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Captain Bolivar

How Would You Rate "Harbinger"?

What rating would you give "Harbinger" out of 10?   53 members have voted

  1. 1. What rating would you give "Harbinger" out of 10?

    • 10
      9
    • 9.5
      9
    • 9
      7
    • 8.5
      7
    • 8
      4
    • 7.5
      4
    • 7
      1
    • 6.5
      1
    • 6
      3
    • 5.5
      0
    • 5
      3
    • 4
      2
    • 3
      0
    • 2
      0
    • 1
      1
    • 0
      2

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83 posts in this topic

 

Oddly enough you seem to have done what it is that you hate about other sites by attacking someone with a different view. If you disagree with Stewey's opinion then that is your right (I too disagree with several of the conclusions that he came to), however it is not acceptable to compare someone with a different opinion to yours as a 'rabid member of the KKK asked to give a balanced opinion of a Morgan Freeman movie' and imply that they are not welcome here, which is not for you to decide.

Oddly, I take that to mean I'm not welcome and Stewey is.

 

Fine. The usual 'we welcome all views' actually means 'we protect bashers and lecture lovers of Enterprise'.

 

Just once it would be nice for people who like the show to get an even break.

 

I'll just lurk from now on.

 

Let the basher's paradise take over here as it has every other place. :wow:

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Folks, don't let Stewey do this to us. It is exactly what he wants. He hasn't had a constructive word to say about ENT in three years at TrekBBS. Not one. Unfortunately he probably followed a link here that I posted at TrekBBS when I saw posters over there who were distressed about the negativity. I recommended this BBS as a better place. The only reason he's here is to stir things up. He KNOWS--thanks to idiot me--that this is a positive board so he's come here to mess things up. Don't let him. It's my stupidity that resulted in his being here and I apologize. Trinneergirl, you stay. Don't let one poster ruin things for you.

 

Just let him speak his peace and ignore him. He has a right to his opinion. That doesn't mean it has to sway you in any way. Vent your anger at me. I'm responsible.

Edited by MoulinRouge

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OK, everyone just take a minute to cool off. Breathe in... breathe out... :wow:

 

Moulin - this little situation is not your fault in the slightest. People can find out about this place whenever they wanted just by looking around the net. The only difference would be the time they eventually show up. If Stwey's motives are what you say they are, it'll come out in time and the Mods'll have a chat with him.

 

Stewey - I disagree with you, but I respect your opinion. Everyone is welcome here. I do hope you take one thing from this discussion, however. In my short time here, I've noticed somewhat of an unwritten code of conduct in addition to the actual rules. That review you have at bbs seems to fit there, as I'm sure there are many likeminded individuals at that site. On the other hand, here, the words "in my opinion" are incredibly important. You can disagree with whatever you want, but it would be a great idea if, in your posts, you made sure your tone suggests that you aren't bashing, are only giving constructive criticism, and most importantly, are open to opposing viewpoints. Attitude is everything.

 

Trineergirl - don't go, please. You've been a good addition to the board so far. I respect you, so please don't take this the wrong way, but you've definitely had the more "strongly stated" view in this topic. Stewey merely posted a link to his opinion; that's not deserving of any personal attacks. All opinions are protected, whoever they come from or whatever side they're on. If you don't like his opinions, it's better to logically break them down and attempt to prove their innacurracy, or simply ignore them. I know you must be incredibly frustrated by certain "bashers" you've had experience with in the past, but try not to let the opinions of a single person on this board get you 'riled up'. Just think about all the dozens of people here who share your love of ENT. :assimilated:

 

The terms "bashers" and "gushers" seem a little to devisive for this board. Can't all of us Trek fans just get along? :blink:

 

Now, since I'm no mod,,, and it's 2 in the morning,,, you as always have the right to ignore every incomprehensible, unecessary, or misguided sentence I just typed. :hug:

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We have enough Enterprise fans here to withstand the negativity. Just look at the poll results, they speak for themselves. The vast majority of fans are in agreement, and the diverse opinions (even negative ones) just add to the content of the conversation.

