headborg

Another question..........could there possibly be a Mirror Q? Or does the Q we know have the ability to travel between the universes?

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Wow...that was just what i was Thinking/Asking myself.....I would guess Q would have to be the same...no mirror Q, and yes...a Q with the ability to banish people/starships to the mirror universe....think of the story possibilites there!

LOL!!!!Ok, this resembles the Hamilton Vs Jefferson Debates over Loose vs Strict Interpretation of the Constitution.

(1) TCW, doesn't violate canon in itself( other things throughout season 1,2,3,4, did but by 4th season..hey, it was a done deal. TPTB wrapped up the TCW with no net change in the time line(canon) It was like taking a glass of water adding the ice cube, marking the level, then waiting for the cube to melt......no net change.

(2)Xindi, is a different matter. If they had been eliminated at the end of the arc...it wouldn't have been a violation of canon...but, having them be the "black sheep" of the Federation Family all these centures and later re-appearing to make B&B another million dollars at sometime in Federation future...is IMO a violation of canon..because their absence can't be just explained later!

(1) no species can attack another planet...kill millions of it's citizens..then say..Oh, sorry..we were misguided...we'll just walk away now..and never do it again..in years to come We can be Friends. Especially when they are a more technologically advanced species....There would have been REPARATIONS TO PAY, and star fleet would have been keeping a keen eye on them throughout the April,Pike,Kirk,Hariman, etc eras.

The Expanse was eliminated returning space to normal( i.e. cancelling it out..so there's no net effect there(canon fixed) The Sphere Builder's arent a problem to Canon either (they went back to their own dimension and can come back to threaten the Federation later..no problem there) It's just those darn Xindi..where were they hiding all those years...it's a canon problem(especially since they got admitted into the Federation(at some point)...and not just skulking about the alpha/bata quads.

(I swear I'm not disagreeing with or correcting anyone, but if this sub-discussion is going to continue, it's important to note that 7of9 did indeed talk about the events of First Contact in Voyager.)

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I don't have all of Voy on DVD, and the amount of time to blow the dust off the aging stack of VHS and play through is too much work. So please: which ep and what time frame. Can you provide a transcript?

I Love the song, I personally like the Russell Watson version best both the extended and (cut for the intro) version...They wrote the opening themes of the series to fit with it, I guess, else they really did a great job of finding the perfect song to fit the theme of Vulcans having been holding  Mankind back...and now Humans just stepping out on their own for the first time.  I didn't care for the jazzed up version...They could have introduced different contemp songs from time to time with different intro video footage...i think that would have been different and interesting.

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Here's the way I see the Lyrics fitting with the theme of Enterprise, this was posted a couple years ago...

 

Click For Spoiler

I added links to the songs in the poll so you can compare them.

 

Like most people that like the Old version I too like it better for the same basic reasons. It's way too upbeat for such a desperate mission. I think they got it backwards. The new version fits the theme of the first 2 seasons better as an up beat adventure kind of theme but the older version fits this more somber atmosphere of going out to hunt down the Xindi weapon.

 

As for the song in and of itself, I think the song fits the series very well. The lyrics fit the circumstances.

 

It's Been a Long Road Getting from There to Here.

 

Humanity has been through the eugenics wars, the third world war then the Vulcans held us back for 100 years with our Warp program but look where we are now... It's been a long road to get from there to here.

 

It's Been A Long Time, but my time is finally near When I will see my dream come alive at last, I will touch the sky.

 

Humanity has been striving for thousands of years to expand it's horizons, it's knowledge. Our time is nearing when our horizon will become infinite our knowledge will grow a hundred fold. humanity's dream for centuries has been to touch the sky, we will now seek new skies to touch.

 

 

And They're not gonna hold me down no more, no they're not going to change my mind. Cause I've Got Faith of the Heart, I'm going where my heart will take me. I've Got Faith to believe I can do anything. I've got strength of the Soul and no one's gonna bend or break me. I can reach any star. I've Got Faith, I've got Faith, Faith Of The Heart.

