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Spike The Trill

Borg/V'GER?

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Other than in books, its never been mentioned in any canon sense.

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I don't know if this will help but in the novel Probe, the Whale ship of ST:4 fame runs into the Borg after leaving Earth. It's been a long time since I read Probe so I do not have full recollection, (Older Than Dirt Club) but some helpful back-history for the Borgs encounter with V'ger may be present there.

 

I've never read it but I did find another novel which mentions V'ger and so may have (non canonical) info you seek: Ex Machina.

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There are a thousand explanataions, but nothing canon as been said as stated above. Such as in the Star Trek Manga, the Borg were created by scientists to cure a disease that was killing the planet. So, there are a lot of theories, but no one knows

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Mention of Manga is also made at this link but I didn't mention it for remembering the outcry against it when previously mentioned elsewhere.

 

Also check out the novel Vendetta, I never read it but I know it does have something to do with the Borg. It may contain speculation on V'ger.

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The origins of the borg are also disussed in a story in one of th fan stories for strange new worlds. (Its a voyager story)

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The Borg were fascinating, but i would like to learn more about them. Is there a particular episode/s that really delve into their origins? Any help would be much appreciated. Of all the species, i never paid them much attn(shame on me), but i still would like to understand them better. :tribble:

Edited by GhostofMajorHayes

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The Borg were fascinating, but i would like to learn more about them. Is there a particular episode/s that really delve into their origins? Any help would be much appreciated. Of all the species, i never paid them much attn(shame on me), but i still would like to understand them better. :tribble:

 

Seven of Nine made a statement that the BORG have very little information of their origins and the early history of the BORG. Maybe the reson was simple, if the BORG have the information of their origins and the history of their homeworld someone could gain that information from a captured BORG. Use that information with time travel and destroy the BORG homeworld before the BORG homeworld developed warp technology. With the BORG homeworld destroyed in the past, say 20,000 years ago or even a million years ago. It would change the time line.

 

It would be an idea if Starfleet had that information, build a time ship with weapons to destroy the BORG homeworld. It would make a great movie plot, but it would destroy the cannon of Star Trek since the vist meeting in battle with Enterprise NCC-1701-D or Enterprise NC-01.

 

So maybe it was wise to have the BORG have no information of their origins. Shame.

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It would be an idea if Starfleet had that information, build a time ship with weapons to destroy the BORG homeworld. It would make a great movie plot,

 

Sounds like "First Contact" in reverse.... :)

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first contact in reverse . haha that would be awsome

 

and yeah V'Ger IS the Borg.

 

Kirk said it was in the return

 

thats an awsome book btw

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I had never actually made the connection between the bord and V'Ger, of course I have not watched TMP for many years so that is probably why.

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once I saw the borg for the 1st time I assumed that they created vger

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1. Reasons why V'Ger can't be the Borg. :P

1. Most importantly,

there's no canon mentions that there's a connection between V'Ger & Borg.

Books that mentions something, that the TV did not are not canon. Despite who wrote it.

 

2. Spock: " I saw V'Ger's planet, a planet populated by living machines"

The species who repaired V'Ger are not cybernetic either, as V'Ger pointed out, organics are nothing but infestations of the universe and that 100% machines are the true life-forms.

 

- The Borg were never "All Machine" not in the past, present or future.

- Its canon fact that the Borg were all "Organic" before they become Borg. And when they are Borg they are part machine not all machine.

- I say future as well is because, Borg wants organic as well to help find perfection. So we won't expect them to become fully techno anytime in the future.

 

3. V'Ger is about 98,000m long.

- The biggest known Borg vessel is only 3,036m long.

- If Borg can make something like V'Ger, why not make another or sent V'Ger itself to assimilate Earth.

 

4. The Voyager probe is launched at 1996 & returned at 2271 where it will join with 2 humanoid & created a new lifeform.

- The Borg were fully organic beings for several milennia ago.

- They become Borg at least 892 years ago.

- Both predating V'Ger's existence, hence the joining cannot be the creation of a Queen.

 

5. The new being, the Borg Queen?

- The new being looks like an energy lifeform of a sort, the 2 Borg Queens we've seen so far, looks nothing like it.

VQ.jpg

 

6. V'Ger destroys things in its path by zapping it with "something", wether intentional or not.

- Borg only destroys when provoked. Its a waste of resources & time destroying things when they can capture it as a whole.

- Borg had no such weapon, not even during TNG's time. If they did, there's no stopping them.

:lol:

 

2. Episodes with Borg references

Enterprise

"Regeneration"

 

TNG

"Q Who?"

"Best of Both Worlds" x2

"I Borg"

"Descent" x2

 

DS9

"Emissary" - Wolf 359 battle itself

 

Mentioned only

"The Storyteller"

Jake: "My mom was killed during an attack by the Borg."

