Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Voyager recruit

The U.S.S. Kelvin and crew-more?

20 posts in this topic

After the few minutes we saw of them in the new film, do you find yourself 'fascinated' by this precursor to the new Enterprise...and perhaps hoping for a book series? Or, maybe even some fan-fic on your own....?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What I don't get about the Kelvin is why they had phasers that were individually manned with people in the gun turrets. They didn't have that on ENT or in TOS.

I don't think that was the case. I believe those pulse phaser turrets were controlled from the bridge like every Federation starship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really? I didn't know that!I DID see the movie, ya bet-and I tried to absorb it all...there was a lot going on in those first minutes....in any case, I missed that, Shoot-pardon the pun! To your question...duh. Toughie.There's one to ask one of the writers at a con. Someone should do that! Maybe increases coverage of fire in a given zone? No military strategist here....accomplishes, if more crudely-again, older-tech-what modern phasers do with strips positioned hither and yon? Hey, 'least i'm trying,eh?....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What I don't get about the Kelvin is why they had phasers that were individually manned with people in the gun turrets. They didn't have that on ENT or in TOS.

I don't think that was the case. I believe those pulse phaser turrets were controlled from the bridge like every Federation starship.

It would make more sense, in a way, right...to my thread topic itself, I do find myself interested in these people. George is definitely a hero...in Star Trek Magazine, Chris Hemsworth, in coming uo with a vision for his character's persona, said he saw him as being this classic sort of hero,if I may roughly quote...he has these high moral values..is very idealistic;so, it's no suprise, then, he could, or would make the hard decisions-it's what an exec may be called upon to do, as Captain Robau, well...I think that he is a great example to younger men,and women, certainly after what occurs in the opening sequence.Of course, his choices affect also his son-significantly;we don't get direct answer as to how he feels about his father..but one can speculate-however, I don't see it as the same exactly, as the George Kirk of the novels-though some of the ideas therein were seeds for the writers of TREKXI....I would like seeing previous adventures of the Kelvin in a book series...I may well do some writing there myself. Faran Tahir sees his char as being a real veteran-of both combat, and peaceful negotation; he's been there on the fringe for a long while, has the experience, and is a prototype of Jim kIRK...It would also be fascinating, to see Winona Kirk, not as a woman on a farm-however 'rural' the Kirks truly were in the books-and someplace Jim could indeed go...but being on a starship, assumedly, carving out a long-term life there with her husband. I'd go so far, as to speculate that she was also a career officer...in the 24th, a Galaxy-class had dual-working couples...well, just some thoughts, about this interesting crew of Trekpast. I was glad to see them, particularly the Kirks.... Edited by Voyager recruit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh,so that's what that was....hm.Any more thoughts on the turrets, then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure that the person that was knocked into space was inside the turret. Though the only place in Star Trek that I can recall seeing a "turret" like that was on DS9 which of course was cardassian in design.

 

When seeing things like this though keep in mind that Abrams had little regard for things that were "Star Trek" design or "tradition". That's my take on it anyway. Same with the writers, I say a quote from one of the writers where he was being questioned about the way time travel has always been regarded in Star Trek as opposed to this new way that they've written it and his remark came across as a tad arrogant to me. Something along the lines of "this is how it is, at least as long as I have anything to do with Star Trek this is how it'll be". In other words, "it's his way so suck it up and move on".

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There was definitely a turret, and that person definitely left the ship via the turret. He may have been in the cooridor and got sucked out through the turret.

It looks to me that she's in a corridor and yes, she hits the turret outside the ship for sure. Was she "in" the turret though? I don't think she was but they used such fast cuts in that part of the movie and this recording isn't high quality to be able to tell but the turrets outside on the ship caught my attention the first time I saw them since we never see phaser turrets in any other incarnation of Federation design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There was definitely a turret, and that person definitely left the ship via the turret. He may have been in the cooridor and got sucked out through the turret.

It looks to me that she's in a corridor and yes, she hits the turret outside the ship for sure. Was she "in" the turret though? I don't think she was but they used such fast cuts in that part of the movie and this recording isn't high quality to be able to tell but the turrets outside on the ship caught my attention the first time I saw them since we never see phaser turrets in any other incarnation of Federation design.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Phase...ShockwaveII.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The turrets were fairly in-keeping with canon. They were similar to the phasers of Enterprise and they pulsed in a manner similar to the phasers of the ship in TOS.

