MaQuIs_PrInCeSs 0 Posted April 10, 2003 How come Harry Kim was on Voyager for 7 years, being an up-standing officer and never got promoted. If Tom could get demoted and then promoted again, then Kim should of got promoted to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sarah 0 Posted April 10, 2003 I think you always have to have the "underdog" dont ya. though harry was able to have command of voyager during night shifts I think !?!? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
~Crims~ 0 Posted April 10, 2003 Yup, he got to command during nightshifts. It was actually part of the story line as the topic came up quite often. Which is why it's ironic that in end game, in the first future he's a Captain. I'm sure they did that in relation to him being an ensign the whole time on voyager. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prometheus 0 Posted April 10, 2003 Tom was older than Harry which may feature into it. Though maybe because the ship was so small and there were enough 'chiefs' as it were and not enough 'indians', raising his rank wouldnt really put him any higher on the crew scale. He had his niche which he filled well. If it's not broken... Once they would get back though then being part of the larger Star Fleet again, he would have more room within which to use a promotion. I always asked though, WHY WAS DATA NOT PROMOTED? All except for Dovtor Bev got promotions or were offered them in TNG except for this outstanding crewmember who could quite easily captain a ship (Redemption). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaQuIs_PrInCeSs 0 Posted April 10, 2003 Ya, you all have good points. Harry was still young even, Voyager was his first assignment. Even though it was a pretty long assignment! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lubak10 0 Posted April 12, 2003 Ya, you all have good points. Harry was still young even, Voyager was his first assignment. Even though it was a pretty long assignment! :blink: With all he did for Voyager though he should have been promoted even though he was young. The fact that he never did always got on my nerves! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
~Crims~ 0 Posted April 12, 2003 Ya, you all have good points. Harry was still young even, Voyager was his first assignment. Even though it was a pretty long assignment! :blink: With all he did for Voyager though he should have been promoted even though he was young. The fact that he never did always got on my nerves! I agree, he should have been promoted but I can see why he wouldn't be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takara_Soong 4 Posted April 12, 2003 What exactly is the protocol on promotions? I would assume they have to be rubberstamped by Starfleet headquarters otherwise there wouldn't be such a thing as a field promotion. So if Janeway were only able to give field promotions it wouldn't mean anything in the end as they would return to their original ranks once they got back. Plus there will always be people who will think they deserved a promotion over someone else so problems could be created that way causing serious morale issues on the ship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1 Posted April 12, 2003 Since Harry is a SENIOR OFFICER, I say he should have been promoted to junior lieutennant by the final season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon Redwing 0 Posted April 21, 2003 I think it is just because Janeway wanted to limit the number of field promotions. Maybe she just doesn't feel like it. One things for sure, if they were back in the Alpha Quadrant (and I'm guessing WHEN they got back) that Harry would be promoted. Remember Nog? He got promoted to Lieutenant in almost half the time that Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant. What up with that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaQuIs_PrInCeSs 0 Posted April 21, 2003 Mabye Captain Janeway wanted to keep him working hard for a promotion, but had no intesion of giving one to him at all. Bad Captain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ddillard 2 Posted April 21, 2003 I think that it had to do with his age and the amount of time that he had spent in Starfleet. But also maybe the Captain was holding off on the promotion in hopes of the crew returning home where he could receive the promotion from Starfleet, which would mean more to Harry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsbs 0 Posted April 26, 2003 I think it had to do with the fact that he was one of my favourite VOY characters (as soon as I found out he played saxophone, it was sealed!). They never get promoted. It's part of the curse (the other part being that they DIE! Beware Harry!!) ok, seriously (I was serious before, too!), I think that there were too many other things going on. He was young (VOY WAS his first mission, after all), and some MIGHT say (me not included) that he wasn't a stand-out member of the crew... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ensign_beedrill 0 Posted April 28, 2003 This is why I love Sev Trek. They explain all of these mysteries. The link to the explanation of Harry's lack of promotion is http://cartoons.sev.com.au/archivepage.php...?cartoonid=s209. Poor Harry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deagletime 1 Posted April 28, 2003 i dont if youve heard of the "glass ceiling" but its a term to describe when someone is discriminated for some reason and cannot move upward because of this discrimination... could this be the case? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gotabite 0 Posted April 28, 2003 Don't get me wrong, because Tom Paris became a favorite character of mine in this series, but if he could go from being a prisoner to having an officer's status; surely Harry Kim deserved a promotion over the course of seven years. After seven years, he certainly wasn't that young anymore. :wub: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ensign_beedrill 0 Posted April 29, 2003 i dont if youve heard of the "glass ceiling" but its a term to describe when someone is discriminated for some reason and cannot move upward because of this discrimination... could this be the case? Perhaps. But think about the time period. In the future, they've pretty much done away with discrimination. I mean, it's still there, there's no way to ever really eliminate it, I don't think. But, this is the idealistic future, where things are better than they are today. And I don't think Captain Janeway's that sort of person, anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsbs 0 Posted April 29, 2003 I dunno about that - cough Data cough. Sorry, wrong board. Lol about the cartoon, though. Poor Harry. Recyclable Ensign...Well, I guess they needed at least one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ddillard 2 Posted April 29, 2003 I have been thinking about it and I have a thought. On military vessels there are only a certain number of positions available for a certain rank. Maybe starfleet is set up that way and Harry was just stuck because of the lack of need for someone of a higher position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsbs 0 Posted April 30, 2003 That's probably true...not too many people got promoted on voyager... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syperphobia 0 Posted May 6, 2003 This might have some relevence, and it can have no relevence whatsoever, but didnt the original Harry die?!?! I think that Janeway and the rest of the crew grew emotionally attached to the old one and therefore neglected to even consider the duplicated Harry to get a position. I think the old Harry was killed off mid season two, Tom Paris was even shook up by the change due to that he lost his friend. It just was not the same one that was with him in "The Chute" (The duplication episode really made me cry when they destroyed one Voyager, but it really confused me to know if that was the real Harry or not... boggles the mind) Note: the enemy they had to get away from was the species who had the Phage. If that is not an acceptable reason then I think that he just begged too much and instead of working normally he pushed himself too hard. Janeway knew that giving him too much juice would make him explode. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsbs 0 Posted May 6, 2003 Both harry's were exactly the same with the same experiences and ideas until the point when they separated (kinda like Riker and Thomas in Second Chances) so not promoting him based on that is ludicrous! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1 Posted May 6, 2003 This might have some relevence, and it can have no relevence whatsoever, but didnt the original Harry die?!?! I think that Janeway and the rest of the crew grew emotionally attached to the old one and therefore neglected to even consider the duplicated Harry to get a position. I think the old Harry was killed off mid season two, Tom Paris was even shook up by the change due to that he lost his friend. It just was not the same one that was with him in "The Chute" (The duplication episode really made me cry when they destroyed one Voyager, but it really confused me to know if that was the real Harry or not... boggles the mind) Note: the enemy they had to get away from was the species who had the Phage. If that is not an acceptable reason then I think that he just begged too much and instead of working normally he pushed himself too hard. Janeway knew that giving him too much juice would make him explode. OK, the episode was mid-season 2, and it was called "Deadlock". Basically, Voyager passed through a some kind of rift that essentially duplicated every molecule on the ship, except for the anti-matter, the ship's primary fuel. Essentially, all the molecules duplicated, thus both ships originated from Voyager. I know, confusing! B) With that said, either ship can be said to be the real ship. Personally, I thought the damaged duplicate would get destroyed since Harry and the baby died on that ship. When the Viddians attacked and hit the undamaged Voyager, which was apparantly more in phase than the other, that Janeway chose to self destruct her ship, but not before sending her Harry and Wildman's baby to the other Voyager. So, this is not a vallid reason for Harry not to get promoted, plus, "The Chute" was actually the episode where Tom & Harry's friendship became solid. I think the reason why Harry never got promoted was that there are 5 officer ranks under the captain. You can't have everyone by a Commander! B) So, I think this is why it was rare for anyone to get promoted. Part of why Tuvok was promoted durring the 3rd season was that he had originally joined Starfleet back in the 23rd century. Guess he was due for one... :( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syperphobia 0 Posted May 7, 2003 I guess this makes sence, but it is true that everyone seemed to get promoted or recognized. I mean, being in charge of night shift seems like small potatos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spork 0 Posted May 17, 2003 I'm actually one of those people who never understood why harry was never promoted. given all the crap he had to endure...just to put things into perspetive, here's a list of stuff he had to go through. (in no particular order, just whatever comes to mind) - taken by the caretaker and experimented on - gets "eaten" by a monster on the holodeck - almost gotten killed by an insane stasis pod AI - sucked through a hull breach (sure there was another harry to replace him, but he died none the less) - got sucked through a subspace vacuole