 

The Vulcans won't hold us back any longer. We are ready to take our place in the galaxy, no matter what argument they give us. No matter how they try to play on our fears they won't deter us because we have something they don't. Something they can't understand. Something they dismiss as a weakness in humanity. We have "Faith Of The Heart" and by that it means that we allow our emotions and our instincts to guide us. We have the ability to see beyond logic, and that is a strength in our very soul. Because of that faith we have confidence that we can reach any star and no one will bend us, no one will break us.

 

That's what the song says to me. That's what I heard when I watched Broken Bow for the first time, and when I heard it I just said to myself "Wow, that's cool. That song fits so very well." It's a song, to me about humanities struggles. It's a song of triumph over those struggles, and now 3 years into it's mission humanity is on the brink of becoming a leader in the quadrant.

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A Most Outstanding Post..both then and now.. very well written. So tell me, (1) Do you think they picked out the song and it inspired them to write the "early history" of Star Trek. or (2) Or one day, someone came in and said something like..."hey, I heard this really great song that will fit our Story really well.

LoL...which came first the Chicken or the Egg?

Disavowing it works for me.  I loathed "These Are The Voyages."     I think it's the most sorry excuse for a series finale they could have come up with.  Total laziness.  Total contempt.   What good does it do to say TATV was the franchise finale, not ENT's finale, when TATV undid every good thing Manny accomplished this season?  That's just spin.

 

It ruined everything.   B)  :(   I wasted four seasons liking this show.   Every letter I wrote to save it was a waste and I regret writing every single one of them.  I regret I ever started watching.  The bashers were right.  Sooner or later, Berman and Braga will put their stamp on it, they said, and they were right.  Archer's place in history was already marked by "In a Mirror Darkly" by being in the Defiant's history computer.   I don't care if it gives fodder for the decanonise ENT crowd. Berman and Braga wrote one episode and cast a pall over everything.   They even made Will and Deanna into contemptuous, condescending jerks.

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I didn't come to the decision to start this thread lighty, and i didn't start it to "stir up more "hate and discontent"", but it just seems to be the best thing for me to do right now, (1) the episode is set 6years in the future after Terra Prime..and as VGB pointed out it's just a holodeck recreation of "historical facts"...so i feel it could be overlooked "shunned"...for example: after the original Battlestar Galactica...they tried to make a comeback--Galactica1980<<<most Galactica fans disavow it. Highlander 2<<<is another sci-fi example- some of us just try to pretend it didn't happen. Decanonizing all of Enterprise couldn't/wouldn't happen and would be a real shame....especially after the body of season 4 was really great! As for TATV being the franchise finale<<that's the first I've heard that suggested....No Way..to be a Franchise finale it should have included footage and a storyline that included ALL of the STAR TREK series! And since it didn't..that would be grounds for lynching B&B. If you liked the four seasons...I'd hardly call it a waste of time just because of one show.

I'm among the Bashers that did my share of Bashing, but I take heart in the fact that my bashing didn't cause the demise of the show, In fact, if I had a "Nelsons" rating box at home...it would have recorded atleast 1 more faithful fan that tuned in to watch....right up to the end. It's all the Trek fans that Tuned out and stopped watching, and the millions of non-trek fans that B&B's "experimental" ideals about making ST appeal to a wider audience (i.e. More T's&A, action/violence, cursing)which failed<<that's what caused the death.

It was too much for some parents(no longer totally appropriate for children) but not enough T&A, sex and violence to attract the mainstream. Maybe the next Star Trek will be a "reality" show.

I Love the song, I personally like the Russell Watson version best both the extended and (cut for the intro) version...They wrote the opening themes of the series to fit with it, I guess, else they really did a great job of finding the perfect song to fit the theme of Vulcans having been holding Mankind back...and now Humans just stepping out on their own for the first time. I didn't care for the jazzed up version...They could have introduced different contemp songs from time to time with different intro video footage...i think that would have been different and interesting.

 

Yes but I ain't going to revisit that old argument again; either you believe things things can happen and not be spoken of later or you don't. I happen to believe it's plausible the TCW and the Xindi war weren't mentioned later. How many times were the events of First Contact (as shown in the movie) mentioned on DS9 or VOY? I believe it was 0 times.