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Well I gave it 6.5. I thought it was in many respects a wonderful episode - Malcolm getting all the honours. It was such a contrast to the last few weeks, the flitting between plotlines really added a pace that has been missing. I think this served to highlight how detrimental it is to devote too much time to one character over an extended period i.e. Archer.

 

For me it fell on its bottom though with the entirely ludicrous Trip / T'Pol relationship which I am not even going to dignify by further comment.

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Trinneergirl I want to make it clear that you are always most welcome on this board and at no point have I ever stated or felt otherwise.

 

As I'm sure many people who have read my posts will know, I am a great supporter of Enterprise and consider it to certainly be the best Trek since The Next Generation and given time possibly better, but I accept that there are always going to be people who don't share my love for the show and while I can disagree with them and argue points of contention I don't believe it is right to attack them personally for their viewpoint.

 

It is true that STARTREKFANS.NET 'welcomes all views' and as moderator of this board I will protect everyone's right to voice their opinion no matter what stance they take as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others by breaking the rules set out by this site:

 

Enterprise Forum Guidelines

 

If any of the rules are broken then I will always take action. However should anything ever slip through the net then I please ask all members to use the report button and I will address their concerns the moment I receive the e-mail. If we all follow the main principles then I firmly believe that this site will remain the friendly and welcoming place that it always has been.

 

Finally I would like to thank Ace as he has made some very valuable and well put comments that I stand by one hundred percent. Thank you.

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Oddly, I take that to mean I'm not welcome and Stewey is.

 

Fine.  The usual 'we welcome all views' actually means 'we protect bashers and lecture lovers of Enterprise'.

 

Just once it would be nice for people who like the show to get an even break.

 

I'll just lurk from now on.

 

Let the basher's paradise take over here as it has every other place. :rolleyes:

Please do not come to this conclusion. I have been in enough back and forth on this site to know that if you stay long enough you will have the delight of finding yourself in agreement with someone with whom you adamantly disagreed the week before (on a different topic of course). Or vice versa.

 

You might find that individuals with different worldviews have overlapping interests ( in addition to Star Trek).

 

This is a nice site on which to have a conversation, even the ocassionally contentious ones. The resaon is that most people here do not hold grudges ( or not for long) , and there is a conscious effort ot maintain a level of civility.

 

And as VBG said, most people on this site like Enterprise..even this episode. ( Not this episode for me though :rolleyes: .)

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Click for Spoiler:

I have a question. I missed the end of the alien's comment..twice. I could not discern his last word. He said something like, "When the Xindi have destroyed earth, then my people..." then I didn't get the rest of it. Now I did not tape this episode, because I already knew there was other stuff going on that I did not want to save. So I can't play it over and over again until I hear clearly what the alien said. So....can someone just tell me what was said?

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Click for Spoiler:

I have a question. I missed the end of the alien's comment..twice. I could not discern his last word. He said something like, "When the Xindi have destroyed earth, then my people..." then I didn't get the rest of it. Now I did not tape this episode, because I already knew there was other stuff going on that I did not want to save. So I can't play it over and over again until I hear clearly what the alien said. So....can someone just tell me what was said?

Click for Spoiler:

"When the Xindi destroy earth my people will prevail"

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I rated this a 4. I watched it again and still do not quite care for it.

Click for Spoiler:

I am willing to change my view later if some of these relationships are straightened out. Even though Malcolm has "made peace" with the MAACO's I am not sure I am convinced that I would have expected him to explode like he did...I have to think about it some more.

 

I did not like anything about the Trip/T'pol portion. I did not find the dialogue compelling, nor what followed. It seemed contrived , rushed ( in light of the abiguity of emotion --and initiated by the Vulcan who in previous episodes talked about their honored traditions?), and confused. In contrast, I now feel that when T'pol kissed Sim, it was both intriguing, and seemed "the logical thing to do."

 

In particular it seem to me the "resolution", with T'pol saying it was just experimentation with her, is a playboy's dream statement. After having sex with a beautiful intelligent woman, she seems to not require anything of him in the form of emotional committment. That is what the words coming out of her mouth sounded like to me.

