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headborg

Headborg's Star Trek XI- Review & Pro's & Con's

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I have returned.

 

First I got to say..... WOW!

 

I was very surprised and relieved when seeing this long awaited "rebirth" of Star Trek.

 

I'd give it an 8 out of 10 thumbs-up overall( from anyone who's all thumbs). There are several "issues" however. But, generally I was very entertained. It's a very good movie overall. J.J. Abrams is an outstanding movie director/producer. The Casting was also excellent as well. The good points I believe strongly out weight the negatives with this re-screening of (TOS). So, now I'll begin from the first frame.

 

 

 

Click for Spoiler:

The opening: Wow! the Humanity captured with the birth of J.T. Kirk minutes before the death of his father. And the whole reset of an "alternate reality" James T. Kirk. I was almost in tears.. heck, now that I think of it... I was in tears.. What a great start for a great movie. The external design of U.S.S. Kelvin was 100% meeting with my "approval" and my expectations that the producer would stick with a "classic" look/feel/design of this era starship. lt's too bad- they later got all carried away and made "Enterprise NCC-1701" too sexy, too graceful- heck Pike even claims it's the Star Fleet's "newest Flag Ship"-- Enterprise NCC-1701 wasn't the "flagship" of star fleet until AFTER Kirk's accomplishments. This is a major plot mistake(IMO) just like the Enterprise NX-01- no Fleet Adminal is going to throw the "keys" to their newest most advanced starship to a crew of "rookies" and a rookie Captain and say-- take 'er for a spin! But, I digress. Back to the Beginning.

 

Some one help me here--- Captain James T. Kirk was born in Iowa? per Star Trek Canon? Not on a medical transport escaping the destruction of Star Ship X?

Didn't James T. Kirk have an Older brother named-- Sam? Where was he? in this Movie?

Wasn't Kirk's Dad suppose to be an Iowa Farmer? not a Star Fleet officer?( This point might be open- I don't recall any Canon reference as to What Kirk's Dad was or not. This is the main(IMO-- Flaw in the "Alternate Time line" plot-- the timeline isn't altered until (1) the destruction of Kirk's Father & that Ship( It's crew & future history)

I accept the Altered Time line plot ideal afterward. But since "time" was unaffected prior to this-- certain things must still be respective of TOS like the existence of an "older brother".

 

 

Click for Spoiler:

Ok, on with the critique-

 

the giant Star Fleet Insignia ( Monolith) Title floating in Space.....ahhhh NO. I would have preferred something different. It was simply too--hmmm, reminded me of 2001: A Space Odyssey

p.s. what happened to the spell check feature?

Now that I really start to think about it.. was this a "tongue-in-cheek" reference to star trek fans to bow down and worship the Star Trek Monolith-- "like the monkeys & pre-historic cave men in the opening of 2001?

 

Casting:

 

I thought the casting for this movie was excellent except the following:

 

Captain Christopher Pike: Although Bruce Greenwood did an outstanding job portraying the Character-- he's doesn't remotely resemble Jeffery Hunter( original Pike )-- I really wish Ray Liotta could have been obtained/enticed to play this part.

 

Spock: Zackary Quinto was/ is Spock. The resemblance is uncanny. His skill as an actor is excellent. He nailed it. But....

 

unfortunately from the very beginning.. I kept seeing .... Syler ( Heroes-NBC ) I was wondering if he'd point a finger at someone's forehead and cut open their head. A couple times, you could even see the evil grin.

Click for Spoiler:

Which was one detracting point from getting into this new Spock Character- the plot concept of this new Spock NOT repressing all emotion but sometimes embracing it-- The change they made where-as Spock doesn't attend the Vulcan Science Academy, but chooses instead to attend Star Fleet, I didn't like that change. But it was "well written" and a nice twist.

I don't know if this new formula is in the best interest of our children. It does a nice job of making STAR TREK appeal to the 18-25 age audience. But what message does it send to our children when they( the producers/writers) re-invent Star Fleet Acadamy into a type of "French Foreign Legion" where all the "rejects, rebels, convicts( "the judge said hard time in prision or join Star Fleet" More importantly, the message sent by this new Kirk Character-- attending Star Fleet Acadamy for just 3 years- then suddenly becomes Captain of Star Ship Enterprise! Without the hard-work of raising through the ranks to command a starship. Big have big problems with all that that.

 

James T. Kirk ( Chris Pine )

 

I really didn't see much resemblance in the beginning- but that was ok as his character would have been altered due to growing up without a bio-dad living with perhaps several step dads. ( Which I think this was done to appeal to more 18-22 year old's( today's generation of movie goers who can better "relate" to this).

Click for Spoiler:

He nailed the Character in the Ice cave when meeting Spock(old)for the first time...excellent "rip" of William Shatner's Movie Era Kirk! That's were he was definately IN. And again, at the end with his "cocky" manor setting in the Captain's Chair.

And the scene with him and Spock turning from the view screen after he "offers assistance" to Nero.

 

Pavel Chekov:

 

Played by Anton Yelchin.

 

No offence intended-- but he's no Chekov.. He just didn't do it for me.

 

All the other cast members really did an outstanding job.

 

I was especially pleased with : Karl Urban ( "Bones" ) he really nailed the character and I really liked finally discovering where the nickname of "Bones" came from!

Edited by headborg

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p.s. what happened to the spell check feature?

 

It's still here, when you write a post look for this button in the upper right corner of the posting box (above the area where you type your post). spellcheck.gif

 

This spell check feature does require that you download it, but it's free and once it's installed it will work not only on STF but anywhere around the internet as well. At least it's part of my Internet Explorer anyway.

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p.s. what happened to the spell check feature?

 

It's still here, when you write a post look for this button in the upper right corner of the posting box (above the area where you type your post). spellcheck.gif

 

This spell check feature does require that you download it, but it's free and once it's installed it will work not only on STF but anywhere around the internet as well. At least it's part of my Internet Explorer anyway.

 

 

Hmmm, that button is missing on my interface, I'm using firefox.

 

The edit feature disappears after 24hrs?

 

I made a mistake above-- original Spock never attended Vulcan Science Academy- so there's no canon change there.