 

The girl that was blown out into space was blown out simply because the hull was ruptured and the corridor she was in was exposed to the vacuum of space...there's no mystery. If you want proof that no one was actually in any of the turrets, recall that Captain [George] Kirk was the ONLY person left on the ship once he ordered the evacuation and everyone piled out in the shuttles. He was controlling all weapons from the bridge both manually and via automation to keep Nero's attack from destroying the shuttles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Irrelevant. That is a shot of the NX-01 Enterprise, not the Kelvin which hadn't even been designed yet.

 

I saw the video again, and noticed the phaser was firing just before she got sucked out. It looks like she was sucked out through the turret but that would mean the machinery, crystals, lenses, etc. producing the phaser beam would be in the way. It is more likely she was sucked out through a different breech behind the turret (relative to the camera shot).

 

That doesn't mean the turrets *aren't* manned. I don't think Kirk had given the evacuation order yet. However, even if he had, that doesn't mean all ship personnel can leave with equal ease.

 

The Kelvin had a lot of such turrets and had a lot more firepower (in terms of how many phasers could be fired at once, not the strength of the phasers) than other ships we have seen. As far as we know Starfleet hadn't experimented with full automation until the M5 project and even Scotty was still working the bugs out in TSFS. It seems likely to me that at least some of the turrets would have to be maned if the goal is maximum firepower. The targeting computers of the time wouldn't be fast enough to keep all turrets engaged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

That's not a turret, that's a cannon (specifically a phase cannon). A turret is an enclosure that contains guns (or cannons) and in most cases their crews that man them. Not all turrets have to contain a turret crew, some turrets on WWII planes were small and were operated by a gunner inside the plane (I'm specifically thinking of the B-29).

 

What you're showing in the link above would be more akin to the cannons being brought out on a Galleon to prepare for battle.

 

I honestly can't think of any Federation ship that has turrets. DS9 had turrets but that's Cardassian in design. I could be mistaken or just forgetting a specific Federation ship that had turrets, but I can't think of any.

 

The Kelvin had a lot of such turrets and had a lot more firepower (in terms of how many phasers could be fired at once, not the strength of the phasers) than other ships we have seen. As far as we know Starfleet hadn't experimented with full automation until the M5 project and even Scotty was still working the bugs out in TSFS. It seems likely to me that at least some of the turrets would have to be maned if the goal is maximum firepower. The targeting computers of the time wouldn't be fast enough to keep all turrets engaged.

 

What came to my mind after reading this (the part about automation) was "Balance of Terror", the specific sequence I'm thinking of is when Kirk is calling down to Phaser control to fire but they've all been overcome by a gas leak of some sort and can't fire, so there didn't seem to be any automation in the weapons systems in TOS. There was the requirement for a crewman to actually take steps to fire the weapons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw the film again Thursday, and as I believe Van Roy Ref'd, the cuts of the action were coming quick, but it seemed to me at least, that the woman was pulled out through what looked-for that fleeting second-from a corridor....and, I think, yes, in the near-vicimity of a phaser emplacement, or turret, to use the term being bandied about herein...as to whether that's germaine to the question of whether or not Kelvin was using them..who knows? It wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility, to have manned stations-like the TOS Enterprise as in 'Balance'...(Tilll then we just thought, Sulu hits a control, and ZING!), which I rather preferred on the ship, but, comparing it to a naval vessel of gunship status, size-wise, well, I guess that would not be so 'illogical'....and make sense. Just a thought, but, given the 'unconventional' take for J.J. and his crew for this new Trek outing, it wouldn't necessarily be a suprise-no criticism thus intended-to hear that the defenses were so outlaid with manned turrets....precursors to a more modernized system, certainly, and surely done for the new 1701....BTW, and not to crtique, or 'censor' this train of thought-post as ye like, gang no problem-but, I do hope some of you might express some thoughts re the main question, at a later point, eh? Nice, though, to keep my thread alive! (Hope it will be so..)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

That's not a turret, that's a cannon (specifically a phase cannon). A turret is an enclosure that contains guns (or cannons) and in most cases their crews that man them. Not all turrets have to contain a turret crew, some turrets on WWII planes were small and were operated by a gunner inside the plane (I'm specifically thinking of the B-29).