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Yes but,...didn't First Contact hit the theater after DS9 and Voyager? And it started out in the most contempary(present time) of Star Trek, and most information on the actual events of Mankind's First Contact...had previously been unmentioned in TOS, TNG, or Voy and DS9...so it was fair game and didn't alter Star Trek Canon..just fill in the blanks..and Picard & Company did try to follow the Prime Directive and not "alter" the time-line. Since the whole Enterprise Series was set "in the past" a prequel every facet of the show ran the risk of possibly altering something in the established canon. I was hoping it could fill in many "blanks" like Manny Coto succeeded in doing..i.e. Klingon Ridges ..and what happened to them during TOS and why Worf said 'it was embarrassing and wasn't spoken of. And occassionall show us something new.....but spending whole seasons on a tangent like the xindi and then establishing that they are part of the Federation in the future was just too much...now someone needs to explain their absence during TOS, TNG, DS9, Voy era. It would have been much better to introduce them....then let the Sphere Builders wipe them from History at the end of the Arc.

I really liked these two eps, and see no point really to picking them apart, I gave credit just for the hard work of re-creating TOS bridge and hallways and quarters..i really loved the tie-in effort.  But yes , it you really analyze it you find lots of problems. In Mirror, Mirror (TOS) the vulcans were just as evil as the humans...so when those vulcans made first contact with Cochrane..they would have scanned the humans and detected the mob with firearms and would have probaly stunned them all first. And the humans still wouldn't have stood a chance...( unless we consider that the ISS Picard and Company was there too and helped Cochrane overthrough the vulcans!)

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I don't think there could have been a Mirror Enterprise-E. The Terran Empire had fallen thanks to Mirror Spock before the events of TNG.

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Very True...yes i forgot about that...but there would have to be a Mirror Borg! and maybe they are the Good guys..there would have to be some kind of order to the Mirror universe during the TNG era and First Contact.....so it all just unravals like a can of worms. And Did we actually see Mirror Spock chance things...or were we just left with the impression that he would try to change things? perhaps he failed?

First I want to say, this is the only gripe I can really find with all of season 4(since I'm ignoring the existence of TATV)

IMO, Klingons would never build escape pods into the design of any WarShip...it would just be dis-honorable IMO. I understand the writers needed a way to get Dr Soong off the ship...but they could have worked alittle harder.

#1. Season 4 ...Thank You Manny Coto

#2. Season 1....I started watching with high expectations and slowly was disappointed.

#3 Season 2....Now is the winter of my discontent

# 4 Season 3.... (additional response added to split topic)

I would have set the finale  15-20 yrs in the future.....NX-01 would be a orbiting museum, and the charactors would all be coming aboard for a reunion..in "aged" makeup, there would be lots of "flashback" footage..and they could "talk" about the good ole days, and the Earth/Romulan war, atleast one human/vulcan child running around, and Phlox could bring a couple wives with him, and we learn that Reed ended up married to one of them, lol...maybe have an emergency excuse to fire up the old girl and take it for a spin..the old crew...complete with tourist onboard.

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Not to burst your bubble, Headborg, but, that's sounds a bit like the begining of "Battlestar Galactica"

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Hey, You noticed that...glad to see you watch other sci-fi than just startrek....still I think it would have been a lot better than a

I really liked these two eps, and see no point really to picking them apart, I gave credit just for the hard work of re-creating TOS bridge and hallways and quarters..i really loved the tie-in effort. But yes , it you really analyze it you find lots of problems. In Mirror, Mirror (TOS) the vulcans were just as evil as the humans...so when those vulcans made first contact with Cochrane..they would have scanned the humans and detected the mob with firearms and would have probaly stunned them all first. And the humans still wouldn't have stood a chance...( unless we consider that the ISS Picard and Company was there too and helped Cochrane overthrough the vulcans!)

I liked the episode, I disliked that it was the final episode but that had nothing to do with the episode itself.

 

There is so much more of the "Enterprise" story left untold but when I think back to the 4 seasons as a whole I am really pleased with the direction it took. I can't think of a single episode that I didn't like. There were episodes that I liked less then others but all in all I was very pleased with every single episode, including the last one.

