Why did DS9 have so few 2-parters?

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

First off, to avoid confusion, here's what I consider to be a 2-part episode:

4-01 The Way of the Warrior, Part I

4-02 The Way of the Warrior, Part II

 

Here's what I don't consider to be a 2-part episode:

4-11 Homefront

4-12 Paradise Lost

 

In terms of two-part episodes, AKA TV movies, TOS had 1, TNG had 10, VOY had 12, and ENT has had two so far. How come DS9 only had 6? Perhaps it was due to the show taking an "arc" format where VOY was more episodic, with arcs, along with epic movie-style two-part episodes?

 

What are your thoughts on this?

[trekzone 0]

i think that any episode that ends with

 

TO BE CONTINUED...

 

or

 

SUSPENSE

 

is a 2 part episode, there were many like this:

 

The second season premiere had a three episode arc, Homefront (as mentioned) In Purgortorys Shadow.....

[VaBeachGuy 12]

I consider "Emissary" a 2 parter (as does ST.COM). "The Maquis" is a 2 parter. "The Search" is a 2 parter. "Past Tense" is a 2 parter and "What You Leave Behind" is considered a 2 parter.

 

Here's a full list of all the episodes that ST.COM lists as 2 parters:

 

Emissary, Part I

Emissary, Part II

 

The Maquis, Part I

The Maquis, Part II

 

The Search, Part I

The Search, Part II

 

Past Tense, Part I

Past Tense, Part II

 

The Way of the Warrior, Part I

The Way of the Warrior, Part II

 

What You Leave Behind, Part I

What You Leave Behind, Part II

 

Homefront and Paradise Lost aren't listed as 2 parters but I would consider them as such. So if we include these 2 as a 2-parter then there were 7 DS9 episodes that were "2-parters" if we don't count them as a 2-parter then there were 6 2-parters. I myself would consider Homefront and Paradise Lost as a 2-parter simply because Homefront ends with the words "To Be Continued" printed on the screen and Paradise Lost begins with the phrase "Last Time On Star Trek Deep Space Nine".

 

Whichever episodes you wish to consider 2-parters is a personal choice but I think the reason there were fewer in DS9 then TNG and Voyager is because of something you have pointed out in the past. DS9 was more of an Arc based series, so 2-parters weren't needed as much. Many of the stories were carried out over time and in the case of the opening of season 3 you could almost consider that a 3-parter but I would tend to say it's a mini-arc covered over 3 episodes. Those are my thoughts anyway, but of all of the episodes they officially list 6 2-parters.

[trekker 0]

there was a joke once on seinfeld about 2 parter stories on tv. i can't reproduce it very well but shall try.

ur watching a show on tv which normally runs for 30 mins but it's twenty past and benji is no where near solving the mystery and kat still hasn't got her man, at twenty five past u start becoming anxious and then: to be continued... comes up on the screen and you groan.

i always do. i am glad ds9 didn't have so many 2 parters i do however prefer the continuity of ds9 to the more episodic nature of tng and voyager.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Trekzone, I define a two-parter as more than one episode with the same title, each episode being Part #. If it's two or more episodes that have "to be continued" or "last time on (something)", then I consider that to be, what I like to call, a mini-arc. A mini-arc is a term I coined for TV shows that have 2-5 or so episodes in a row as an arc, versus the traditional "Something, Parts I & II".

 

 

VBG, I counted the same 6 2-parters at StarTrek.com Your post makes the most sense to me, very much appreciated. However, I consider episodes like "Homefront/Paradise Lost" to be a 2-episode arc. I've watched many shows where you'd have up to 4 episodes in a row with "to be continued..." and "previously on (something)".

 

 

Trekker, I kind'a agree with you. I love 2-parters, but with DS9's heavy arc for mat, they just really weren't neccessary.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

To tell the truth I never gave this question any thought but now that you ask this seems the to be the most likely answer:

 

Perhaps it was due to the show taking an "arc" format

 

Yeah, I'll buy that.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

However, I consider episodes like "Homefront/Paradise Lost" to be a 2-episode arc. 

I could accept it as a 2 parter or arc, either way but I would lean more in the direction of 2-parter. This is why.