 

But thanks for letting me know.... where do you download it from? maybe that's why it's missing.

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Moving along...

 

Click for Spoiler:

Ok, J. T. Kirk grows up a Rebel without his biological father there. I guess, that's an ok twist- the original didn't deal very much about that in any of Kirk's "back-story"-- except the missing older brother Sam? But that's just 1 episode of TOS. Still not a major problem IMO. Guess the writers wanted a James Dean/ Tom Cruise(Top Gun) type to make this younger Kirk more appealing to the younger audiences.... OK.

 

Click for Spoiler:

Starships being built in the middle of Iowa Cornfields-- I got to first say- the very first "trailers" for this movie were very misleading-- with the scenes of NCC-1701 under construction... was cool/ the mis-direction was nice too. And the visual of the building of starships on the surface was nice... but, can't really be explained considering we saw Enterprise NX-01 being built in orbit and that was like how many years prior to conception of the Federation? And also, the idea that anyone would have a working 1960's(1963) Corvette that's 300 years old-- very hard to believe it wouldn't have been in a Museum.

 

Click for Spoiler:

The more I think about this movie, the more angry I get..

 

Kirk dropping 1 year of the Acadamy and then skipping the ranks of Ensign, Lt, Lt.Commander, Commander and becoming Captain of Enterprise is just too much... gone is Kirks whole service aboard the Republic, and Farragut. It really makes Star Fleet look like a joke. Yes, nice to quickly put all the major characters together...but that was reduculous.

Entertaining yes.. but really.

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headborg wrote:

 

"Starships being built in the middle of Iowa Cornfields-- I got to first say- the very first "trailers" for this movie were very misleading-- with the scenes of NCC-1701 under construction... was cool/ the mis-direction was nice too. And the visual of the building of starships on the surface was nice... but, can't really be explained considering we saw Enterprise NX-01 being built in orbit and that was like how many years prior to conception of the Federation? And also, the idea that anyone would have a working 1960's(1963) Corvette that's 300 years old-- very hard to believe it wouldn't have been in a Museum."

 

First off, I don't know why you had to use the spoiler feature for this since everything he describes comes straight from the trailers The one exception is the ship being assembled in Iowa but that is hardly a critical plot point.

 

There are some explanations however.

 

We saw the ship being built at least partially on the ground, and then completely operational in space. That still leaves a large gap for our imaginations. Perhaps they built the basic infrastructure on the ground, since it is easier to build in real gravity, and then tractor-beamed the still-not-complete ship into space while it was still light enough to do. That is as good an explanation as any.

 

And for all we know Kirk might have stoles that car from a museum anyway.

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Click for Spoiler:

Some one help me here--- Captain James T. Kirk was born in Iowa? per Star Trek Canon? Not on a medical transport escaping the destruction of Star Ship X?

Didn't James T. Kirk have an Older brother named-- Sam? Where was he? in this Movie?

Wasn't Kirk's Dad suppose to be an Iowa Farmer? not a Star Fleet officer?( This point might be open- I don't recall any Canon reference as to What Kirk's Dad was or not. This is the main(IMO-- Flaw in the "Alternate Time line" plot-- the timeline isn't altered until (1) the destruction of Kirk's Father & that Ship( It's crew & future history)

I accept the Altered Time line plot ideal afterward. But since "time" was unaffected prior to this-- certain things must still be respective of TOS like the existence of an "older brother".

 

Click for Spoiler:

We've discussed it elsewhere but there was no canon proof that Kirk was born in Iowa. He merely says he was from Iowa, which allows for the possibility that we was born on the Kelvin/Medical Shuttle 37 (he wouldn't have been born on the shuttle if the Narada hadn't come back in time). Since the Kelvin was in deep space, it's unlikely Kirk was born in Iowa in the prime timeline anyway. So, in all likelihood, Kirk was born on the U.S.S. Kelvin in the prime timeline.

 

As for George Kirk, we never had any canon that suggested what his job was...'til now. George Kirk was first officer of the U.S.S. Kelvin.

 

As for George Samuel Kirk, they did cast an actor in the role and he does appear in the film (but not as George Samuel Kirk). The majority of his scenes were cut, so they decided to redub the corvette scene so that young Kirk said "Johnny". The actor is older than the young Kirk actor, so they had planned to make him the older brother. As for where he was, I think it can be assumed he was not on the Kelvin, and was likely staying with family elsewhere.

 

 

 

Click for Spoiler:

I don't know if this new formula is in the best interest of our children. It does a nice job of making STAR TREK appeal to the 18-25 age audience. But what message does it send to our children when they( the producers/writers) re-invent Star Fleet Acadamy into a type of "French Foreign Legion" where all the "rejects, rebels, convicts( "the judge said hard time in prision or join Star Fleet" More importantly, the message sent by this new Kirk Character-- attending Star Fleet Acadamy for just 3 years- then suddenly becomes Captain of Star Ship Enterprise! Without the hard-work of raising through the ranks to command a starship. Big have big problems with all that that.

 

Click for Spoiler:

Uh, don't know where you're getting this whole "French Foreign Legion" thing. Kirk is the only character who could possibly be considered a reject or rebel (and there's nothing in the movie about convicts) and Pike only wants him because he's seen his aptitude test (so they won't just take anyone) and because he knew Kirk's father and saw the same instincts in Kirk.

 

As for his rapid rise, there are some extenuating circumstances. I mean, Starfleet just lost seven ships, full of both cadets and qualified officers (also, a number of Enterprise crew members including the Chief Engineer and the Chief Medical Officer), so a lot of people are going to have their careers accelerated. Let's also not forget that Kirk did just save Earth, and the entire Federation.

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I really liked finally discovering where the nickname of "Bones" came from!

 

The way it came about in the movie is not why McCoy was called Bones in TOS. The term "sawbones" was/is a nickname for a doctor or surgeon and Kirk shortened it to "Bones" as a nickname for McCoy.

