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SeeingEyeBorg

Like Android, Like Vulcan

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I was just watching "In Theory" and recalling how Data had once compared himself to Vulcans. Spock himself had implied that Data represented the Vulcan ideal. So I'm thinking D'Sora could've had a much better relationship with Data as long as she understood that she was dating a highly advanced Vulcan...so to speak.

 

I mean, a Vulcan also would not have showered her with affection, nor probably ever said, "I love you." But Vulcans have been creating and maintaining healthy relationships for thousands of years. See what I'm getting at?

 

For all of you out there, stop and think: if you're willing to date a Vulcan, would you also be willing to date an android with Data's level of programming?

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I don't think that was really her concern. She knew Data was an android and (at the time) did not have emotions. He could shower her with affection - and he did - but she knew he was simply running a software subroutine. No matter how convincing Data tried to make it she knew it would not be genuine.

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I don't think that was really her concern. She knew Data was an android and (at the time) did not have emotions. He could shower her with affection - and he did - but she knew he was simply running a software subroutine. No matter how convincing Data tried to make it she knew it would not be genuine.

Exactly. So what if she had told him, "Honey, give it up. If you need to emulate someone, emulate a Vulcan instead."

 

It would've lasted a lot longer, I think. But I don't think she wanted a Vulcan. She wanted a La Forge or a Wesley Crusher, but in either Riker or Data's body. I can almost understand.

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It seemed like D'Sora didn't know what she wanted. What I gathered was that she was just trying to create the "perfect" boyfriend for her, and almost used Data. However, she saw what she was doing and ended it. Data was just along for the ride, doing the best he could.

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I think the problem I'm trying to point out with this ep is that it paints Data as being un-dateable. We are shown that D'Sora just "doesn't really matter" to Data, and in so doing, the writers imply to that nobody matters to Data, which we know is BS. As Soong would say, Data, in "his own way", was crazy about Geordi, loyal to Tasha (unfortunately), and devoted to his captain. He loved his father, he really loved Lal, and if you pay close attention (though you don't really need to), Lore's mere existence is a serious thorn in Data's side.

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I don't agree that this episode paints Data as being undateable. I believe it shows just the opposite. Data did everything he could to please D'Sora but I think it was a case of D'Sora having unrealistic expectations as to what dating Data would be like that caused the break-up. Yes, Data did seem outwardly unaffected by the break-up however I think we can assume that he did miss her in his own way based on what he had said in another episode about missing the sensory inputs provided by people when they are gone.

 

BTW, I HATE JENNA D'SORA!!!!!!!!

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I think the problem I'm trying to point out with this ep is that it paints Data as being un-dateable. We are shown that D'Sora just "doesn't really matter" to Data, and in so doing, the writers imply to that nobody matters to Data, which we know is BS. As Soong would say, Data, in "his own way", was crazy about Geordi, loyal to Tasha (unfortunately), and devoted to his captain. He loved his father, he really loved Lal, and if you pay close attention (though you don't really need to), Lore's mere existence is a serious thorn in Data's side.

 

Have you ever dated someone you didn't love? Most people have. As long as both parties are fine with that then no one is harmed.

 

True Data probably wished Lore had not been created, but I don't think he had ill feelings toward Lore or even B4. He knew it was necessary to deactivate both (although in B4's case Data probably intended to reactivate him once the mission was over) but that does not mean he resented their existance.

 

Could data love before he had his emotion chip? That depends on how you define love. Paraphrasing Rama Kandra from The Matrix: Revolutions "Love is but a word. What matters is the connection we apply to the word." and I think Data felt (if that is the right word for a being without feelings) connections with many people even if there was no emotion attached.

 

And let's not forget the role Tasha played in Data's life. Tasha was the only being, biological or mechanic, that Data was intimate with - and then she was murdered less than a season later. Can you tell me that didn't affect Data on some level, perhaps making an intimate relationship with D'Sora even more difficult?

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I think that the biggest issue was that she was looking for someone who could love her in the manner that humans are accustomed to. She ended it when she realized that she had gone from being involved with a man that did not show his emotions to one that was incapable of feeling emotion. So basically she realized that she was falling into a pattern that did not make her happy and chose to leave the relationship in order to make a conscience effort to find the type of relationship that would make her happy.

 

To me it is along the same lines as someone who has been in an abusive relationship seeking out another abusive relationship without realizing that they are repeating the same pattern because it is what they have become accustomed to, then realizing what they are doing and making the choice to change their lives for their own happiness and wellbeing.

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I don't agree that this episode paints Data as being undateable. I believe it shows just the opposite. Data did everything he could to please D'Sora but I think it was a case of D'Sora having unrealistic expectations as to what dating Data would be like that caused the break-up. Yes, Data did seem outwardly unaffected by the break-up however I think we can assume that he did miss her in his own way based on what he had said in another episode about missing the sensory inputs provided by people when they are gone.

 

BTW, I HATE JENNA D'SORA!!!!!!!!

 

Amen--so do I. And this brings me to another thing. Data once asked Troi (and I can't remember which ep) about marrying someone. He talked about not being able to "grow old with someone" but how he wanted to be married someday anyway. And in that ep, Troi assured him that he "had a lot to offer a potential mate." But in the episode "In Theory," she suddenly takes all of that back.

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Amen--so do I. And this brings me to another thing. Data once asked Troi (and I can't remember which ep) about marrying someone. He talked about not being able to "grow old with someone" but how he wanted to be married someday anyway. And in that ep, Troi assured him that he "had a lot to offer a potential mate." But in the episode "In Theory," she suddenly takes all of that back.