 

Think of what an actual "Arc" is and what it looks like. It has a starting point, a peak (or middle) and an end. So to me, a TV Arc would need to be at least 3 parts. The first episode being the starting point of the arc, the second being the peak and the third being the ending of the arc.

 

If you go back and look at some of DS9's arcs you will see that the main thrust of the arc is a particular storyline. Like the Klingon arc that started in the final episode of season 3, "The Adversary" and ended in the first episode of season 5, "Apocalypse Rising". That story was broken into many small elements and spread over the course of a full season (Season 4). There were stories in between though that didn't have anything to do with the arc and there were stories that only briefly touched on the arc.

 

Then during that arc we had a "mini-arc" with "Indiscretion" and "Return to Grace", that's where Gul Dukat learns that Ziyal (his half Bajoran daughter) is alive and sets out to kill her, then in Return to Grace" we see how he has become a devoted father and how he was disgraced because of the knowledge of her existence and so on. That wasn't a 2 parter simply because they were 2 different stories that were separated by several other unrelated episodes.

 

A 2-parter is one specific story broken into 2 parts and played in consecutive order. The first episode gives you the first half of the story and the second episode gives you the second half of the story. If the episodes were to stand alone you would not have the full picture of that specific story but if you were to take those episodes and cut out the credits they could seamlessly become one 2 hour episode. So to me, Homefront and Paradise Lost is a 2 parter even though they have different titles and Part I/Part II isn't part of their titles.

 

The title is a trivial aspect of it anyway, what makes it a "2-parter" is the story and how that story is told and how it fits together.

 

I don't know if I explained that very well but in typing it I convinced myself that Homefront/Paradise Lost is most definitely a 2 parter lol.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Story wise, you're right VBG. However, I still consider a two-parter to be "Something, Parts I & II". I guess it's just how I see it. If it's not "Part I & II", then I'd say it's a story spanning two episodes. Yes, I know I kind'a described a 2-parter, I dunno, I guess I just like being accurrate and specific.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Story wise, you're right VBG.  However, I still consider a two-parter to be "Something, Parts I & II".  I guess it's just how I see it.  If it's not "Part I & II", then I'd say it's a story spanning two episodes.  Yes, I know I kind'a described a 2-parter, I dunno, I guess I just like being accurrate and specific.

Think of it like this, would you consider the movies "First Blood", "Rambo: First Blood Part II" and "Rambo: First Blood Part III" as a "3-part movie"? The last 2 segments have "Part II and Part III" in them but they are all 3 different and individual stories that can stand on their own. But in the technical sense going strictly by their title they are a 3 part movie. How about Lord Of The Rings? That's a 3 part movie in which they have different titles and no "Part I, II or III" in the title but that is clearly a 3 parter where each part of the movie is dependant on the previous part.

 

I don't think you can go strictly on the title to determine if it's a 2 parter. Anything or anyone can have a title but the title isn't what makes it what it is. I could go spend $20 and officially become a Doctor but does the title make me a Doctor?

 

Like I said though, I could accept it either way. Mini-Arc or 2 parter, in my mind though I'll think of those 2 episodes as 1 2-parter.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I just think that if it's a 2-parter, it should be "Something, Parts I & II". Other wise, I look at an episode guide and assume their invidual episodes. However, you do have a point.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

I just think that if it's a 2-parter, it should be "Something, Parts I & II".  Other wise, I look at an episode guide and assume their invidual episodes.  However, you do have a point.

In this sole case (Homefront/Paradise Lost) could you watch Paradise Lost as a stand alone episode? If you watched Homefront would you then want to see the second part to see how the story ends?

 

I think the difference between Arc and 2-parter is this, a 2-parter is a story that begins in one episode (Homefront) and when that hour comes to an end there is no conclusion, it just ends abruptly and there is absolutely no resolution to any of the story lines in that hour, thus making it an incomplete episode. The second part begins in the middle of a story with activity already in process. A newcomer to the episode would be left completely in the dark on the story.

 

An Arc is several stories that are strung together over the course of time, each story has a conclusion yet each new story adds to the overall storyline of the Arc.

 

So you have to look at Homefront/Paradise Lost and analyse the story structure, can they stand alone or do you have to have one to support the other? Can they be played in reverse order and still have them make sense? In this case no, that's why I consider them a 2 parter. To watch them you have to watch Homefront and then Paradise Lost to get the full story from beginning to end.

