Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Voyager recruit

To Kesfans Only-what are your favorite aspects of her?

89 posts in this topic

another great use of her powers was in The Gift. Getting the device out of Seven's brain, making the console explode to stop her sabotage, and her ultimate gift of the 10,000 light years......great use of her powers!!!!

 

180px-Kes_the_Gift.jpg

 

No coincident that you bring up another picture from another episode which I hate.

 

You must miss me on the startrek.com forum. No one to argue with and harrass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess this just won't die, so maybe I should just pull the whole blasted thing! I am growing wery of defending my feelings on the matter. To alter ego, yes, you make a logical point, re the potentiality of others expanding upon it, as does happen elsewhere. But, apparently, where this topic is concerned-not so much the 'crude' comments I suppose I too forcefully spoke of-I am not so big-I am far from perfect-as to be unable to admit when I am wrong, and regrets to offense taken re that. But I will NOT overly apologize, for to whatever extent finding a thread I specifically couched, so as to hopefully avoid this situation, of someone coming in to expound upon their DISLIKES of Kes. Can noone see the difference?Pardon my nubie's naievte' in this freewheeling world of '' say anything you darn well want to, whereever you want to. Pardon me, for merely loking for a place to share ideas, about a character who DOES have worth-to me, and yes others. But I know for a fact, that there are those who don't-and make their severe animus for Kes known to all who will listen-and those who don't care to, as well. No doubt, the moderators will likely read this, as is their right; if they choose to pull it themselves, I have no problem with that. Maybe it would be for the best-but I WANT THIS TABLED....one way or the other. So, I guess someone wins..and it's not me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess this just won't die, so maybe I should just pull the whole blasted thing! I am growing wery of defending my feelings on the matter. To alter ego, yes, you make a logical point, re the potentiality of others expanding upon it, as does happen elsewhere. But, apparently, where this topic is concerned-not so much the 'crude' comments I suppose I too forcefully spoke of-I am not so big-I am far from perfect-as to be unable to admit when I am wrong, and regrets to offense taken re that. But I will NOT overly apologize, for to whatever extent finding a thread I specifically couched, so as to hopefully avoid this situation, of someone coming in to expound upon their DISLIKES of Kes. Can noone see the difference?Pardon my nubie's naievte' in this freewheeling world of '' say anything you darn well want to, whereever you want to. Pardon me, for merely loking for a place to share ideas, about a character who DOES have worth-to me, and yes others. But I know for a fact, that there are those who don't-and make their severe animus for Kes known to all who will listen-and those who don't care to, as well. No doubt, the moderators will likely read this, as is their right; if they choose to pull it themselves, I have no problem with that. Maybe it would be for the best-but I WANT THIS TABLED....one way or the other. So, I guess someone wins..and it's not me.

 

Don't blame yourself. It's not your fault.

 

I think that you have all rights in the world to request that people who don't like, or in some cases hate the character should leave the thread alone and respect your request. It's all about respect for posters.

 

Unfortunately there are those who don't seem to understand that, who has deliberately tried to turn the thread into some bashing thread and porno thread or come up with comments and pictures which are violations of the request "for Kes-fans only".

 

Even fans of the character Kes have the right to have their requests respeced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess this just won't die, so maybe I should just pull the whole blasted thing! I am growing wery of defending my feelings on the matter. To alter ego, yes, you make a logical point, re the potentiality of others expanding upon it, as does happen elsewhere. But, apparently, where this topic is concerned-not so much the 'crude' comments I suppose I too forcefully spoke of-I am not so big-I am far from perfect-as to be unable to admit when I am wrong, and regrets to offense taken re that. But I will NOT overly apologize, for to whatever extent finding a thread I specifically couched, so as to hopefully avoid this situation, of someone coming in to expound upon their DISLIKES of Kes. Can noone see the difference?Pardon my nubie's naievte' in this freewheeling world of '' say anything you darn well want to, whereever you want to. Pardon me, for merely loking for a place to share ideas, about a character who DOES have worth-to me, and yes others. But I know for a fact, that there are those who don't-and make their severe animus for Kes known to all who will listen-and those who don't care to, as well. No doubt, the moderators will likely read this, as is their right; if they choose to pull it themselves, I have no problem with that. Maybe it would be for the best-but I WANT THIS TABLED....one way or the other. So, I guess someone wins..and it's not me.

I don't understand what your problem is? were you hoping for nothing but gushing adoring praise?

 

Nobody has bashed Kes, nobody has said anything rude or fought or anything of the sort, so I realy don't understand what your issue is. There have been some interesting discussions and everyone has talked about things they liked about her

 

so please, what's the problem? You want the whole thread deleted because not everyone expressed pure adoring praise of the character? That doesn't realy make sense

 

I guess Kes fans are very sensitive

Edited by vgrbabe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, since the request "for Kes-fans only" hasn't been respected, then maybe the thread should be deleted.