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As ref'd in a spoiler by headborg, that is, Samuel Kirk, he was seen for the first time in 'Operation:Annihilate!" in TOS....or his back, as he lay deceased, from an attack by the 'flying neural parasites' which attacked Deneva, where he, wife Aurelan, and son Peter lived. Bill Shatner played the seconds-long 'part'....in the TOS ep, '' What Are Little Girls Made Of?'', it's ref'd ''George Samuel Kirk'' by Jim's duplicate. 'only you call him Sam'' and that said copy goes on-to prove his perfect duplication of memory-that Sam saw him off on this mission(presumably the five-year launch) and that he wanted a transfer to Earth Colony Two Research Station. It's also ref'd that Sam has three sons. This ep comes before ''Annihilate''. George Kirk senior was never mentioned anywhere in TOS. However, the novels ''Final Frontier'' (Not the film adaptation) , and ''Best Destiny'' for ex feature him-and his struggles in his relationship with a pre-teen or early teenage Jim Kirk, who has gotten himself into hot water, and resents his father, who has spent so much time away from their Iowa home, as a Starfleet security officer. ''Frontier'' has George Kirk as a pressed-into-service temp exec of the new Enterprise-commanded by Robert April(who I hear, and if true, will be played one day by a certain famed ST actor....) who was an initial candidate-name for 1701's actual skipper by Gene. These two books feature George Kirk heavily-and yes, the content of this tome is VERY non-canon...but still, an interesting adventure...'''Destiny'' was as I have read a title that inspired Orci and Kurtzman in their ideas about young Jim. Therein, the troubled teen-quite a lot younger than the what, mid-twenties, 'late-bloomer' cadet in the new film, goes on a little jaunt with his Dad-very reluctantly-and Robert April-only to find himself having to grow up very quickly..and we get to see some of the traits, which like Chris Pike, his predecessor(so far in the books and TAS) saw in this troubled lad....''He has a bit of the dirt in him'' April tells George, admiringly...the grit, and determination we see Chris Pine's Jim show in taking on this huge challenge...who doesn't belive in the no-win scenario.Like him there, younger Jim takes on a villain in yes, a big ship..and beats him. Okay, that's my 'little' treatise on the Family Kirk...and oh, 'Winona', Jim's mother is purely a novel reference..but popularly accepted, to be sure....

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Click for Spoiler:

Some one help me here--- Captain James T. Kirk was born in Iowa? per Star Trek Canon? Not on a medical transport escaping the destruction of Star Ship X?

Didn't James T. Kirk have an Older brother named-- Sam? Where was he? in this Movie?

Wasn't Kirk's Dad suppose to be an Iowa Farmer? not a Star Fleet officer?( This point might be open- I don't recall any Canon reference as to What Kirk's Dad was or not. This is the main(IMO-- Flaw in the "Alternate Time line" plot-- the timeline isn't altered until (1) the destruction of Kirk's Father & that Ship( It's crew & future history)

I accept the Altered Time line plot ideal afterward. But since "time" was unaffected prior to this-- certain things must still be respective of TOS like the existence of an "older brother".

 

Click for Spoiler:

We've discussed it elsewhere but there was no canon proof that Kirk was born in Iowa. He merely says he was from Iowa, which allows for the possibility that He was born on the Kelvin/Medical Shuttle 37 (he wouldn't have been born on the shuttle if the Narada hadn't come back in time). Since the Kelvin was in deep space, it's unlikely Kirk was born in Iowa in the prime timeline anyway. So, in all likelihood, Kirk was born on the U.S.S. Kelvin in the prime timeline.

 

As for George Kirk, we never had any canon that suggested what his job was...'til now. George Kirk was first officer of the U.S.S. Kelvin.

 

As for George Samuel Kirk, they did cast an actor in the role and he does appear in the film (but not as George Samuel Kirk). The majority of his scenes were cut, so they decided to redub the corvette scene so that young Kirk said "Johnny". The actor is older than the young Kirk actor, so they had planned to make him the older brother. As for where he was, I think it can be assumed he was not on the Kelvin, and was likely staying with family elsewhere.

 

 

 

Click for Spoiler:

I don't know if this new formula is in the best interest of our children. It does a nice job of making STAR TREK appeal to the 18-25 age audience. But what message does it send to our children when they( the producers/writers) re-invent Star Fleet Acadamy into a type of "French Foreign Legion" where all the "rejects, rebels, convicts( "the judge said hard time in prision or join Star Fleet" More importantly, the message sent by this new Kirk Character-- attending Star Fleet Acadamy for just 3 years- then suddenly becomes Captain of Star Ship Enterprise! Without the hard-work of raising through the ranks to command a starship. Big have big problems with all that that.

 

Click for Spoiler:

Uh, don't know where you're getting this whole "French Foreign Legion" thing. Kirk is the only character who could possibly be considered a reject or rebel (and there's nothing in the movie about convicts) and Pike only wants him because he's seen his aptitude test (so they won't just take anyone) and because he knew Kirk's father and saw the same instincts in Kirk.

 

As for his rapid rise, there are some extenuating circumstances. I mean, Starfleet just lost seven ships, full of both cadets and qualified officers (also, a number of Enterprise crew members including the Chief Engineer and the Chief Medical Officer), so a lot of people are going to have their careers accelerated. Let's also not forget that Kirk did just save Earth, and the entire Federation.

 

That's interesting that Kirk's big brother Sam was originally suppose to be in this movie but got his scenes cut and left on the editing room floor-- were did you find this information? I'd like to read all about that.

 

I made the connection/comparison to the "French Foreign Legion" because

Click for Spoiler:

1) Jim Kirk getting into trouble and looking like his future (on Earth/Iowa) as Pike pointed out-- he'd probably be the only Genius In Jail/Prison and that Pike challenged him to do better than his father! This all too is an alteration to TOS canon-- In "The Managerie" part 1 & 2 Kirk claimed to have never meet Pike in Person but was aware of his Starfleet Service record. The original Kirk's

"personal hero" was Fleet Captain Garth- "who's exploits are still required reading at the Acadamy"( Whom Gods Destory ) one of his most influential professors is Historian John Gill ( Where is he in the movie ) and where is his buddy-- Gary Mitchell ?

2) "Bones" states that his wife got everything in the divorce- leaving him with just his "Bones"- and had no place to go- so he joined Star Fleet.

