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gul_nodrog

Worst thing about Voyager

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We are rewatching the series and are almost through Season 2, and I just have to say that for me, the worst thing about Voyager is Kes/Neelix. Both were o.k. separately, but their unrealistic pairing is just jarring.

 

Second worse thing is the reset button that is hit at the final moments of each episode ... Everything has hit the fan and then a minute later, we hear Janeway's log entry summing it all up?!? I find myself frowning in puzzlement with that "what just happened?" look on my face!

 

I'm actually looking forward to Kes' departure, even though I like her (especially scenes with her and the Doctor or her and Janeway), but she really limits Neelix' appeal and I think we're supposed to like him.

 

The best thing about Voyager for me is probably The Doctor! He is brilliantly realized. Picardo is very good.

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I agree with you and could add more characters I dislike but instead I will add one more worst thing of a different sort, the poor portrayal of that Quadrants citizens. First the lowly Kazons seem to own most of it, then when they finally get out of their space, few species have anything more of interest to offer than they did.

 

Is it just me or do they go out of their way to avoid populated worlds to make First Contact with? I only remember them encountering isolated rogue factions hell bent on imprisoning unwary travelers for some insane reason. Of those only a couple stand out as memorable.

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Honestly, I didn't really like Kes or Neelix. Kes was a rehashing of Wesley Crusher, only more annoying. Wesley at least had a mischievous side that came out once in awhile. Kes was just all pure soul, never could do any wrong, and it just got so incredibly annoying, that I was glad she left.

 

Neelix was a teddy bear with a commission. Plain and simple. He was more tolerable though because they gave him a niche on the ship. They tried to make Kes work as a sick bay nurse, but they always kept having her save the day that it just belied her character. And the Kes-Neelix relationship was horrible. I kept thinking about the original notion put forth in the pilot that Ocampans were very short lived. Neelix, being a scavenger, had been around for a long time... in essence, Neelix was a cradle-robber, bordering on pedophile. He's a creepy old dude dating a vulnerable, really young woman. Even by Ocampan standards, she was still a teenager, or college girl.

 

I didn't really notice what AE mentioned, but thinking about it, I do remember that I pretty much wound up not liking any of the other worlds that Voyager encountered. Seriously, the Federation just sucks at making friends in the Delta Quadrant, but I don't feel it's really Voyager's fault either.

 

I really wish there had been more Chakotay episodes. I liked his character, but given how much Beltran apparently hated Star Trek, I guess it makes sense that they didn't.

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You just have to wonder why an actor would take a job on a Star Trek series if they hated Star Trek? I mean, back in the 90s, there were acting jobs all over the place ... why accept a role on Trek if you think you are too good for it?

 

It's been years since we've watched this series and it is all kind of new to me, which is nice! It doesn't exactly feel like the first time, but it's close enough for jazz.

 

Neelix was like an Ewok with speech capabilities! I like the Teddy Bear with a commission analogy. I will say that we watched an episode from season 2 last night called "Resistance" and Neelix wasn't annoying at all. Then it occurred to us that we didn't see Kes the entire episode. (But neither was the Doctor :( ). We're in a part of the series where Tom Paris is just not being given anything to do and they are trying to boost up Chakotay's involvement in plot lines. Harry, as usual, is just "there." At least they had B'Elana off on the away mission with Tuvok and Janeway and that was quite engaging. Plus, that poor old man that Janeway was with moved me to tears several times during the episode. Yes, it was just another Delta Quadrant race in peril, being bullied by a bunch of a-holes, but it was well done and the character of the old man was fully realized and developed. It may have been the first really great episode of the series and even Beltran was selling his role in spite of his reported distaste for his character and Trek.

