The Crossing - Bad Science

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I enjoyed the adventure aspect of this episode but the logic and science seemed terribly flawed and I'm only an amatuer scientist. Any thoughts?

 

1. Didn't the fact that the wisps could remove the crew from their bodies imply that humans are dual natured and if the wisps could remove us we should be able to learn to remove ourselves - no evolving necessary.

2. How do wisps travel in subspace yet are not able to survive in space - if they are noncorporeal why do they need a ship? If they can't repair the ship how do they pilot it? And how did they travel through space between ships.

3. How did Phlox resuscitate everyone just be changing the air supply?

4. If they shielding in the Catwalk kept out the wisps - how did Trip get in?

5. Does being converted to energy automatically give the ability to transcend the boundaries of space/time? It didn't in TNG or TOS.

6. If we have a dual nature - ie a consciousness that could be removed shouldnt the means be mechanical - like a power surge rather than mental will as T'Pol implied? How is a forceable takeover a temptation?

7. Remember TOS - where the three surviving "consciousnesses" of a dead race inhabited Kirk/Spock/female doctor. They weren't energy wisps they hung out in orbs (Spock hid out in nurse chapel for a while)

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

1. Didn't the fact that the wisps could remove the crew from their bodies imply that humans are dual natured and if the wisps could remove us we should be able to learn to remove ourselves - no evolving necessary.

Maybe when the "whisps" remove us, it's something they "evolved" to be able to do, like having an out of body experrience? Maybe they "evolved" to leave their bodies at will, and then just abandon them? Perhaps they "can" pilot and fix their ship, but the damage was too extensive?

 

2. How do wisps travel in subspace yet are not able to survive in space - if they are noncorporeal why do they need a ship? If they can't repair the ship how do they pilot it? And how did they travel through space between ships.

Hmm... Got me there!

 

3. How did Phlox resuscitate everyone just be changing the air supply?

YES, BIG FLAW!

 

4. If they shielding in the Catwalk kept out the wisps - how did Trip get in?

Um... Care to clarrify?

 

5. Does being converted to energy automatically give the ability to transcend the boundaries of space/time? It didn't in TNG or TOS.

Yeah, but were THEY sent to subspace? B)

 

6. If we have a dual nature - ie a consciousness that could be removed shouldnt the means be mechanical - like a power surge rather than mental will as T'Pol implied? How is a forceable takeover a temptation?

Maybe the "temptation" is so powerful, that it's like a forecable takeover in that we just "give in" to the temptation?

 

7. Remember TOS - where the three surviving "consciousnesses" of a dead race inhabited Kirk/Spock/female doctor. They weren't energy wisps they hung out in orbs (Spock hid out in nurse chapel for a while)

Can't remember this episode...

[Tank 0]

1. Didn't the fact that the wisps could remove the crew from their bodies imply that humans are dual natured and if the wisps could remove us we should be able to learn to remove ourselves - no evolving necessary.

 

The Wisps did say that they were once like us so there for evolving is implied. Also Q once said that the Q's used to be like Humans and that one day the Human race would evolve to be even more powerful than them. The wisps had evovled to a point at which body and soul no longer ment what it does to us now. And because of this they had the ability to set the Enterprise crews souls free while they took over the body. The Enterprise crew however, who still have yet to evolve, did not possese the knowledge to seperate body and soul so even if Humans are dual natured it wouldn't matter.

 

2. How do wisps travel in subspace yet are not able to survive in space - if they are noncorporeal why do they need a ship? If they can't repair the ship how do they pilot it? And how did they travel through space between ships.

 

You may have a point on this one. I'll give you that.

 

3. How did Phlox resuscitate everyone just be changing the air supply?

 

He's happy-go-lucky alien.. He can therefor do whatever he wants.. Sorry that's the best ansewer I can give ya.

 

4. If they shielding in the Catwalk kept out the wisps - how did Trip get in?

 

The wisps may not have been able to get through the shielding but if they had entered Trip before the hatch had been closed than they would have been able to go through the hatch just like everyone else. It's also possible, though unlikely, that one was able to slip in while the hatch was open.

 

5. Does being converted to energy automatically give the ability to transcend the boundaries of space/time? It didn't in TNG or TOS.

 

When your talking about the "unkown" the science that we know doesn't always apply. Was Q limeted to space/time? I don't think so..