(3) Spock chooses Star Fleet because his own race practices "species discrimination" and considers his "human half" a "handicap"-- so instead of attending the Vulcan "ivy league" he chooses to attend the lowly "Star Fleet Acadamy" (UC-Berkeley-- 24th Century) instead.

It's based on the French Foreign Legion's history of being where mis-fits, convicts,

homeless out-casts make up their ranks.

 

I understand there are "extenuating circumstances"-- but at the most these cedets might get commendations( Medals) Points in there Service record, maybe graduate the Acadamy a year early, as for Kirk-- maybe skip the rank of Ensign and go straight to Lt. or even Lt. Commander? but straight to the big chair? No-- little too "EASY"

 

Instead of the ending we got-- wouldn't it have been more realistic to see something like above-- and have Kirk promise that when he did get his own command-- he'd request all the "gang"- or put the "band back together'-- then Spock would have had an interesting few lines-- and we could have watched Captain Pike set off toward Talos Star system with a female #1( new First Officer ), Spock could be Science Officer and we'd have a great 'set up' for a next movie-- Lt. Kirk on the Republic or maybe Farrugut. And Spock(Prime) working behind the scenes to steer all these characters/individuals back together again. Since Spock (Original) still has the knowledge of how to "fly around the sun" and take the Enterprise back in time--- Vulcan can be saved the same way the whales were saved in (Voyage Home)-- Just go back in time-- and beat Nero to Vulcan and "undo" what was done. See-- here's more Plot for 2nd Movie.

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That's interesting that Kirk's big brother Sam was originally suppose to be in this movie but got his scenes cut and left on the editing room floor-- were did you find this information? I'd like to read all about that.

 

This is the best I can do in terms of a source:

 

http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/fun-stuff-...-movie-credits/

 

You have to scroll down to find it. Spencer Daniels was cast as George Samuel Kirk, but since he's only in the one scene now, they must have decided to drop the reference to him being Jim's brother, just for the sake of simplicity. The point is, they intended to include George Samuel Kirk.

 

I made the connection/comparison to the "French Foreign Legion" because

Click for Spoiler:

1) Jim Kirk getting into trouble and looking like his future (on Earth/Iowa) as Pike pointed out-- he'd probably be the only Genius In Jail/Prison and that Pike challenged him to do better than his father! This all too is an alteration to TOS canon-- In "The Managerie" part 1 & 2 Kirk claimed to have never meet Pike in Person but was aware of his Starfleet Service record. The original Kirk's

"personal hero" was Fleet Captain Garth- "who's exploits are still required reading at the Acadamy"( Whom Gods Destory ) one of his most influential professors is Historian John Gill ( Where is he in the movie ) and where is his buddy-- Gary Mitchell ?

2) "Bones" states that his wife got everything in the divorce- leaving him with just his "Bones"- and had no place to go- so he joined Star Fleet.

(3) Spock chooses Star Fleet because his own race practices "species discrimination" and considers his "human half" a "handicap"-- so instead of attending the Vulcan "ivy league" he chooses to attend the lowly "Star Fleet Acadamy" (UC-Berkeley-- 24th Century) instead.

It's based on the French Foreign Legion's history of being where mis-fits, convicts,

homeless out-casts make up their ranks.

But it's not as if these guys just walked into Starfleet. They obviously had to past aptitude tests. Kirk and Spock are geniuses and McCoy is a doctor at that point. Kirk was a bit of a misfit because he was a genius who liked to waste his time in bars, but he was still a genius whose father was a hero. Pike wouldn't have given him the time of the day if he was anyone else.

Also, keep in mind that Kirk is the only one whose entrance to the Academy has changed, presumably. Spock made that same decision in the prime timeline and McCoy's story is based on an unproduced script (which eventually became The Way to Eden). Technically that and D.C. Fontana's intention are not canon, but the idea was out there and they decided to use it and make it canon (it likely occurred in the prime timeline, but we can't be sure). So really, this isn't so much a change to Starfleet as it is a change to Kirk's life.

 

As for the other points, it's an alternate timeline. Following the Narada's incursion to the past, all the previous canon need not be adhered to (that is everything we believe occurred after that point) at least anything that could conceivably be impacted by the incursion, which really is any number of things). Kirk can meet Pike but he doesn't have to meet John Gill or Gary Mitchell. His time at the Academy is later than it should have been.

 

I understand there are "extenuating circumstances"-- but at the most these cedets might get commendations( Medals) Points in there Service record, maybe graduate the Acadamy a year early, as for Kirk-- maybe skip the rank of Ensign and go straight to Lt. or even Lt. Commander? but straight to the big chair? No-- little too "EASY"

 

Instead of the ending we got-- wouldn't it have been more realistic to see something like above-- and have Kirk promise that when he did get his own command-- he'd request all the "gang"- or put the "band back together'-- then Spock would have had an interesting few lines-- and we could have watched Captain Pike set off toward Talos Star system with a female #1( new First Officer ), Spock could be Science Officer and we'd have a great 'set up' for a next movie-- Lt. Kirk on the Republic or maybe Farrugut. And Spock(Prime) working behind the scenes to steer all these characters/individuals back together again. Since Spock (Original) still has the knowledge of how to "fly around the sun" and take the Enterprise back in time--- Vulcan can be saved the same way the whales were saved in (Voyage Home)-- Just go back in time-- and beat Nero to Vulcan and "undo" what was done. See-- here's more Plot for 2nd Movie.

 

His rise is a little rapid, I will grant that but from a film making perspective, the general public is going to have zero interest in watching a Lt. Kirk/Pike in command of the Enterprise movie after having watched Kirk take command and save the day in the first movie. More than anything this movie is about getting all the familiar characters in the places we know best and creating the ability to tell new stories with the franchises most popular characters. This is exactly what the franchise needed.

 

As for trying to save Vulcan via time travel, its not gonna happen, especially as the filmmakers have used the quantum theory of time travel. Attempting to travel back to save Vulcan would result in another alternate timeline where you could save Vulcan, but it wouldn't be the Vulcan of the original alternate timeline. It'd just be too messy. Plus the destruction of Vulcan is a powerful symbol which establishes that this is a totally new timeline.

