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Wishfire

Constitution-class refit

The refitted Connie  

18 members have voted

  1. 1. Same class, or new?

    • It's still a Constitution-class
      13
    • It's no longer a Constitution-class
      5


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All that's the equivalent of giving a modern aircraft carrier new screws, a new radar dish, and a new command center. In the end, it's virtually nothing when compared to what happened to the 1701 between the end of TOS and TMP.

 

But still it took considerably alot of modifications to do this just like the refit 1701-A!

 

Not by a long shot.

 

When I said "those two ships" earlier, I was referring to the Midway and the Forrestal. Try to keep up.

 

And what happened with them still fits in with what I say, and since what I say also says that you're wrong, no, it doesn't back you up.

 

Why don't you stop back tracking and also say what what you mean, not what your thinking... Being I cannot read your mind!!!

 

Maybe you need to use common sense. You brought up two ships that didn't change classifications after their refits. What other two ships could I be talking about?

 

Besides, what does the Midway and the Forrestal have to do with anything? There two different ship, maybe you need to keep up!

 

If they have nothing to do with anything, why bring them up? I would suggest that you try to keep up, except you seem to be going backwards. Have fun with that.

 

Again the Midway was at one time one type of class of which was refitted like the 1701-A to where the USS Midway type of class was not chnaged! <_<

 

Back-tracking won't help you.

Edited by WishfireOmega

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Since when do simulators get names? <_<

 

If you were in the military, one would know that simulators, planes, cars and everything else gets a name!

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And what happened with them still fits in with what I say, and since what I say also says that you're wrong, no, it doesn't back you up.[/color]

 

Really....

 

Again it would seem you still catching up or just trying to make your own rules or something!!! :spock:

 

Do you know what canon is WishfireOmega??? I suggest you look it up, being it pretty much ends your argument!

 

Again pictures you seem to ignore from Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, which are canon!!!

 

article02-pic003.jpg

 

article02-pic004.jpg

 

I rest my case.... <_<

 

So it's canon that the 1701-A was erroneously called a Constitution-class starship. That's nice. Too bad for you we're not talking about the 1701-A...

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There are a lot of ships. I doubt every single ship has it's own simulator. It makes more sense that each ship class gets a simulator or two. And even then it's likely that multiple classes of students will be needing to use the simulators simutaneously, so when you see "(insert name here) class" on a simulator door, it's a reference to the ship class, not a specific ship.

 

You do not know that!

 

Just like in the Air Force there is a simulator for each aircraft.

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Since when do simulators get names? <_<

 

If you were in the military, one would know that simulators, planes, cars and everything else gets a name!

 

Um... sure...

 

There are a lot of ships. I doubt every single ship has it's own simulator. It makes more sense that each ship class gets a simulator or two. And even then it's likely that multiple classes of students will be needing to use the simulators simutaneously, so when you see "(insert name here) class" on a simulator door, it's a reference to the ship class, not a specific ship.

 

You do not know that!

 

Just like in the Air Force there is a simulator for each aircraft.

 

No they don't. They have tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of various types of aircraft. They do not have tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of simulators.

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Usually, when referring to a specific class of students, the proper markings would be "Class of (insert year here)."

 

If they really were trying to train a new class to be the crew of a specific ship, they'd need much larger simulators, since not everyone in that class would be on the bridge, and some of those who are would need to leave the bridge from time to time. Such a simulator could only be used to train students in making command decisions and to train helmsman, connsmen (or whatever they're called), and communications officers, since they're the least likely to need to leave the bridge for any reason.

 

For cadets sure, but the people in the simulator at the time of ST 2 were veterans! Also they would not need a simulator to train the whole crew because they were clearly just training the bridge crew for command decissions. No simulator is perfect, therefore there would not be one to leave the bridge. They would more then likely save that for a real ship on a training mission.

 

 

Back-tracking won't help you.

 

Nope, the only examples so far that have been used is the USS Midway, Albany, a Mustang and a simulator. Unless I missed something, then it would be my fault. But I do not recall a Forrestal.