 

As for rudeness, is it necessary to post pictures from "Fury" and "The Gift" and praise those episodes in a Kes appreciation thread? That can be seen as a bit provocative due to the fact that most Kes-fans hates or at least dislike those episodes. After all, there are many better episodes to praise.

 

As for Kes-fans being sensitive, well I guess some of us have become that after:

 

1. Seeing our favorite character being kicked out

 

2. Seeing our favorite character being ruined and destroyed.

 

3. The hate-campaign against the character and actress on certain forums.

 

So I guess some of us have become a bit sensitive.

Edited by Lynx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've consulted with the OP and I have no inclination to close the thread at this time as long as it stays appropriate.

 

And to speak candidly, everyone needs to relax. Remember, it's just a TV show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've consulted with the OP and I have no inclination to close the thread at this time as long as it stays appropriate.

 

And to speak candidly, everyone needs to relax. Remember, it's just a TV show.

 

You're right about that! :)

 

But sometimes we Trek fans are very passionate about our favorite shows and favorite characters. B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

another episode that I liked what happened to Kes in was Sacred Ground. Up until then she was shown to be some realy wise person (though it makes no sense that she would be) it was actualy humanizing to see her do something wrong for a change. Plus it showed the lengths that Janeway would go through for her crew.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^

Hmmm....yes,,she was close to death in "Sacred Ground", wasn't she?

 

As for Kes being wise, I don't see the problem there. Maybe she and her species did have some extraordinary abilities which made them learn and absorbe knowledge very quickly and also had this ability for compassion, understanding and wisdom in general. I don't find it more exaggetated than, let's say a Maquis engineer who dropped out of the Starfleet Academy in the second year but still did know more about the engines in a new-built starship than those who had graduated from the Academy and were actually serving on that Starship from the day it was launched.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've consulted with the OP and I have no inclination to close the thread at this time as long as it stays appropriate.

 

And to speak candidly, everyone needs to relax. Remember, it's just a TV show.

 

I think some people take this tv show and certain characters way too seriously

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally liked every aspect of the Kes character. I've said it before and will say it again... the writers really dropped the ball by failing to fully develop her character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I personally liked every aspect of the Kes character. I've said it before and will say it again... the writers really dropped the ball by failing to fully develop her character.

 

I honestly don't think it was the writers' fault. I think they gave the character plenty of chances to be interesting. Cold Fire, Warlord, The Gift, Darkling, Persistance of Vision. But IMO, it was the actress that failed to deliver.

 

I think it would have been realy interesting to have kept the character (perhaps with a different actress) and continue to develop her more. It would be interesting to see a species go through it's whole lifespan, that's something we've never seen on Trek before. We've always seen species that live a lot longer than humans and I thought it was a great change of pace to see one that didn't. Plus her powers were cool! I mean, come on, she could boil someone's blood for crying out loud, and start fires with her mind! That has to come in handy sometimes LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I personally liked every aspect of the Kes character. I've said it before and will say it again... the writers really dropped the ball by failing to fully develop her character.

 

I honestly don't think it was the writers' fault. I think they gave the character plenty of chances to be interesting. Cold Fire, Warlord, The Gift, Darkling, Persistance of Vision. But IMO, it was the actress that failed to deliver.

 

I think it would have been realy interesting to have kept the character (perhaps with a different actress) and continue to develop her more. It would be interesting to see a species go through it's whole lifespan, that's something we've never seen on Trek before. We've always seen species that live a lot longer than humans and I thought it was a great change of pace to see one that didn't. Plus her powers were cool! I mean, come on, she could boil someone's blood for crying out loud, and start fires with her mind! That has to come in handy sometimes LOL

 

 

I disagree. Although Jennifer Lien had some good moments in those eps, there really was no development on the writers part for her character as evidenced by her sudden "breakup" with Neelix right after the events of the aforementioned "Warlord". An actor/actress can only do so much with the character and that is largely contingent on the creativity of the writing staff. Unfortunately, the writers were running out of ideas and decided to write Kes off. It was one of the biggest mistakes they did. After all, it was Garrett Wang who was supposed to be written off,but as soon as he made the "50 most beautiful list" of People magazine, it was ascertained that he may help the shows ratings. Therefore Kes was axed. I personally don't think re-casting the character would've done good either. The writing staff needed to be replaced imo. At least the catsuit laden Seven of Nine helped Paramount avoid having to do that :giggle: . Imo, the Kes character offered so many dimensions that the writers just didn't hit on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I personally liked every aspect of the Kes character. I've said it before and will say it again... the writers really dropped the ball by failing to fully develop her character.