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Well now I've just seen Star Trek for the 3rd time-- now at a drive-in!( long story) double feature.

 

Wasn't that 2nd and final monster that chases Jim on Delta Vega( relocated to near Vulcan..Ha..ha) actually the same as the Cloverfield Movie Monster?

 

Sure looks like the same beast -- recycled from J.J. Abrams previous movie.

 

And if Delta Vega was that close to Vulcan ( Size of a Basketball- in the Sky( Spock pictured witnessing the distruction of his homeworld) that would make Delta Vega a Moon of Vulcan.

 

And if the Red Matter that creates a black hole that took care of the super-nova and distroyed Romulas & later used to distroy Vulcan-- how could also have been a 'worm hole' which Nero & Spock were able to pass thru? and why did the "black hole" then seal itself and disapear after doing it's "job"-- they don't generally do that in the "real" universe.

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I think what it really boils down to is: can you revive a franchise with just box office Movies.. like 2 hours at a whack.. 1 new movie every year. So what's really important is exactly what the actors contracts state? Are they bound to a 1, 2, 3, or 4 Movie deal? Are they free to say-- oh, No thanks-- done that- I'm moving on? Are they obligated to move now to the "small screen"( TV ) and locked into a new series?

 

If the answer is No to all the above-- then this was just a "milking of the cash cow" once again. And there's no real revival at all.

 

Just another bomb dropped on Die hard Trek fans whom have created an entire--- alt reality of Star Trek and take seriously( perhaps TOO seriously ) Star Trek Canon, and respect the continuity of the entire optimistic futuristic vision created by countless writers & contributors over these last 40 years of Trek History.

 

If these new cast members arn't "on board" or decide they want more $$$$ couple extra digits to continue in these roles-- we the fans will just have to get used to more and more "different" recycled Trek. Given't the nature of Hollywood and the Entertainment industry-- actors seldom go from big screen to small screen.

And I really don't see how a Trek revival is possible without a NEW weekly installment ( I.E. series )..

 

I do see now, Wal-Mart & Paramont(Mainly) have got (TOS) on sale on the shelves-- Newly enhanced with newer, bigger, better Visual effects! Even BlueRay versions! Milking the old girl even MORE! Atleast, now the surviving Original cast can see some more $$$$$ in royalites from all this( Besides Nemoy )

 

He's( Nimoy) is a heck of business man-- more of a Feringi than Vulcan-- now not only is he the only Vulcan to Die and come back, but also has been party to a script that Eliminates all later Vulcan Characters( Besides his Father ) and leaves him as the -- Alpha & Omaga Vulcan!

 

I know, there's about 10,000 survivors-- maybe Tuvoc is among them..

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I honestly don't believe it's about "saving the franchise". I honestly don't believe it needed "saving" but that's just my opinion. I do believe it's all about a movie every few years that will make money regardless of what the fans think/like/dislike. One of the new writers said so much himself, that this is the way it will be (alternate timeline and canon be damned) so long as HE'S in the picture.

 

To me, saying that they had to do an "alternate timeline" and had to make the changes that they made to canon was the only way to attract a "new audience" is just flat out wrong and a copout. It was their way of saying "screw canon, we're doing what we want and they'll be forced to go along!"

 

They'll make a few movies and make money. Probably a little less with each installment and then they'll be done and we'll be left with the mess.

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Wasn't that 2nd and final monster that chases Jim on Delta Vega( relocated to near Vulcan..Ha..ha) actually the same as the Cloverfield Movie Monster?

 

Sure looks like the same beast -- recycled from J.J. Abrams previous movie.

 

Both beasts bear some resemblance to Cloverfield (the first in the face, the second in the body, to a degree). But neither is an exact copy of it. They were both designed by Neville Page, who designed Cloverfield, so that's the reason for that.

 

I think what it really boils down to is: can you revive a franchise with just box office Movies.. like 2 hours at a whack.. 1 new movie every year. So what's really important is exactly what the actors contracts state? Are they bound to a 1, 2, 3, or 4 Movie deal? Are they free to say-- oh, No thanks-- done that- I'm moving on? Are they obligated to move now to the "small screen"( TV ) and locked into a new series?

 

If the answer is No to all the above-- then this was just a "milking of the cash cow" once again. And there's no real revival at all.

And I really don't see how a Trek revival is possible without a NEW weekly installment ( I.E. series )..

 

All principal cast members (with the likely exceptions of Nimoy, Bana, and possibly Greenwood) and the main producers (Abrams, Orci, Kurtzman, Burk and Lindelof) are signed to multiple (three, including the first) picture deals. Work has already begun on the sequel (writing it, anyway).

 

And a Trek revival is entirely possible without a weekly series. From 1979 to 1987, Star Trek was only a motion picture franchise. The popularity of those movies (most notably ST IV) is what lead to Star Trek: The Next Generation. So a new series may eventually come about as result of this movie's popularity. Hard to say with the current split in the franchise's rights.

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Both beasts bear some resemblance to Cloverfield (the first in the face, the second in the body, to a degree). But neither is an exact copy of it. They were both designed by Neville Page, who designed Cloverfield, so that's the reason for that.

 

Of the aspects of the movie that I didn't like, I think the "monsters" was the part I disliked the most. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other Star Trek show/movie that had some giant "monster" trying to eat someone.

 

That was one of the parts of the movie to me and multiple other people that I know where it was too much of a "Star Wars like" gimmick. Like in The Phantom Menace where the underwater creatures were trying to eat Obi Wan and Qui Gon.

 

Star Trek has always been more "intelligent" than to have such "fantasy" elements that you'd expect from "Lost In Space" or something of that ilk. So for me, had they left the giant man eating monsters out it would have been a plus.

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Both beasts bear some resemblance to Cloverfield (the first in the face, the second in the body, to a degree). But neither is an exact copy of it. They were both designed by Neville Page, who designed Cloverfield, so that's the reason for that.

 

Of the aspects of the movie that I didn't like, I think the "monsters" was the part I disliked the most. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other Star Trek show/movie that had some giant "monster" trying to eat someone.

 

That was one of the parts of the movie to me and multiple other people that I know where it was too much of a "Star Wars like" gimmick. Like in The Phantom Menace where the underwater creatures were trying to eat Obi Wan and Qui Gon.