 

You're exacty right, AE, the entire Quadrant is full of jerks and victims with very few in between. PLUS, I don't understand how you achieve warp capability or no big deal space travel in general, and NOT have come up with either transporter or replicator technology? You'd think some of these races with their little orbital sensor arrays, training camps on far moons, etc. etc., could have put their heads to working on this sometime prior to Voyager getting there? And, really, who cares if they get their hands on Federation technology clear out there in the Delta Quadrant? Just Voyager being out there AT ALL has affected these people timelines and lives, their alliances with the downtrodden, their interaction with some of these worlds, it all has an effect. The Cazon are just going to eat EACH OTHER alive, so hand them the fork (transporter) and pass 'em the salt (replicator) and let them have at it! Janeway is looking at this all wrong IMO :laugh: !

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Honestly, I didn't really like Kes or Neelix. Kes was a rehashing of Wesley Crusher, only more annoying. Wesley at least had a mischievous side that came out once in awhile. Kes was just all pure soul, never could do any wrong, and it just got so incredibly annoying, that I was glad she left.

 

Neelix was a teddy bear with a commission. Plain and simple. He was more tolerable though because they gave him a niche on the ship. They tried to make Kes work as a sick bay nurse, but they always kept having her save the day that it just belied her character. And the Kes-Neelix relationship was horrible. I kept thinking about the original notion put forth in the pilot that Ocampans were very short lived. Neelix, being a scavenger, had been around for a long time... in essence, Neelix was a cradle-robber, bordering on pedophile. He's a creepy old dude dating a vulnerable, really young woman. Even by Ocampan standards, she was still a teenager, or college girl.

 

I didn't really notice what AE mentioned, but thinking about it, I do remember that I pretty much wound up not liking any of the other worlds that Voyager encountered. Seriously, the Federation just sucks at making friends in the Delta Quadrant, but I don't feel it's really Voyager's fault either.

 

I really wish there had been more Chakotay episodes. I liked his character, but given how much Beltran apparently hated Star Trek, I guess it makes sense that they didn't.

 

Note that Beltran didn't hate Star Trek from the beginning.

He just got tired of the so called writers and producers in the long run.

As for Kes, she was the best character of them all!

As for the relationship between Kes and neelix, it was OK in the beginning but it was obvious that they would drift apart. But the break-up should have been better handled.

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Honestly, I didn't really like Kes or Neelix. Kes was a rehashing of Wesley Crusher, only more annoying. Wesley at least had a mischievous side that came out once in awhile. Kes was just all pure soul, never could do any wrong, and it just got so incredibly annoying, that I was glad she left.

 

Neelix was a teddy bear with a commission. Plain and simple. He was more tolerable though because they gave him a niche on the ship. They tried to make Kes work as a sick bay nurse, but they always kept having her save the day that it just belied her character. And the Kes-Neelix relationship was horrible. I kept thinking about the original notion put forth in the pilot that Ocampans were very short lived. Neelix, being a scavenger, had been around for a long time... in essence, Neelix was a cradle-robber, bordering on pedophile. He's a creepy old dude dating a vulnerable, really young woman. Even by Ocampan standards, she was still a teenager, or college girl.

 

I didn't really notice what AE mentioned, but thinking about it, I do remember that I pretty much wound up not liking any of the other worlds that Voyager encountered. Seriously, the Federation just sucks at making friends in the Delta Quadrant, but I don't feel it's really Voyager's fault either.

 

I really wish there had been more Chakotay episodes. I liked his character, but given how much Beltran apparently hated Star Trek, I guess it makes sense that they didn't.

 

Note that Beltran didn't hate Star Trek from the beginning.

He just got tired of the so called writers and producers in the long run.

As for Kes, she was the best character of them all! I find it unjust to compare her with Wesley Crusher. I don't dislike Wesley but Kes was much better. She was an unique character who really personified the spirit of Star Trek and the series lost a lot when she was kicked out.

As for the relationship between Kes and Neelix, it was OK in the beginning but it was obvious that they would drift apart. But the break-up should have been better handled.

