterprise as a member of the crew. As for being a "comic relief buffoon", he had two comic scenes. How does this make him a comic-relief-buffoon?

 

What's with that? Were they that desperate to get him into the movie? Was it worth it?

NEMESIS is a TNG movie. Worf was a regular for all seven seasons of TNG. They weren't desperate, they just wanted all 7 characters to return for their final adventure. Yes, it was worth it.

[HRH The KING 0]

Why was it pointless to put Ezri in the show? Jadzia died, not Dax, so Dax needed a new host.

 

Dax may have needed a new Host but we didn't have to see her or him. IMO, when Jadzia died, that should have been the end of our interest in Dax. There were other characters to give screentime to that were more important than Ezri.

 

 

nor is Jesse popular with Roswell fans.

 

I actually liked him. I would prefered Isobel is end up with me, but alas....

 

 

I don't think it was pointless, I thought it made for very unique stories. My only problem with Season 7 was that Jake had nothing to do.

 

I agree with you on the Jake point. They should not have placed Ezri on the show and devoted more time to Jake.

 

 

As for being a "comic relief buffoon", he had two comic scenes. How does this make him a comic-relief-buffoon?

 

Because he was there for comic relief and he was a buffoon. Simple as that.

 

 

NEMESIS is a TNG movie.

 

A terrible one.

 

 

Worf was a regular for all seven seasons of TNG.

 

So?

 

 

they just wanted all 7 characters to return for their final adventure.

 

For what? What was it supposed to be? a High School reunion??? The character moved and grew when it was moved to DS9 and they HAD to bring it back for the last abysmal movie?

 

 

Yes, it was worth it.

 

I'm going to have to disagree!!!

 

 

Edited February 5, 2004 by William Stryker

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

nor is Jesse popular with Roswell fans.

 

I actually liked him. I would prefered Isobel is end up with me, but alas....

You watched ROSWELL?!

 

As for being a "comic relief buffoon", he had two comic scenes. How does this make him a comic-relief-buffoon?

 

Because he was there for comic relief and he was a buffoon. Simple as that.

Oh? Besides arguing with Troi about appearing naked at here wedding and freaked when B4's arm grabs his leg, I thought Worf was treated as a serious Klingon warrior in this movie. What makes you think he was there for comic relief? At least everyone in the movie has 2 comic scenes, why is Worf any different?

 

they just wanted all 7 characters to return for their final adventure.

 

For what? What was it supposed to be? a High School reunion??? The character moved and grew when it was moved to DS9 and they HAD to bring it back for the last abysmal movie?

Actually, in the special features of the DVD, that's exactly how Michael Dorn "Worf" refers to the movie - a high school reunion. My point is, it's a TNG movie. Just becuase Worf is also a main character on DS9 doesn't mean he can't be in any more TNG movies. To say, "Oh, Worf's at DS9, I guess he can't be in any more TNG movies." would be lame. Are you one of those DS9 fans who thinks all other Trek is inferrior? (I'm serrious, not poking fun. :) I appologize in advance if that last sentence came out wrong.)

[gul_nodrog 2]

Are you one of those DS9 fans who thinks all other Trek is inferrior? :) (I'm serrious, not poking fun. I appologize in advance if that last sentence came out wrong.)

 

Stryker may not be one of those DS9 fans with a superiority complex, but I believe I have become one. I'll probably not go see another Trek movie unless it incorporates DS9 as the main plot. I just don't care about anything else. There, I admit it ... even Captain Picard has lost my interest! Yikes.

 

Upon reflection (final episode notwithstanding), I find DS9 superior to all other Trek (aside from the original cast movies). After having purchased and watched all 7 seasons of the show and then flipping to TNN to watch TNG episodes, or UPN to catch Voyager, the difference in acting, storylines and special effects is just jarring. Despite the fact that I think Behr was smoking crack during the latter half of season 7, my hat is off to him for putting such a wonderful show on the air.

 

Boy, we never agree, do we, Captin Jean-Luc Picard? :)

 

Ah, well, such is the order of things!

[HRH The KING 0]

You watched ROSWELL?!

 

Yes, I did.

 

 

Oh? Besides arguing with Troi about appearing naked at here wedding and freaked when B4's arm grabs his leg, I thought Worf was treated as a serious Klingon warrior in this movie. What makes you think he was there for comic relief? At least everyone in the movie has 2 comic scenes, why is Worf any different?

 

Worf's humour has always I feel, been more subtle, ie "The-Guy-Who-Is-Really-Hard-Showing-He-Has-A-Sense-Of-Humour". Not the buffoonery he has become in the movies.

 

 

Actually, in the special features of the DVD, that's exactly how Michael

Dorn "Worf" refers to the movie - a high school reunion.

 

I hated this movie so much, I'm not going to waste time looking at the special features on a DVD to a terrible movie.

 

 

My point is, it's a TNG movie. Just becuase Worf is also a main character on DS9 doesn't mean he can't be in any more TNG movies.

 

I think that they should have drawn a line under the character when DS9 ended. I also don't think it matters anymore since I don't believe they'll be anymore TNG movies.

 

 

To say, "Oh, Worf's at DS9, I guess he can't be in any more TNG movies." would be lame.

 

I disagree.

 

 

Are you one of those DS9 fans who thinks all other Trek is inferrior?

 

Yes.