 

"Second Sight"

Sisko: "Yesterday was the fourth anniversary of the massacre at Wolf 359... the fourth anniversary of Jennifer's death."

 

"Playing God"

Sisko: "My mind keeps going back to the Borg... how I despised their... indifference as they tried to exterminate us. And I have to ask myself... would I be any different if I destroyed another universe to preserve my own?"

 

"The Die is Cast"

Toddman: "Sounds like Wolf Three-Five-Nine all over again."

 

"Way of the Warrior"

Worf: "Chief, do you remember the time we rescued Captain Picard from the Borg?"

 

"Homefront"

Joseph: "I don't blame him. I haven't seen people so nervous since the Borg scare."

 

JARESH-INYO: "You're serious? With the exception of the Borg incident, there hasn't been a State of Emergency declared on Earth in a century."

 

"For the Cause"

Edington: "You know, in some ways you're worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans for assimilation. You're more insidious... you assimilate people and they don't even know it."

 

"Let he who without Sin..."

Fullerton: "Because if I see you as helpless children, then how do you think the Borg see you?"

 

Worf: "I believe the Federation will survive the Dominion, the Borg... and even people like you."

 

"In Purgatory's Shadow"

Sisko: "The Dominion picked a perfect time to invade. The Cardassian fleet is in shambles, the Romulans aren't much better off, and between the Klingon War and the latest Borg attack, Starfleet's spread pretty thin."

 

"One Little Ship"

Worf: "The data collected here could provide Starfleet with the key to creating transwarp corridors through space."

 

Voyager

"Blood Fever"

"Unity"

"Scorpion" x2

"Drone"

"Dark Frontier" x2

"Collective"

"Unimatrix Zero" x2

"End Game"

 

Borg around, but not the center of the story

"Raven"

"Hope & Fear"

"Infinite Regress"

"Child's Play"

"Shattered"

"Q2"

 

Movies

ST:First Contact

 

ST:Nemesis

Janeway: "The Son'a, the Borg, the Romulans. You seem to get all the easy assignments."

Shinzon: "What is it your Borg friends say? Resistence is futile."

 

3. Canon Borg timeline

http://www.geocities.com/auric180/BorgEnco..._Encounter.html

 

Ignore the word "Disc 5" you may see there & don't take the months too seriously, they are non-canon estimation based on the Stardate calculator.

But the years are accurate.

:P

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There is also a theory out there that the Borg are the result of the fusion of V'ger (through the Ilia probe) and Decker. Even ignoring the timing concerns the fusion occurred in Earth orbit with no explanation of how they got to the Delta Quadrant.

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:lol:

 

1. Reasons why V'Ger can't be the Borg. :)

1. Most importantly,

there's no canon mentions that there's a connection between V'Ger & Borg.

Books that mentions something, that the TV did not are not canon. Despite who wrote it.

 

2. Spock: " I saw V'Ger's planet, a planet populated by living machines"

The species who repaired V'Ger are not cybernetic either, as V'Ger pointed out, organics are nothing but infestations of the universe and that 100% machines are the true life-forms.

 

- The Borg were never "All Machine" not in the past, present or future.

- Its canon fact that the Borg were all "Organic" before they become Borg. And when they are Borg they are part machine not all machine.

- I say future as well is because, Borg wants organic as well to help find perfection. So we won't expect them to become fully techno anytime in the future.

 

3. V'Ger is about 98,000m long.

- The biggest known Borg vessel is only 3,036m long.

- If Borg can make something like V'Ger, why not make another or sent V'Ger itself to assimilate Earth.

 

4. The Voyager probe is launched at 1996 & returned at 2271 where it will join with 2 humanoid & created a new lifeform.

- The Borg were fully organic beings for several milennia ago.

- They become Borg at least 892 years ago.

- Both predating V'Ger's existence, hence the joining cannot be the creation of a Queen.

 

5. The new being, the Borg Queen?

- The new being looks like an energy lifeform of a sort, the 2 Borg Queens we've seen so far, looks nothing like it.

VQ.jpg

 

6. V'Ger destroys things in its path by zapping it with "something", wether intentional or not.

- Borg only destroys when provoked. Its a waste of resources & time destroying things when they can capture it as a whole.

- Borg had no such weapon, not even during TNG's time. If they did, there's no stopping them.

:)

 

 

There is also a theory out there that the Borg are the result of the fusion of V'ger (through the Ilia probe) and Decker. Even ignoring the timing concerns the fusion occurred in Earth orbit with no explanation of how they got to the Delta Quadrant.