 

I honestly don't think it was the writers' fault. I think they gave the character plenty of chances to be interesting. Cold Fire, Warlord, The Gift, Darkling, Persistance of Vision. But IMO, it was the actress that failed to deliver.

 

I think it would have been realy interesting to have kept the character (perhaps with a different actress) and continue to develop her more. It would be interesting to see a species go through it's whole lifespan, that's something we've never seen on Trek before. We've always seen species that live a lot longer than humans and I thought it was a great change of pace to see one that didn't. Plus her powers were cool! I mean, come on, she could boil someone's blood for crying out loud, and start fires with her mind! That has to come in handy sometimes LOL

 

 

I disagree. Although Jennifer Lien had some good moments in those eps, there really was no development on the writers part for her character as evidenced by her sudden "breakup" with Neelix right after the events of the aforementioned "Warlord". An actor/actress can only do so much with the character and that is largely contingent on the creativity of the writing staff. Unfortunately, the writers were running out of ideas and decided to write Kes off. It was one of the biggest mistakes they did. After all, it was Garrett Wang who was supposed to be written off,but as soon as he made the "50 most beautiful list" of People magazine, it was ascertained that he may help the shows ratings. Therefore Kes was axed. I personally don't think re-casting the character would've done good either. The writing staff needed to be replaced imo. At least the catsuit laden Seven of Nine helped Paramount avoid having to do that :giggle: . Imo, the Kes character offered so many dimensions that the writers just didn't hit on.

 

 

then we're going to have to disagree. I think the writers gave the character plenty of oportunity to grow, but the actress couldn't deliver

 

I think the writers on the show were amazing and did a great job with the show making it the best star trek series

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jennifer Lien did an excellent job when she was given the opportunity. She was brilliant in episodes like "Cold Fire", Persistence Of Vision", "Warlord", "caretaker", "Before And After" and many others as well. She really gave life to the character Kes.

 

As for the writers, they became sloppy and the writing was erratic, especially in the later seasons when everything was concentrated on three characters while the others were shoved in the background.

 

They could never use the potential of the great characters they had to work with.

 

However, I don't think they were running out of ideas when it came to Kes. It was more a decision just to dump a character for the sake of dumping one to make room for Seven Of Nine. Besides that, Harry Kim was the first choice to be dumped but when a stupid poll among the staff of some silly magazine showed him among the "50 most handsome", those in charge of the show changed their minds and dumped Kes instead.

 

The statement that "the writers couldn't come up with stories for the character" is obviously false since one of them had no problems at all writing for the character in two books. Besides that, there were many stories with Kes as a main character up to the last minute of her presence on Voyager.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If one feels that Jennifer Lien had some sort of deficit in talent-then I disagree. And I cite no less than Kate Mulgrew, who in recorded interviews said, and I quote, ''She's one hell of an actress'' Ethan Phillips, who, like the wonderful Kate Mulgrew, spoke of her''immediacy''; these were peolpe with no investment in telling anything but the truth re Jen as they saw it. Regardless of the circumstances of her departure, and I sometimes wonder, ''what if'', she to me WAS Kes in her portrayal. Period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If one feels that Jennifer Lien had some sort of deficit in talent-then I disagree. And I cite no less than Kate Mulgrew, who in recorded interviews said, and I quote, ''She's one hell of an actress'' Ethan Phillips, who, like the wonderful Kate Mulgrew, spoke of her''immediacy''; these were peolpe with no investment in telling anything but the truth re Jen as they saw it. Regardless of the circumstances of her departure, and I sometimes wonder, ''what if'', she to me WAS Kes in her portrayal. Period.

 

that's cool, I still disagree :giggle:

 

and that just shows that Mulgrew and the others have class and didn't trash their fellow actor :o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If one feels that Jennifer Lien had some sort of deficit in talent-then I disagree. And I cite no less than Kate Mulgrew, who in recorded interviews said, and I quote, ''She's one hell of an actress'' Ethan Phillips, who, like the wonderful Kate Mulgrew, spoke of her''immediacy''; these were peolpe with no investment in telling anything but the truth re Jen as they saw it. Regardless of the circumstances of her departure, and I sometimes wonder, ''what if'', she to me WAS Kes in her portrayal. Period.

 

 

QUOTED FOR TRUTH :giggle: At least you are able to see to the heart of the matter here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If one feels that Jennifer Lien had some sort of deficit in talent-then I disagree. And I cite no less than Kate Mulgrew, who in recorded interviews said, and I quote, ''She's one hell of an actress'' Ethan Phillips, who, like the wonderful Kate Mulgrew, spoke of her''immediacy''; these were peolpe with no investment in telling anything but the truth re Jen as they saw it. Regardless of the circumstances of her departure, and I sometimes wonder, ''what if'', she to me WAS Kes in her portrayal. Period.

