Nemesis Poll

[Guest Ktrek]

I wonder if there is a medical name for this android psychosis? Whatever it is it seems to be spreading!

 

Ktrek

[Takara_Soong 4]

I have heard interviews where Brent Spiner explained that the story took them to a point where either Picard or Data would be killed. I think they thought Data's death would have the greatest impact - which it obviously has by the outcry from not just Data fans but from Trek fans in general.

 

I agree with what Yillara was saying about not understanding why people want a character to die. I have heard that a lot at some Enterprise boards - people upset because no crew members have been killed yet.

 

This is one area where some of my sisters and I differ - I loved Nemesis. I didn't like that Data died but I thought the movie was incredible. I hope there is a way to resurrect Data but not just a poof there he is and not B4 becoming Data. Hopefully the next TNG movie will have some answers - I am going to believe there will be another TNG movie until Paramount says otherwise. If it isn't a full cast - so be it as long as Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner are a part of the movie.

[Takara_Soong 4]

I wonder if there is a medical name for this android psychosis? Whatever it is it seems to be spreading!   

 

Ktrek

It's not a psychosis - it's extreme intelligence!! So all you guys who complain you can't get a Trek girlfriend - get out the gold make-up!!

[Yillara Skye 1]

I have heard interviews where Brent Spiner explained that the story took them to a point where either Picard or Data would be killed.  I think they thought Data's death would have the greatest impact - which it obviously has by the outcry from not just Data fans but from Trek fans in general. 

 

I agree with what Yillara was saying about not understanding why people want a character to die.  I have heard that a lot at some Enterprise boards -  people upset because no crew members have been killed yet. 

 

This is one area where some of my sisters and I differ - I loved Nemesis.  I didn't like that Data died but I thought the movie was incredible.  I hope there is a way to resurrect Data but not just a poof there he is and not B4 becoming Data.  Hopefully the next TNG movie will have some answers - I am going to believe there will be another TNG movie until Paramount says otherwise.  If it isn't a full cast - so be it as long as Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner are a part of the movie.

Yes, I agree with what you said about finding a way to bring him back, and not have B4 become Data, but we have discussed this before in another thread so I will not continue into detail.

 

 

Hey if it is an "android psychosis" that we all have, I am very glad that I "suffer" from it. And I know quite a few that agree with me, right Sisters??

[Lessa_Soong 0]

The killing of Data was jsut so hard to take. I did not like the way it was done and it killed the happy moment of Riker and Troi FINALLY tying the knot.

 

I was so happy that we finally got a main character wedding, but to end it with a main character death? I don't really think i would have been happy even if it was Worf (how i really like) or even Picard (more logical to me, but still i like him) was killed off.

 

If they had kept some of the Family Moments that they cut, maybe i would feel like Takara, but...i jsut cant and i have really tried!

[Guest Ktrek]

Death is a part of the human experience. Now Data has become as human as the rest of the crew. He just met his demise sooner and under such honorable conditions. May he rest in peace. I'm not for bringing him back now that he is dead. I believe that life must be like the Enterprise....moving on! Data would not have wanted it any other way!!!

 

Ktrek

[Yillara Skye 1]

Yes, they should have kept the scenes like the Picard and Data scene after the wedding, and the scene where Data is helping B4 in ten-forward. Those should have stayed! I did like Nemesis, but the reason it doesn't rate as high on my list as First Contact is his death, the missing scenes, and the fact that a high point, is so violently overshadowed by a low point. But there are great points to the movie and the bad and the good balance out to make Nemesis my 2nd place movie!

[Lessa_Soong 0]

Now Data has become as human of the rest of the crew.

 

Just by dying? rubbish! Plants die. Fish die. germs die...nothing human or heroic about it.

 

If there had been no other way. If Picard had been taken instead of chossing foolishly to go (remember the stuff about how a captain is supposed to stay with the ship? what ever happened to that?)

 

Sorry, i know i am over reacting, but the stuff about Data becoming human because he died....kills me. Its like a joke in poor taste to me.

I know the intent of the movie was to have Data die a hero, but it just missed the mark with me.

[Takara_Soong 4]

I keep thinking of that scene in 10 Forward in Time's Arrow Part I. Data was telling Geordi he was comforted by the fact that his apparent impending death meant he wasn't immortal and that fact brought him one step closer to humanity. That's where I get my comfort from regarding Data's death - but I still want him back!!!

[Guest Ktrek]

Data will be seen in glimpses in B-4 much like a child reflects their parents and some of their personality is left with that child even after they are gone. I think leaving it that way brings much more reality to the series than finding some way to resurrect Data. I also think to do so would "cheapen" the sacrifice he made and will make Nemesis an even worse movie viewed in retrospect. No! Leave Data dead and get on with life. It's never good to obessess too much about anything. I think a psychiatrist would really have a hay-day with these Data threads!