 

Star Trek has always been more "intelligent" than to have such "fantasy" elements that you'd expect from "Lost In Space" or something of that ilk. So for me, had they left the giant man eating monsters out it would have been a plus.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Hanonian_land_eel

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Both beasts bear some resemblance to Cloverfield (the first in the face, the second in the body, to a degree). But neither is an exact copy of it. They were both designed by Neville Page, who designed Cloverfield, so that's the reason for that.

 

Of the aspects of the movie that I didn't like, I think the "monsters" was the part I disliked the most. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other Star Trek show/movie that had some giant "monster" trying to eat someone.

 

That was one of the parts of the movie to me and multiple other people that I know where it was too much of a "Star Wars like" gimmick. Like in The Phantom Menace where the underwater creatures were trying to eat Obi Wan and Qui Gon.

 

Star Trek has always been more "intelligent" than to have such "fantasy" elements that you'd expect from "Lost In Space" or something of that ilk. So for me, had they left the giant man eating monsters out it would have been a plus.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Hanonian_land_eel

 

I specifically disliked that Voyager episode too. Probably why I didn't remember it. Gene Roddenberry said it best though:

 

What's been wrong with science fiction in television and in motion pictures for years is that whenever a monster was used, the tendency was to say 'Ah, Ha! Let's have a BIG one that comes out, attacks, and kills everyone.' Nobody ever asked 'why?' in any other story, if something attacks (a bear, a man or whatever), the author is expected to explain, 'here is why it is the way it is, here are the things that led it to do this, here is what it wants.'

 

A classic example of doing this right was one of our most popular episodes, written by Gene Coon, entitled 'The Devil in the Dark'. The 'Horta' was an underground creature which attacked a group of miners. In the end they find out that it attacked because - surprise - it was a mother! It was protecting its eggs because the miners were destroying them in the belief that they were just strange-looking mineral formations.

 

With this understood, the Horta suddenly became understandable, too. It wasn't just a monster - it was SOMEONE. And the audience could put themselves in the place of the Horta ... identify ... feel! That's what drama is all about. And that's its importance, too ... if you can learn to feel for a Horta, you might also be learning to understand and feel for other humans of different colors, ways and beliefs.

 

He kind of goes off a little from the point of the monster to show how it can teach tolerance here in human society, but the point of the monster (I believe) is that he believed that the thing "wrong" with sci-fi was when they (the writers/directors/producers) just throw some giant monster out there because it's "sci-fi" and there "should be giant monsters trying to eat our heroes" when it has nothing to actually add to the telling of the story. Giant monsters trying to eat Cpt. Kirk just for the sake of giant monsters trying to eat Cpt. Kirk is, in my opinion just silly and something best left to "Lost in Space". I didn't even like it too much in The Phantom Menace, but Star Wars is more "Space Fantasy" and you expect that kind of thing in "space fantasy".

 

Star Trek is (or was till 2009) reality based science fiction. By reality based I mean that it's supposed to be reality, or what reality could be 250 to 300 years into the future. Whenever I watch the movie now, I fast forward past the giant "Kirk-eating monster". It was just silly, sort of like the giant rock creature in Galaxy Quest that tried to eat Tim Allen. :superhappy:

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worse that a "Kirk eating Monster" that's non-reality based is a "planet/super-nova eating artifically produced black hole which dissipates after consuming it's Plot specified target on the one hand.... yet, will also allow certain spaceships to travel Through and emerge 100+ years in the past in different areas of the same galactic quad of the galaxy.

 

Also, anyone have an issue with Spock making such a silly little mistake-- like mis-calculating the rate of expansion of the super-nova and not saving Romulas in time? Usually he's pretty accurate at that sort of stuff.

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worse that a "Kirk eating Monster" that's non-reality based is a "planet/super-nova eating artifically produced black hole which dissipates after consuming it's Plot specified target on the one hand.... yet, will also allow certain spaceships to travel Through and emerge 100+ years in the past in different areas of the same galactic quad of the galaxy.

 

Also, anyone have an issue with Spock making such a silly little mistake-- like mis-calculating the rate of expansion of the super-nova and not saving Romulas in time? Usually he's pretty accurate at that sort of stuff.

Yeah, I had thought about the Spock thing. I chocked it up to the writers being knuckle heads and just deciding that it's "their way or no way" and they needed a "dumbed down, Starfleet regulation ignoring" Spock so that's what they wrote.

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Also, anyone have an issue with Spock making such a silly little mistake-- like mis-calculating the rate of expansion of the super-nova and not saving Romulas in time? Usually he's pretty accurate at that sort of stuff.

So he made a rounding error. Big deal.

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The creature moments don't really stand out for me, in any case...but Spock meeting Young Jim-yes. Guess i'll be seeing that again in a few hours, if all goes to plan....

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Gene Roddenberry said it best though:

 

What's been wrong with science fiction in television and in motion pictures for years is that whenever a monster was used, the tendency was to say 'Ah, Ha! Let's have a BIG one that comes out, attacks, and kills everyone.' Nobody ever asked 'why?' in any other story, if something attacks (a bear, a man or whatever), the author is expected to explain, 'here is why it is the way it is, here are the things that led it to do this, here is what it wants.'

 

A classic example of doing this right was one of our most popular episodes, written by Gene Coon, entitled 'The Devil in the Dark'. The 'Horta' was an underground creature which attacked a group of miners. In the end they find out that it attacked because - surprise - it was a mother! It was protecting its eggs because the miners were destroying them in the belief that they were just strange-looking mineral formations.

 

With this understood, the Horta suddenly became understandable, too. It wasn't just a monster - it was SOMEONE. And the audience could put themselves in the place of the Horta ... identify ... feel! That's what drama is all about. And that's its importance, too ... if you can learn to feel for a Horta, you might also be learning to understand and feel for other humans of different colors, ways and beliefs.