 

 

Stryker may not be one of those DS9 fans with a superiority complex, but I believe I have become one.

 

Hey!!!, I have a DS9 superiority complex. It was excellent.

 

 

I find DS9 superior to all other Trek.

 

Me too.

 

 

Despite the fact that I think Behr was smoking crack during the latter half of season 7, my hat is off to him for putting such a wonderful show on the air.

 

If I had a hat, I'd take it off for him too. LIGHT ONE UP FOR IRA!!!!

 

 

:)

Edited February 5, 2004 by William Stryker

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

You watched ROSWELL?!

 

Yes, I did.

What did you think of the show, hmm?

 

Oh? Besides arguing with Troi about appearing naked at here wedding and freaked when B4's arm grabs his leg, I thought Worf was treated as a serious Klingon warrior in this movie. What makes you think he was there for comic relief? At least everyone in the movie has 2 comic scenes, why is Worf any different?

 

Worf's humour has always I feel, been more subtle, ie "The-Guy-Who-Is-Really-Hard-Showing-He-Has-A-Sense-Of-Humour". Not the buffoonery he has become in the movies.

Well, Worf was portrayed in the movies as he was in TNG, with character growth from DS9. I thought they got him right and the only time I thought he was used for comic reliefe was in INSURRECTION, a light hearted movie.

 

Actually, in the special features of the DVD, that's exactly how Michael

Dorn "Worf" refers to the movie - a high school reunion.

 

I hated this movie so much, I'm not going to waste time looking at the special features on a DVD to a terrible movie.

A shame, they're very informative.

 

My point is, it's a TNG movie. Just becuase Worf is also a main character on DS9 doesn't mean he can't be in any more TNG movies.

 

I think that they should have drawn a line under the character when DS9 ended. I also don't think it matters anymore since I don't believe they'll be anymore TNG movies.

What would you have preferred they do with Worf in NEMESIS?

 

Are you one of those DS9 fans who thinks all other Trek is inferrior?

 

Yes.

Personally, I thought it was an awesome sci-fi show, but it felt weak somehow in comparison to the other shows. :)

 

Despite the fact that I think Behr was smoking crack during the latter half of season 7, my hat is off to him for putting such a wonderful show on the air.

 

If I had a hat, I'd take it off for him too. LIGHT ONE UP FOR IRA!!!!

Strange, I thought Season 7 was the best of DS9.

[HRH The KING 0]

What did you think of the show, hmm?

 

I loved it.

 

 

Well, Worf was portrayed in the movies as he was in TNG, with character growth from DS9. I thought they got him right and the only time I thought he was used for comic reliefe was in INSURRECTION, a light hearted movie.

 

Why him? Why did he have to be the comic relief?

 

 

A shame, they're very informative.

 

I'm sure they are.

 

 

What would you have preferred they do with Worf in NEMESIS?

 

After watching Nemesis, iId rather they hadn't made the movie at all.

 

 

Personally, I thought it was an awesome sci-fi show, but it felt weak somehow in comparison to the other shows.

 

I agree with the first part of your post, and disagree with the second.

 

 

Strange, I thought Season 7 was the best of DS9.

 

I loved all of DS9.

Edited February 5, 2004 by William Stryker

[xenexian 2]

No, it was far from ruining the series. In fact, It more more like life itself. Think graduation (high school or college), leaving for a new job, or relocating away from home or familiar surroundings. All of these events are both sad and exilirating at the same time. Life is never supposed to stay the same and what happened during that last episode underscored that fact that along with the good memories and happiness, sadness and sometimes regret, go hand in hand. We all have good memories in our lives and they will always be there. But when it's time to move on, you can't help feeling sad or upset that things don't stay as they are and that we can all go on in a sort of stasis. It's still one of my favorite episodes. Kai Wynn gets what she deserves, Gul Dukat is imprisoned with the Pah Wraiths, the Dominion war ends with the good guys winning and the Cardassians are left with a world not too unlike 1945 Europe. It may not have been totally satisfying in the sense of happily ever after endings but if you're looking for a more realistic vision of life moving on, you couldn't have found a better episode.

[Mike 5]

No, it was far from ruining the series.  In fact, It more more like life itself.   Think graduation (high school or college), leaving for a new job, or relocating away from home or familiar surroundings.  All of these events are both sad and exilirating at the same time. 

Some time has gone by and I've learned to accept this as DS9's final episode.. I started this topic after I saw this episode for the very first time. I mean I had just finished watching all 7 seasons and I was at the very final episode of DS9..My anticipation was very high for this episode..I think I was a little disappointed because I had grown so attached to all of the characters..I still feel that they deserved a better final episode.. But I do agree with some of what you are saying..Life goes on and there was bound to be changes..Some characters leaving, some staying, some dying....I guess it is how life really is..But it is sad for me..Oh well..I watch these DS9 DVDs of mine alot..But I just don't have the desire to see this last episode again..The final scene really got to me..Jake and Kira looking out the of that window..How was Jake going to get by without his Dad?..Will he ruin his life like he did in the episode "The Visitor"?..Will that time line become a reality?..I still have lots of questions..How is Kira doing without Odo? Will Odo ever return?..I know these questions will not be answered and I have accepted this as the final episode of DS9...It is still a fantastic series..I watch it alot..And to answer my own question: No, it did not ruin the whole series..It is still sad to me though..But that's life..

Edited February 10, 2004 by spacetigger