Is "Star Trek" stale?

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I'm going to exclude the movies for this theory.

 

Star Trek was a ground breaking show of the 60's, planned to run five years. Sadly, NBC slashed the budget in season 3, moved it arround in various time slots, then cancelled it, airing the last filmed episode several months later. From a non-fan perspective, a person would think it was a hoaky show that couldn't gain an audience. However, once syndicated, it was discovered just how successful the show is. Instead of a second 5-year-mission in the form of Star Trek: Phase II, we got the 6 TOS movies.

 

18 years after TOS was cancelled, Trek returned to TV in the form of Star Trek: The Next Generation with both old and new blood, taking Trek to the next level!

 

As a companion show to TNG for 2 years, DS9 comes out with a totally new setting - a space station. However, the station carried 3 ships called "runabouts" that allows the crew to go anywhere they want. Along with DS9's 3 runabouts, is the U.S.S. Defiant, added at the start of season 3. This was also arround the time the whole Dominion arc began that spanned the rest of the series. DS9 started out as "what the heck is this?" and became an extremely popular sci-fi show. It didn't have the success TNG had, but in comparrison to sci-fi shows, DS9 faired well.

 

Then, in 1995 we have the premiere of Star Trek: Voyager. The problem with Trek began durring VOY's 4th season and has continued into ENT.

 

Here's how I see it for each series:

 

TOS - Original

TNG - TOS 2.0 :blink:

DS9 - New setting, new cast dynamics, new stories, new everthing.

VOY - Lost in Space - Star Trek style

ENT - Starfleet's first mission.

 

Roddenberry did TOS & TNG's first two seasons. Ira Steven Behr was in charge of DS9 for the most part. However, Berman has produced most of TNG, all of VOY, and now ENT. I think that it's not that Trek has gone bad like rotten milk, but rather stale.

 

I know my post kind'a went everywhere, but that's just how my mind works. So, what do you think? Do you think Trek is stale? I say yes, it's not bad, but feels stale. I don't think they need a "break". What I do think is they should have let VOY end before developing ENT instead of trying to do VOY and develop ENT at the same time. I also think it's time for Berman to move on and let someone like Braga take over.

 

What are your thoughts everyone?

[trekzone 0]

I feel that ENT just needs to boast classic Trek. That is good old fashioned current issue stuff. The Xindi are great, but they lack a pizazz....woopy doo - Enterprise is out to save humanity with the odd story here and there, it needs some infusion....some pizazz. Know what i mean?

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Um... How can a "mission to save Humanity" be woopty-doo? Personally, I love ENT, but when I talk to casual viewers, it gives me the feeling that the franchise is stale. I think what we need is for Berman to sit back and only Executive Produce and let new blood do their work, while taking a 2-3 year break between any future shows.

[trekzone 0]

its been done before - in every sci-fi....its getting very very old.......espec. with 9/11 there have been alot more episodes/movies about the end of the world.

 

personal view /\

professional view \/

 

i think it needs good writers not new executives.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

ENT has good writers, "Harbinger" proves this! As for "the Earth is at stake" plots, they may be old, but so's "go back to Earth of the past" stories. As long as it's done creatively and with a new and fresh perspective, I'm all for it.

[TransporterMalfunction 1]

If I had to pick one of the Star Trek shows to be classified as "stale" then I think the most likely candidate would be Voyager rather than Enterprise. IMO Enterprise has given the franchise a lift and is finding new ways to tell stories.

[Klingonmike 0]

I see nothing stale in Star Trek at all. Enterprise is just as good and as exciting as any other Star Trek series. I do believe Star Trek needs to take a break after Enterprise finishes its 7th season.

Star Trek needs to get the fans hungry again, right now there is so much Trek to feast on people are arguing over whether its white or dark meat.

After 2 or 3 years of no Trek the fans will be starving to bring back a Star Trek series.

[Stewey 0]

The writing on this show definately is stale.

 

Click for Spoiler:

The upcoming episode is mereley a re-write of an episode of Voyager called "one"

[Klingonmike 0]

The writing of the show continues to get better and better, as the last few episodes have proven.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named 2]

Star Trek has been in production, in some form, since 1987 - and that's not counting the movies. I do think it is time to give the franchise a break and pick it up in, say, 5 years?

