T'Pal's vulcan strength?

[Essoq 0]

Aren't Vulcans supposed to be stronger than humans? Then why is T'pol always getting pushed around by aliens that even Scott Bacula can beat up? Granted, it might sometimes be logical to refrain from a gratuitous show of brute strength, but her damsel-in-distress routine offends my feminist sensibilities. Where is her Vulcan strength? :) Did anyone else notice this?

Edited January 20, 2004 by Essoq

[A l t e r E g o 9]

If you mean being pushed around like in Chosen Realm, the entire crew was under orders to do nothing except what the captors told them to do. Whanna see T'Pol kick rear-ends? Watch Marauders

[Mike 5]

Yes I have been noticing this right along. I always tell myself that she is deciding logically when to fight and when not to fight. However my patience is running thin. She has been pushed around too easily. One of these weeks I would like her to really let loose and beat up some aliens..Or at least use that Vulcan Neck Pinch once and a while..

[Klingonmike 0]

If you mean being pushed around like in Chosen Realm, the entire crew was under orders to do nothing except what the captors told them to do. Whanna see T'Pol kick rear-ends? Watch Marauders

Thats correct, She was noy going to do anything until she recieved orders from Archer. T'Pol and Phlox are the only ones that knew he was still alive so why risk a problem when you know the Captain is working a plan?

[Essoq 0]

If you mean being pushed around like in Chosen Realm, the entire crew was under orders to do nothing except what the captors told them to do.

Chosen Realm is just one example. All the male crewmembers were also under orders to do nothing but we didn't see them getting physically pushed around. And there are other shows where logic is no excuse to be a wimp.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I know exactly what you're saying but I get dissed whenever I bring it up. Twice in two and a half seasons she's been psychically assaulted - so much for superior Vulcan minds - oh wait one was a Vulcan - maybe she's just an inferior Vulcan. I notice she gets tied up or restrained a lot. She practically whimpered like "sweet polly tied to the railroad track" in Extinction. She was the one we got to see tortured in Shockwave II - (conveniently stripped down to her underwear.)

 

Other people get tied up too:

Archer bores them into untying him

Trip makes wise a-- comments gets free and kicks the tar out of them. And for reward is banished from screen time for actually acting like a Star Fleet officer - oops bitter rant.

 

And it's not just physical weakness - She was a former security officer but had to have Archer come along and hold her hand and "inspire" her to do her job to capture the renegade in "The Seventh"

 

And she needed Trip's advice in how to deal with her "marriage plans" and in one of ENT's finer scenes he told her exactly what he thought. And for being so good onscreen he is banished from screen time......oops.

 

And for the love of Pete I have watched Chosen Realm twice - the second time I was looking for the scene you were all talking about. I didn't notice unless you were talking about the time they pulled her out of her chair and if that was it she was under orders not to fight back. And if that is pushing around what about Archer grabbing Trip and jerking him around - see thread on this?

Edited January 20, 2004 by TheUnicornHunter

[karenjo 0]

I think folks are referring to a scene in which T'Pol grabbed one of the fanatics around the neck from behind. She was summarily yanked off him by another religious nut-type and held at phaser point. Two problems: One, if she'd been serious, she wouldn't have used locked her arms around his neck like a five-year-old wrestling with Daddy, she'd have used the gosh-darn Vulcan pinch. And two, Mr. Religious Nut-Type wouldn't have merely held her at phaser point, he'd have vaporized her.

 

Y'all are right; T'Pol needs to take calcium supplements or something, anything to develop a backbone. Archer's done it; it's her turn now.

 

P.S. The worst example of Spineless T'Pol wasn't even physical. It was in "Twilight," where our damsel-in-distress tried to command the Enterprise and subsequently allowed Trip to be insubordinate as all get-out, not to mention letting the crew, the ship, and the mission go to hell in a shuttlepod. No way. With that withering look of hers? The computer brain? The superior strength? No, no, no. She'd have had Trip in the brig (yes, he's good at what he does, but no mission hangs on the abilities of one person) faster than he could say, "Grits and red-eye gravy."

[Essoq 0]

. The worst example of Spineless T'Pol wasn't even physical.  It was in "Twilight," where our damsel-in-distress tried to command the Enterprise and subsequently allowed Trip to be insubordinate as all get-out, not to mention letting the crew, the ship, and the mission go to hell in a shuttlepod.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. T'pol is at best a little weak (mentally and physically) for a Vulcan, and at worst perpetuating a negative female stereotype. She better start neck-pinching and otherwise kicking butt soon.