 

 

 

So it's canon that the 1701-A was erroneously called a Constitution-class starship. That's nice. Too bad for you we're not talking about the 1701-A...

 

LoL, erroneously!!! <_<

 

Well, there is only one 1701-A. To bad you cannot change it, but thats what it is called! :spock:

Edited by robjkay

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No they don't. They have tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of various types of aircraft. They do not have tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of simulators.

 

What are you talking about???

 

Yes there are thousands of aircrafts in the AirForce, but not tens, hundreds or thousands of types of aircrafts... LoL

 

I am not going to count the number of different types of active aircrafts there are in the US Air Force. But its around two dozen or so different types/classes of aircrafts. Not thousands....

 

For each class of aircrafts, there are simulators for that aircraft of which are used to train the pilots. How many simulators there are I do not know, but there are at least a 50 for each craft or less. Why I say that is because you have to consider training areas, airbases in the states & in other countries.

 

 

Um... sure...

 

Yes..

 

The USS Missouri was called the "Mighty Mo". USS Wisconsin as the "THE ULTIMATE WARSHIP". I call my Silverado "Baby".

 

Just shows like I said that simulators, planes, cars even ships can be named something!!! <_<

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Another thing WishfireOmega, it would seem you have things backwards!!! The Constitution-class starships (1701), was also known as Starship class starships. Being that the Constitution class label does not appear in The Original Series; the Enterprise's dedication plaque indicates it is a "Starship Class" vessel.

 

Anyway I suggest YOU re-learn your Star Trek, being you clearly do not know what is going on! :VBGal2:

Edited by robjkay

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Usually, when referring to a specific class of students, the proper markings would be "Class of (insert year here)."

 

If they really were trying to train a new class to be the crew of a specific ship, they'd need much larger simulators, since not everyone in that class would be on the bridge, and some of those who are would need to leave the bridge from time to time. Such a simulator could only be used to train students in making command decisions and to train helmsman, connsmen (or whatever they're called), and communications officers, since they're the least likely to need to leave the bridge for any reason.

 

For cadets sure, but the people in the simulator at the time of ST 2 were veterans! Also they would not need a simulator to train the whole crew because they were clearly just training the bridge crew for command decissions. No simulator is perfect, therefore there would not be one to leave the bridge. They would more then likely save that for a real ship on a training mission.

 

Not everyone. After the simulation ended, Spock stood up and said "Cadets, to the briefing room." I doubt he would say that to the vets.

 

 

Back-tracking won't help you.

 

Nope, the only examples so far that have been used is the USS Midway, Albany, a Mustang and a simulator. Unless I missed something, then it would be my fault. But I do not recall a Forrestal.

 

Maybe you should re-read your own comments. What, are you copying and pasting without paying attention to what is actually said?

 

Though I will admit I made a mistake... the Midway was being compared to the Forrestal, rather than the Forrestal being used as an example.

 

So it's canon that the 1701-A was erroneously called a Constitution-class starship. That's nice. Too bad for you we're not talking about the 1701-A...

 

LoL, erroneously!!! :P

 

Well, there is only one 1701-A. To bad you cannot change it, but thats what it is called! <_<

 

That still doesn't change the fact that we're talking about the 1701, since it's the only ship that we know what it looked like before and after.

 

No they don't. They have tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of various types of aircraft. They do not have tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of simulators.

 

What are you talking about???

 

Yes there are thousands of aircrafts in the AirForce, but not tens, hundreds or thousands of types of aircrafts... LoL

 

I'm talking about the fact that the Air Force has tens or hundreds of thousands of aircraft, and that number is made up of various different types. That should be rather obvious.

 

I am not going to count the number of different types of active aircrafts there are in the US Air Force. But its around two dozen or so different types/classes of aircrafts. Not thousands....

 

For each class of aircrafts, there are simulators for that aircraft of which are used to train the pilots. How many simulators there are I do not know, but there are at least a 50 for each craft or less. Why I say that is because you have to consider training areas, airbases in the states & in other countries.