Edited February 16, 2004 by lt_van_roy

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Well, when I mean stale, I'm speaking from the general audience point of view, not that of a fan. For a fan, it's been a wild ride! :lol: However, it seems the general audience has the, "Oh gosh, another movie, another series? Good grief." type reaction.

[WEAREBORG4102 0]

Well the bad thing is that ENT doen't develop the character traits of some good actors while really screwing around with Star Trek canon... There is no continuity with this series and TOS... Can you name one? trek was never about ratings so why now???? We did fine when we developed the characters, explored humanity, and space. Why not now? Can't we just get back to what Gene wanted us to do? Every show has a theme. TOs and TNG explored humanity to a point... Ent is hollow as it doesn't explore anything... The whole 3rd season is about revenge. What type of theme is that? The Whole season, It is aparent who we are dealing with the Xindi. It tells about ecverthing except where the weapon is. They are shrouded in mystery while bein revealed out in the open. That is a paradox in itself. TNG introduced the Borg at first naming them revealing little. they developed them very subtley finding destroyed colonies here and there. That came out great! But no we reveal everything about the Xindi and then find we have a mystery that's just stupid! I mean a sixth grade english teacher could come up with better character development than that. You don't see Travis Mayweather developed! Bu you see even the smallest charcter developed in TOS and TNG. Wesley he almost destroyed the ship! So are you going to do anything about a helmsman that's saving your butt all the time? Nothing! What about Hoshi Sato? No character development! They all seem to have no personalities!!!

Why change the good? I'd rather watch VOY!

[WEAREBORG4102 0]

ENT is a copy of TNG and VOY spliced together... It's bad! I mean the next episode is a big rip of "One" (VOY) where Seven of Nine is alone on a ship passing through a radioactive nebula who she can only go through... She's the only one who can wake them... She has hallucinations of aliens and crew members..... Wow we can see the resemblance already!!!!!! The Xindi are just a big rip off of Borg vs. VOY!!!!

We capture Degra.... Voyager gets seven of NINE!!!!! Can some one see the resemblence? Why????

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

star trek will never get cancelled because there is such a loyal following of "trekkies/trekkers", they wouldnt DARE cancel it.

[WEAREBORG4102 0]

that's not true. Berman and Braga are Paramount and UPN ladogs.... They just care about ratings.... Seeing that Jake 2.0 is cancelled, We might have to brace for cancellation....

[ddillard 2]

Myself I have never thought of Trek as stale in any way.

[Klingonmike 0]

Well the bad thing is that ENT doen't develop the character traits of some good actors while really screwing around with Star Trek canon... There is no continuity with this series and TOS... Can you name one? trek was never about ratings so why now???? We did fine when we developed the characters, explored humanity, and space. Why not now? Can't we just get back to what Gene wanted us to do? Every show has a theme. TOs and TNG explored humanity to a point... Ent is hollow as it doesn't explore anything... The whole 3rd season is about revenge. What type of theme is that? The Whole season, It is aparent who we are dealing with the Xindi. It tells about ecverthing except where the weapon is. They are shrouded in mystery while bein revealed out in the open. That is a paradox in itself. TNG introduced the Borg at first naming them revealing little. they developed them very subtley finding destroyed colonies here and there. That came out great! But no we reveal everything about the Xindi and then find we have a mystery that's just stupid! I mean a sixth grade english teacher could come up with better character development than that. You don't see Travis Mayweather developed! Bu you see even the smallest charcter developed in TOS and TNG. Wesley he almost destroyed the ship! So are you going to do anything about a helmsman that's saving your butt all the time? Nothing! What about Hoshi Sato? No character development! They all seem to have no personalities!!!

Why change the good? I'd rather watch VOY!

Enterprise is everything Gene Roddenberry wanted and I'm positive he would have been very proud of this show. They have not screwed with any of the Star Trek canon in my opinion. The characters are developing nicely and the reason they have put off exploring this season is because of the Bashers that complained the first two seasons that there was no action, now that there is action they complain the show should be about exploring.

The bashers will complain no matter what is done, but its just a waste of breath, the show will continue for 4 more seasons and I look forward to the bashers shutting up probaly around the start of season 7 since they will relize they failed in their useless mission.

[mj 7]

... Ent is hollow as it doesn't explore anything... The whole 3rd season is about revenge.