 

He kind of goes off a little from the point of the monster to show how it can teach tolerance here in human society, but the point of the monster (I believe) is that he believed that the thing "wrong" with sci-fi was when they (the writers/directors/producers) just throw some giant monster out there because it's "sci-fi" and there "should be giant monsters trying to eat our heroes" when it has nothing to actually add to the telling of the story. Giant monsters trying to eat Cpt. Kirk just for the sake of giant monsters trying to eat Cpt. Kirk is, in my opinion just silly and something best left to "Lost in Space". I didn't even like it too much in The Phantom Menace, but Star Wars is more "Space Fantasy" and you expect that kind of thing in "space fantasy".

 

Star Trek is (or was till 2009) reality based science fiction. By reality based I mean that it's supposed to be reality, or what reality could be 250 to 300 years into the future. Whenever I watch the movie now, I fast forward past the giant "Kirk-eating monster". It was just silly, sort of like the giant rock creature in Galaxy Quest that tried to eat Tim Allen. :superhappy:

Yes, because giant carnivorous life-forms are such a stretch from reality. I mean, its not like this planet was once dominated by giant creatures. Some of which were carnivorous. Or as if there are no large carnivorous life-forms today.

 

And yes, the idea of a creature that appears monstrous but is actually understandable (like the Horta) is a great sci-fi concept, but the idea of a universe that is populated with only those types of creatures is not. It would be unrealistic to say there are no wild animals on any planet in the Star Trek universe. And as such, it is a good thing that they do exist and that some of them are dangerous (Mugatus, Ceti Eels, Hanonian land eels, sehlats, etc).

 

I would also like to point out that the two creatures in the movie are in fact, integral to the plot of the movie. If Kirk is not chased by them, he never meets Spock Prime (he is going away from him at the time) and he would not be able to prevent the destruction of Earth and stop Nero.

 

And while Star Trek is more reality-based than Star Wars or Lost in Space, it is not completely grounded in reality or real-world science.

 

Yeah, I had thought about the Spock thing. I chocked it up to the writers being knuckle heads and just deciding that it's "their way or no way" and they needed a "dumbed down, Starfleet regulation ignoring" Spock so that's what they wrote.

Spock is doing all he can. At first, he's marooned. He has no way of stopping Nero. He is complying with the only part of Temporal Prime Directive that he can: he's staying out of way because he has no other option. When he has the opportunity to minimize the changes to this timeline, he does take the opportunity to do so (by sending Kirk back to the Enterprise).

 

So he made a rounding error. Big deal.

Exactly. Spock is hardly infallible. He can make mistakes. He's also not as young as he once was. Of course, for all we know, this nova was highly unstable and as such, unpredictable.

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Yes, because giant carnivorous life-forms are such a stretch from reality. I mean, its not like this planet was once dominated by giant creatures. Some of which were carnivorous. Or as if there are no large carnivorous life-forms today.

 

And yes, the idea of a creature that appears monstrous but is actually understandable (like the Horta) is a great sci-fi concept, but the idea of a universe that is populated with only those types of creatures is not. It would be unrealistic to say there are no wild animals on any planet in the Star Trek universe. And as such, it is a good thing that they do exist and that some of them are dangerous (Mugatus, Ceti Eels, Hanonian land eels, sehlats, etc).

 

I would also like to point out that the two creatures in the movie are in fact, integral to the plot of the movie. If Kirk is not chased by them, he never meets Spock Prime (he is going away from him at the time) and he would not be able to prevent the destruction of Earth and stop Nero.

 

And while Star Trek is more reality-based than Star Wars or Lost in Space, it is not completely grounded in reality or real-world science.

 

The way it was done in this movie was cartoonish and lowers the intellectual level of Star Trek down to Lost In Space. Fan acceptance of such things and a seeming unwillingness to question the writers poor decisions is what will doom the franchise to death.

 

Star Trek has, for the most part been above such obvious acts has having giant scary space monsters scurrying around trying to eat the hero of the movie/episode. In my opinion it's just lowbrow and beneath Star Trek. As for the 2 scary space monsters being integral parts of the plot, that's simply due to a lack of creative imagination on the part of the writers. They could have written it in such a way that Darth Vader was an integral part of young Kirk meeting old Spock on the planet Hoth (after all Hoth does have giant scary monsters that try to eat heroes too). I just wish they had left it out or at least left it on the editing room floor. It was silly.

 

Spock is doing all he can. At first, he's marooned. He has no way of stopping Nero. He is complying with the only part of Temporal Prime Directive that he can: he's staying out of way because he has no other option. When he has the opportunity to minimize the changes to this timeline, he does take the opportunity to do so (by sending Kirk back to the Enterprise).

 

So, Spock is so intellectually and physically limited that he can do nothing until young and clueless Kirk shows up? Suddenly Spock can spring into action and do something? Scotty and the Federation outpost was there on the planet before Kirk got there and Spock knew it. Spock also knew that the timeline had been altered due to his actions. So why didn't he head out to the outpost before Kirk got there? Spock had no idea that Kirk would be showing up so as it seems, Spock was content to just let things be. Then Kirk shows up and he MUST do something. Not to save Vulcan and billions of Vulcans that didn't die before (as well as billions that were born before but now never will be) but just to get Kirk in command of the Enterprise and make "alternate" Kirk and Spock friends.

 

There were aspects of this movie that were just poorly written, either due to lazy writers or due to unimaginative writers (or both).

 

This is not the worst of the 11 movies but it's also not the best of them either, and that's assuming that you rank them with the other 10 as opposed to putting it into it's own category as a stand alone movie.

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So, Spock is so intellectually and physically limited that he can do nothing until young and clueless Kirk shows up? Suddenly Spock can spring into action and do something? Scotty and the Federation outpost was there on the planet before Kirk got there and Spock knew it. Spock also knew that the timeline had been altered due to his actions. So why didn't he head out to the outpost before Kirk got there? Spock had no idea that Kirk would be showing up so as it seems, Spock was content to just let things be. Then Kirk shows up and he MUST do something. Not to save Vulcan and billions of Vulcans that didn't die before (as well as billions that were born before but now never will be) but just to get Kirk in command of the Enterprise and make "alternate" Kirk and Spock friends.

 

For all we know he was probably on his way to see Scotty already when Kirk and the big, scary monster things caught his attention. The arrival of Kirk changed his methodology somewhat.