 

What you're showing in the link above would be more akin to the cannons being brought out on a Galleon to prepare for battle.

 

I honestly can't think of any Federation ship that has turrets. DS9 had turrets but that's Cardassian in design. I could be mistaken or just forgetting a specific Federation ship that had turrets, but I can't think of any.

 

From the article:

 

The cannons of NX class starships were mounted on retractable turrets which extended from the ship's hull when deployed and rotated as they were being targeted.

 

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Phase_cannon

 

And from wikipedia:

A gun turret is a device that protects the crew or mechanism of a projectile firing weapon and at the same time lets the weapon be aimed and fired in many directions.

 

A turret is a rotating weapon platform.

 

Based on that, I do think both the phase cannons of Enterprise and the phaser turrets (they are referred to as such as a tie-in website, not exactly canon but I haven't seen a different name for them) of the Kelvin qualify as turrets. Even if they are unmanned (which in both cases, I believe they are), they are still capable of rotation, which seems to be the key determinate. This seems to be the way Starfleet went before the invention of the phaser array (or the phaser bank we see on later 23th century vessels, we never really get a fantastic look at them).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Memory Alpha page for the Kelvin crew is fairly lacking: USS Kelvin personnel.

Well, not surprising, considering the ship is only seen for roughly 10 minutes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

That's not a turret, that's a cannon (specifically a phase cannon). A turret is an enclosure that contains guns (or cannons) and in most cases their crews that man them. Not all turrets have to contain a turret crew, some turrets on WWII planes were small and were operated by a gunner inside the plane (I'm specifically thinking of the B-29).

 

What you're showing in the link above would be more akin to the cannons being brought out on a Galleon to prepare for battle.

 

I honestly can't think of any Federation ship that has turrets. DS9 had turrets but that's Cardassian in design. I could be mistaken or just forgetting a specific Federation ship that had turrets, but I can't think of any.

 

From the article:

 

The cannons of NX class starships were mounted on retractable turrets which extended from the ship's hull when deployed and rotated as they were being targeted.

 

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Phase_cannon

 

And from wikipedia:

A gun turret is a device that protects the crew or mechanism of a projectile firing weapon and at the same time lets the weapon be aimed and fired in many directions.

 

A turret is a rotating weapon platform.

 

Based on that, I do think both the phase cannons of Enterprise and the phaser turrets (they are referred to as such as a tie-in website, not exactly canon but I haven't seen a different name for them) of the Kelvin qualify as turrets. Even if they are unmanned (which in both cases, I believe they are), they are still capable of rotation, which seems to be the key determinate. This seems to be the way Starfleet went before the invention of the phaser array (or the phaser bank we see on later 23th century vessels, we never really get a fantastic look at them).

It's not what I consider a gun turret, it's a retractable cannon just as the cannons on an ancient Galleon are retractable cannons. As it says at the bottom the word turret comes from the French toroete "diminutive of tor, tower". The Phase cannons aren't a tower.

 

Either way though the turrets didn't bother me all that much, I took notice of them because we've never seen true gun turrets on Starfleet ships before, and if you want to classify the phase cannons as turrets then we've never seen them on TOS era or later ships before.

 

I was a bit disappointed in the design of the ships (more the inside than the outsides) but honestly it wasn't THAT big of a deal to me. They had redesigned the sets before for the movies, which I didn't care for aesthetically either but oh well.

 

http://www.answers.com/topic/turret

 

turret

 

A small tower or tower-shaped projection on a building.

 

A low, heavily armored structure, usually rotating horizontally, containing mounted guns and their gunners or crew, as on a warship or tank.

A domelike gunner's enclosure projecting from the fuselage of a combat aircraft.

A tall wooden structure mounted on wheels and used in ancient warfare by besiegers to scale the walls of an enemy fortress.

An attachment for a lathe consisting of a rotating cylindrical block holding various cutting tools.

A rotating device holding various lenses, as for a microscope, allowing easy switching from one lens to another.

 

[Middle English turet, from Old French torete, diminutive of tor, tower. See tower.]

 

1805970960_8cde030470.jpg

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0