 

6. If we have a dual nature - ie a consciousness that could be removed shouldnt the means be mechanical - like a power surge rather than mental will as T'Pol implied? How is a forceable takeover a temptation?

 

Not necesserly. Remember that they couldn't get to Docter Phlox either. The human mind seems to be a very fragial thing. It is un-organized, un-controled, and very cahotic therefor taping into it would be very easy for a species that had evolved to the point that they were nothing but whisps. The Vulcan mind however is very deciplened, organized and controled. They have telepathic abilities and are well practiced in blocking things out (i.e. emotions), so I think that it is very believeable that their minds would be harder to enter.

7. Remember TOS - where the three surviving "consciousnesses" of a dead race inhabited Kirk/Spock/female doctor. They weren't energy wisps they hung out in orbs (Spock hid out in nurse chapel for a while)

 

I'm afrade I don't see the scientific flaw in this. If it is possible for a race of beings to store a persons consciousnesses in an orb, than I can't see any reason why another race of beings could evolve to the point that their consciousnesses could survive as flying whisps. That makes about as much sense as saying "Just because some apples are green, shouldn't oranges be green too?"

 

In closing I would like to say that I thought The Crossing was a pretty good episode. It wasn't the best episode by any means but it was better than most. I hope to see more like it. There were a few things in it that botherd me, but non of them were listed on your post.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

7. Remember TOS - where the three surviving "consciousnesses" of a dead race inhabited Kirk/Spock/female doctor. They weren't energy wisps they hung out in orbs (Spock hid out in nurse chapel for a while)

Can't remember this episode...

It was called return to tomorrow and guest starred Diana Muldaur (in one of two guest starring roles)

[Theunicornhunter 2]

[The Wisps did say that they were once like us so there for evolving is implied. Also Q once said that the Q's used to be like Humans and that one day the Human race would evolve to be even more powerful than them. The wisps had evovled to a point at which body and soul no longer ment what it does to us now. And because of this they had the ability to set the Enterprise crews souls free while they took over the body. The Enterprise crew however, who still have yet to evolve, did not possese the knowledge to seperate body and soul so even if Humans are dual natured it wouldn't matter.

 

The point is that our consciousness or inner wisp which the episode implied we have was able to survive outside of our body at this time. Many scientists today emphatically denounce near-death experiences, even though the evidence is pretty amazing. If we already possess this ability to survive outside the body - then if we learn to remove ourselves by mechanical or external forces such as stopping the heart (which happens in near death experiences) it is not evolution. My point was that since modern science denies an inner consciousness do the writers realize they're contradicting science.

 

Also, I'm still not buying the evolution concept just because the writers threw in the word. Evolution involves gradual changes to the DNA as naturally occuring mutations become dessiminated throughout the population. For the ability to leave the body to be affected by evolution it would have to be a biological process. On the other hand if everything we are, think, feel, remember etc. is a product of brain chemistry as is argued by many scientists - then we would not be able to exist outside of our body so "evolution" would be counter-productive which is the opposite of what evolution means.

 

 

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5. Does being converted to energy automatically give the ability to transcend the boundaries of space/time? It didn't in TNG or TOS.

 

When your talking about the "unkown" the science that we know doesn't always apply. Was Q limeted to space/time? I don't think so..

 

All previous ST series took great care to use the best scientific knowledge and theory they could. Pure fantasty or speculation is not theory. If we convert (or release stored energy) matter to energy that energy now doesn't transcend space and time.

 

[[

6. If we have a dual nature - ie a consciousness that could be removed shouldnt the means be mechanical - like a power surge rather than mental will as T'Pol implied? How is a forceable takeover a temptation?

 

Not necesserly. Remember that they couldn't get to Docter Phlox either. The human mind seems to be a very fragial thing. It is un-organized, un-controled, and very cahotic therefor taping into it would be very easy for a species that had evolved to the point that they were nothing but whisps. The Vulcan mind however is very deciplened, organized and controled. They have telepathic abilities and are well practiced in blocking things out (i.e. emotions), so I think that it is very believeable that their minds would be harder to enter.

 

I'll buy that they may be better able than some humans to resist temptation because that's how the writers described them. But my point was that if the wisps are using some sort of force or physical ability it has nothing to do with our "mental" control. Dr. Phlox simply wasn't physically compatible. However, given the amazing things that some humans can do as far as controlling their heart rate by controlling their thoughts even today I'm not buying that humans are weak. And those who made it through star fleet training would be more disciplined than the average human.