 

Enterprise has substance, and it has been exhibited throughout its three years of existence.

 

I think Trip best described what the third season is about when Commander Shran implied that he was seeking revenge for the loss of his sister. He said that he wanted to prevent the Xindi from finishing the job.

 

I agree that some characters, like one of my favorites, Travis, have not been well developed. I even think some have been developed in a questionable manner. But I will wait to see what comes of it before I make a final judgement.

 

I think Archer has been well-developed, evolving from a determined yet idealistic space explorer, to one whose eyes have been opened by the realities of and dangers of space. And he is every bit determined to stay out there...it's just that "being out there" is suddenly a far more difficult goal. It is his continued growth as the leader of this trek, and the implications for the future development of the Federation, that keeps me aching for the next installlment.

 

The Vulcans were partly right. Mankind had no clue as to the Pandora's box it opened by going out into space. But they were also wrong because mankind's being out in space is going to change everything. Archer is being forced to learn to be tough and yet has to hold on to his humanity. He is doing it in such a way that he is impacting the Vulcan's long time rivals the Andorians, and will eventually impact the Vulcans.

 

I think season three is about moving past survival of a terrible attack, on toward triumph, toward finding humanity's role in space, with wide open eyes understanding the risks and the costs.

[ddillard 2]

... Ent is hollow as it doesn't explore anything... The whole 3rd season is about revenge.

 

Enterprise has substance, and it has been exhibited throughout its three years of existence.

 

I think Trip best described what the third season is about when Commander Shran implied that he was seeking revenge for the loss of his sister. He said that he wanted to prevent the Xindi from finishing the job.

 

I agree that some characters, like one of my favorites, Travis, have not been well developed. I even think some have been developed in a questionable manner. But I will wait to see what comes of it before I make a final judgement.

 

I think Archer has been well-developed, evolving from a determined yet idealistic space explorer, to one whose eyes have been opened by the realities of and dangers of space. And he is every bit determined to stay out there...it's just that "being out there" is suddenly a far more difficult goal. It is his continued growth as the leader of this trek, and the implications for the future development of the Federation, that keeps me aching for the next installlment.

 

The Vulcans were partly right. Mankind had no clue as to the Pandora's box it opened by going out into space. But they were also wrong because mankind's being out in space is going to change everything. Archer is being forced to learn to be tough and yet has to hold on to his humanity. He is doing it in such a way that he is impacting the Vulcan's long time rivals the Andorians, and will eventually impact the Vulcans.

 

I think season three is about moving past survival of a terrible attack, on toward triumph, toward finding humanity's role in space, with wide open eyes understanding the risks and the costs.

Very well said. I also see the mission in the expanse as being an excellant way for humanity to make itself known as a force to be reconned with, not just a fledging society that is just venturing into space, and therefore making the formation of the Federation a more feasible consequence, as success in the expanse will undoubtley prove that they have earned their place among the stars and will gain the respect of both the Andorians and the Vulcans.

[mj 7]

And no, Star Trek is not stale. Not everything is perfect, but it is not stale.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Well the bad thing is that ENT doen't develop the character traits of some good actors while really screwing around with Star Trek canon...

The character seem developed to me and continuity is intact.

 

There is no continuity with this series and TOS...

Yes there is.

 

Can you name one?

I can name two: Andorrians and Romulan Birds of Prey

 

trek was never about ratings so why now????

Huh? All TV shows need to take into account ratings. It just so happens that TNG had no competition, so ratings weren't an issue.

 

We did fine when we developed the characters, explored humanity, and space.

ENT has done all of that.

 

Why not now?

ENT is explorring space.

 

Can't we just get back to what Gene wanted us to do?

Depicting a better future? ENT is doing that.

 

Every show has a theme.

You're right. TOS & TNG were "weekly space adventures", DS9 had the Cardassian and Dominion arcs, VOY's "theme" was going home, and ENT has shifted from "Starfleet's first mission" to stopping the Xindi from destroying Earth.

 

TOs and TNG explored humanity to a point... Ent is hollow as it doesn't explore anything...

What are you talking about? ENT was explorring space in seasons 1&2 and now explores the Delphic Expanse as they search for the Xindi weapon.

 

The whole 3rd season is about revenge. What type of theme is that?