 

That just backs up my claim that there's not one simulator per individual craft.

 

Um... sure...

 

Yes..

 

The USS Missouri was called the "Mighty Mo". USS Wisconsin as the "THE ULTIMATE WARSHIP". I call my Silverado "Baby".

 

Just shows like I said that simulators, planes, cars even ships can be named something!!! :spock:

 

Nicknames don't count. :o

 

Another thing WishfireOmega, it would seem you have things backwards!!! The Constitution-class starships (1701), was also known as Starship class starships. Being that the Constitution class label does not appear in The Original Series; the Enterprise's dedication plaque indicates it is a "Starship Class" vessel.

 

Anyway I suggest YOU re-learn your Star Trek, being you clearly do not know what is going on! :VBGal2:

 

"Constitution-class" originally came from an on-screen schematic in TOS. Which means that both in TOS and in TUC, the class designation comes after a different designation is already given, which lends even more weight to the idea that the designation is wrong.

 

:spock:

Edited by WishfireOmega

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Not everyone. After the simulation ended, Spock stood up and said "Cadets, to the briefing room." I doubt he would say that to the vets.

 

It was a combination of cadets and veterans of which both were training on the simulator!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe you should re-read your own comments. What, are you copying and pasting without paying attention to what is actually said?

 

Though I will admit I made a mistake... the Midway was being compared to the Forrestal, rather than the Forrestal being used as an example.

 

The Forrestal was never brought up or used in any posting.

 

 

 

 

 

That still doesn't change the fact that we're talking about the 1701, since it's the only ship that we know what it looked like before and after.

 

And what your point? Yes we know that the 1701 before its refit and after its refit that it was still called the Constitution Class.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm talking about the fact that the Air Force has tens or hundreds of thousands of aircraft, and that number is made up of various different types. That should be rather obvious.

 

Again I cannot read your mind, besides I highly doubt the US Air Force has tens or hundreds of thousands of aircraft!

 

Wikipedia says the US Air Force has about 6013 manned aircraft in service!

 

 

 

That just backs up my claim that there's not one simulator per individual craft.

 

Nobody said there was a simulator per individual craft!

 

 

Nicknames don't count. <_<

 

I beg to differ! Again it shows that things are named or can be named!

 

 

 

 

"Constitution-class" originally came from an on-screen schematic in TOS. Which means that both in TOS and in TUC, the class designation comes after a different designation is already given, which lends even more weight to the idea that the designation is wrong.

 

 

I know, because I brought up the on-screen schematic of which was for the 1701!

Also with the blueprint that Scotty had also show the name Constitution Class carried over to the 1701-A.

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It was a combination of cadets and veterans of which both were training on the simulator!

 

The vets weren't being trained. The vets were there to help train the cadets.

 

 

The Forrestal was never brought up or used in any posting.

 

robjkayforrestal.jpg

 

 

And what your point? Yes we know that the 1701 before its refit and after its refit that it was still called the Constitution Class.

 

And Starship class... and Enterprise class...

 

Again I cannot read your mind, besides I highly doubt the US Air Force has tens or hundreds of thousands of aircraft!

 

Since when is "reading comprehension" and "telepathy" the same thing?

 

Wikipedia says the US Air Force has about 6013 manned aircraft in service!

 

Actually, it says 7,500 in active duty. That number does not include reserve craft, experimental craft, and unmanned craft which still get piloted remotely. Or retired craft, for that matter. (Just because a plane is retired doesn't mean the Air Force suddenly loses ownership.)

 

Nobody said there was a simulator per individual craft!

 

At one point I said "I doubt every single ship has it's own simulator." To which you responded "in the Air Force there is a simulator for each aircraft." Saying "each aircraft" means "each and every individual aircraft," not "every type of aircraft."

 

If you meant something different, you should've clarified, because, you know, I can't read your mind. <_<

 

I beg to differ! Again it shows that things are named or can be named!