 

When reading the title of an episode keep in mind that it is only a description of the story and isn't meant to express anything other then what the theme of that particular episode is. In Homefront the theme is "Homeland Security", we have to protect the homefront. In Paradise Lost the theme is "Martial Law", Earth is no longer a paradise, there are armed soldiers on every corner and an Admiral is plotting a coup of Earth's government.

 

I'm curious, have you seen Homefront & Paradise Lost yet?

[ddillard 2]

Myself I am glad that there were not as many two parters in DS9. I honestly don't like them as well. I hate having to wait a week or more to see how something is resolved. Of course I am still watching DS9 for the first time and I am having to be real carefull that I download and view them in order so that I do not miss anything in the arc.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I just think that if it's a 2-parter, it should be "Something, Parts I & II".  Other wise, I look at an episode guide and assume their invidual episodes.  However, you do have a point.

In this sole case (Homefront/Paradise Lost) could you watch Paradise Lost as a stand alone episode? If you watched Homefront would you then want to see the second part to see how the story ends?

 

I think the difference between Arc and 2-parter is this, a 2-parter is a story that begins in one episode (Homefront) and when that hour comes to an end there is no conclusion, it just ends abruptly and there is absolutely no resolution to any of the story lines in that hour, thus making it an incomplete episode. The second part begins in the middle of a story with activity already in process. A newcomer to the episode would be left completely in the dark on the story.

 

An Arc is several stories that are strung together over the course of time, each story has a conclusion yet each new story adds to the overall storyline of the Arc.

 

So you have to look at Homefront/Paradise Lost and analyse the story structure, can they stand alone or do you have to have one to support the other? Can they be played in reverse order and still have them make sense? In this case no, that's why I consider them a 2 parter. To watch them you have to watch Homefront and then Paradise Lost to get the full story from beginning to end.

 

When reading the title of an episode keep in mind that it is only a description of the story and isn't meant to express anything other then what the theme of that particular episode is. In Homefront the theme is "Homeland Security", we have to protect the homefront. In Paradise Lost the theme is "Martial Law", Earth is no longer a paradise, there are armed soldiers on every corner and an Admiral is plotting a coup of Earth's government.

 

I'm curious, have you seen Homefront & Paradise Lost yet?

By this logic, could we have a 4-part episode? I remember a Roswell story that took 4 episodes to resolve. What's your take on this? Yes, I've seen some episodes from seasons 1-3 and all of seasons 4-7.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

I just think that if it's a 2-parter, it should be "Something, Parts I & II".  Other wise, I look at an episode guide and assume their invidual episodes.  However, you do have a point.

In this sole case (Homefront/Paradise Lost) could you watch Paradise Lost as a stand alone episode? If you watched Homefront would you then want to see the second part to see how the story ends?

 

I think the difference between Arc and 2-parter is this, a 2-parter is a story that begins in one episode (Homefront) and when that hour comes to an end there is no conclusion, it just ends abruptly and there is absolutely no resolution to any of the story lines in that hour, thus making it an incomplete episode. The second part begins in the middle of a story with activity already in process. A newcomer to the episode would be left completely in the dark on the story.

 

An Arc is several stories that are strung together over the course of time, each story has a conclusion yet each new story adds to the overall storyline of the Arc.

 

So you have to look at Homefront/Paradise Lost and analyse the story structure, can they stand alone or do you have to have one to support the other? Can they be played in reverse order and still have them make sense? In this case no, that's why I consider them a 2 parter. To watch them you have to watch Homefront and then Paradise Lost to get the full story from beginning to end.

 

When reading the title of an episode keep in mind that it is only a description of the story and isn't meant to express anything other then what the theme of that particular episode is. In Homefront the theme is "Homeland Security", we have to protect the homefront. In Paradise Lost the theme is "Martial Law", Earth is no longer a paradise, there are armed soldiers on every corner and an Admiral is plotting a coup of Earth's government.

 

I'm curious, have you seen Homefront & Paradise Lost yet?

By this logic, could we have a 4-part episode? I remember a Roswell story that took 4 episodes to resolve. What's your take on this? Yes, I've seen some episodes from seasons 1-3 and all of seasons 4-7.