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If off-topic, my creative take on the Borg's origins is that their racewas, like earth, like the Vulcans, and other flawed organic species, their homeworld was engulfed in endless conflict-until a group of scientists, and experts in a burgeoning nanotechnology banded together, to do what the planet's various factions could not-and created a means by which emotion-as the Vulcans felt-were the linchpin of conflict; eliminate those, and 'voila'...a 'perfected' society.whch they slipped into the different leaders, and thus, they instituted some manner of mass-program of 'innoculation'(sure-against those nasty, pesky emotions we all carry around) and here we go, on a slippery slope....all right, then. The power blocs, thus altered in their minds, and 'harmonious', like their 2.0 populations, begin to think, ''this has given our race peace, and stability. What more can be done with this technology?''....and so it goes, a road that takes them further and further from their original nature, increasingly augmented, to replacement of organs, enhanced abilities....and comes the Edict to bring this 'gift' to all life out beyond their world, where those first ships find, more and more, other 'imperfect' life-forms in need of their 'help'....shudder.....well, that's my take.

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Borg History theory

IMHO, "based on known canon facts"

this is how I see their history.

 

1. The Borg "Species 1" were an organic species of an (unknown original name) living in a system in the Delta Quadrant for millions of years.

 

They were a Xenophobic race, When they achieve space flight, they stay around their own space alone. They are very advance in most technology. Especially nano technology, which is used for various purposes, including research at the microsopic level.

 

But they also have a very narrow view about their biological weakness. Being in their opinion, "Weak, flawed, organic."

Eventually (around at least 1,000 years ago from 2376) they developed a way to improve & recover themselves using technology.

 

Which was used in a global scale during an alien invasion on their planet. The use of the Hive-mind is developed during war to gain an advantage from their invaders. As the invaders are telepaths that gain the advantage by reading the people's minds.

Through analysing the alien's biology they have found a way to link minds together. By doing so, it confuses the aliens, as multiple minds are thinking at once. It was difficult to manuever themselves being new to this way of thinking but it is their only advantage and they won the war in the end.

 

From there they eventually became what we know now as the Borg.

 

2. But they are very unlike the Borg nowadays. They continue to be Xenophobic, any hostile invaders that engaged them, will be destroyed or assimilated. They only colonize worlds (populated or not is unconfirmed) nearby them.

 

Races that don't pose a threat, they will ignore them. like the Vaadwuar. Though they are quite advance, the Borg don't bother with them, as long as they leave each other alone.

at this time "1484, Earth year", the Borg have assimilated only a handful of systems.

 

3. from 1484 - 2145 '661 years'

The Borg have only encountered 262 species.

Species 1 or 0 being their origin.

 

This is the time they found the Omega Particle. They designated it Particle 010.

It represents perfection to them. Which IMHO, started their desire to seek for perfection.

 

starting from that time till now. 2145 - 2376 'only 231 years'

The Borg have encountered 9,763 species. Mostly assimilated, some ignored, few escaped extinction.

 

For only 1/2 the time, they have encountered thousands of species much faster than before. This suggest their new desire to "meet people". Hence no more being xenophobic. They spread across the galaxy, studying each species. Those found ready to join them, they will "invite" them to join their collective.

 

In their point of view, they are doing the galaxy a favour.

They wish to "improve quality of life for every species."

They aren't at war with the galaxy, that is why their space is still small (but bigger than the Federation by 2,000 light-years) in their own quadrant. They don't colonize worlds far away from home as shown in every planet scale assimilation episodes. Where they just come, fight, get the population & leave the planet empty.

 

Earth is an exception. Because it is the furthest planet of all. Practically the opposite side of their own homeworld. Also it is located in an effective location. In the middle of over 150 species. A perfect spot to create a new Uni-Complex. That is why unlike other planets, Earth was colonized when they assimilated the inhabitants, "Species 5618: Humans".

 

That's my point of view on the Borg's history.

Edited by vold

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Those were some intriguing viewpoints. Though I am not a huge Borg afficianado, they have of course garnered a lot of interest, and therefore analysis. It would be cool, to have seen their origins officially set on screen, though.

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Assuming they take the alien invasion idea similar to what I've written.

It'll be nice to see it in the point of view of the invaders.

 

An old database or something of the sort was discovered, a psychic database that allows the user to experience what the logger is experiencing.

someone logging the events of the war, maybe even 1 of the commanders in charge.

A person who disagree on the invasion, but was force to participate by his/her superiors.

 

This invasion is his/her first, it has doubts of the intentions & face ethical & moral problems during the conflict, a conflict that lead to their eventual failure.

Some escape survived the incident, but decades later the victims become the invaders.

 

At first they didn't recognise them, but realising it was the same species whom they invaded in the past & fear that they have awaken some form of beast.

:lol:

 

This way, much detail of the Borg's point of view remain a mystery leaving room for more possibilities.

 

Due to the technology being both alien in design & effects the mind more suitable for the alien, the images are not too clear or easy to understand.

Edited by vold

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Sorry if this has been talked about before, but other than Shatner’s books, have there been any references that Voyager 6/V’GER was found by the Borg?

Watch Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and watch the episode of ENT where the borg are mentioned.

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