 

Now I heard the rest of it...that the neurowhatever is to continue, so there is a lot more to come with these two. I can't wait. :rolleyes:

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<h4 style="cursor:hand" onClick="expandit(this)">Click for Spoiler:</h4>

<span style="display:none" style=&{head};>I have a question. I missed the end of the alien's comment..twice. I could not discern his last word. He said something like, "When the Xindi have destroyed earth, then my people..." then I didn't get the rest of it. Now I did not tape this episode, because I already knew there was other stuff going on that I did not want to save. So I can't play it over and over again until I hear clearly what the alien said. So....can someone just tell me what was said?</span>

Click for Spoiler:

"When the Xindi destroy earth my people will prevail"

Thank you!

 

The plot thickens!

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It was a great episode and I loved it. I gave it an 8.5 mostly cause I don't give much higher than that unless it is a truly exceptional episode that I could not move from the couch till it was over.

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Stewey, I read the negative comments you added urging cancellation to the "Save Enterprise" on-line petition. You were signature number three. You must have rushed over there at lightning speed. Classy.

Edited by MoulinRouge

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This episode was great, with lots of humor and plot. I gave it a 10. I think Harbinger was comparable to the DS9 Episode, "Looking For Par'Mach In All The Wrong Places."

 

:cool:

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Finally got to see this ep Monday. I missed it on Wednesday and didn't want to stay up Sunday night, so I recorded it.

 

This episode is rather a polarizing one to me. There are some things I absolutely despise, hate, and want to jump on, and there are some things I'm quite fond of.

 

Altogether I give it an average rating of three point five (rounded up to 4 for my vote).

Click for Spoiler:

I was pleasantly surprised that some things actually happened in this episode. It would have been easy for the writers to just show the tension increasing as the Enterprise approaches Azati Prime, but to introduce a whole new faction in the war is a nice concept.

But I'm getting ahead of myself (ooh, temporal disturbance, my head hurts) There seems to be three main story arcs happening in this ep. Capt Archer and the Alien, the "love" triangle, & the battle of wills between Malcolm and Hayes. Because they're neatly divided, I'll delve into each one separately. But first I'll state my nitpick of the episode.

First scene of the ep also happens to have my nitpick of the episode. Sudden appearance of female love interest for Trip! Now this wouldn't be jarring if there was some sort of explanation (like in Precious Cargo.) but to introduce the character to us by showing Trip massaging her feet makes Trip look a bit of a jerk. Especially if he just met her. "I know just the thing for your muscles, let me massage you in my quarters." :laugh: The fact that she didn't seriously injure him for making such a suggestion implies that he's known her for a bit, would have been nice if she'd appeared in a previous episode. At least Crewman Cutler had a few eps that established her presence on the Enterprise before she began her fling with Phlox (Hey! "fling with Phlox." that's fun to say!). Of course it would have been nice if we'd have had more MACOs this season anyway ... but that is my nitpick, such as it is, and I will leave off of it now.

 

Love Triangle

Can't say I enjoyed this much. I'm not really jiving with the direction they're taking T'pol, she really seems less likeable than before after this episode. Let me elaborate. It seems rather obvious that she's displaying emotion in this episode, whether she feels it or not. Her voice is certainly emotionally charged (I just know someone's going to make a "vocal analyst" crack) in her discussions with Doctor Phlox and Commander Cole and in her pre-bedtime discussion with Trip ("I'mnotjealous!"). Then there was the sort of pleasure she took in turning Trip's questions back onto him (and holding Sim over his head). This behavior raises a question when T'pol writes off their connection as a "sexual experimentation."

 

Was she lying?

 

The sad thing is that either answer makes her character look rather evil.

If the the answer is "no, it really was an experiment." the following are my conclusions.

 

NOTE: The following is based on the assumption that T'pol did not simultaneously experiment in "emotion" while conducting her other experiment.

 

 

1: T'pol's kiss with Sim was just a coldly calculated painkiller. Harmless in its own way, because the recipient was going to die, and might even be thought of as a kindness, even if it was insincere.