to another planet or dimension, only to get killed as the only means of getting back to voyager - kidnapped, had his DNA altered, and was almost dissolved, just so that his genetic material could be extracted to make children - gets lost in another dimension, through a shuttle accident, where he was never part of the voyager crew - was taken hostage by hirogen to modify and repair voyager, while his crewmates fight in the holodeck (don't know if this is good or not...although he does end up being a hero for freeing the crew) - gets thrown into an alien jail and has his mind messed with, almost killing tom - almost dissolved by specis 8472 - assimilated by the borg children - gets dupicated by the "silver blood" the real harry almost dies w/tom on the demon planet - gets killed again in a warp core breach, this time in a future he tries to alter b/c he and chakotay are the only two survivors after a slip-stream accident (might not count as it happened in the future, but either way harry dies AGAIN!) - taken hostage by the doctor who has been possesed by a murderous, sentient(?) weapon. - taken hostage by a xenophobic alien, when an act of sabotage fails to electocute him (the racing episode) might have missed a few things, but with his track record of getting taken hostage, dying 3 times, getting dissolved, assimlilated or coming close to dying again... it makes you wonder what does a person have to go through to get a promotion! not to mention his personal life: falling for a hologram, a borg, a dead ex-girlfriend, a xenophobic girl, another girl who gets him addicted to her... geez... kinda looks like he was at the butt end of some crule joke eh?? poor guy. anyone else have anything? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deagletime 1 Posted May 17, 2003 needless to say it all works out in the end...if we assume that by endgame..it has been 16 years in the delta quadrant before they arrive home...10 years following that we find that he has had his own ship for four years (deep space mission) with the rank of captain...if he graduated SF Academy at 22ish (4years after highschool) then 22+16+(10-4) is about 42 where he has the rank of captain...about where he should be....so then we can assume that he did eventually got promoted on voyager or jumped a few ranks when he got back to earth...neverthless..he did make captain by his early fourtees right about where sisko and janeway did..(picard i dont have the patients to look up the info) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsbs 0 Posted May 17, 2003 I'm actually one of those people who never understood why harry was never promoted. given all the crap he had to endure...just to put things into perspetive, here's a list of stuff he had to go through. (in no particular order, just whatever comes to mind) - taken by the caretaker and experimented on - gets "eaten" by a monster on the holodeck - almost gotten killed by an insane stasis pod AI - sucked through a hull breach (sure there was another harry to replace him, but he died none the less) - got sucked through a subspace vacuole to another planet or dimension, only to get killed as the only means of getting back to voyager - kidnapped, had his DNA altered, and was almost dissolved, just so that his genetic material could be extracted to make children - gets lost in another dimension, through a shuttle accident, where he was never part of the voyager crew - was taken hostage by hirogen to modify and repair voyager, while his crewmates fight in the holodeck (don't know if this is good or not...although he does end up being a hero for freeing the crew) - gets thrown into an alien jail and has his mind messed with, almost killing tom - almost dissolved by specis 8472 - assimilated by the borg children - gets dupicated by the "silver blood" the real harry almost dies w/tom on the demon planet - gets killed again in a warp core breach, this time in a future he tries to alter b/c he and chakotay are the only two survivors after a slip-stream accident (might not count as it happened in the future, but either way harry dies AGAIN!) - taken hostage by the doctor who has been possesed by a murderous, sentient(?) weapon. - taken hostage by a xenophobic alien, when an act of sabotage fails to electocute him (the racing episode) might have missed a few things, but with his track record of getting taken hostage, dying 3 times, getting dissolved, assimlilated or coming close to dying again... it makes you wonder what does a person have to go through to get a promotion! not to mention his personal life: falling for a hologram, a borg, a dead ex-girlfriend, a xenophobic girl, another girl who gets him addicted to her... geez... kinda looks like he was at the butt end of some crule joke eh?? poor guy. anyone else have anything? POOR GUY! Well, in the new timeline, where the crew gets home in 7 years and Janeway becomes admiral (I know she was in the other timeline too, but that's not the point) I say she gets together with Chakotay, Seven and the Doctor get together and he chooses a name that is NOT Joe, and Harry gets Captain faster than (or as fast as) Kirk! Come on, he deserves it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KayTroi 0 Posted May 18, 2003 Yes, MaQuIs PrInCeSs, I agree with you 100%. I think Ensign Harry Kim should have been promoted to Lt. Harry Kim three years earlier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prometheus 0 Posted May 20, 2003 Maybe he refused to sleep with Janeway and so didnt get promoted. Paris probably did and that's how he got to be a lieutenant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KayTroi 0 Posted May 20, 2003 I still say that Harry Kim should be a higher rank than ensign. He should at Least be Lt. Harry Kim. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