Edited by Lynx

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I think that one of the worst things about VOY was the bad writing. This series had the potential to re-energize the Star Trek franchise but fell far short due to its inept writing. For example, the Maquis/Federation tension was never full realized and after a handful of episodes their really wasn't that much of a difference between these two opposing groups. Notwithstanding the 1st season finale Learning Curve, in which there are only a handful of former Maquis whimpering about their lot in life, there just wasn't a full realization of a dynamic that could have been better realized had the writers and producers attempted to make more of this unique situation. Even, second season attempts at having former crewman Seska (now proven to be a Cardassian) still fell short after her untimely death and the unresolved question as to what happened to her child. Furthermore, it was never developed as to how Culluh reacted to finding out that he was the father of the baby or if he ever really knew? Again, the writing did nothing to flesh this out. All we are left with is a beaten Culluh snatching a baby and running to the rescue pods- never to be heard from again. Not surprising considering the writing...

 

I think that a big casualty of the writers failing this show is proven in the lack of development that Kes was seemingly a victim of. She had an interesting backstory: her species only lives 9 years, was involved with Neelix, and developed neat telekinetic abilities. She also had some good episodic moments (E.G. "Warlord") The way she was written out was just further proof of the bad writing and character development prevalent throughout the shows run, but what really takes the cake here is the horrendous episode in which she returns;subsequently vengeful and hate filled. Seriously, this is how they decide to bring her back and then get rid of her ....again? As bad as the initial departure was, her swan song was even more unthinkable and unfortunate for both fans of the show and for fans of Kes in particular.

 

The bad writing was evident in painting Janeway as being almost too nice to command a ship - she couldv'e been bettter developed and more reminiscent of another Starfleet Captain (I think we know which one). Chakotay should have been in more episodes, not just as a character that extolled the virtues of nature. Torres could have been more like the Klingon half she bragged about, but came across like an angry teenager having a hissy fit. Paris, had a cool backstory and had his moments, but alas the writers took a 'bad boy' and made him into a second rate character by season 4. Tuvok was good, but again lacked development and came across more human than even Paris. The best characters on this show: 7 of 9, The Doctor, and Neelix were involved in some of the best eps of the show, but often took a backseat to the rest of the main cast- The Doctor was consistently being berated, 7 was stuck in astrometrics, and Neelix became the ships cook...until he left the ship for a Talaxian colony a couple of eps before the Voyager found their way home. With such evidence of bad development, it becomes apparent that the only reason that VOY enjoyed seven seasons was due to a loyal fan base that was undeserved in retrospect. The worst thing about Voyager (other than its lack of writing and development ) is that it serves as a reminder for what not to do with a Star Trek series.

Edited by GhostofMajorHayes

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"bad writing", "never fully realized", "lack of writing and development', sums it up quite well.

 

I cannot remember a single character or story arc I was even remotely satisfied with the conclusion of, they always ended in

':WHAT: wtf?'

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It's funny how people see things different. Next to TOS this was my favorite even after they got rid of Kes. I loved Kes's character

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It's funny how people see things different. Next to TOS this was my favorite even after they got rid of Kes. I loved Kes's character

 

What was it about Voyager that you found likeable enough to consider it your second fave series?

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I don't know why people always trash Voyager. I liked it a lot.

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It's funny how people see things different. Next to TOS this was my favorite even after they got rid of Kes. I loved Kes's character

 

What was it about Voyager that you found likeable enough to consider it your second fave series?

 

I was able to watch most all of it from the beginning. TNG, Enterprise, DS9, were shown on Saturdays were I live and I worked Saturdays. So I never really got into say a flow with them.

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It's funny how people see things different. Next to TOS this was my favorite even after they got rid of Kes. I loved Kes's character

 

What was it about Voyager that you found likeable enough to consider it your second fave series?

 

I was able to watch most all of it from the beginning. TNG, Enterprise, DS9, were shown on Saturdays were I live and I worked Saturdays. So I never really got into say a flow with them.

 

Ok. I hear you. Where I live every trek show was re-played every saturday afternoon starting with re-runs of TOS and TNG and then progressing to the new eps of DS9 and VOY. By the time ENT rolled around this stopped. Sundays were Xena, Hercules, Kung Fu the Legend Continues and Babylon 5. I really miss those days.