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For all we know he was probably on his way to see Scotty already when Kirk and the big, scary monster things caught his attention. The arrival of Kirk changed his methodology somewhat.

Well that would seem to negate the notion that he's "staying out of way because he has no other option", wouldn't it?

 

Of course even if he is on his way to the outpost, he would have no idea that Scotty was there.

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Scotty could have mentioned it in an unseen TOS moment. At any rate, both he and Kirk had no choice but to seek out the station, Scotty or no Scotty.

 

And I'm not the one who said old Spock had no other option. He had competing priorities that were unachievable with his *limited* options, so he did the best he could.

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For all we know he was probably on his way to see Scotty already when Kirk and the big, scary monster things caught his attention. The arrival of Kirk changed his methodology somewhat.

Well that would seem to negate the notion that he's "staying out of way because he has no other option", wouldn't it?

 

Of course even if he is on his way to the outpost, he would have no idea that Scotty was there.

Exactly, even if he goes there, he has no way of knowing what he could do. He could go there, and meet Scotty and introduce transwarp beaming but he would have no where to go. He doesn't have a ship to beam to. He is trying to do something but doesn't know what he can do until he runs into Kirk in the cave. He is likely in the cave to take shelter from both the elements and the native lifeforms.

 

Also, if we assume that when Kirk was headed in the direction of the outpost when he was attacked and was then chased toward Spock Prime and away from the outpost, that means that the ledge he fell down is between Spock Prime and the outpost. He may not be able to climb that hill without assistance (which he later gets from Kirk). So even if he is trying to stop Nero, there is a lot in his way, as LVR said.

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So, Spock is so intellectually and physically limited that he can do nothing until young and clueless Kirk shows up? Suddenly Spock can spring into action and do something? Scotty and the Federation outpost was there on the planet before Kirk got there and Spock knew it. Spock also knew that the timeline had been altered due to his actions. So why didn't he head out to the outpost before Kirk got there? Spock had no idea that Kirk would be showing up so as it seems, Spock was content to just let things be. Then Kirk shows up and he MUST do something. Not to save Vulcan and billions of Vulcans that didn't die before (as well as billions that were born before but now never will be) but just to get Kirk in command of the Enterprise and make "alternate" Kirk and Spock friends.

 

There were aspects of this movie that were just poorly written, either due to lazy writers or due to unimaginative writers (or both).

 

This is not the worst of the 11 movies but it's also not the best of them either, and that's assuming that you rank them with the other 10 as opposed to putting it into it's own category as a stand alone movie.

 

 

VaBeachGuy caught this... in the above quoted material, before I could respond- regarding the written plot-- that was on my mind as well. Spock knows there's a federation outpost within walking distance but chooses instead to not attempt to warn Star Fleet or the fed. Instead, stands helpless watching his home world be sucked down the drain... which is also badly conceived 1st with the Moving Delta Vega and 2nd: The size of Vulcan to be seen so large in the Delta Vega sky-- suggests a very Near distance-- like Delta Vega is a Moon of Vulcan! Yet, doesn't get pulled into the black hole along with Vulcan.

 

Yes, I can see the need plot wise as to why a writer would need a creature or two to chase our character ( Kirk) into the "path" of Spock--- but yes, it reminded me of Luke Skywalker on the Planet Hoth... I'm suprised he ( Jim) wasn't knocked unconscious and later seen hanging from the ceiling of the ice cave.... with Spock showing up like Obi-Wan Knoby ...."Use the Force, Jim"...

 

 

I still liked the whole Spock(old)- Jim(young) encounter-- as I stated before-- up until then Chris Pine was basically just "winging" it with the Kirk character-- it was this initial encounter with the original Spock- where he needed to "introduce" some of William Shatner's mannerism's into the mix-- and he nailed it there in the cave and later on the bridge( at the end ).

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VaBeachGuy caught this... in the above quoted material, before I could respond- regarding the written plot-- that was on my mind as well. Spock knows there's a federation outpost within walking distance but chooses instead to not attempt to warn Star Fleet or the fed. Instead, stands helpless watching his home world be sucked down the drain... which is also badly conceived 1st with the Moving Delta Vega and 2nd: The size of Vulcan to be seen so large in the Delta Vega sky-- suggests a very Near distance-- like Delta Vega is a Moon of Vulcan! Yet, doesn't get pulled into the black hole along with Vulcan.

I really don't think he got much of an opportunity to warn Starfleet. The Narada beams him down to Delta Vega and then goes straight to Vulcan and begins its attack. In the movie it appears that Kirk encounters Spock prime only a relatively short distance from his landing site (I'm basing this on the fact that he wouldn't walk that far without starting his log entry), which means that Spock prime is still fourteen kilometers from the outpost. So even if he has been moving since he was beamed down, he is still a fair distance from the outpost. So, overall he probably did not have a lot of lead time to warn anyone of the threat of the Narada.

 

As for Delta Vega (Vulcan System)'s location, yes it definitely close to Vulcan, though not necessarily a moon. Perhaps, just a nearby planetoid. The reason it likely avoids being pulled into the black hole is that the black hole closes after consuming Vulcan. It would appear that Red Matter created singularities are different from those which occur naturally.

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Scotty could have mentioned it in an unseen TOS moment. At any rate, both he and Kirk had no choice but to seek out the station, Scotty or no Scotty.

 

And I'm not the one who said old Spock had no other option. He had competing priorities that were unachievable with his *limited* options, so he did the best he could.

If it had been that Scotty had mentioned it in an unseen TOS moment then Spock wouldn't have been surprised to see him there, and yes you weren't the one that said he had no options but your reply was to my reply to that statement. So I was kind of agreeing that Spock did indeed have options. At this point in the movie, his options are indeed limited but there were options.

 

The main part that I dislike and suggest is antithetical to the past 40+ years of Star Trek is the part where old Spock just sort of shrugs off the destruction of Vulcan as if it's no big deal... "cest la vie".

 

The point where as a Federation ambassador he had a duty and responsibility to 'fix' things was at the end of the movie when he gets his future ship back and can then take action or at the very least TRY to fix things. You know... the "good of the many" and all that stuff? Having Spock just walk off into the sunset after such an event just isn't Star Trek.

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