 

Ktrek

[A l t e r E g o 9]

The script for NEM as it was written was the best ST screenplay I had ever read, that was the film I expected to see even if I knew it had suffered a few cuts but CRAP, they butchered it.

 

I remember the Honor I felt for Data’s death in the writing but it was NOT on the screen. I may rent the version they are going to release for the SF's but I am not going to ever buy this film until every second of it is restored back to where it belongs.

[TransporterMalfunction 1]

Data will be seen in glimpses in B-4 much like a child reflects their parents and some of their personality is left with that child even after they are gone. I think leaving it that way brings much more reality to the series than finding some way to resurrect Data. I also think to do so would "cheapen" the sacrifice he made and will make Nemesis an even worse movie viewed in retrospect. No! Leave Data dead and get on with life. It's never good to obessess too much about anything. I think a psychiatrist would really have a hay-day with these Data threads!

 

Ktrek

I still think a good way to bring him back would be to download his memory from b4 into the Enterprise computer and then have him come back as a hologram, he could therefore look older and Mr Spiner would have no need to wear make-up.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

...except memories are not a personallity.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Alterego, if you had not read the script... would you still have enjoyed the movie?

[A l t e r E g o 9]

Captain Picard,

 

My orignal post;

Average. I hope the next TNG film is better. TOS cast got another shot to go out with a bang, so should TNG.

 

My second addition;

The script for NEM as it was written was the best ST screenplay I had ever read, that was the film I expected to see even if I knew it had suffered a few cuts but CRAP, they butchered it.

 

I remember the Honor I felt for Data’s death in the writing but it was NOT on the screen. I may rent the version they are going to release for the SF's but I am not going to ever buy this film until every second of it is restored back to where it belongs.

 

Your question;

Alterego, if you had not read the script... would you still have enjoyed the movie?

 

My response;

[TransporterMalfunction 1]

...except memories are not a personallity.

One could argue that one's personality is developed from one's memories and life experiences.

[RikerChick 5]

One could argue that one's personality is developed from one's memories and life experiences.

I would have to agree with that.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Exactly. Memories and life experriences. B4 had Data's memories, but not his life experriences or anything else that was part of his personallity. To me, memories are like information. While they are a part of one's personallity, they do not make up your personallity alone.

[Takara_Soong 4]

Your question;

Alterego, if you had not read the script... would you still have enjoyed the movie?

 

My response;

Alterego, do you think your opinion of Nemesis would be different if you had not read the script before seeing it?

 

I read bits and pieces of the script that was on the internet but I'm never going to do that again. I hated knowing that some things were going to happen and that some really good scenes were deleted.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

I have read novels AFTER seeing films before but this was the first time the opposite had occurred, thanks to being online.

 

When I see a film and then read the novel, if the novel is better than the film I will keep in mind the experience of seeing the movie and if the experience was fun and I was entertained, I will not allow how I feel after reading the book from altering my memories of the fun I had seeing the flick. Doing it in reverse order is something new to me but I suppose the rule should apply in reverse as well.

 

I know others did not read the script and they have rave reviews for it so I guess the answer is yes, I might have enjoyed NEM more if I had not read the script first.

[trekkergirl220 0]

Except for the ending, i didn't think nemesis was too bad, and i really love TNG, so i voted Good, we should see more TNG on the big screen, but thats mostly because we need more of a closure ( well, and that i'm sad this is supposed to be the last one). and when i say good, don't think i'm trying to say it was excellent, or great, just not bad.

I also never read the script, that might be why - maybe i should do that....or maybe not, I don't know if i want to no longer like it

[dsbs 0]

Well, I believe it was in Measure of Man, they were talking about transfering memories and Data said he wasn't sure he was for the prosess cuz he was afraid that the ESSENCE of the experience would be lost, and so I'd like to believe it was with B4 (I say LIKE to because I don't want B4 to become Data, it would be insulting to both of them)...besides, Data had time to prcess each new memory, whereas B4 got it all at once, so no matter which way you look at it, B4 is CAN NOT suddenly become Data.

 

Gosh I remember when I read the Nemesis scrpit...I hate to say this cuz I dont usually cry but I was blubbering like a (I'm trying to misspell a badword but can't)en baby. I had to lock myself in my room so my parents wouldn't see, and I didn't see Nemesis in theatres cuz I was afraid I'd start crying at that scene and I didnt want anyone to see (I was right, by the way )

[Lessa_Soong 0]

I read the interview with Spiner where you had to click on the spoiler if you wanted to see the donw and dirty facts. I sat there with my hands over my face for about five minutes. If there had been a "data is dying" support group back then, i would ahve joined it!