 

For those that didn't like it you can hold on to the fact that the final episode of Enterprise was a Holodeck recreation of what their (TNG's) "history books" said happened. A "historical" holodeck program has a good chance of having a lot of errors in it. After all it was programed by a person and isn't an infallible recording of historical fact. It is a person's (or group of people) interpretation of a series of facts gathered from historical documents.

 

Therefore TPTB could always come back and "re-write" history and base it on the premise that the holodeck program had errors and was simply a fantasy representation of history rather then a factual representation of history.

 

But if things stay the way they are and the history of the NX-01 stays as it is right now I am satisfied. Disappointed because it ended when it did but satisfied.

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Well that is Food For Thought!...yes, it's totally logical and maybe Coto could write it all away as holographic errors...somebody tampered with historic records...I love it...now if only Spike TV, or Sci-Fi will just pick it up....(but only if TPTB=Manny Coto) and those other guys(B& can be left along the road somewhere...maybe sent into the Expanse, anatomically inverted and splayed open while still alive! I thought it was just an absolute slap in the face...to have Riker and Troy hosting the finale, and the crew of Enterprise just interviewed as holo-ography,

Headborg! Can you please use spoilers? The fourth season of Enterprise only aired about a month and a half ago over here. For those of us living in Europe who have just read your post now unwantingly know that Elizabeth dies. I don't want to know anything about an episode before I see it, please consider those who are watching the series in countries were it aired later than the U.S.

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Sorry Matt, I often forget about the rest of the world, except my own back yard...(darn inconsiderate American I am) I'll try to remember next time, by the way, FYI all the 4th season Enterprise is avail on the internet for download FOR FREE...there's really no reason to have to wait to see it months later!

I would have set the finale 15-20 yrs in the future.....NX-01 would be a orbiting museum, and the charactors would all be coming aboard for a reunion..in "aged" makeup, there would be lots of "flashback" footage..and they could "talk" about the good ole days, and the Earth/Romulan war, atleast one human/vulcan child running around, and Phlox could bring a couple wives with him, and we learn that Reed ended up married to one of them, lol...maybe have an emergency excuse to fire up the old girl and take it for a spin..the old crew...complete with tourist onboard.

I would like to start a petition to Disavow the existence of this "final" episode of Enterprise, we should all just shun it...I'm hoping the producers of the DVD collection will be kind enough to place it on a separete disk ..so i can just junk it....IT DID NOT HAPPEN!!!! The final scene of

Better late than never...I suppose...didn't get a chance to finish it before the end of the series...maybe i should have left it unfinished as a symbolic jesture ...maybe Coto can resurrect the series. Anyway, it's rough.

Enterprise Farewell

I voted No..i think it was a difficult but important decision to make...it preserves the integrity of the Data charactor, and the illusion that he was an android..Data told the boy in Insurrection that he would always be the same specifications..but Spiner is only human...all the make-up in the world can't keep up that illusion. It was a great that he got a hero's end...We Love Data...he got to go out in a blaze of glory. And now Spiner is free to pursue other acting roles..being a 'one hit wonder' is every actor's worst nightmare. He's a very talented actor. I loved him in Independance Day.. and look forward to viewing him in future endeavors.

 

 

I don't have any actual video to contribute but if I did the following would be my contributions...

 

A few seconds of the Dance of the Butterfly Women from Broken Bow (episode1.) Such a TOS looking scene imo which surely would match just about any song you may attach...  :P

 

Next, not sure if it would fit your videos theme but I like the scene of Hoshi screaming at the sight of corpses hanging from the ceiling in Flight or Fight, (episode 2) that was something new to Trek I've always remembered fondly and look forward to revisiting on the DVD...

 

And finally from me, for a dash of humor; I recommend using Porthos running off to go where no dog on Trek had ever gone before: to a tree down on the planet in Strange New World (episode 3)

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Thanks AE, let's see...the Butterfly Women? I can't quiet place that..but I'll hava a look see, 

#2. i don't thank so< the theme is going to be happy/happy/smiles and happy memories stuff...B & B isn't gonna give us a good farewell ending(I'm gonna disavow it even happened) I'd like to have some hugs and farewells at the AirLock, etc...you know ...good bye...good luck stuff,  instead I'll have to have a pleasant scrap book type video... I'm looking for stuff like: Archer & Dad playing on the Beach, the scene where they all exit the shuttle on Strange New World, head turns, smiles,  baseball caps(a must have)etc.