Season 3 has nothing to do with revenge, it's about stopping the Xindi from destroying Earth with an uber-weapon. Stopping the enemy does not equal revenge.

 

The Whole season, It is aparent who we are dealing with the Xindi.

DS9's 6th & 7th seasons delt with the Dominion War. This is not the first show to have season-specific arcs. :lol:

 

It tells about ecverthing except where the weapon is. They are shrouded in mystery while bein revealed out in the open. That is a paradox in itself. TNG introduced the Borg at first naming them revealing little. they developed them very subtley finding destroyed colonies here and there. That came out great! But no we reveal everything about the Xindi and then find we have a mystery that's just stupid!

The Xindi arc was only planned to last one season, while the Borg were intended to be the main villians of TNG, but they ended up as VOY's main villians instead. Just becuase the Xindi are not developed like the Borg does not make them bad, it's called creativity and variety. Also, which mystery are you referring to? The spheres?

 

I mean a sixth grade english teacher could come up with better character development than that.

I'm sure she could, but would it be appealing to a TV audience?

 

You don't see Travis Mayweather developed!

Yes, it's annoying.

 

Bu you see even the smallest charcter developed in TOS and TNG.

Oh? Uhura, Chekov, and Sulu got very little character development in TOS.

 

Wesley he almost destroyed the ship!

Which episode?

 

So are you going to do anything about a helmsman that's saving your butt all the time?

Are you referring to Wesley or Travis?

 

What about Hoshi Sato? No character development!

Do you pay attention to the show?

 

They all seem to have no personalities!!!

Do you pay attention to the show?

 

Why change the good? I'd rather watch VOY!

Well, this isn't Star Trek: Voyager, it's Star Trek: Enterprise.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

that's not true. Berman and Braga are Paramount and UPN ladogs.... They just care about ratings.... Seeing that Jake 2.0 is cancelled, We might have to brace for cancellation....

Voyager and Buffy are the only two UPN dramas to date that have not been cancelled, so Jake 2.0 being cancelled means nothing in relation to ENT.

[Capt.Vash 0]

lets just finish this whole thing i mean how lon can you search for one super weapon???? kill the weapon end the series out with:

 

 

STAR TREK: The 29th Century!

 

see voyager section for more details

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

STAR TREK:  The 29th Century!

That would end Trek.

[Julie 0]

I think there are plenty of story lines out there, maybe it's not trek that is stale, but the writers. I mean, with MILLIONS of fans out there, many of whome have written fan fics, there has GOT to be enough GOOD stories out there to make an effective series. even a half baked idea, like a new series focusing on an alien race, would introduce a new element into Star Trek. or maybe exploring the Enterprise B's career. there is very little known about it. the opportunity is there for Trek to continue on for a LONG time.

[StarfleetMarine 0]

Is "Star Trek" stale?

 

Very little. I just like the characters, storyline and stuff like that.

[HRH The KING 0]

STAR TREK: The 29th Century!

 

I suggested two possible ideas on the ''Should Enterprise Be Cancelled'' thread a while back for new Trek projects. One of them was for a new show for Trek, but I suggested that a time period about 40 years after TNG would be preferable.

 

The 29th Century idea can be saved for later.

 

[StarfleetMarine 0]

29th century. That'd be interesting. Weird if they did make another series. But I want Enterprise to get at least to a fifth or even to a 7th season.

[TransporterMalfunction 1]

STAR TREK: The 29th Century!

 

I suggested two possible ideas on the ''Should Enterprise Be Cancelled'' thread a while back for new Trek projects. One of them was for a new show for Trek, but I suggested that a time period about 40 years after TNG would be preferable.

 

The 29th Century idea can be saved for later.

 

The franchise would be crippled if Enterprise was 'cancelled', hence any ideas for a future show would not be worth much as there would not be another series. If Star Trek (in whatever form) does not do well then why would a network want to commission another series?

[HRH The KING 0]

The franchise would be crippled if Enterprise was 'cancelled', hence any ideas for a future show would not be worth much as there would not be another series. If Star Trek (in whatever form) does not do well then why would a network want to commission another series?

 

Hold on, don't jump to conclusions.

 

But I never said Enterprise should be cancelled. I said that I just happened to have posted some ideas on that particular thread. I personally don't like ENT, but I don't think it should be cancelled at all. ENT should go to seven seasons.