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It's funny how people see things different. Next to TOS this was my favorite even after they got rid of Kes. I loved Kes's character

 

What was it about Voyager that you found likeable enough to consider it your second fave series?

 

I was able to watch most all of it from the beginning. TNG, Enterprise, DS9, were shown on Saturdays were I live and I worked Saturdays. So I never really got into say a flow with them.

 

Ok. I hear you. Where I live every trek show was re-played every saturday afternoon starting with re-runs of TOS and TNG and then progressing to the new eps of DS9 and VOY. By the time ENT rolled around this stopped. Sundays were Xena, Hercules, Kung Fu the Legend Continues and Babylon 5. I really miss those days.

 

Yes I loved Xena Oh so much.

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We are all the way up to Season 6 now and there have been some really great episodes. Voyager gets a bit of a bad rap. I think Janeway may have been the best of the captains, she certainly had the most to deal with. Her relationship with Seven of Nine is very real and engaging.

 

I think the worst thing about Voyager is the number of "main" characters and no time to focus on a fewer number. It feels like you can't get to know any of them deeply, because there are so many of them to get to know. They've totally dropped the ball at this point on Chakotay, like they just don't know what to do with him. That's probably why they hooked him up with Seven!

 

The Doctor is the best character on the show, followed by Seven. Jeri Ryan does not get enough credit for the truly remarkable acting she did on this show.

 

I measure the quality of a Star Trek show by how long it takes my husband to fall asleep during the episodes. We both sleep through about half of each of the original series eps, quite a few of the TNG, fewer of DS9, and almost none of Voyager. By that rationale, perhaps Voyager is actually my favorite Trek, although I've always sworn it was DS9! Never watched Enterprise for the silliest of reasons ... we tried the first episode or two, but just could not get past that stupid theme song. LOL!

 

(I am proud to say that I've never rewatched a single frame of those stupid "Fairhaven" episodes. I with they would stop trying to recreate "Vic's" on Voyager.)

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It's funny how people see things different. Next to TOS this was my favorite even after they got rid of Kes. I loved Kes's character

 

What was it about Voyager that you found likeable enough to consider it your second fave series?

 

I was able to watch most all of it from the beginning. TNG, Enterprise, DS9, were shown on Saturdays were I live and I worked Saturdays. So I never really got into say a flow with them.

 

Ok. I hear you. Where I live every trek show was re-played every saturday afternoon starting with re-runs of TOS and TNG and then progressing to the new eps of DS9 and VOY. By the time ENT rolled around this stopped. Sundays were Xena, Hercules, Kung Fu the Legend Continues and Babylon 5. I really miss those days.

 

Yes I loved Xena Oh so much.

 

Me too! Those were the days.

Fortunately there are DVD:s!

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Sorry Lynx, cannot agree about Kes... she just irritated me soooo much. The only time I liked her was when she came back later in the series for one episode and was the villainess. Unfortunately, she was also the heroine, but at least we finally got more dimension from her character. But I do agree the break-up with Neelix was poorly handled. That she broke up when she had an alien possessing her at the time left the sincerity and necessity of the break-up rather dubious.

 

I suppose it is a tad unfair to liken her too much to Wesley Crusher... Wesley was the embodiment of Roddenberry's monumental ego, right down to the character's first name stemming from his middle name. However, both Wes and Kes were fairly young (again, teenager/young adult by Ocampan standards) with extreme potential, constantly saving the day, could pretty much never do any wrong, and left the series to further their potential/destinies. There are some pretty striking similarities. Kes' "pure soul" character was extremely off-putting.

 

I didn't hate Voyager. I liked many of the episodes. But it is still, imo, the second weakest of the franchise series.

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I just couldn't warm up to Neelix.

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I just couldn't warm up to Neelix.

Kes didn't do much for me either.

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I just couldn't warm up to Neelix.

Kes didn't do much for me either.

Agreed. I know people who loved her, but I can only think of 1-2 eps. that featured her that I liked.

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