2: T'pol planned Trip's seduction far in advance. Possibly starting when the doctor first suggested the Neural pressure sessions. Her plan eventually incorporated the use of humanlike emotional displays (including pre-sexual banter).

 

Needless to say, this is a rather cruel way to go about it. It also seems rather unvulcanish. If a Vulcan, imho, wanted to experience sexuality, he or she would simply find a likely specimen and query whether such an advance would be welcomed (Vulcans don't seem to have a shyness for such things). Also, any logical Vulcan would consider that emotions are an integral part of human beings, and that sexuality, especially with a friendly relationship built up beforehand, carries with it a load of emotional baggage. It seems rather cruelminded for a Vulcan to knowingly inflict pain on a human. Perhaps T'pol was trying to prove that emotions are not linked to sexuality or that emotions are not an integral part of human beings. In any case, it was a very arrogant experiment in the first place, and considerably worse than I've come to expect from T'pol.

 

If it wasn't an experiment.

 

1: T'pol is lying, when there is no good reason for lying. Trip would probably be hurt less if they just broke off the relationship, such as it was.

2: T'pol is still acting rather unVulcanish. Instead of blubbering like a high schooler, it seems like she would simply ask Trip directly whether he liked her or not. Beating around the bush is a human trait.

 

In either case, T'pol is acting rather strangely.

Lastly, in regards to the love triangle, Trip acts like a jerk too. He flat out lied to Malcolm about his relationship with Commander Cole. "Kissing friends" do not come from America. And it is subverting the rules a bit, as I understand it, to fraternize with another officer (whether in the same service or not). T'pol is an exception because she is not an officer anymore (yes she's a science officer, but that's a skill, not a ranking), but Cole isn't.

 

 

Malcolm and Hayes

I didn't like Malcolm's story at first. Malcolm seemed to be acting too arrogant and unyielding. But I accepted his attitude after I recalled the episode opening conversation between Cole and Tucker. It's very true that when two people "cut from the same cloth" work in close quarters, the results are often explosive. Both seem equally guilty of disrespect. Hayes hit low by going to the Captain instead of to Reed. Reed got back by being unreasonable. I thought the fight choreography was good (was surprised Montgomery can move that fast). I loved the battle between Hayes and Malcolm. The whole scene with the Captain reprimanding them was classic. "You think we're dismissed?" HEE!

 

Capt. Archer and the Alien

Well, honestly, this story is more of a story thread. I really thought we had begun to wind to a close. But now a new entire faction is being revealed. So many questions. Why does earth need to be destroyed before this faction can take over? Are the Suliban involved (since they seem to be alternately trying to destroy the human race and trying to save it)? I love that we're being kept guessing.

Anybody else think that, for a moment, the alien had decapitated Phlox?

 

Altogether I give the love triangle a 1, because the actions of the characters struck me as juvenile and possibly arrogantly selfish. I give the Malcolm story a solid six. Enjoyable but a bit corny at times (Malcolm still seems a little over the top to me.). I'm not giving the Alien story thread a rating because it seemed to be a miniscule portion of the ep when compared to the other two plotlines.

Averaged out we get 3.5.

Edited by CaptQuick

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CaptQuick Posted on Feb 17 2004, 10:06 PM

In either case, T'pol is acting rather strangely.

Lastly, in regards to the love triangle, Trip acts like a jerk too. He flat out lied to Malcolm about his relationship with Commander Cole. "Kissing friends" do not come from America. And it is subverting the rules a bit, as I understand it, to fraternize with another officer (whether in the same service or not). T'pol is an exception because she is not an officer anymore (yes she's a science officer, but that's a skill, not a ranking), but Cole isn't.

 

Actually, I believe officers can fraternize as long as one is not in command of the other. Officers aren't supposed to fraternize with enlisted personnel. I didn't buy the "different branch of service" argument either but none of our military guys have responded to my question. Corporal Cole was enlisted.

 

Archer still refers to T'Pol as his First Officer, - she is second in command aboard Enterprise. But officers can fraternize.

 

Trip's reaction when Corporal Cole kissed him didn't suggest he had romantic inclinations toward her.

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I gave it a 9..Pretty good episode...