Edited January 23, 2004 by Essoq

[Nemesis 0]

Well you also have to keep in mind that Vulcans are passifists so it is logical for her not to use her fool strength and rather use time to stratedgise. There have been many times where T'pol has kicked serious alien tushy too. As I always say, "if you only look for problems that is all you'll ever see."

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Aren't Vulcans supposed to be stronger than humans?  Then why is T'pol always getting pushed around by aliens that even Scott Bacula can beat up?  Granted, it might sometimes be logical to refrain from a gratuitous show of brute strength, but her damsel-in-distress routine offends my feminist sensibilities.  Where is her Vulcan strength?    Did anyone else notice this?

Why does T'Pol being pushed arround effect your fiminism? Just because she gets pushed arroung doesn't make her weak. So far, she's usually been attacked by aliens that are pretty strong or surprise her from behind, so I don't think it makes her look weak.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I know exactly what you're saying but I get dissed whenever I bring it up.  Twice in two and a half seasons she's been psychically assaulted - so much for superior Vulcan minds - oh wait one was a Vulcan - maybe she's just an inferior Vulcan.  I notice she gets tied up or restrained a lot. She practically whimpered like "sweet polly tied to the railroad track" in Extinction. She was the one we got to see tortured in Shockwave II - (conveniently stripped down to her underwear.)

Twice? That doesn't sound very often. One Vulcan male assaults T'Pol via mind-meld, something which she hadn't experrience with. Why does this make her look weak? She gets tied up or restrained alot? Only when she gets captured with Archer. Did it occur to you that she let them push her arround in "Extiction" becuase she didn't want to hurt them? As for acting weak in the episode, obviously it was the alien virus effecting her. If Klingons can be effected by Sulliban torture, then so can Vulcans.

 

And it's not just physical weakness - She was a former security officer but had to have Archer come along and hold her hand and "inspire" her to do her job to capture the renegade in "The Seventh"

Yes, and that incident really messed up her mind. That's why she needed Archer's help.

 

And she needed Trip's advice in how to deal with her "marriage plans" and in one of ENT's finer scenes he told her exactly what he thought.  And for being so good onscreen he is banished from screen time......oops.

She didn't need Trip's advice, she just wanted him to tell her what she thought she should do. It's alot easier hearing something from someone else than telling yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

ALSO: What bugs me is when people think T'Pol should represent all female Vulcans. For goodness sakes, people, she's an individual. She's not perfect, let her develope as T'Pol and not the stereo-typical female Vulcan.

Edited January 23, 2004 by Captain Jean-Luc Picard

[karenjo 0]

Well you also have to keep in mind that Vulcans are passifists so it is logical for her not to use her fool strength and rather use time to stratedgise. There have been many times where T'pol has kicked serious alien tushy too. As I always say, "if you only look for problems that is all you'll ever see."

Vulcans, as I understand them, are not strict pacifists. They prefer not to use violence, because of the fact that their own violent history almost destroyed them as a species. However, from Spock to Tuvok, they have shown themselves capable of violence and willing to use it under certain circumstances.

 

Also, the nerve pinch incapacitates without doing lasting harm. It effectively halts the "cycle of violence" with a sort of gentle force. (Gee, I do that with my four-year-olds all the time. Not with a neck pinch, of course. Sending them to separate rooms has the same effect...but somehow, I don't think that would've worked with the antagonists in "Chosen Realm.")

 

As for looking for problems, I can only speak for myself, but I'm not "looking" for problems. When I see them, I won't shut my eyes to them and pretend they're not there. I'm pointing out what I perceive as a flaw and an inconcistency in T'Pol's character, and I'm doing so because I like her and would love to see her -- and Jolene Blalock -- reach their considerable potential in this series.

[KayTroi 0]

Yes, I noticed this. I really believe with all my heart that T'Pol has the strength to defeat her enemies but she chooses not too. I think it is time to show some of that brute force. I for one am tired of watching her getting her but whipped.

 

I think the character should be able to show-off some of her Vulcan talents when it comes to the art of fighting. T'Pol is a true Vulcan; it is time for her to act like one.

 

I am a woman and I dislike seeing the damsel in distress card being used all the time. After a while, it really becomes tiresome. :(

 

There is only so much one can do with the damsel in distress card. Women have come a long way over the years so I believe they should be potrayed as the strong women that they are not weaklings.