 

If someone gave you the nick-name "Scooter," would that appear on your driver's license? Or your social security card? No, it wouldn't, because it's not your name, and it's not official. For the same reason, craft and simulators would never get official plates for their unofficial nick-names.

 

I know, because I brought up the on-screen schematic of which was for the 1701!

 

Funny, because earlier you said "Being that the Constitution class label does not appear in The Original Series..."

 

Also with the blueprint that Scotty had also show the name Constitution Class carried over to the 1701-A.

 

Which you still haven't proven to be anything other than an error.

Edited by WishfireOmega

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The vets weren't being trained. The vets were there to help train the cadets.

 

It was never stated in the movie that the vets were only there to help the cadets! From what we saw in the movie it was a combination of vets and cadets training.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Starship class... and Enterprise class...

 

And we all know there is no such thing or no fleet of ships called Enterprise Class!

 

 

 

Since when is "reading comprehension" and "telepathy" the same thing?

 

 

It would seem that your having problems with both! One would think that when a person has 3503 posting. He would know what canon means, being you don't. You must have a "reading comprehension" problem.

 

 

 

Actually, it says 7,500 in active duty. That number does not include reserve craft, experimental craft, and unmanned craft which still get piloted remotely. Or retired craft, for that matter. (Just because a plane is retired doesn't mean the Air Force suddenly loses ownership.)

 

 

US Airforce from Wiki.

 

It says; The USAF is the largest and most technologically advanced air forces in the world, with about 6013 manned aircraft in service (4,282 USAF; 1,321 Air National Guard; and 410 Air Force Reserve).

 

Besides 7,500 is still not tens or hundreds of thousands of aircraft of which you stated before.

 

 

At one point I said "I doubt every single ship has it's own simulator." To which you responded "in the Air Force there is a simulator for each aircraft." Saying "each aircraft" means "each and every individual aircraft," not "every type of aircraft."

 

If you meant something different, you should've clarified, because, you know, I can't read your mind. <_<

 

I said at post #67; For each class of aircrafts, there are simulators for that aircraft of which are used to train the pilots.

 

 

 

 

 

If someone gave you the nick-name "Scooter," would that appear on your driver's license? Or your social security card? No, it wouldn't, because it's not your name, and it's not official. For the same reason, craft and simulators would never get official plates for their unofficial nick-names.

 

We are not talking about people, we are talking about things! Why would we need a social security card for a simulator that a group of people decided to name? Nobody is saying its official, but its done to boost morale, like a group of people training on a simulator!

 

Funny, because earlier you said "Being that the Constitution class label does not appear in The Original Series..."

 

HELLO.... Post #29

 

Again I said; Should the refit Enterprise still be considered a Constitution-class starship?

 

Yes because in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, Scotty is studing a schematic of the Enterprise which says on top of the schematic Constitution Class Satrship!

 

Now in TOS, we know that the 1701 is a Constitution Class because in TOS: The Trouble with Tribbles. Scotty is at a computer screen looking at a phaser diagram which say on it Constitution Class.

 

Anyway it means both the 1701 (Constitution) and the 1701-A (Constitution refit) are both that same ship and is the same class. Also its canon.

 

 

 

Which you still haven't proven to be anything other than an error.

 

Of which so far you have not shown anything thats says it is an error! This is because there is nothing canon that says it is a error.

 

It would seem your the only one who thinks this. To bad!

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It was never stated in the movie that the vets were only there to help the cadets! From what we saw in the movie it was a combination of vets and cadets training.

 

McCoy and Kirk's exchange about McCoy's "performance" indicates that the vets were not being trained. Besides, if they were being trained, why would McCoy be there? He's not a bridge officer.

 

 

And we all know there is no such thing or no fleet of ships called Enterprise Class!

 

No, we don't know any such thing. The fact that there's a simulator for an Enterprise Class starship says that there is.

 

It would seem that your having problems with both! One would think that when a person has 3503 posting. He would know what canon means, being you don't. You must have a "reading comprehension" problem.

 

Funny how you're the only one having difficulty following a conversation with me...