Unfortunately I can't remember off the top of my head what Troi said to take that back in In Theory. Can you refresh my memory for me (I hate watching that episode so please don't make me do that. LOL) The episode you were referring to that you couldn't remember the name of was Data's Day earlier that same season.

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I think I know where everyone is getting confused.

 

It isn't whether or not Data can form strong attachments to people or genuinely care for their well-being without emotions.

 

It isn't whether D'Sora could have been happy with Data as a casual dating partner even if it didn't lead to a relationship.

 

It isn't even whether D'Sora could have been happier with an android, a Vulcan, or a Klingon. (At least Klingons are passionate.)

 

No, where we are going wrong is really simple for even a casual Star Trek observer -

 

WE ARE ACTUALLY TAKING DEANNA TROI'S PSYCHOBABBLE SERIOUSLY! (There, I said it.)

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Amen--so do I. And this brings me to another thing. Data once asked Troi (and I can't remember which ep) about marrying someone. He talked about not being able to "grow old with someone" but how he wanted to be married someday anyway. And in that ep, Troi assured him that he "had a lot to offer a potential mate." But in the episode "In Theory," she suddenly takes all of that back.

Unfortunately I can't remember off the top of my head what Troi said to take that back in In Theory. Can you refresh my memory for me (I hate watching that episode so please don't make me do that. LOL) The episode you were referring to that you couldn't remember the name of was Data's Day earlier that same season.

 

She says something to the effect of "you lack emotions, so you will hurt her. Don't treat this like an experiment, blah blah blah..." As Van Roy was saying, psychobabble. And Data had no intention of treating D'Sora like an experiment. He "looked forward to the time" they'd spend together, and he liked her musical skills, among other things. He was happy to clean up her disastrous quarters and wait on her hand and foot. Wow...what a pain that would be. :frusty: A man who wants to clean and organize your place, who tells you to put your feet up while he takes care of everything...you don't even have to walk to your replicator to get a drink. I know Data laid it on a bit thick but STILL...I hear a lot of my fellow women wish for a man like that and to think she dumps instead of trying to find a way to make it work.

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She says something to the effect of "you lack emotions, so you will hurt her. Don't treat this like an experiment, blah blah blah..." And Data had no intention of treating D'Sora like an experiment. He "looked forward to the time" they'd spend together, and he liked her musical skills, among other things. He was happy to clean up her disastrous quarters and wait on her hand and foot. Wow...what a pain that would be. :frusty: A man who wants to clean and organize your place, who tells you to put your feet up while he takes care of everything...you don't even have to walk to your replicator to get a drink. I know Data laid it on a bit thick but STILL...I hear a lot of my fellow women wish for a man like that and to think she dumps instead of trying to find a way to make it work.

I have to disagree with you. I was just reading the script for that episode and IMO Deanna didn't say anything to discourage Data from dating D'Sora. She reminded him that the relationship would be different from any other relationship he had attempted in the past. When Data asked her if he should not pursue the relationship Deanna said that was not what she was saying. Here's the scene as it was in the script:

 

TROI: I think you should be careful. This is not some experiment you're running. Jenna is a living, breathing person with needs and feelings that have to be considered.

 

DATA: Then you believe I should not pursue this any further.

 

TROI: No, I didn't say that... I just want you to be aware that this will be unlike any other... more casual relationship that you've attempted.

 

DATA: I have studied a great deal of human literature on the subject of love and romantic liaisons. There are many role models for me to emulate.

 

TROI: Ultimately, Jenna will care for you because of what you are. Not what you imitate out of a book.

 

DATA: My programming may be inadequate to the task.

 

Troi gives him a sympathetic smile.

 

TROI: We're all more than the sum of our parts, Data. You'll have to be more than the sum of your programming.

 

I think Jenna D'Sora was an absolute idiot. I don't think she knew or understood Data. In a way she was using him. He was "rebound guy" and I don't think she was completely over the guy she had broken up with.

Edited by Takara_Soong

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I have to disagree with you. I was just reading the script for that episode and IMO Deanna didn't say anything to discourage Data from dating D'Sora. She reminded him that the relationship would be different from any other relationship he had attempted in the past. When Data asked her if he should not pursue the relationship Deanna said that was not what she was saying.

 

I think Jenna D'Sora was an absolute idiot. I don't think she knew or understood Data. In a way she was using him. He was "rebound guy" and I don't think she was completely over the guy she had broken up with.

Let me put it this way (here's what I was going for): a proper therapist doesn't approach an issue like this with that attitude; it's the equivalent of being "unsupportive." You don't say "be careful" when someone is about to start new relationship; it's just considered bad taste in therapy (then again, this is Troi we're talking about). If you want to issue a warning, you use the Socratic Method and let them reason things out for themselves.

 

And as for the "No, I didn't say that" line, IMO, that's a sign she was thinking it--and Data's preceeding statement shows he'd picked up on that thought. He is, after all, more intelligent than Troi.

 

And yes, D'Sora is a selfish moron. I think she chose to rebound with Data because he had no feelings (which he stated repeatedly from the get-go, and so she couldn't play shocked in the end) and I think she thought if she used him, she could throw him aside--no harm, no foul. I'm surprised (but glad, of course) more women didn't do that to Data.

Edited by SeeingEyeBorg

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