Yes, I think there can be a 3 or 4 part episode. It's all a matter of how the story is made and how it is played out. Is each story self contained and able to stand on it's own or does it require the playing of the other episodes to complete it? In the case of an "Arc" the stories can stand alone, in the case of a 2, 3 or 4 parter each episode is dependant on the others to complete it.

 

I'm not sure of your answer, does that mean you have seen Homefront/Paradise Lost?

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Yes, as I've seen those 2 episodes durring the 4th season, I believe it was. Defiant vs. Lakota was awesome! B)

 

Anywho, I guess I could see how "Paradise Lost" and "Homefront" could make a 2-part episode. The question is, on the DVD's, would they be put together with a "slash" between the titles, or as seperate episodes? While I've brought this up, for episodes that are "Something, Parts I & II", are they on the DVD's as a complete episode or broken up into their two parts? Perhaps they put them on the DVD's as they originally aired?

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Yes, as I've seen those 2 episodes durring the 4th season, I believe it was.  Defiant vs. Lakota was awesome! B)

 

Anywho, I guess I could see how "Paradise Lost" and "Homefront" could make a 2-part episode.  The question is, on the DVD's, would they be put together with a "slash" between the titles, or as seperate episodes?  While I've brought this up, for episodes that are "Something, Parts I & II", are they on the DVD's as a complete episode or broken up into their two parts?  Perhaps they put them on the DVD's as they originally aired?

Like with the other 2 parters they have them as separate episodes. I think there was only one episode that was put on the DVD as a single episode and that was Emissary. All of the others are separated.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Perhaps they only do the series premiere and finale as "complete" episodes?

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Perhaps they only do the series premiere and finale as "complete" episodes?

I don't have season 7 so I'm not sure how they did the final episode but I think it has more to do with how the episode was aired. Emissary was all on one night so it is on the DVD as 1 episode. The final episode was all on one night so it may be the same way. I'd have to double check to see how any of the other 2 parters were aired vs. how they are on the DVDs.

 

But like I said, I think the way to tell if it's an Arc or multi parter is the story. Is it all one story broken into several episodes or is it several stories over several episodes.

[ARMS 0]

To be honest, i'm glad it did have so few of them, because they annoy me, thats probably why i loved DS9 so much.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

To be honest, i'm glad it did have so few of them, because they annoy me, thats probably why i loved DS9 so much.

Some shows need to be 2-parters though, but DS9's Arc themed shows made them pretty much unneeded.

[stoned_vulcan 0]

most of the episodes began with a recap of the episodes that came before it in teh last season there were alot of episodes that began like that, possibly because of the arch, however DS9 holds the only 3 parter episode of the trek francise

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

DS9 holds the only 3 parter episode of the trek francise

Whch episode is that?

[Gary Phaserman 0]

a three parter? Wow! Hey, Picard, you used to also be Daniel_jackson in the startrek.com rooms, didn't you?

[VaBeachGuy 12]

DS9 holds the only 3 parter episode of the trek francise

Whch episode is that?

This must be the opening arc of season 2. The Homecoming, The Circle & The Siege. They all 3 run based on the same storyline but I think would be more properly called an arc (or mini-arc).

[Sam The Smuggler 1]

DS9 holds the only 3 parter episode of the trek francise

Whch episode is that?

This must be the opening arc of season 2. The Homecoming, The Circle & The Siege. They all 3 run based on the same storyline but I think would be more properly called an arc (or mini-arc).

Quite True, That's What I Loved About Deep Space Nine

[He Who Shall Not Be Named 2]

6 2-parters is actually quite a lot. I don't think TNG and VOY had that many.

[Sam The Smuggler 1]

6 2-parters is actually quite a lot.  I don't think TNG and VOY had that many.

TNG

 

"Encounter At Farpoint"

"Best Of Both Worlds"

"Redemption"

"Unification"

"Time's Arrow"

"Chain Of Command"

"Birthright"

"Descent"

"Gambit"

"All Good Things..."

 

10.

 

Note:"EAF" & "AGT" Were Split Into 2 Episodes In Rerun Airings.

 

Anyone Got Voyager's Count?

[Uncle Buck 0]

I noticed that started after DS9's episode Homefront. I find very confusing, I guess due to differnt arcs they had to have so many two parters that are allowed for a show. The Way of A Warrior is a two parter.