 

that's cool, I still disagree :o

 

and that just shows that Mulgrew and the others have class and didn't trash their fellow actor :o

 

So you are accusing Mulgrew and the others for being hypocrites and liars? :giggle:

 

The fact is that Jennifer Lien was liked by all her fellow cast members and they were very sad and upset when she was fired.

 

All of them also regarded her as a very good actress.

 

Kate Mulgrew has stated several times that she think that Jennifer is a great actress and she has also stated her dislike over the fact that Jennifer was kicked out.

 

Robert Beltran said in an inteview some years ago that he regarded Jennifer Lien as a better actress than Jeri Ryan and that Jennifer should have stayed in the show.

 

The others have also stated that they find Jennifer Lien a very good actress and a good friend as well.

 

If they had disliked Jennifer and thought that she was a bad actress, they would simply have come up with some lame comment when she was fired and nothing more. They haven't!

 

Instead they have several times stated that they liked Jennifer as a person and actress and that they were sad to see her go.

 

As for Jennifer's acting skills, it gave her a role in the highly awardes movie "American History X".

 

She wouldn't have gotten that role if she had been considered a "bad actress".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If one feels that Jennifer Lien had some sort of deficit in talent-then I disagree. And I cite no less than Kate Mulgrew, who in recorded interviews said, and I quote, ''She's one hell of an actress'' Ethan Phillips, who, like the wonderful Kate Mulgrew, spoke of her''immediacy''; these were peolpe with no investment in telling anything but the truth re Jen as they saw it. Regardless of the circumstances of her departure, and I sometimes wonder, ''what if'', she to me WAS Kes in her portrayal. Period.

 

 

QUOTED FOR TRUTH :o At least you are able to see to the heart of the matter here.

 

I want to thank you. Even though we disagree on this issue, thank you for respecting my opinion enough not to insult me for it. We don't have to agree, but we can still be civil :giggle:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We recently rewatched the entire Voyager series. I had not watched this show since it was on the air. There were many episodes that I had never seen and it was really great to have some "new" Trek to watch!

 

As far as Kes, I didn't like the character much at all the first time around, but rewatching the show gave me an entirely different opinion of her. I guess that 10 years will change your perspective. I think the writers were hamstrung by the Kes character's childlike depiction and short lifespan early on. It was an interesting idea to make her a being that was only going to live nine years or so, but it also forced them to write her almost like a child.

 

Jennifer had a great figure and could have pulled off a much more sexy look than she was ever allowed to have as Kes. She had a great throaty voice, also wasted. Plus, they paired her up with Neelix, ick, and that was just plain weird. She was locked in a relationship before we ever got to know her. They wrote themselves into a corner.

 

I was sad to see her go this time around and wish they'd had more writing talent to have kept her and "fixed" her character. When they brought her back as an old woman in that one episode (Fury?), I HATED seeing Jennifer Lien trying to play past Kes. It was ridiculous that no one noticed the doubling of her waistline ... completely unbelievable. If I were Jennifer, I would never have consented to return to the role until I'd had the opportunity to drop about 25 to 30 pounds!

 

Replacing her with Jeri Ryan and going in a more blatant sexual direction changed the tone of the show. A noticeable shift in focus. It became the Doctor and Seven show, with those two and their angst occupying a great deal of the focus. Janeway still dominated, but mainly as a foil for the other two. And they shoved Chakotay completely into the background. Then the writers in all their wonderful wisdom decide that Chakotay and Seven are going to hook up ... preposterous! I HATED the way they did that. Janeway and Chakotay danced around each other for the first three seasons of that show. They made much more sense as a couple. But, hey, they did the same thing to Picard and Crusher, so I don't know why I expected anything better!

 

So Voyager limped across the finish line with some very odd choices (don't even get me started on the insertion of Lt. Barclay and Counselor Troi!) I think that Jennifer Lien would have been a great asset to the show for its entire run. After they broke up her and Neelix, I actually liked Neelix. And I liked her, too, until they let her hair grow long and she started looking very "un"Keslike. Oh, well, at least Voyager occupied that twerp Brannon Braga and kept him away from my beloved DS9.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1) I thought you were too old for that.

 

2) It wasn't perfect. She had clothes on.

 

 

1a. Too old too do anything with it, not too old to enjoy looking.

 

2a. That probably would have killed me if she did not.

 

 

Great review gul_nodrog, you hit lots and lots of key points. Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0