[mj 7]

Well, now that I am prepared for Data's death, after having read all these comments, I think I'll go watch Star Trek:Nemesis for the first time. I am on Christmas vacation, and I have finally rented the video.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Well... if you ask me, knowing that Data dies takes all the emotion out of the scene. Try not to think about it, just go in for a "final TNG adventure" and an "action packed movie". Let Data's fate come as a surprise. Believe me, at the end, I was panicking, becuase I thought Picard was gonna die. Anywho, the very end is very moving, I'd like to discuss the final scene after you watch the movie. Also, look for 2 special cameos, one by a TNG character, another by a VOY character. The TNG cameo is at the wedding, the VOY cameo is 20 mins into the movie.

[Captain Ericks 0]

Average. I hope the next TNG film is better

 

Average because it's action was pretty entertaining, it had a few pretty good themes, and Data's death was touching. But over all it was a little over an 2/3 of pretty good build up for a final 1/3 of action which ends up following hardly any themes at all.

 

I really hope another film is made because I'd hate to think of this as the close for TNG. It has done so much for Star Trek, and TOS ended so well with The Undiscovered Country. I think that with some clever writing they can puill out at least one more.

[mj 7]

Well...  if you ask me, knowing that Data dies takes all the emotion out of the scene.  Try not to think about it, just go in for a "final TNG adventure" and an "action packed movie".  Let Data's fate come as a surprise.  Believe me, at the end, I was panicking, becuase I thought Picard was gonna die. :biggrin: Anywho, the very end is very moving, I'd like to discuss the final scene after you watch the movie.  Also, look for 2 special cameos, one by a TNG character, another by a VOY character.  The TNG cameo is at the wedding, the VOY cameo is 20 mins into the movie.

I did see Guinan and Admiral Janeway, but I must confess I had heard or read that they were in the the film. Didn't you have that picture of Janeway in a spoiler on your signature for a while?

 

While it is true that knowing something as dramatic as Data's death beforehand took the emotional kick out of the scene when it finally happened, this is my pattern in viewing movies. I almost never go to the theater. I mostly see films on video or dvd. So I am always one of the last persons to see a film, and sometimes more than a year after everyone else. So usually I know the basic plot and plot twists of a movie before I even rent and view it.

 

I may depart from this pattern and go see the last installment of the Lord of the Rings, but I only saw The Two Towers last week!

 

I am usually looking for the human drama, what's going on between characters, not just action and surprises. So I was still pretty surprised to see the whole Romulan senate murdered in the first scene. I knew then the magnitude of the heartlessness of the villain involved (the Picard clone.) But still.... :(

 

Then came the jump to the wedding toast, and Picard's last "are you sure you want to leave.."

to Will and Deanna, and I was hooked, because one of the few TNG's I have on tape is the last one that ends with Picard finally opening up to his feelings about his officers...his family.

 

Picard's feeling in Nemesis was real and raw though largely concealed by Picard's emotionless demeanor---his poker-face facade. I felt for Picard. Only in the TNG episode where he lived a lifetime on that doomed planet can I recall being moved by Picard's situation. In contrast from the very first episode of DS9, I was always aware of the inner pain carried by Sisko.

 

But I saw Picard put the incident with that probe that made him live a different lifetime behind him. Now I would like to see one more appearance of Picard to see how he handled all that real loss.

 

So I voted good, and that I would like to see one more TNG episode at the movies ( well.....on dvd or video!).

Edited December 20, 2003 by mjham

[Captain Ericks 0]

Back the fact is that all of the Rising Action built up to an action set piece which could have been done by any one with that kind of money. Out of all of the TNG Movies, there has never been a real thinking movie. Generations and First Contact did a pretty good job of combining action and deep themes. Insurrection tried, and then just fell in another action set, but most of the reason that I would want to see Nemisis would be for the action. I watch The Matrix if I want action. It's not what Star Trek was meant to be.

[Admiral Kirk 1]

Back the fact is that all of the Rising Action built up to an action set piece which could have been done by any one with that kind of money. Out of all of the TNG Movies, there has never been a real thinking movie. Generations and First Contact did a pretty good job of combining action and deep themes. Insurrection tried, and then just fell in another action set, but most of the reason that I would want to see Nemisis would be for the action. I watch The Matrix if I want action. It's not what Star Trek was meant to be.

I think that you are right that the later films should have more thought put into them but Idoubt I would want to see a ST movies that did not have at least some action in it as long as it tied in well with the plot. Even thought I lke STTMP I don't want to see another one made.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Personally, I don't have a problem with lots of action in the movies. However, both 8 & 10 were action-packed. I'd like to see 11 have a more emotional story like 1, 3, 5, 7, & 9 have had.