 

[[

7. Remember TOS - where the three surviving "consciousnesses" of a dead race inhabited Kirk/Spock/female doctor. They weren't energy wisps they hung out in orbs (Spock hid out in nurse chapel for a while)

 

I'm afrade I don't see the scientific flaw in this. If it is possible for a race of beings to store a persons consciousnesses in an orb, than I can't see any reason why another race of beings could evolve to the point that their consciousnesses could survive as flying whisps. That makes about as much sense as saying "Just because some apples are green, shouldn't oranges be green too?"

 

The issue was not the ability of other species - the issue was the ability of humans. In TOS our consciousness had to be stored in a receptacle when removed. In this episode they were able to fly through space and time. Whether or not we could survive outside the body would be a function of our physical capabilities (aliens didn't create a consciousness we already had it)

 

I saw several other flaws as well but I only have so much time. Truth is I enjoyed the episode from its adventure standpoint. That one scene where Trip was standing behind the screen was a creepy/cool shot and I was glad to see Travis more involved.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

2. How do wisps travel in subspace yet are not able to survive in space - if they are noncorporeal why do they need a ship? If they can't repair the ship how do they pilot it? And how did they travel through space between ships.

 

B) I think the answer here lies inside the question itself; "How do wisps travel in subspace yet are not able to survive in space-?" Answer; 'They cannot live in space therefore they need a ship to travel in subspace'. I thought this aspect of the episode was one of it's strong points, the idea of these beings having once been like us and having gone so far in their evolution yet one obstacle still remains for them to overcome added a strong sense of (humanistic) fragility still remaining to them.

 

This idea also addresses the broken ship question, the broken ship would have been the factor which caused them to either overcome, their inability to travel in space or die(?) but that happened anyway .

Imo, this adds up to some of the best sci-fi idealisms yet done on ENT.

 

3. How did Phlox resuscitate everyone just by changing the air supply?

 

I say the story was strong enough that adding a sort of time dilation event which, caused no time to be wasted on explaining the crews resuscitations was fine with me, the events of Phlox flushing out the Co2 and replacing it with O2 and the crew reviving was a given, and time did not need to be wasted on showing us those events imo.

 

ENTERPRISE ROCKS MY STAR TREK WORLD!

[Xeroc 0]

I enjoyed the adventure aspect of this episode but the logic and science seemed terribly flawed and I'm only an amatuer scientist.  Any thoughts?

 

1.  Didn't the fact that the wisps could remove the crew from their bodies imply that humans are dual natured and if the wisps could remove us we should be able to learn to remove ourselves - no evolving necessary.

2.  How do wisps travel in subspace yet are not able to survive in space - if they are noncorporeal why do they need a ship?  If they can't repair the ship how do they pilot it? And how did they travel through space between ships.

3.  How did Phlox resuscitate everyone just be changing the air supply?

4.  If they shielding in the Catwalk kept out the wisps - how did Trip get in?

5.  Does being converted to energy automatically give the ability to transcend the boundaries of space/time?  It didn't in TNG or TOS.

6.  If we have a dual nature - ie a consciousness that could be removed shouldnt the means be mechanical - like a power surge rather than mental will as T'Pol implied?  How is a forceable takeover a temptation?

7.  Remember TOS - where the three surviving "consciousnesses" of a dead race inhabited Kirk/Spock/female doctor.  They weren't energy wisps they hung out in orbs (Spock hid out in nurse chapel for a while)

1. That is not science. It is more spiritual beliefs - I can't give you a scientific criticism here.

2. I think they can survive a short time in space or subspace but need a ship for extended periods of time. Also, they probably pilot it telepathically. I think their ship was probably so damaged it would have been impossible to repair. No doubt than can repair it to a certain extent.

3. It's a 1-hour TV show. 'nuff said.

4. One probably slipped in while the hatch was open. Or came in already inside Trip.

5. What??? No one in this episode transcended space/time!!! If you're talking about their experiences, those were just a sort of Hallucination.

6. Temptation??? I think this is also a spiritual kind of question.

7. Okkaaayyy... What does this have to do with this episode? So energy life forms come in many different forms! So? Physical life forms come in many forms too!