#3. yea...that would be good..I think I remember the close up shots..of him running along..I think 3 will work, and maybe where T'pol finally pets him.

I've been going thru my available footage for making a video farewell for enterprise and have found my stock...sadly lacking season 1,2,3...and most of what I have is of...Trip & T'pol...and I really can't decide what the best to use anyway.. So I've decided to ask for help. The video will be 4 minutes long( I won't give away what the song is) but I want to use 1 minute from each season....so if you would like to contribute/ vote on which scenes make up the best 1 minute of Enterprise from each season..I'd sure like to hear your comments....and use your clips....I'll be happy to credit you at the end...so it's kinda like a contest to pick out the best moments from each season. Thinks. Comments, Questions welcome too.

Despite WMM crashing a bunch (which I can't forgive), it gets the job done.  I also actually like their PhotoStories program, which could be useful with WMM to make some cool things.  Now, if they'd just combine the two programs into one, it wouldn't be so crap-tastic!

 

Still wish I had a total Avid system, but hey, don't we all?

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Well, you're a testiment to what can be done with very little, never in my mind would I have believed it. So much been accommished with so little. It was the titles that really threw me...I've played a lot with WMM...and couldn't(at least I thought I hadn't) found any Fonts that resembled STAR TREK fonts...and couldn't get the Underline to just underline one line...and you can't change colors within the same animation. The croping of the stills was very good thinking, makes the aspect ratio consistent(very clean frame space)...I loved the sepia tone effect you used on some of the astronaut footage. But how did you crop the stills and use the ease in/ease out..seems to me like that would take multiple crops...very clean piece of work.

WMM has never crashed on me...it's been great for quick jobs, but i find it just doesn't have enough bells and whissles or (balls) for me/ Problem I'm having with Premiere....it's power hungry, Ram hungry....hangs up during preview(can't tell if the glitches are in the work..or just my computer) and the interface requires a book to figure out...I spent i whole evening just poking around to find the TitleDrawer.

I'm a big fan of Premier when not around an Avid, but that was actually all Windows Movie Maker -- the bane of my existence...lol.  Oh, and the pictures were cropped and fixed in photoshop...

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NO WAY!!! YOU GOT TO BE B.S.ing me now! Windows Movie Maker? The Titles....how did you do the titles...my WMM won't let me title like that?????that all looks way too good for a cheesy software like wmm....and I'm over here pulling my hair out....trying to learn to navigate Premier and AfterEffects... used photoshop to crop the stills(scratches head) ...well it all looks great.

:P :P Beautiful...most excellent work i've seen here so far, amazing what you can do with a little T&T&T (time, tools, talent)<<speaking of tools.....liquid Edition? or Adobe Primiere Pro? I liked the first one better, Scott's Voice Over would have been great..except the writers messed things up.....when they wrote in Travis and his Parents ....."Yea, I've been here before...I grew up on a cargo freighter.....'

Well, now that they have several episodes under their belts - I can say this show is tedious.  I don't know what they hope to accomplish with the the Cylon and God talk but it is getting very old.

 

And things are moving too slowly - I don't want all special effects and action - but a little action wouldn't be such a bad thing.  All this talk, talk, talk, it's like a high school literature assignment trying to discern all the symbolism.

 

Anyone still enjoying it?

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Well, I'm enjoying the show....but I agree...this "Cylon/ God /religious story-arc is very....something....the writers need to put it to bed or....as a judge would say...is this going anywhere...cause it needs to get to the point real fast...

The second problem I'm having with it is....they are drawing from/ making it Mirror actual Earth/American cultural motifs too closely...like the funeral..and the folding the flag into a triangle, the 21 gun salute, the pilot briefing room...cso...it's all streight from actual SOP from our military...what's the odds of the 12 colonies evolving/developing the exact formal protocols as we (Earth-lost colonie)...