Archer's Great Grandfather N Eugenics War?

[headborg 1]

Archer stated in the "Hatchery" that his Great-Grandfather fought in the Eugenics War-Eugenics War was established as ended by 1996-"Space Seed"(TOS).

 

The year is 2154, if we assume Archer is 40 years old, that would put his birthdate around 2114? and if we assume his father was around the age of 30 years old when Archer was born-that would mean Archer's father was born around 2084-(making it hard to work with Zefram Cochrane-as he would already be 54 years old when Archer's father is born!). If we assume again that Archer's grandfather was again around 30ish when Archer's father was born-that yields a conjectural date of 2054-for his Grandfather's birthdate-and one more generation back would give his Great Grandfather's birthdate as 2024-too late for the Eugenics War!. Can anyone work out a mathematical formula, that makes practical sence and allows his great-grandfather to fight in a war which ended n 1996? Or did B&B decide to move the Eugenics War to a later date in the StarTrek chronology?

Edited February 29, 2004 by headborg

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Great-great grandfather or great grandfather. Maybe Archer just left out a word. Is it really that big a deal? I was too busy paying attention to the story. Besides, they tied Archer to the Eugenics war, that was plenty for me!

Edited February 29, 2004 by Captain Jean-Luc Picard

[Ace 0]

Since the original Eugenics War date became one of the biggest nitpicks in the Trek universe, TPTB did indeed move the date in First Contact. If you listen to Data right after the sphere is destroyed, he gives the new timeline (I forget the exact year). This has also been explained by some as an in-the-show timeline alteration caused by the Borg themselves (one of several theories). Hope this helps.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Since the original Eugenics War date became one of the biggest nitpicks in the Trek universe, TPTB did indeed move the date in First Contact. If you listen to Data right after the sphere is destroyed, he gives the new timeline (I forget the exact year). This has also been explained by some as an in-the-show timeline alteration caused by the Borg themselves (one of several theories). Hope this helps. :lol:

Data gave the date for World War III, not the Eugenics War.

[Ace 0]

Where's a "D'oh" smilie when you need one. :lol:

 

Thanks JP. They still moved the Eugenics War date, but I forgot to when. We're absolutely positive that WW3 and TEW aren't the same thing, right?

[Jack_Bauer 1]

Eugenics Wars: 1992-1996

 

WWIII: 2053-some time prior to 2063

 

 

I think have that date right for WWIII, can anyone confrim it?

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Where's a "D'oh" smilie when you need one. :lol:

 

  Thanks JP. They still moved the Eugenics War date, but I forgot to when. We're absolutely positive that WW3 and TEW aren't the same thing, right?

WWIII is in the mid 21st century, the Eugenics War is in the 1990's. :)

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

WWIII: 2053-some time prior to 2063

It ended in 2053, as they say in the movie.

[Jer8m8 0]

As I understand it, the timeline now considers the Eugenics War synonymous for WW3. That fits in with the time...Kinda like how American Civil War=War of Southern Independence

[MichaelJCO 0]

It can be argued that WW2 was part 2 of WW1 or that WW1 was part 1 of WW2 -so I think that based on some of the evidence here the same can apply to the Eugenics Wars and WW3. Both Space Seed and Greg Cox's books tell us that Khan and the eugenic supermen were created by a cabal of scientists to "improve" humanity. Both indicate that these supermen were primarily involved in and controlled 3rd world nations-40 of them according to Space Seed. So isnt it possible that the Eugenics War in the 1990's were part 1 of WW3? The alliance (Great Khanate) of these nations in Africa,the Middle East and Asia confronting the rest of the world and trying to conquer the populace of "normals" ( From the novelization of the Wrath of Khan). The war would have been primarily conventional,as the supermen wanted a population to control and a planet they could live on afterwards- so nukes arent used extensively but perhaps in some cases. A coalition of Western nations opposes the Great Khanate( from the Book Debtors Planet)-it may have been under UN auspices or maybe it started with the European Union and eventually the US ( Archers Great -Grandfather in North Africa) ,Russia and other countries joined if they were attacked or when it became obvious that Khan would not be happy with just the 3rd world. The TNG book Debtors Planet,which Cox pays homage to by including Ralph Offenhouse in his books,indicates a public Eugenics War with the Great Khanate invading Australia and the US aircraft carrier USS Enterprise being destroyed in the Battle of the Sea of Japan-the turning point of the war. Eventually the nations controlled by the supermen are defeated and the free world wins. But what does the world look like from 1996-2053? The coutries in Asia and Africa that were controlled by the eugenic supermen would have been a mixed bag,but many would have been deeply influenced by the supermen ideology of superiority and conquering the world to accomplish this. The novel Federation did a great job of making the Colonel Green ( Hitler ) and the Optimum Movement ( Nazis) the result of the Eugenics Wars. An arrogant group of men,who like the Supermen,think they know best and try to conquer the world which leads to part 2 of WW3-probably some conventional wars then a nuclear holocaust.This of course was surplanted by Star Trek First Contact which told us that WW3 involved the ECON-Eastern Coalition of Nations. Perfect ! I'snt it possible that this ECON is a rump group of nations that were part of the old Khanate in the 1990's? They leave the New UN ( which the US took a huge role in founding after addressing its huge social problems in the 2020's) sometime after 2036. The Econ comes into conflict with the New UN and that percipitates a nuclear holcaust circa 2053,that kills 600 million and also involves the US and apparently ( according to First Contact Novelization) destroys at least 2 American cities we never hear about in Star Trek - NY and DC. So after all that rambling just to repeat- The Eugenics Wars and WW3 could be directly linked- just depends on how you look at it- the Eugenics Wars as part 1 of WW3 or WW3 as part 2 of the Eugenics Wars. Either way everything we have in canon and novelizations indicates that both events happened-but are distinct and involved different players and events. Making them the exact same war in the 21st century would drive nuts like me completley crazy !!!

[WEAREBORG4102 0]

I think it's just another berman and Braga miscalculation

[Jer8m8 0]

What I'm trying to say is that by combining the two (and ignoring Spock's date) they are able to "fix" the timeline, i.e. our future could still be startrek