 

Click for Spoiler:

That Reed/Hayes fight scene was great. And I was happy to see Travis finally get to do something..I too enjoyed the conversation betwen Trip and Reed..Funny stuff..I hope we haven't seen the last of Lt. Cole..

I agree with that entirely. I gave the episode an 8.

 

Click for Spoiler:

Because the beginning seemed pretty slow and the scenes with Malcolm and Hayes were predictable. But the sparring match in the halls at the end was very good, and the bit at the end with the alien made it one of the best shockers in the entire Xindi arc.

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Actually, I believe officers can fraternize as long as one is not in command of the other.  Officers aren't supposed to fraternize with enlisted personnel.  I didn't buy the "different branch of service" argument either but none of our military guys have responded to my question.  Corporal Cole was enlisted.

 

Archer still refers to T'Pol as his First Officer, - she is second in command aboard Enterprise.  But officers can fraternize.

 

Trip's reaction when Corporal Cole kissed him didn't suggest he had romantic inclinations toward her.

I missed your question, I scanned through this thread but if it's on this one I've missed it.

 

I'll make an assumption that your question is about Officers and Enlisted fraternzing, if that's not the question then just let me know and I'll try to answer.

 

As for Officers and Enlisted, it's not encouraged at all but I was friends with a sergeant (E-5) that started dating the Company XO (Executive Officer) who was a 1st Lieutenant (O-2). They eventually got married and the only consequence was that the Sergeant was transferred out of the unit to another one (on the same Post, Ft. Hood).

 

I don't know if the other services (Navy, Air Force, Marines) have different regulations but in the Army there were no real circumstances.

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Stewey, I read the negative comments you added urging cancellation to the "Save Enterprise" on-line petition. You were signature number three.  You must have rushed over there at lightning speed. Classy.

That was NOT me, that was someone imitating me and it is something I am quite angry about actually. I do have my sispicions as to who I think did it, however I't just my word against his, I'm in a situation where I can't prove it wasn't me and the person who did this has acheived his goal in discrediting me further.

 

You only have my word for that and I have no way to prove it in any way. Not that that will discourage you from personally attacking me anyway because you dislike my pinion anyway. I would have hoped that some of the teachings from Star Trek (IDIC) would have rubbed off on it's fans, most fans seem to accept the idea of an opinion they don't agree with, except for yourself and that is unfortunate.

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You only have my word for that and I have no way to prove it in any way.

If you say it wasn't you then I believe you. I haven't read anything either written by you or supposedly written by you other then what's been written here at STARTREKFANS.NET. I'll base any opinions I may form only from what is here.

 

Rarely do I visit other Star Trek message boards. The reason I rarely do is simple, everything I want to read is right here.

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You surely know me as a big ENT fan. But I only rated Harbinger 5.

 

There are scenes in it I liked very much but there are open questions. I'd be glad if anyone could help me with this:

 

Click for Spoiler:

After "Stratagem" Enterprise is on it's way to Azati Prime. But who knows that? No-one could know. So why did anyone (the Xindi?) leave a pod in that anaomaly?

If the goal was to destroy Enterprise how could anyone know they'd come this way? Would anyone prepare such a mission on the pure possiblity that Enterprise passes by by chance? A lot of efforts were made to give the alien all his abilities. There must be a good reason for this. But I cannot see it if it .

 

And why did the alien want so badly be brought back on his pod when he awoke in the first place?

 

I liked very much the scene with Trip and Malcolm in the mess hall - priceless.

 

Malcolm and Hayes knocking heads - so much fun to see. And hey, Jon can get angry! I loved that!!!

 

Speaking about T'Pol and Trip. That Vulcans cannot lie must be a myth. Because as to me T'Pol has feelings for Trip. Remember how she reacted during the extra practicing. She was distracted, she was jealous! But now she cannot deal with her emotions - her doing. That's my impression.

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9.5 - A great epsiode , some good character work , it was funny to see Reed and Hayes fighting ( what a pair of fools) and who else thought Amanda Cole was hot :rofl:

Edited by trek_dude

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Hayes vs. Reed. Awesome !!!! a 10! :borgqueen:

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