 

US Airforce from Wiki.

 

It says; The USAF is the largest and most technologically advanced air forces in the world, with about 6013 manned aircraft in service (4,282 USAF; 1,321 Air National Guard; and 410 Air Force Reserve).

 

Besides 7,500 is still not tens or hundreds of thousands of aircraft of which you stated before.

 

Well, then, the wiki article disagrees with itself. But that's what happens when anyone can go and change the articles.

 

I said at post #67; For each class of aircrafts, there are simulators for that aircraft of which are used to train the pilots.

 

I'm talking about post #64. But that's just another example of you back-tracking.

 

We are not talking about people, we are talking about things! Why would we need a social security card for a simulator that a group of people decided to name? Nobody is saying its official, but its done to boost morale, like a group of people training on a simulator!

 

Except there's no evidence that that's what was done.

 

Giving a nickname to a simulator to boost morale... :spock::spock:

 

HELLO.... Post #29

 

Again I said; Should the refit Enterprise still be considered a Constitution-class starship?

 

Yes because in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, Scotty is studing a schematic of the Enterprise which says on top of the schematic Constitution Class Satrship!

 

Now in TOS, we know that the 1701 is a Constitution Class because in TOS: The Trouble with Tribbles. Scotty is at a computer screen looking at a phaser diagram which say on it Constitution Class.

 

So then why would you say ""Being that the Constitution class label does not appear in The Original Series?" Backtracking again. You can't keep up with your own arguments, never mind my own. What did Servo do to you? :P

 

Anyway it means both the 1701 (Constitution) and the 1701-A (Constitution refit) are both that same ship and is the same class. Also its canon.

 

No, it means the same mistake was made twice, since a different designation were given first not only in the movies, but also in TOS. Which is also canon.

 

[f which so far you have not shown anything thats says it is an error! This is because there is nothing canon that says it is a error.

 

Other than other class designations having already been given first. <_<

 

It would seem your the only one who thinks this. To bad!

 

1. It's a shame you don't know your numbers.

 

2. Even if the majority thinks something, that doesn't automatically mean they're right.

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McCoy and Kirk's exchange about McCoy's "performance" indicates that the vets were not being trained. Besides, if they were being trained, why would McCoy be there? He's not a bridge officer.

 

Good question, of which I really do not have an answer for. McCoy is like the third main character so he has to be in every place possible. :spock:

 

 

 

 

 

No, we don't know any such thing. The fact that there's a simulator for an Enterprise Class starship says that there is.

 

The only thing we know is that it is a Mark IV simulator tha is named Enterprise Class Starship! Being there was no such class of starship seen and has never been referred to, means there is no such class.

 

 

 

 

Well, then, the wiki article disagrees with itself. But that's what happens when anyone can go and change the articles.

 

 

Well its no big thing!

 

 

 

I'm talking about post #64. But that's just another example of you back-tracking.

 

Fine I made a mistake on post #64, but post #67 supersedes! :spock:

 

 

 

We are not talking about people, we are talking about things! Why would we need a social security card for a simulator that a group of people decided to name? Nobody is saying its official, but its done to boost morale, like a group of people training on a simulator!

 

Except there's no evidence that that's what was done.

 

Giving a nickname to a simulator to boost morale... :P :o

 

Well its extremely possible and it makes sense!

 

 

No, it means the same mistake was made twice, since a different designation were given first not only in the movies, but also in TOS. Which is also canon.

 

Constitution-class refit

 

Here is what Startrek.com has to say about the Constitution refit! I guess thats wrong to, you better call them up and have them correct there mistake! :P

 

 

 

 

Other than other class designations having already been given first. <_<

 

 

Are you referring to the Starship class?

 

 

 

1. It's a shame you don't know your numbers.

 

2. Even if the majority thinks something, that doesn't automatically mean they're right.

 

Well when I listen to or read material that comes from Paramount, when there the one who are stating the the 1701 & 1701-A are indeed the same class of ships. You bet it means its right! :)

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